guthe Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 My wife says she doesn't love me any more. She had years of resentment finally released after I called her a b***h for complaining so much. Turns out, she has been unhappy for a long time, despite my meeting her material needs and being with the kids as much as I could. Her mother and brother died about 6 years ago and she refused conseling then. She is refusing marriage counseling now. She is willing to spend time with "friends" (male) at baseball games, but not go out to dinner with me. All she does is cry when I want to talk about these difficult issues. I'm seeing a therapist myself. I want to reconcile, but she is not interested. I'm willing to wait, but not forever.
tojaz Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 Ouch! Sad but all too familiar story. Not a lot of info in your post, but i will say that meeting material needs will never be enough. If you can, expand on your thread and I'm sure we all will do what we can to help. If your not ready to open up (understandable) read the threads of some of the others here, there are many similar stories to learn from. Welcome to LS and keep posting TOJAZ
Rifareal Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 Don't give up on her maybe she's just upset and things piled up. If you really love her try things that would make her feel special. I hope you work things out.
spriggig Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 If you're still living together and she isn't cheating yet you can probably get some positive results from 180 (below). IF IF IF she says something very much like, if not verbatim, "I love you but I'm not IN love with you", if she starts doing nice, random things that make you think WTF? Those combined with the already established "hanging out with male friends"--be very suspicious of cheating. Go over your bank statements and phone records carefully with this in mind. It sounds like you really need to start planning for the worst while hoping for the best. Yeah, very common story unfortunately. Remember, when you argue with someone, their defense wall goes straight up and all they can think about is how they must be right, instead of how they might be wrong. From Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list, here it is: 1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore. 2. No frequent phone calls. 3. Do not point out good points in marriage. 4. Do not follow her around the house. 5. Do not encourage talk about the future. 6. Do not ask for help from family members. 7. Do not ask for reassurances. 8. Do not buy gifts. 9. Do not schedule dates together. 10. Do not spy on spouse. 11. Do not say "I Love You". 12. Act as if you are moving on with your life. 13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive. 14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc. 15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words. 16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING. 17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse. 18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing (should she leave). 19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around. 20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while). 21. Never lose your cool. 22. Don't be overly enthusiastic. 23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger). 24. Be patient 25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. 26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out. 27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). 28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. 29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write. 30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy. 31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse. 32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared. 33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel. 34. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
HopelessinDTW Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 My wife says she doesn't love me any more. She had years of resentment finally released after I called her a b***h for complaining so much. Turns out, she has been unhappy for a long time, despite my meeting her material needs and being with the kids as much as I could. Her mother and brother died about 6 years ago and she refused conseling then. She is refusing marriage counseling now. She is willing to spend time with "friends" (male) at baseball games, but not go out to dinner with me. All she does is cry when I want to talk about these difficult issues. I'm seeing a therapist myself. I want to reconcile, but she is not interested. I'm willing to wait, but not forever. Guthe: Do you think she's having an affair with any of the male friends. The reason I ask is because family trauma, plus the stress of being in a marriage could have driven her to find someone else to "get away from all her pains". My wife also told be "Idon't love you", and that she's been unhappy with me for years. I dug deeper and founf she was having an affair. As Sprigg said, prepare yourself for the worst because that's a real possibility now. Do the 180, and hopefully she will get into marriage counceling with you. Best of luck, please post here with updates...we are all here to help
You Go Girl Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 Your wife feels a gaping whole that she isn't sure how to fill. She isn't even sure what that gaping whole means, and doesn't know why it is there. It is spiritual. You may have something to do with what is lacking, or you may play no part in what is lacking. She isn't even sure of the answers, hence the tears. I can tell you one thing that may hurt, and I'm sorry if it does. I remember my first divorce. My husband was an excellent provider, a good family man, a stable and reliable person. But he was quiet to the point of not expressing passion ever. I hope that you can express your passions when you feel them. You might be the subtle type, and that is a thoughtful often wise person. But your wife doesn't see it because you may be too reserved for her understanding, and quite possibly because she is seeing more expression of emotion from these men she hangs with at ball games or wherever. Your stable emotions may in this case be working against you in your relationship with her. That doesn't mean you should try to become someone you are not. To thine own self be true. But she may be killing the marriage for starvation of emotion. You let us know--that's a guess at best. For some--life comes down to emotions. Without emotional gratification, why bother? Everything else is the rewards of emotional gratification, and the finest piece of art in the world is nothing without appreciation of it in an emotional sense--not a sense of expert skill--do you understand? You may love the precision of one of the old masters. She may love the passion of Van Gogh.
