Sick of the Dating and Game Playing Circus

[Mike B.]

SK... It's hard for me to imagine that the only guys that approach you are jerkwads.

 

I have a strong feeling that you probably pass up excellent men every day so that you can continually go after men who are emotionally unavailable.

 

I've had some insanely bad luck with women... yet in the end I realize that it wasn't really luck at all. I've made some very bad picks.

 

This is usually the case. When someone says that they only seem to date jerks or b******, it usually mean that this is who they usually pick to date. After things blow up then they throw up their hands in despair and ask "what just happened there?"

 

I recall watching a TV show and two guys were discussing there women and how challenging they could be. One told the other "we don't always have the luxury of choosing who we share our bed with." In other words, what we are attracted to is what attracts us.

 

No one will admit it but many people are simply attracted to jerks and b******. It's socially unacceptable and maybe crazy to admit to this but we all know how it goes down.

[SassyKitten]

I hear you, Sass. Dating isn't just frustrating in the fact that it's circus-like, it's frustrating because it's also expensive: not just in monetary value, but also in time! Especially if the relationship doesn't work out. Money can be found and earned, but time? I can't get time back no matter what.

 

Touche! That is exactly one of the things that frustrates me immenely. Men tend to pay for the first date, sure, but women spend money to look good for the first date, not to mention at this stage in my life I could have channeled the time I was spending on relationships into more productive things like schoolwork, and then had more time left over for my friends. Plus I have had the unpleasant experience of being on a date before and getting a look from a man that said "I bought you dinner, you at least owe me sex."

 

The one issue I do have regarding loving myself is this: The more times my heart gets chewed up and spit out the more I worry that there will be none of it left when someone who's actually nice comes along.

 

And, like a house, it doesn't pop out of the ground one day. You have to lay the foundation, put up the walls, etc. Some people were lucky. They had a whole crew when they were young---imagine their early experiences like a "Habitat for Humanity crew," throwing the house up in a few days. Other people had to tear down a rotten, condemned house, chase away bats and snakes, lay down new sod, and start all over. And everything in between.

 

Unfortunately, my childhood was like the latter description. I don't want to go into gory details about it, but I am estranged from both of my parents, I had to for my safety. When I tell men this is tends to scare them off, despite the fact that I am not an emotional wreck from that one. I simply had to raise myself.

 

The reality is that no one needs sex. Unlike food and water, we can live indefinitely without sex and for most of human history, people had sex with one or two partners for their entire life. I know the media is constantly telling us that if we don't bed someone down every night, we aren't "cool", but that's complete and utter BS. Many times, we use sex for unhealthy purposes, and it seems to me that a lot of people use sex to avoid intimacy. Or maybe they use physical intimacy as a (poor) substitute for emotional intimacy, thinking "I'm screwing this person, so we must be in love!" Sex as an expression of intimacy and affection is a wonderful thing, but nowadays that seems really rare. And not "cool". I think a lot of women use sex for an "oxytocin rush". Think about whether your high libido might be a craving for oxytocin and the phony feeling of "love" that it gives you.

 

Absolutely, and I hear so much of the time from people "men need sex". I don't believes men need sex any more than women do, but it is an example of cultural conditioning and the media that mens' sex drives tend to be stimulated whiles womens' tend to be repressed.

 

Above all though, it's the fear. Of having my heart crushed again, and having even less to offer the next man who comes along after that. Plus dating is exhausting, ideally I would like the next man I'm with to be a relationship that lasts forever.

 

That brings up another thing that has been an issue for me, I'm not the type to bail as soon as there's a bump in the road, I recognize that relationships constantly need work no matter what. My last boyfriend was a complete perfectionist who did bail as soon as there was a bump in the road, and he's not the first boyfriend who's been like this either.

 

I'm simply drained. I really would like this dating nightmare to be over.

[zengirl]

Plus I have had the unpleasant experience of being on a date before and getting a look from a man that said "I bought you dinner, you at least owe me sex."

 

You know, if I don't like a guy, I usually insist on paying my share. But I think I'd let this guy pick up the tab. And, if I had a drink to throw at him, his dry cleaning bill (nah, I probably wouldn't really; I honestly am pretty "zen" in person, but I'd think about it ).

 

The one issue I do have regarding loving myself is this: The more times my heart gets chewed up and spit out the more I worry that there will be none of it left when someone who's actually nice comes along.

