Sick of the Dating and Game Playing Circus

[SassyKitten]

Hmmmm, it's still beyond me though how dating (aka being inspected like cattle) could possibly be fun.

 

I do get the bit about transforming my baggage. Kind of lost on the how though.

 

As far as things about me go that intimidate men, I can think of a few, though none that should really. There's my brain. My self-sufficiency. My sense of adventure. And the fact that I don't put up with the status quo or with **** from men.

[MrNate]

Hmmmm, it's still beyond me though how dating (aka being inspected like cattle) could possibly be fun.

 

I do get the bit about transforming my baggage. Kind of lost on the how though.

 

As far as things about me go that intimidate men, I can think of a few, though none that should really. There's my brain. My self-sufficiency. My sense of adventure. And the fact that I don't put up with the status quo or with **** from men.

 

 

Pft, is that all?? You don't sound intimidating in the least. A woman who doesn't take crap from any, but knows how to have fun and let her hair down is a turn on.

 

Women who expect the man to be their constant savior is annoying and frankly, a big turnoff. There's definitely a happy medium between reliability and self sustainability.

[SassyKitten]

Pft, is that all?? You don't sound intimidating in the least. A woman who doesn't take crap from any, but knows how to have fun and let her hair down is a turn on.

 

Women who expect the man to be their constant savior is annoying and frankly, a big turnoff. There's definitely a happy medium between reliability and self sustainability.

 

The problem with my last boyfriend was he seemed to think I was expecting him to be my saviour. In reality, all I wanted was for him to have my back as I was going through some major drama halfway through our relationship. Instead he became more distant. And then I became angry. It hurt like hell.

[MrNate]

The problem with my last boyfriend was he seemed to think I was expecting him to be my saviour. In reality, all I wanted was for him to have my back as I was going through some major drama halfway through our relationship. Instead he became more distant. And then I became angry. It hurt like hell.

 

I can see how. Everyone doesn't need a hero. I would imagine a lot of women want a partner, not a savior. The funny thing is, when people like that are needed the most, they pack up and leave.

 

I could imagine that being bothersome for you.

[gamma1]

Hmmmm, it's still beyond me though how dating (aka being inspected like cattle) could possibly be fun.

 

I do get the bit about transforming my baggage. Kind of lost on the how though.

 

As far as things about me go that intimidate men, I can think of a few, though none that should really. There's my brain. My self-sufficiency. My sense of adventure. And the fact that I don't put up with the status quo or with **** from men.

Ok, comparing dating to being inspected by cattle may be some of what's holding you back. Sure, some jerk men objectify women, but no good man does that.

 

If you go on a date and assume you will not have fun beforehand, it will be less likely that you will actually have fun. You find a good guy and if he doesn't think you had fun on the date, he may assume you are not interested in him.

 

You have to do everything you can to put these jerks completely out of your mind. If one strategy doesn't work try something else. They are exes for a reason.

 

Nothing you've stated would intimidate me and I'm someone that can get intimidated more than many men.

 

A good goal for the near future might be simply to have fun on a date.

[zengirl]

Hmmmm, it's still beyond me though how dating (aka being inspected like cattle) could possibly be fun.

 

I find dating totally fun. I'm completely honest about things, so sometimes first dates aren't fun (I realize I'm just not into the guy) but that's why they're short by design, just in case.

 

I guess because I don't go into a date expecting anything except to have fun. I don't worry about being judged; I worry about my own judging. If a guy decides he doesn't like something about me and opts out of seeing me, I'm honestly cool with that at the dating stage. It stings the ego sometimes, but I am not my ego. No big deal. (It hurts a lot more when I'm in a relationship, obviously.)

 

I think you need to, first of all, take the pressure off dating.

 

I do get the bit about transforming my baggage. Kind of lost on the how though.

 

Maybe if you want it badly enough the how will find you. That's what happened to me. I don't know how.

 

As far as things about me go that intimidate men, I can think of a few, though none that should really. There's my brain. My self-sufficiency. My sense of adventure. And the fact that I don't put up with the status quo or with **** from men.

 

Eh, my brain intimidates people (women and men) all the time. I've learned to diffuse it over the years, but it happens.

 

Anyone who is intimidated by you not taking **** or being able to take care of yourself is a jerk. . . but it might be in how you present these things.

 

I've found men like a sense of adventure, even when they don't have one themselves. But that's just my experience.

 

I think a lot of it is how your trust issues are intermingling with these qualities than anything, honestly.

