I can't even touch her anymore

[What_Next]

guthe I urge you to read through my thread, well skim it. My wife did very similiar things to what yours is doing. In fact this sort of thing is VERY common it seems.

 

Use the 180, well the parts that suit you anyway. As much as I hate to say it, be careful but keep your eyes WIDE open for signs of a EA. Has her behavior changed re: her phone, email, computer etc? Honestly I'd snoop when I could.

 

In my case I believe that if I had of left things as they were she might still be content to have me sleeping in the basement and have us functioning as "room mates". I still remember when she started saying that, at the time I was furious, but I realized that she was under what almost seemed like a spell. Around here it is often called a "fog". If there is no EA/PA it might even be a friend in her ear. It was in my case.

 

I did give her space, I did try and be supportive to a certain extent, but I did tell her straight out, I was NOT a room mate, I was not going to continue sleeping seperately etc. We either worked on the marriage or I was out, period. Taking this sort of action is always a risk, but your spouse must realize you are not a bank machine. If she wants out, then she leaves.

 

I am sorry you are going through this and about the only thing I can say is that it won't get easy any time soon.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Why are you torturing yourself, divorce the bitch.

 

Let's look at the facts she's seperated but living in house, living in seperate bedrooms, already is engaging with EA's with an OM, but is gaslighting the hell out of everyone and basically covering it up because she doesnt want the truth to come out!

 

dude save yourself the heartache, start seperating the funds, liquidate the assets, have the house appraised and hire the best damn divorce attourney you can find!!!

 

Because it aint gonna get better, it's gonna get a whole lot worse. save yourself the pain, if you can legally get her cheating, lying azz out the house, then do so, if you cant 180 her azz to death and move on.

 

Why put yourself through pain?

[You Go Girl]

Don't do the 180. Do the opposite. Kiss her every night when you come home from work, even just a peck.

Sit by her on the couch.

Engage her in conversation.

Don't let her divorce you emotionally without divorcing you for real.

If she can't handle a peck on the cheek, a conversation, sitting by her on the couch, eating dinner together, talking about your future plans, etc., then SHE will have to be the one to put an end to it.

So why make it easier for her to detach herself from you? It's the wrong answer. Make it difficult for her to detach emotionally.

If she sees these simple behaviors as being pushy, if she complains, or runs from your kiss, then she has the explaining to do, not you, and it is SHE that is going to have to come clean and force the issue of separation or divorce, or...she will decide she doesn't want to lose you afterall, and a change in her own behavior is needed.

Then there's plan B if everything else fails...

which is dressing nicer than usual, wearing cologne, keeping your hair neat, keeping fit if you need to do a lot of work there, going out with co=workers after work, etc. None of these things are husband crimes. But they sure might remind her that you are someone that other women just might want.....and she stands the chance of losing you if she continues with her current behavior!

[guthe]

I guess I have to decide between the advice from maybebaby and yougogirl as these seem to be two different ways of approachinng the emotionally distant spouse.

[hopesndreams]

Odds are real high that if she's 'worked up the courage' to tell you she's done...and she's hanging out with male friends...she's probably already cheating.

 

This is the pattern it normally follows.

 

RightIf she's refusing counseling...it's because she doesn't want to address the issues. She knows that if she went, she'd have to "fess up" about her own behaviors and issues...which she doesn't want to do. now, she can blame you.

 

I'd take this a step further than the "180". If she wants to act single...let her see what single life is like. Tell her that if she wants to be single...time to move out. She's welcome to leave. Remove her from the credit cards and bank accounts, and let her foot her own bills and find her own place to stay.

 

Let her truly experience life on her own, without ANY of the comforts of marriage.

 

Please follow this sound advice. It could be the catalyst for her to change.

[hopesndreams]

I guess I have to decide between the advice from maybebaby and yougogirl as these seem to be two different ways of approachinng the emotionally distant spouse.

 

The best way is through tough love.

 

Anything else, and you just look like a wuss. No respect equals no love.

 

Be strong, be firm, be resolute. No more prancing around. Got it?

 

What is she thinking? How is she feeling? Is she cheating? Is she just not getting her emotional needs met.

 

Should you kiss her? Should you ignore her? Should you take her out to dinner or should you go out for the night on your own with a buddy?

 

All these ifs, thats or whatevers will destroy you, in time.

 

Is she in, or is she out? That's all you need to know.

[guthe]

The kids make it harder to be harsh with her. I don't want to destroy her, nor do I want the kids to see me as the bad guy. She is doing most of the caretaking. We would have to sell the house in this bad economy as she could not afford it on her own. The kids would lose their home. I guess I'm willing to put up with a lot for their sake.