 

Pretty much exactly what I mean by cultural capital in dating. The truth is your heart is infinitely large and perfect, everybody's is. It's just what you've built or haven't built within yourself. (That sounds cheesy as all get out, but it's just. . . what I think.)

 

Absolutely, and I hear so much of the time from people "men need sex". I don't believes men need sex any more than women do, but it is an example of cultural conditioning and the media that mens' sex drives tend to be stimulated whiles womens' tend to be repressed.

 

Well, there is perhaps a physiological difference. I'm not sure completely, but there are biological indicators. I could believe men perhaps need sexual release more than women do at different ages. (That doesn't require sex.)

 

That brings up another thing that has been an issue for me, I'm not the type to bail as soon as there's a bump in the road, I recognize that relationships constantly need work no matter what. My last boyfriend was a complete perfectionist who did bail as soon as there was a bump in the road, and he's not the first boyfriend who's been like this either.

 

I'll be honest, if there are difficulties early on (within the relationship itself), I've learned not to stick around. It doesn't get much easier. External circumstances are different, perhaps, and then it would depend, but the first hint of fighting or issues between someone. . . especially in the pre-commitment/pre-sex stage, I'm out of there. It takes me awhile, emotionally (various amounts of time, but on average, about a month to six weeks; did only take 2 weeks once, but that was a special case) to get to that place, whether the fellow is or not. So, a lot of guys get weeded out before then because we have conflicts. Sometimes, it's good to bail at the bumps.

 

However, usually by the time I commit (and sleep with, as I do that after) a guy, I generally know him well enough to have decided to really be in it. Then, I'm much more likely to stick through what gets thrown out. But if you commit haphazardly or quickly, like many people do . . . well, I see why this happens. It usually comes from the people who have those funny "levels" of commitment. (I'm not saying go from nothing to married, but people who think, "Well, there's sexual exclusivity, and then later there's emotional commitment" --- they can bail because they were never emotionally invested/committed in the first place.)

[gamma1]

Plus I have had the unpleasant experience of being on a date before and getting a look from a man that said "I bought you dinner, you at least owe me sex."

I hope you got rid of him very very quickly as in never said another word to him. Try and get these jerks out of your mind. They don't deserve you even thinking about them. Easier said than done, I know.

 

Unfortunately, my childhood was like the latter description. I don't want to go into gory details about it, bt I am estranged from both of my parents, I had to for my safety. When I tell men this is tends to scare them off, despite the fact that I am not an emotional wreck from that one. I simply had to raise myself.

You definitely want to plan how and when you mention this. If a woman told me she was estranged from her parents, but didn't go into detail it would make me nervous wondering if she was hiding someting. If she was open about it and told me why, not an issue at all.

 

Above all though, it's the fear. Of having my heart crushed again, and having even less to offer the next man who comes along after that. Plus dating is exhausting, ideally I would like the next man I'm with to be a relationship that lasts forever.

 

That brings up another thing that has been an issue for me, I'm not the type to bail as soon as there's a bump in the road

 

I'm simply drained. I really would like this dating nightmare to be over.

Not bailing after the first argument can be a good thing, but not bailing after you find out he's a jerk would be a bad thing.

 

It really comes down to finding a way of battling this fear and to stop putting stress on yourself that you must find a husband by 30 or whatever age. The ironic thing is if you do these, it's more likely that you will find a good man sooner.

[somedude81]

The grass is always greener.

 

I think SassyKitten's troubles prove a pretty big point since she's (seems to be) a pretty smart, accomplished, attractive gal. It's easy to think, "If I were such-and-such, life would be so much easier," but, really, it's rarely true. Everybody's got their own ups and downs.

I don't even have grass on my side...

 

I've been talking about this issue with my counselor recently. He's trying to get me to accept that women also have issues with dating. I see examples such as SassyKitten's pop up where the woman has trouble finding exactly what she wants. The ratio seems like 1 out of 10 women may have a problem. I'm also a poster on several men's forums where 9 out of 10 men have problems. For whatever reason I do worse than most men. There's no doubt in my mind that if I was a woman and kept my same physical stats and relative attractiveness level, I would have no issue finding anybody.