[gamma1]

I can see how. Everyone doesn't need a hero. I would imagine a lot of women want a partner, not a savior. The funny thing is, when people like that are needed the most, they pack up and leave.

 

I could imagine that being bothersome for you.

Good men don't behave that way. They are there when for her when she's going through tough times.

[SassyKitten]

Nate - It is completely exhausting. And such a contradiction too, I keep hearing that men need to be needed, but this was a case of as soon as I actually did need him he turned his back on me. And it still stings.

 

Gamma - It's hard to know how to have fun on a date. I keep getting paranoid that he's going to stuff his hands down my pants and then get defensive because I'm not ready for that yet. And yes, that has happened before.

 

Zengirl - Trust issues, yes, but there's also the fact that I have had more than enough heartbreak to last me 5 lifetimes, and I really cannot afford to have the stress of even 1 more heartbreak in my life. Especially seeing as I have my career to think about.

[MrNate]

Good men don't behave that way. They are there when for her when she's going through tough times.

 

Definitely. And finding one of these surely takes work, male or female.

[EasyHeart]

I find dating to be fun, as well. I think a lot of the unhappiness that comes from dating is people trying to make they other person like them. When I go on a first date, I spend the whole time evaluating her and trying to decide if I want to ask her on a second date. In my younger days, I spent the whole date trying to impress her, often by pretending to be someone that I'm not. I became a lot happier when I realized that most dates don't work out, so I stopped trying to "win" her and just focused on whether we might be a good match. Then dating stopped being tiring and started being fun.

 

People (male and female) who self-identify themselves as intimidating are often hiding some insecurities. And from the perspective of a partner, it gets very tiring. I've dated a number of women who were so busy trying to prove they were better than me in every way that I got bored very quickly. Not because I am afraid of strong, empowered women, but mostly because they were anything but strong and empowered. If a woman is constantly competing to be the man in the relationship, then I, as a man, have no function in the relationship. So why would I want to be there? There's usually a lot of underlying anger, too.

 

It certainly sounds like you need to take some time off from dating. One of the best things I ever did was take a dating break (I was just about your age, too). I realized that I had always had a girlfriend ever since I was about 16, and I'd never really spent time by myself. That's when I realized I didn't need to always have a girlfriend, and it took a lot of the pressure out of dating. If I had a girlfriend, that was fine; if I didn't, that was fine, too, because I enjoyed my own company just fine.

[MrNate]

That's a good point. Though I'm sure some cultures did try to make sure that the two people would be a good match for each other. Love can happen.

 

The men who post on the forums are average men. Have you ever heard of the pick up industry? It exists and is a multimillion dollar industry for the very fact that the average man has extreme difficulty with women. It is something to do with the western culture that makes it very hard for today's man.

 

It's interesting that you've noticed the wear and tear first hand on how dating has affected men. Frankly this whole process has turned me very bitter, caused depression and destroyed my confidence. I'm starting to doubt that I will ever get a girl to like and accept me.

 

That's a fear that no woman has to deal with.

 

I don't know man. I think women definitely have their own fears. I can see how some men think women have it easier in the dating area, but I would have to disagree to a point.

 

How often do men have to worry about being used for sex? I can't really think of a time when I've heard a man getting heartbroken because he was used for his body. Women know men are attracted to them physically, this will always be the case. But this becomes a challenge as she decides to focus on obtaining a relationship, and having the guy look at her as something other than a vagina. I would say the scary part is just because they would never know. Many guys are very good a putting on a charade all the way up to the point they get what they're after.

 

Then, the women with good intentions who often find themselves in these traps, start to increasingly worry at the possibility of it becoming more common, as well as wondering if their body is all they have to offer. I would say the scary part is, due to the want to be in a loving relationship (and being appreciated for their non physical qualities), they have to take that big risk over and over.

 

So yes, they may have easier access to sex. But when they want more than that? I honestly think it's a level playing field, my friend.

[paddington bear]

I don't know man. I think women definitely have their own fears. I can see how some men think women have it easier in the dating area, but I would have to disagree to a point.

 

How often do men have to worry about being used for sex? I can't really think of a time when I've heard a man getting heartbroken because he was used for his body. Women know men are attracted to them physically, this will always be the case. But this becomes a challenge as she decides to focus on obtaining a relationship, and having the guy look at her as something other than a vagina. I would say the scary part is just because they would never know. Many guys are very good a putting on a charade all the way up to the point they get what they're after.