[hopesndreams]

Just be careful with what message you're sending to the children.

 

You are their father, their protector. They look to you for guidance. You are an example.

 

What are you teaching them right now?

 

Children want their parents to be happy. If you're miserable and hurting, it rubs off on them.

 

You only want the best for their future as any parent would. What is happening in the here and now will definitely have an impact on them for years to come.

[You Go Girl]

Must agree that wayward wives beat up "wussy" nice guy husbands.

But then again, they will totally revolt if a nice guy H suddenly becomes a "tough guy" H. So, looking her straight in the eye and saying, I don't want you hanging out with baseball guys or whomever they are...isn't going to work. She'll walk just to prove she can.

 

That's why I suggest the "in control" calm, cool, and collective H.

He takes care of his looks. He doesn't look nervous about her recent behavior. He is upbeat. He is confident. He doesn't think he's a good catch--he KNOWS HE IS. He's rational, calm, thoughtful, and in control of his own destiny.

[cjdj2010]

Thanks YGG. I am in a similar situation with my wife and your post reinforces what I feel like I should do. We have moments of greatness and periods of nothingness but I remember the passion that we used to have. I was a lot more cocky and she apparently liked it. Time and fighting to keep my marriage together has taken it's toll I guess.

[What_Next]

You've received some sage advice from the female perspective and I suggest you listen to it. There is little doubt in my mind that they are correct.

 

There is a time to be passive, most definitely, however by in large it seems that given the set of circumstances you are in (and in which I was in) that the strong silent approach does prove effective. Well maybe not silent, but strong certainly does. Hopesndreams is very correct specifically, you first NEED to know is she is or is she out. My wife dodged this, and dodged this and dodged it some more. One specific night after our third; and last MC session I had enough and demanded an answer.

 

Keep us posted.

[You Go Girl]

"know whether she is in or out" This seems to be a theme.

I didn't know he wanted to push the marriage to be over. That's what you do when your W has baseball friends. You shove her to make a decision, of which, I can assure you, will not be in your favor.

Just look at her in a really ugly agressive manner when you ask her.

 

If a W is fence sitting, you will certainly push her over the edge. That's it, call her bluff, shove her off that fence and over to the other side.

Carry on.

[maybebaby]

I want to clarify that I'm not saying that yogogirl isn't possibly correct. I can't really know without knowing you and your wife. I would agree with some other posters though that you can't just make her comfortable and leave her life unchanged. You will need to distance yourself, possibly start dividing money, at least begin looking at apartments or suggest that is something she should do. Be there for the kids, don't be cruel to her, but avoid enabling her indecisiveness. Pull away a bit and if you want to be available to be taken back than do so but if you find that you don't feel that way that's ok too. You need to be available to a certain degree but you also need to let her know, through your actions, that she could and will loose you unless she takes steps to stop that. Don't be a simple, patient, lap dog of a roommate. Don't watch the kids on Friday nights so she can go out, offer to swap Fridays or let her find a sitter because you already made plans. You can be sensitive without letting her walk all over you.

 

You should really think about what you want but also think about what's really good for you. Does taking steps to win her make you both happy and also put you in a good place mentally? Has your relationship up until these problems started been good, open, and something that makes both of your lives better? Do you want to hang on because you really do love her and you want to make it work or is it just because you don't want to let go and have to start again? A broken heart is crushing and painful for a time but saving a relationship that isn't healthy for you is painful and crushing at a lower level for a much longer time.

 

I want to clarify I know spriggig didn't like something I said before about pulling away and wanting to be followed. I am not saying that I did the right thing but I don't think that I was lying either. I wasn't finding reasons to stay and I really wanted more than anything for him to ask me to stay, I wanted to be given a reason because all of the reasons we had in the beginning were falling away. I was so young and desperate. When I would go to him and tell him I was feeling lonely he would get angry with me and say that to be lonely you have to be alone and then stop talking to me. I wasn't being emotionally manipulative I was just a desperate young woman who wanted more than anything to be wanted and needed by a man who was, at least at that time, incapable of understanding why marriage needed to be more than a contract to live together, make babies, and share a bank account. It was a bad situation and while that doesn't excuse my bad behaviors I do think that it helps to have the context for the situation.

[guthe]

We'll, she texted me last PM while I was leaving work to say she wanted to have dinner with one of her baseball friends. I said no, asked why she would go out to dinner with him and not me, and that it hurt me. I told her this was an emotional affair and that she was in a fog if she didn't see it. She screamed at me, saying how unhappy she's been for years and how it's all my fault because of how poorly I've treated her. She then said she's not interested in doing anything to save the marriage. I told her I'm seeing a therapist and that she should talk to somebody too. She absolutely refuses. I'm concerned that this may be a mental condition, so, if I leave her, now my kids will be almost exclusively cared for by somebody with a mental condition.