 

 

I've never waited around to be chased. I suppose I'm a little bit coy (I'm not really aggressive, and I'm actually quite shy, especially when I was younger). Maybe it's because I was in sales and advertising, and I basically learned for a living to "chase without chasing." Is it a fine line? I really don't know, but I don't think it's ever impeded my dating life that I would go up to a fellow or felt comfortable starting conversations/expressing interest/etc. I have, despite the fact that I feel I'm quite assertive, never actually asked a guy out. But I've definitely given the signal that I want him to ask me out. That usually goes over really well; I think guys like knowing there's going to be a "Yes" at the end of their question.

You are exactly right and a good example that there are little things a girl can do to find men. Most men are eager to talk to a woman that's at least cute who seems like she could be interested. During your conversation with him, it's pretty easy to weed him out if he's not up to snuff. Just please don't lead on guys who really don't have a chance.

Absolutely, and I hear so much of the time from people "men need sex". I don't believes men need sex any more than women do, but it is an example of cultural conditioning and the media that mens' sex drives tend to be stimulated whiles womens' tend to be repressed.

Let me point you to this thread. Do men need sex to be happy?

 

The closest consensus was that men need sex more than women. A brief summary is that some women are fine going without sex for a year. For a man that causes depression, low self-esteem and lowers his confidence. Paying for sex doesn't really fill that need. BTW the very fact that men pay for sex in far greater numbers than women, should be proof enough that men need sex.

 

I'm simply drained. I really would like this dating nightmare to be over.

I agree with you here. We're the same age and I think the whole dating thing is BS. I wonder what it was like when matchmaking was being used?

[SassyKitten]

One thing I have never understood is when people say "You're picking the wrong guys". I certainly don't go around consciously thinking "Yeah, I want a man who is going to call me only when it's convenient for him, only thinkis about his orgasm when we're having sex, and preferably has a woman already so he can't commit." I know exactly what I want, and so many men are perfectly able to pretend they're that at first. Maybe I need more help reading mens' true intentions?

 

Also, regarding the issue with my parents, I've been trying to figure out the best way to navigate that one, as untill I know a man for years, I really don't feel comfortable telling him any more than I've posted on this board. But then it is important, especially seeing as family is a conversation topic often brought up in the first few dates. I used to just tell men that my parents were dead, but I stopped doing that as first, I do not like lying about anything at all, and second, who knows, one or both of them may become a decent person in the future and I might actually want to talk to them again.

[SassyKitten]

I agree with you here. We're the same age and I think the whole dating thing is BS. I wonder what it was like when matchmaking was being used?

 

Probably not any better. Untill very recently, marriage was more about economic survival than it was about love, so people took breadcrumbs and tried to fool themselves into thinking they actually loved the person. Which is probably one reason dating is the train wreck it is today, marriage is no longer necessary for economic survival, so we actually have to (gasp!) get to know, love, and appreciate the person we're with.

 

I do wonder though if the men on the forums you post on would be more likely to have problems in the dating department than the average man. Regardless though, it is messy, and I've noticed the wear and tear it has had on men I've dated.

[somedude81]

Probably not any better. Untill very recently, marriage was more about economic survival than it was about love, so people took breadcrumbs and tried to fool themselves into thinking they actually loved the person. Which is probably one reason dating is the train wreck it is today, marriage is no longer necessary for economic survival, so we actually have to (gasp!) get to know, love, and appreciate the person we're with.

That's a good point. Though I'm sure some cultures did try to make sure that the two people would be a good match for each other. Love can happen.

I do wonder though if the men on the forums you post on would be more likely to have problems in the dating department than the average man. Regardless though, it is messy, and I've noticed the wear and tear it has had on men I've dated.

The men who post on the forums are average men. Have you ever heard of the pick up industry? It exists and is a multimillion dollar industry for the very fact that the average man has extreme difficulty with women. It is something to do with the western culture that makes it very hard for today's man.

 

It's interesting that you've noticed the wear and tear first hand on how dating has affected men. Frankly this whole process has turned me very bitter, caused depression and destroyed my confidence. I'm starting to doubt that I will ever get a girl to like and accept me.

 

That's a fear that no woman has to deal with.

[SassyKitten]

It's interesting that you've noticed the wear and tear first hand on how dating has affected men. Frankly this whole process has turned me very bitter, caused depression and destroyed my confidence. I'm starting to doubt that I will ever get a girl to like and accept me.