 

Then, the women with good intentions who often find themselves in these traps, start to increasingly worry at the possibility of it becoming more common, as well as wondering if their body is all they have to offer. I would say the scary part is, due to the want to be in a loving relationship (and being appreciated for their non physical qualities), they have to take that big risk over and over.

 

So yes, they may have easier access to sex. But when they want more than that? I honestly think it's a level playing field, my friend.

 

Spot on Mr Nate. That is exactly how it is. Most women could probably walk into a bar or club and have sex that night if they wanted. But can most women walk into a bar or club and meet a member of the opposite sex to have more than just sex with? Nope.

 

Anytime I've had one night stands, it was nothing to do with the guy in question. He just happened to be at the right place at the right time to get no strings attached sex from me, due to where I was mentally at the time.

 

Either I had had my heartbroken and wanted to 'wash that man right out of my hair' and not to be the last person that I'd been intimate with, or sometimes I would literally think 'I haven't had sex in over a year, this is getting ridiculous' and just sleep with someone just to not feel like such a loser.

 

Between these rare times, if I even sniff that the guy is just after one thing, it just puts me right off. I've been on the receiving end of what Mr. Nate said over and over, being strung along until the guy got what he wanted and then dropped. And guys can be so convincing and charming and talking about you like they genuinely do like you. And them bam! Soon as you sleep with them, you don't see them for dust. And that actually really, really hurts. You feel totally betrayed and you feel like an idiot. And of course, this means that you start to mistrust other men who might not behave like that.

 

In any case, having sex with someone that you really like, are attracted to and have a connection with is way more fun and exciting than randomly sleeping with some person you will never see again.

[gamma1]

Gamma - It's hard to know how to have fun on a date. I keep getting paranoid that he's going to stuff his hands down my pants and then get defensive because I'm not ready for that yet. And yes, that has happened before.

You went through a very bad experience and I definietly understand why you might feel scared on a date. Try and get support from friends if you keep thinking about this bad experience. Just remember very few men are that horrible. There are so many good men out there, many who are single and are constantly wishing to find a great woman like you.

 

I do think a few good dates where you have fun would help you a lot. Just make your goal to have one good fun date, even if it takes a few tries to get there.

[0hpenelope]

How often do men have to worry about being used for sex? I can't really think of a time when I've heard a man getting heartbroken because he was used for his body. Women know men are attracted to them physically, this will always be the case. But this becomes a challenge as she decides to focus on obtaining a relationship, and having the guy look at her as something other than a vagina. I would say the scary part is just because they would never know. Many guys are very good a putting on a charade all the way up to the point they get what they're after.

 

Then, the women with good intentions who often find themselves in these traps, start to increasingly worry at the possibility of it becoming more common, as well as wondering if their body is all they have to offer. I would say the scary part is, due to the want to be in a loving relationship (and being appreciated for their non-physical qualities), they have to take that big risk over and over.

 

That's uh... that is my worst fear, yes. More than anything, the four words that don't scare me aren't "I do love you," but "Will you trust me?"

[SassyKitten]

Well, I never self-identified myself as intimidating, but many have done that for me. I don't see how I should be intimidating to men who aren't sexist though.

 

As Nate put it so well, my biggest fear when I go on a date is that all I am going to be to the man is a vagina.

 

I still can't really get into the idea of going out on dates for fun. I guess I'd get a free meal out of it, sure, but I'm still not comfortable. Though where I am going to be staying while I'm on my vacation is a hostel, which is great for relating to people of both genders in a friendly way, plus I got back in touch on Facebook with a male platonic friend from Montreal I met while I was in Sydney several years back.

 

And yeah, one night stand sex is so dissatisfying. I'm becoming more of a snob about sex the older I get!

[Woggle]

Many women these days are into casual sex as well. Also women for the most part do not have to worry about a man all of a sudden changing his mind a few years into a marriage when you all already have kids and she wants to break up the family to gop find herself.

[zengirl]

I still can't really get into the idea of going out on dates for fun. I guess I'd get a free meal out of it, sure, but I'm still not comfortable.

 

I don't mean go out with fellows you don't think you'll like. . . just adjust how you view the date. Also, all dates don't have to be dinner. If I've any steering in a first/second/third date, I always try to get it towards something more fun, like bowling or mini golf. (Tea/coffee first, if it's someone I'm meeting rather "blind" like an online dating situation or somesuch.) But, when you can't steer the situation, steer your mental goals from the evening.