[Chrome Barracuda]

Time for divorce dude, dont put up with her bullcrap. You cant control her but you can set boundries, give her a choice. I mean your right to stand up for yourself. The kids will understand if you dont want to stay with a cheating ho.

 

She knows she's doing wrong that's why she's reacting that way.

 

...STAND YOUR F-ING GROUND.

[HopelessinDTW]

We'll, she texted me last PM while I was leaving work to say she wanted to have dinner with one of her baseball friends. I said no, asked why she would go out to dinner with him and not me, and that it hurt me. I told her this was an emotional affair and that she was in a fog if she didn't see it. She screamed at me, saying how unhappy she's been for years and how it's all my fault because of how poorly I've treated her. She then said she's not interested in doing anything to save the marriage. I told her I'm seeing a therapist and that she should talk to somebody too. She absolutely refuses. I'm concerned that this may be a mental condition, so, if I leave her, now my kids will be almost exclusively cared for by somebody with a mental condition.

Guthe: This is EXACTLY what I heard from my stbx. And I'll bet you had no idea she was feeling this way. I'm also going to bet that she's going to say that the affair has nothing to do with her not wanting to get back with you. All this is BS, and justifications to make her feel not so guilty about the affair. But we all know this is the typical response. does she have a mental condition...likely. My stbx is a compulsive lier, she also has some OCD, and perhaps a borderline personality disorder. bottom line is...she's not your problem. You do need to watch what your kids are saying or feeling about her when they are with her alone. If things start getting out of hand, you need to note these things...and perhaps you can get custody of the kids? Unfortunately, you really can't do anything until she does something questionable.

 

If she truly has no wish to get back with you, and isn't even willing to see a therapist after all this...then you need to get lawyer right away. You need to do this now for yourself and the kids. you need to think two steps forward in all this in order to protect yourself from getting burned. You need to consider her a completely different person than you married, and do not trust a word she says. Keep on posting here and good luck.

[hopesndreams]

We'll, she texted me last PM while I was leaving work to say she wanted to have dinner with one of her baseball friends. I said no, asked why she would go out to dinner with him and not me, and that it hurt me. I told her this was an emotional affair and that she was in a fog if she didn't see it. She screamed at me, saying how unhappy she's been for years and how it's all my fault because of how poorly I've treated her. She then said she's not interested in doing anything to save the marriage. I told her I'm seeing a therapist and that she should talk to somebody too. She absolutely refuses. I'm concerned that this may be a mental condition, so, if I leave her, now my kids will be almost exclusively cared for by somebody with a mental condition.

 

She is very, very angry. She is lashing out. Why? Because you want to take her fun away.

 

Don't point out her fog or that she is having an EA anymore. To her, she is feeling alive! She will only dismiss what you say because she isn't ready to face facts. Why isn't she ready? Because she is suffering no consequences. When will she be ready? When she realizes what she could be losing.

 

File for D. It's time for her to be hit with the 2x4 of reality.

[GorillaTheater]

When you are willing to settle for scraps, scraps are what you'll get.

 

You will not change her mind or her heart. She believes in what she believes.

 

Why do you want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you? Aren't you worth more than that? Is your esteem really that low?

 

Ask her when she plans to move out because it won't work for her live at home with you anymore. Yes, she moves out, preferably within the next few weeks - maybe she can stay with the OM until she finds an apartment to rent. She chose to have an affair, she now has to deal with the reality of that situation, moving out, getting a place of her own. If you had the affair instead of her, you would have moved out. Be firm about this, you won't waver on this. If she has an affair and doesn't move out, tell her you will pack her things, put them in boxes, leave them in the driveway/garage and change the locks afterwards, if she calls your bluff, do these things and show her you're not bluffing. She will now be dealing with the responsibility of her finances, sharing responsibility of the kids, etc. She can file for divorce at anytime and you'll both sit down and tell the kids that you guys are separating.

 

Maybe when the dust settles from all of this "hoopla", you guys might even become friends.

 

Start working out, start shopping for new clothes/shoes, fresh look, fresh style and then start dating.

 

Then when the lustre of that affair wears off and it's no longer as exciting as she thought it was coupled with the fact that you will start dating other women soon, then we'll see if she doesn't come back asking to work on the marriage.

 

And you will be the one saying "hmmmm, I don't know, I'll think about it."