 

That's a fear that no woman has to deal with.

 

Actually, the whole dating process has turned me very bitter, caused depression, and I have to keep fighting to keep my confidence afloat. And I'm doubting very much that I'll ever be able to get a man to like and accept me for, um, more than just my goodies. So it does go both ways, and you're talking to a woman who's dealing with just that right now!

 

I figure the matchmakers tried to make each person tolerate each other as much as possible. But then this was also from back in the days when it was standard practice for women to make a wedding vow to obey their husband, that and generally people didn't travel far to get married, so the dynamic was extremely different. That, and according to a book I had to read for one of my classes recently, it was only as of the 1960s when it became important for the woman to have an orgasm as well as the man.

 

And extreme difficulty with men is one thing that sells a lot of womens' magazines, though personally I find those to be full of crap.

[zengirl]

There's no doubt in my mind that if I was a woman and kept my same physical stats and relative attractiveness level, I would have no issue finding anybody.

 

1.) It's not just about attractive, but I made that point above.

 

2.) The whole hypothetical "There's no doubt if so-and-so did such-and-such" is pointless. No two people are the same. You being a woman would mean downloading a whole host of experiences which would have shaped you in an entirely different way. You've no idea how you'd fare.

 

The closest consensus was that men need sex more than women. A brief summary is that some women are fine going without sex for a year. For a man that causes depression, low self-esteem and lowers his confidence. Paying for sex doesn't really fill that need. BTW the very fact that men pay for sex in far greater numbers than women, should be proof enough that men need sex.

 

Her point was that the "need" is a perceived one, driven by sociological conditioning. Forum topics aren't going to unhinge that theory. (I actually did say that I thought there might be a biological basis for considering some differences, but that's neither here nor there. I'm just pointing out that highlighting the products of the sociological conditioning doesn't dispel the logic that it exists.)

 

One thing I have never understood is when people say "You're picking the wrong guys". I certainly don't go around consciously thinking "Yeah, I want a man who is going to call me only when it's convenient for him, only thinkis about his orgasm when we're having sex, and preferably has a woman already so he can't commit." I know exactly what I want, and so many men are perfectly able to pretend they're that at first. Maybe I need more help reading mens' true intentions?

 

I don't think anybody thinks you're going in wanting that. It's the whole people-picker theory. This is where you're going to have to reflect (since nobody else knows) on why you picked those men, how they pretended. Not so you can be paranoid and watch for red flags, but so you can "re-tune" your inner people-picker.

 

The men who post on the forums are average men. Have you ever heard of the pick up industry? It exists and is a multimillion dollar industry for the very fact that the average man has extreme difficulty with women. It is something to do with the western culture that makes it very hard for today's man.

 

Eh. . . plenty of those pick-up things are about how to get laid. Not how to form honest connections with women.

[gamma1]

One thing I have never understood is when people say "You're picking the wrong guys". I certainly don't go around consciously thinking "Yeah, I want a man who is going to call me only when it's convenient for him, only thinkis about his orgasm when we're having sex, and preferably has a woman already so he can't commit." I know exactly what I want, and so many men are perfectly able to pretend they're that at first. Maybe I need more help reading mens' true intentions?

 

Also, regarding the issue with my parents, I've been trying to figure out the best way to navigate that one, as untill I know a man for years, I really don't feel comfortable telling him any more than I've posted on this board. But then it is important, especially seeing as family is a conversation topic often brought up in the first few dates. I used to just tell men that my parents were dead, but I stopped doing that as first, I do not like lying about anything at all, and second, who knows, one or both of them may become a decent person in the future and I might actually want to talk to them again.

Yes, you need to work on that becuase for whatever reason you are ending up with the wrong guys. I've noticed among my friends that opposite sex platonic friends are sometimes very good at warning about bad relationship partners.

 

You don't have to tell them in the first few dates about your parents, but years is way too long. A man will ask questions about your family at some point. If it were me and I don't get the full story, I'd think you were hiding something and maybe even wonder, so what else is being hidden. If a man can't handle the truth, he's not your man.

 

Actually, the whole dating process has turned me very bitter, caused depression, and I have to keep fighting to keep my confidence afloat. And I'm doubting very much that I'll ever be able to get a man to like and accept me for, um, more than just my goodies. So it does go both ways, and you're talking to a woman who's dealing with just that right now!