 

When I go on a date, I certainly hope the guy isn't a jerk, but if he is a jerk? Well, then I have a story. And I can laugh at him.

 

The worst is when the guy is really nice and there's just no sizzle; I'm bad about being honest about that. . . and that's sometimes been uncomfortable. But, even then, it's not a huge deal. (I had one of those dates awhile back, set him up with a friend of mine, and now they're married! I thought that was kind of cool. I got to be a facilitator for Cupid. )

 

But, really, just see it as a chance to get to know someone. You like people, right? Don't put any pressure on yourself. Or on him to be the "One" so you can stop looking.

[SassyKitten]

To be completely blunt, another HUGE problem with why dating isn't fun for me is I seem to attract men who want to grope the hell out of me on the first date. And that makes me extremely uncomfortable. I'm someone who gets weirded out when random people try and touch me regardless of the circumstances, let alone in that manner.

 

And I really don't see how nearly as many women as men could find casual sex to be enjoyable. My experience with casual sex, without going into gory details, has been like the man viewed porn as a how-to manual on how to have sex with me. Unless most women actually like having their head shoved on a man's dick and somehow I'm supposed to enjoy that too.

[paddington bear]

Well, the only 2 reasons I can think of concerning why I pick the wrong men is that I am bad at reading peoples' true intentions, and because the more that a guy is an *******, the more likely he is to approach me. Of course there would be exceptions to the latter rule surely, but they seem very few and far between.

 

Plus, when I'm feeling bitter or irritated about anything at all, my strategy is to try and nip it in the bud. Except that nipping this in the bud is mission impossible.

 

Speaking personally, I would have said I picked the wrong guys and they picked me. They would be seemingly be sooo different from each other at the beginning, but in retrospect be the same type. I was totally confused as to why this kept happening to me. Why did I keep getting these guys and friends of mine didn't? Why did all the non-committal a****s want me, but other people got just normal guys who adored them and behaved caringly?

 

Then I figured out that bascially the problem was not the guys. The problem was me. That I was opening up my arms and welcoming the emotional mess-ups (they were 'interesting and intrigueing') and ignoring decent, normal guys (these were boring, because they liked me from the offset without any drama). I didn't want to admit this to myself, that I was the mistress of my own misfortune, and it took a while. But essentially it was true.

 

So, I just decided that I was NOT allowing myself to go for the same type again. Suddenly, the formerly 'interesting' messed up guys became boring to me. I realised that it was anything but boring when a guy just liked me for me without the usual long-drawn out complications of whether he wanted me or not, or had confusion about his ex/sexuality/mental issues.

 

I posted my own 'I'm sick of being single' rant here recently, so obviously this is still a work in progress (my problem is not that I'm going on lots of dud dates, but that I can't meet the guys to get the date in the first place). Anyway, since really assesing myself and my own contribution to the men in my life, and since making changes in my attitude, the type of men I've encountered have been increasingly different from those in the past, nicer, more polite and emotionally solid. But even more interestingly the type of man I'm attracted to has radically changed all because I decided not to keep shooting myself in the foot. I think it's a self-esteem issue. You really have to genuinely believe that you deserve to be treated decently, otherwise you put up with behaviour that one shouldn't.

 

I would say that it's good to even write down similar characteristics of men in your past and what was it about them that attracted you intitailly, were similar types of things said by them? Did many display similar behaviour in relation to you etc. And you might well see a running theme that you didn't notice at all before. When you do this, you identify 'the type' your personal AVOID type. Which means next time you encounter one, you know right from the offset to not even go there and end up saving yourself a lot of heartache.

 

Also, in another post you mentioned dating being like cattle being inspected. I would say that this is in general the more female role while on a date. That men get inspected like cattle, particularly regarding looks and income, assessed for their potential as future father and provider.

 

Are you honestly sure that it is not you doing the inspecting and somehow feeling that because you act like that, that therefore your date is coldly assessing you in the same way and thus you feel uncomfortable, like you don't match up and thus have a miserable date? I just say this because you said you see each potential date as potentially 'the one' and it occurred to me that you might be projecting a little bit.

[SassyKitten]

Paddington - Thinking about this very quickly, and maybe I'll have more insight later, the one thing that made me choose the men I've gone for is they actually paid attention to me. Paid attention to me in the way that I craved when I was a fat kid and boys laughed in my face when I asked to dance. I even went so far as to fake being sick on prom night so I wouldn't have to go through the ridicule of not having a date.