[You Go Girl]

We'll, she texted me last PM while I was leaving work to say she wanted to have dinner with one of her baseball friends. I said no, asked why she would go out to dinner with him and not me, and that it hurt me. I told her this was an emotional affair and that she was in a fog if she didn't see it. She screamed at me, saying how unhappy she's been for years and how it's all my fault because of how poorly I've treated her. She then said she's not interested in doing anything to save the marriage. I told her I'm seeing a therapist and that she should talk to somebody too. She absolutely refuses. I'm concerned that this may be a mental condition, so, if I leave her, now my kids will be almost exclusively cared for by somebody with a mental condition.

 

This is what I was trying to help you avoid. Now she's gone ahead and said the D word. Saying it once will give her confidence to say it again, and possibly start doing things about it.

Maybe it was too late by the time you started posting to reel her back in.

 

So now you have a new choice to make, and neither is one you want. Either you let her go out with them, put up with it for awhile, and see if they no longer amuse her so, or you push her to stop the behavior, at which point she will probably bring up divorce again, and distance herself further.

I know how these situations have turned out time and time again in here though. The wayward spouse doesn't become disenchanted with the new amusement. Instead they think they can blatantly have a mid-life crisis right in front of you, with zero reprocussions.

Your choice here...try to talk to her again, nicely, kindly, quietly. Then you either put up with it, or push, in which case--she will go for the divorce.

She knows she holds the reins. The only thing you can do otherwise, last resort, is to get really nasty. Cut off funds, hire P.I. for pictures, talk to her family, joint friends, etc. But if your W knows that she'll get custody and will be set financially, you're screwed.

[guthe]

The D word was uttered a couple of months ago when she said she wanted to take the kids on vacation with this guy. WTF? She said she didn't love me even before that. Her family and our friends have already seen how she interacts with her other "friend" and they thought it was inappropriate. I've told her this, but she discounts their input.

[wrencn]

We'll, she texted me last PM while I was leaving work to say she wanted to have dinner with one of her baseball friends. I said no, asked why she would go out to dinner with him and not me, and that it hurt me. I told her this was an emotional affair and that she was in a fog if she didn't see it. She screamed at me, saying how unhappy she's been for years and how it's all my fault because of how poorly I've treated her. She then said she's not interested in doing anything to save the marriage. I told her I'm seeing a therapist and that she should talk to somebody too. She absolutely refuses. I'm concerned that this may be a mental condition, so, if I leave her, now my kids will be almost exclusively cared for by somebody with a mental condition.

 

My husband pulled this bullcrap too!!! I make so miserable, our problems have nothing to do with the EA (although he says its not an affair), I turned him into an *******, I deserve however he treats me, blah blah blah. Let the other dude have her sorry ass. My husband wouldn't see a therapist either.

[guthe]

It's not her, it's the kids I'm really worried about. I'll put up with this if we can eventually keep the family together. Thinking about their home falling apart really hurts me.

[You Go Girl]

The D word was uttered a couple of months ago when she said she wanted to take the kids on vacation with this guy. WTF? She said she didn't love me even before that. Her family and our friends have already seen how she interacts with her other "friend" and they thought it was inappropriate. I've told her this, but she discounts their input.

 

On vacation with another guy and your kids?

I think your W has been having an affair, physical too, for quite awhile.

She's too far gone more than likely. The time to stop this was months ago, months before she even suggested such a vacation.

 

It's ok to hope for survival of your marriage, to care about your kids, but tell me that you aren't financially supporting her romance.

[seibert253]

There's only one thing that knocks a WW off the fence, and brings her out of the fog; REALITY.

 

She's living in her la la world, and you are allowing it. YOU ARE ENABLING her. The first step you just took is good. Establishing boundries. No this is not acceptable. That was good.

Now you need to stand your ground and create consequenses for her actions.

Doing A, B, and C are not acceptable. You cannot force her to do anything, however you can establish consequences if she does do A, B, or C. The quickest way to kill an A is exposure. Tell anyone and everyone. If she continues with her A, then make it crystal clear that you will tell everyone what she's involved in, and you will D her.

 

Do you think it's healthy for you kids growing up in a home where dad is a doormat and mom gets to do whatever she wants? That's what your kids will learn. They will not learn to be selfconfindent and strong willed. They need to see a strong dad who will fight for his family, but will not lay down and let someone walk all over him.

 

For you and your family, you need to do this. Put your foot down and tell your W what she's doing is no longer acceptable and you will no longer tolarate it.

 

Peace good luck and keep us updated.

 

Be strong, you can do this.

[Corporate]

What kind of person is this man who keeps going to dinner and games with someone's wife? Do you know him? How about you invite him out alone for a drink and maybe more?