If you are starting to feel bitter, take a step back and take a deep breath and recharge. Do something taht you enjoy for a day just to clear your mind. I've had to deal with a lot of bitterness and depression about dating or should we say lackthereof over the years. Even the most extreme bitterness can be overcome.

Edited July 31, 2010 by gamma1

[SassyKitten]

Well, the only 2 reasons I can think of concerning why I pick the wrong men is that I am bad at reading peoples' true intentions, and because the more that a guy is an *******, the more likely he is to approach me. Of course there would be exceptions to the latter rule surely, but they seem very few and far between.

 

Plus, when I'm feeling bitter or irritated about anything at all, my strategy is to try and nip it in the bud. Except that nipping this in the bud is mission impossible.

[gamma1]

Well, the only 2 reasons I can think of concerning why I pick the wrong men is that I am bad at reading peoples' true intentions, and because the more that a guy is an *******, the more likely he is to approach me. Of course there would be exceptions to the latter rule surely, but they seem very few and far between.

The more you date and are around men in general, the better you will get at reading men.

 

The second reason can be mitigated by not just waiting for men to approch you. That dodsn't mean you have to do the asking out, but it does mean you need to do some work and smile at or even approach the guy across the room. Who cares if you break some "dating rule" if it leads you to finding love.

[Woggle]

Not trying to say this isn't hard for you but maybe you are subconciously picking jerks. I know so many women who date jerk after jerk but put a decent man in front of them and they want nothing to do with him. Men see it so much that we tend to become cynical about women who keep having these bad experiences.

[SassyKitten]

And I'm the type to break rules constantly, which does throw a lot of men off guard! Actually, there's a lot about me as a person that throws people off guard. People look at me and their first impression of me is that I am the stereotypical female, and it does tend to be a huge shock to people that I am working on my accounting degree. Also, I have a much more assertive personality than the stereotypical female, which also throws people off guard. I travelled to Africa by myself when I was 22. I can speak 3 languages(well, my French needs work, so 2 1/2 languages). I am the type to be outspoken and give intelligent answers in class. And peoples' first impression of me is usually that I'm just another dumb cheerleader type.

 

Usually, when I ask an honest opinion from male friends, their answer of how I come across is "Nice, awesome, funny, but intimidating as hell." Not really fair, as if I was a man with my qualities I would be beating off women with sticks!

[Woggle]

A man with those qualities would be beating off women with sticks but people are attracted to different things in the opposite sex. If I displayed the feminine qualities that attract most men I would be sleeping alone most nights so it goes both ways.

 

i think we are living in an age when many men are looking for more traditional women because they are sick of dealing with the drama that sadly many empowered bring. You can call it sexist but after getting burned a few many men just want a submissive woman that caters to them. Dating the opposite just brings too many headaches.

[zengirl]

Well, the only 2 reasons I can think of concerning why I pick the wrong men is that I am bad at reading peoples' true intentions, and because the more that a guy is an *******, the more likely he is to approach me. Of course there would be exceptions to the latter rule surely, but they seem very few and far between.

 

Plus, when I'm feeling bitter or irritated about anything at all, my strategy is to try and nip it in the bud. Except that nipping this in the bud is mission impossible.

 

Let's go with (1) You are bad at reading people for a moment. Get deeper into that. Why are you bad at reading people? What is causing you to mis-read signals? What are some signals you missed that you could see in retrospect?

 

I have a specific question related to that----How are these guys able to know what to pretend to be? You say guys are able to know how to pretend to be what you want, but. . . how does a fellow you met know what you want?

 

As for (2). . . to a certain extent, that's true of all women. Jerks are used to getting rejected, so they're also used to approaching women. I don't think you can attribute as much to that as you think.

 

And I'm the type to break rules constantly, which does throw a lot of men off guard! Actually, there's a lot about me as a person that throws people off guard. People look at me and their first impression of me is that I am the stereotypical female, and it does tend to be a huge shock to people that I am working on my accounting degree.

 

What is the stereotypical female? You've been in Georgia too long, or at least in the Georgia frame of mind too long. . . Honestly, as often as it comes up in your posts, I feel like this obsession with "not being" this type (stereotypical female, cheerleader type, whatever you call it) is getting in your way. You are who you are. Why always talk about what you're not? Plenty of assertive women find great relationships. I really don't think this is a grave hindrance to you, so long as you're not domineering about it.