 

I do tend to pick men apart when I date them, and I'm doing this more and more the older I get. I just don't want to be hurt ever again.

[zengirl]

To be completely blunt, another HUGE problem with why dating isn't fun for me is I seem to attract men who want to grope the hell out of me on the first date. And that makes me extremely uncomfortable. I'm someone who gets weirded out when random people try and touch me regardless of the circumstances, let alone in that manner.

 

Yeah, that would weird me out. I've had some bad first dates. . . but a pattern of random guys groping you? That would be un-fun. Is there any way to plan (and dress for) decidedly un-grope-y events? I tend to meet for first dates during the day, if I can. And I rarely drink alcohol on a first date. And I never wear anything remotely "sexy," just cute. (I'm not saying any of those things invite groping; I'm just trying to think of ways to completely turn around your people-picker and weed out these weird, groping, jerky men.)

 

Also, where are you meeting these men? Do you volunteer, SassyKitten. I met a lot of great guys volunteering.

[SassyKitten]

Sticking to daytime sounds good. And I would love to have time to volunteer, but as I'm a student right now I only really have time to do work that I'm paid for.

[paddington bear]

Paddington - Thinking about this very quickly, and maybe I'll have more insight later, the one thing that made me choose the men I've gone for is they actually paid attention to me. Paid attention to me in the way that I craved when I was a fat kid and boys laughed in my face when I asked to dance. I even went so far as to fake being sick on prom night so I wouldn't have to go through the ridicule of not having a date.

 

I do tend to pick men apart when I date them, and I'm doing this more and more the older I get. I just don't want to be hurt ever again.

 

Ok, so (and as Homer Simpson might say:) I'm no psychologist but....you were fat at those vulnerable teen years in your life. Formative years in terms of finding your feet in the dating world. And were rejected. And now are having to figure out stuff that other girls maybe figured out earlier now that you are an adult. You are just a few years delayed that's all.

 

Now you are older and thin, but in your head you are still the fat teen that no one wants, so that when someone, anyone shows they are attracted to you, you lap it up because you were denied it for so long.

 

You attract lacivious gropers because you obviously are attractive and they want to get into your pants (so I mean that is good, you know you are attractive - let's take the positive out of this), but the problem is that you are grateful for any attention. Any attention being the key word here.

 

Try to turn it around. Men want me. They want to have sex with me, this has been made clear time and time again. So I know I am an attractive women. I have proof of it. So I get to choose Who do I want?

 

Stop being grateful!!!! Start realising that as an attractive, desireable woman that you are in a position of power. As an attractive, desireable woman men should be grateful that you have deigned to notice them and therefore wouldn't dare to mess things up with you by slavering all over you and trying to get you to have sex with them within the first 4 minutes of meeting you.

[carhill]

IMO, the only way to avoid being hurt ever again is to live at the South Pole and talk to penguins. Whenever and wherever there is human interaction there is the potential for pain and hurt. It's up to us as individuals how we process and accept that pain and hurt. It is a multiple choice dynamic and we're in charge of the choices.

 

At my age, I look at it this way:

 

I like socializing with other people. I'm curious about the world and the experience of others. I have fun getting to know people. Some aren't compatible and that's OK. It takes nothing away from the enjoyment of the moment. Spend time with who you choose and do things which you find enjoyable. Live life on your own terms. There will inevitably be a very small subset of other people who embrace and value those terms and you theirs. Maybe, within that subset, a romance will grow. Maybe not. Reflect upon why having that romance grow defines one. Why is it so important? Look in the mirror. What is the reflection saying?

 

I've found the above process key to accepting and resolving a lot of internal pain and hurt. Accepting it is the first step. Saying it's OK to hurt. Then, work it.

 

If dating isn't fun, makes one sick or finds one exhausted of 'games', don't do it. Do something else. Different path. You choose

[SassyKitten]

I do feel very far behind most people my age. And it's really hard going through life when most people are coupled up at my age, while I feel like Bridget Jones at the smug marrieds dinner party. It all feels so unattainable for me, and hurts. I want to try and put myself out there again, but I keep thinking what's the point?

 

And socializing does get harder the older I get because of the element of jealousy. I am only human after all, but it does feel like most women can get an adoring partner as easily as I can get a loaf of bread.

 

It would be so nice if I could stop craving a relationship, but then again the deprivation I've experienced my whole life combined with the way the media shoves it in our faces nonstop makes this impossible.

 

Any advice to turn this desire of mine off? It's a hard one, and I've been struggling with it for over half my life.