[SassyKitten]

i think we are living in an age when many men are looking for more traditional women because they are sick of dealing with the drama that sadly many empowered bring. You can call it sexist but after getting burned a few many men just want a submissive woman that caters to them. Dating the opposite just brings too many headaches.

 

I have honestly wondered if a lot of the dynamic when it comes to dating is a post-feminist backlash. And I am the type to cater to a man, but only if it goes both ways. Which is another way I've grown resentful, I've had too many relationships where it's only felt like me catering to them with nothing in return.

 

If I'm making a 6-figure salary like I probably will within 10 years of finishing my degree, and the man in my life is also making better than minimum wage, you'd think he would be grateful. It would mean we could both retire earlier!

[MrNate]

And I'm the type to break rules constantly, which does throw a lot of men off guard! Actually, there's a lot about me as a person that throws people off guard. People look at me and their first impression of me is that I am the stereotypical female, and it does tend to be a huge shock to people that I am working on my accounting degree. Also, I have a much more assertive personality than the stereotypical female, which also throws people off guard. I travelled to Africa by myself when I was 22. I can speak 3 languages(well, my French needs work, so 2 1/2 languages). I am the type to be outspoken and give intelligent answers in class. And peoples' first impression of me is usually that I'm just another dumb cheerleader type.

 

Usually, when I ask an honest opinion from male friends, their answer of how I come across is "Nice, awesome, funny, but intimidating as hell." Not really fair, as if I was a man with my qualities I would be beating off women with sticks!

 

This is funny. More evidence that women don't place a priority on looks as much as men think they do.

 

But it definitely sucks that it's usually jerks that just go for it when it comes to approaching. I think if more nice guys embraced that same mentality, then dating may in fact become a little easier for everyone.

[Disillusioned]

I've been very much in reflective mode since my last breakup. And I had a mentality that in hindsight probably completely killed my last relationship.

 

*snip*

 

I don't know what to ask, I really needed to vent.

 

Sounds to me like all you need to do is stop and figure out what kind of man you really want. Then figure out how to meet him.

[Woggle]

It is a post feminist backlash but because men don't want equality. We do but many pull all types of crap on a man and then hide behind feminism or say that men are simply getting a taste of their own medicine.

 

Also many of these strong women still want a man to be a man. They allowed to go outside of their gender roles but god forbid we do and she no longer has any attraction for us.

[SassyKitten]

Let's go with (1) You are bad at reading people for a moment. Get deeper into that. Why are you bad at reading people? What is causing you to mis-read signals? What are some signals you missed that you could see in retrospect?

 

I have a specific question related to that----How are these guys able to know what to pretend to be? You say guys are able to know how to pretend to be what you want, but. . . how does a fellow you met know what you want?

 

As for (2). . . to a certain extent, that's true of all women. Jerks are used to getting rejected, so they're also used to approaching women. I don't think you can attribute as much to that as you think.

 

 

 

What is the stereotypical female? You've been in Georgia too long, or at least in the Georgia frame of mind too long. . . Honestly, as often as it comes up in your posts, I feel like this obsession with "not being" this type (stereotypical female, cheerleader type, whatever you call it) is getting in your way. You are who you are. Why always talk about what you're not? Plenty of assertive women find great relationships. I really don't think this is a grave hindrance to you, so long as you're not domineering about it.

 

The #1 reason I can think of right off the bat that I am bad at reading people is because I find dating so emotionally exhausting that I do go into every new relationship hoping he's the one.

 

And pretending what to be is pretty good common sense; give the woman lots of attention. But then unfortunately they often take me for granted too often and too soon.

 

If I do ever come off as domineering, it's because I sense the man is trying to do the same to me so I'm counteracting that. I will never be the type to just shut up and look good, but then I get the impression that's what so many men want.

[SassyKitten]

Nate - Agreed, if it was more encouraged for nice men and nice women to be more confident, it would make things so much easier for everyone. And one of the nice things about society being the way it is today is that it's much easier for men and women to relate to each other as friends than it was 50 years ago. We've needed that for so long.

 

Disillusioned - Well, I am stuck in an area where my options for dating are limited, I still had this problem when I was living in other areas, but it's right now after my most recent breakup that I feel like I've reached my breaking point. In a week, I'll be flying to Montreal for a week, where I'm sure I will meet more men who are like the kind I would want to date in a week than I would in Georgia in a year. Then I'm more than likely moving to New York in January long enough to save money to go overseas, then working holiday visa in Ireland for a year and my Master's somewhere in Europe after that. Point is, I'm about to be in some areas where I'm much, much, much more likely to meet the kind of man I want to be with than I would in Georgia, but I'm also scared. My dating experience so far has been traumatic, and I don't want to take this excess baggage with me.

 

Woggle - I've never understood this whole "Be a man" mentality either. I personally like it when a man is in touch with his emotions, it makes him more capable of love. But then there's a lot of women who, even subconsciously, still like to be sheltered and protected.

[gamma1]

Usually, when I ask an honest opinion from male friends, their answer of how I come across is "Nice, awesome, funny, but intimidating as hell." Not really fair, as if I was a man with my qualities I would be beating off women with sticks!

The intimidating part is not going to scare away the jerks, but it may scare away others. Maybe try and figure out how tone down the intimidating part when looking for dates. Your goal is to find a good guy while keeping the jerks out, but coming off as intimidating can inadvertently cause the opposite to happen.

 

Everything else you list is well, awesome.

 

Point is, I'm about to be in some areas where I'm much, much, much more likely to meet the kind of man I want to be with than I would in Georgia, but I'm also scared. My dating experience so far has been traumatic, and I don't want to take this excess baggage with me.

You might be surprised how many men are just as scared as you are. Just remember dating is tough on the other side too and before you know it, you won't be scared.

Edited July 31, 2010 by gamma1

[zengirl]

My dating experience so far has been traumatic, and I don't want to take this excess baggage with me.

 

I'm going to go to my go-to quote-master Haruki Murakami on this one:

 

"No matter what they wish for, no matter how far they go, people can never be anything but themselves. That's all."

 

Your baggage is you. You can't unload it; you can only change it. How do you do that? Well, not being you, I've no idea.

 

The #1 reason I can think of right off the bat that I am bad at reading people is because I find dating so emotionally exhausting that I do go into every new relationship hoping he's the one.

 

Okay. Good! We've identified a problem. And it's an easy one to solve. Make dating fun. Really, it's not a chore. Change this belief that dating is emotionally exhausting. . . it's your own limiting belief. Only you can change it.

 

And pretending what to be is pretty good common sense; give the woman lots of attention. But then unfortunately they often take me for granted too often and too soon.

 

That's all you need in a guy? Lots of attention? Well, yes, that's very easy. I was in a very interesting relationship at a time in my life when I was what I call quite "broken." He was pretty broken too (nice guy, though), but he taught me 2 really good things about myself: (1) I craved attention, which attracted broken men like him (now luckily he was a good man underneath, but they aren't all) (2) I was really mean to myself.

 

I suspect these things could also be said about you. (I don't really know you, so you're the one who'd know.)

 

I wasn't attention-seeking in the attention-whore way, but I definitely required a lot of attention in a relationship. More than necessary, strictly. And a sort of focused, purposeful attention. In my case, it didn't attract the same fellows as you; mine attracted more the guys who seek a Clementine, who want to put their whole sense of self and meaning on some poor, unsuspecting fracked up girl (me at the time) who really can't even deal with her own stuff. But it had similar limitations. Healthy people knew better. I don't kinow if that makes any sense.

 

If I do ever come off as domineering, it's because I sense the man is trying to do the same to me so I'm counteracting that. I will never be the type to just shut up and look good, but then I get the impression that's what so many men want.

 

Why counteract it? If a man is trying to control me, I don't fight back. That's like lashing about in quick sand.

 

I just distance myself (quick sand analogy breaks down, but you get the point). If a man is actively trying to control you, this will dismay him, and you'll see him flailing about. If he wasn't, you see the truth.

 

Of course, if he was, he's probably not right for you. There's no use in fighting about whether or not something is right for you. No amount of fighting can fit a square peg into a round hole. We know that everywhere except when we're in the middle of a relationship. (This is not to say relationships aren't work, or even awful, even the good ones, but they are never that hard in the short times you're talking about. Not if they're right.)

 

Don't worry about what people want. Everything and everyone has their place and purpose. Just don't try to fit one thing to another purpose because that makes just about everyone want to tear their own nerves out.