tojaz Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 Your wife feels a gaping whole that she isn't sure how to fill. She isn't even sure what that gaping whole means, and doesn't know why it is there. It is spiritual. You may have something to do with what is lacking, or you may play no part in what is lacking. She isn't even sure of the answers, hence the tears. I can tell you one thing that may hurt, and I'm sorry if it does. I remember my first divorce. My husband was an excellent provider, a good family man, a stable and reliable person. But he was quiet to the point of not expressing passion ever. I hope that you can express your passions when you feel them. You might be the subtle type, and that is a thoughtful often wise person. But your wife doesn't see it because you may be too reserved for her understanding, and quite possibly because she is seeing more expression of emotion from these men she hangs with at ball games or wherever. Your stable emotions may in this case be working against you in your relationship with her. That doesn't mean you should try to become someone you are not. To thine own self be true. But she may be killing the marriage for starvation of emotion. You let us know--that's a guess at best. For some--life comes down to emotions. Without emotional gratification, why bother? Everything else is the rewards of emotional gratification, and the finest piece of art in the world is nothing without appreciation of it in an emotional sense--not a sense of expert skill--do you understand? You may love the precision of one of the old masters. She may love the passion of Van Gogh. Beautiful post YGG, truly hit home for me and a lot of the things I have een thinking about lately but have been unable to put into words. Nice to see you back. TOJAZ
You Go Girl Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 Beautiful post YGG, truly hit home for me and a lot of the things I have een thinking about lately but have been unable to put into words. Nice to see you back. TOJAZ Temporarily out of hiding. Thanks for the compliment!
habs53 Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 My wife says she doesn't love me any more. She had years of resentment finally released after I called her a b***h for complaining so much. Turns out, she has been unhappy for a long time, despite my meeting her material needs and being with the kids as much as I could. Her mother and brother died about 6 years ago and she refused conseling then. She is refusing marriage counseling now. She is willing to spend time with "friends" (male) at baseball games, but not go out to dinner with me. All she does is cry when I want to talk about these difficult issues. I'm seeing a therapist myself. I want to reconcile, but she is not interested. I'm willing to wait, but not forever. This is my wife part 2 almost. You cannot help her. She probably doesnt love anything right now, herself included. This is a bad situation your in, im not going to lie. I would let her go, you cannot help someone that cant help themselves.
Owl Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 Odds are real high that if she's 'worked up the courage' to tell you she's done...and she's hanging out with male friends...she's probably already cheating. This is the pattern it normally follows. If she's refusing counseling...it's because she doesn't want to address the issues. She knows that if she went, she'd have to "fess up" about her own behaviors and issues...which she doesn't want to do. Right now, she can blame you. I'd take this a step further than the "180". If she wants to act single...let her see what single life is like. Tell her that if she wants to be single...time to move out. She's welcome to leave. Remove her from the credit cards and bank accounts, and let her foot her own bills and find her own place to stay. Let her truly experience life on her own, without ANY of the comforts of marriage.
cavedweller Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 guthe, Wake up... She is having an affair..........
habs53 Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 guthe, Wake up... She is having an affair.......... I bet you she is not. She may be thinking about it however. She is totally lost right now.
Author guthe Posted August 1, 2010 Author Posted August 1, 2010 I suspect emotional affair(s). She lights up so when talking about the games she's attended with her "friends" and when she receives texts about games from them. Most disturbing is she told one of them how unhappy she was before she told me, although she claims she has been trying to tell me for some time. My concern is that she doesn't see anything wrong with these relationships. Fortunately, she cancelled dinner with one of these friends ON HER BIRTHDAY (while the kids and I were supposed to have sandwiches at home) on my insistence. Instead of yelling at her, I told her how deeply she hurt me. She responded, but was still upset with me and didn't see a problem. I'm willing to look past this and move forward. I don't understand why she won't let it go. She's doesn't think the changes I've made (at least she noticed something) are sustainable. I told her I'm going to therapy for me, not for her, so that I could be a better person. At least we are living in the same house, although sleeping in different rooms. We can eat together as a family, but not the two of us as a couple. Her parents also slept in different rooms, so I hope she is not modeling after her dysfunctional family.
spriggig Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 Fortunately, she canceled dinner with one of these friends ON HER BIRTHDAY And, there he is, or did she tell you it was a "she"? Yeah, I'm cynical, it really could be a woman. If it does turn out to be a man, though, he's the one.
Author guthe Posted August 1, 2010 Author Posted August 1, 2010 So do I give her an ultimatum? I'm afraid that might bring them closer together, and I'm really not ready to give up yet. She needs to realize what she is doing is wrong , otherwise she won't really come back to the marriage. That relationship is easy for her, our marriage is work, and she does not want to work right now.
Corporate Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 (edited) Fortunately, she cancelled dinner with one of these friends ON HER BIRTHDAY (while the kids and I were supposed to have sandwiches at home) on my insistence. Instead of yelling at her, I told her how deeply she hurt me. She responded, but was still upset with me and didn't see a problem. She haveing DINNER on her birthday with one of her "friends" and not her husband and kids? WTF!!! You can bet that she was going to having dinner with her F-buddy and then go to a hotel before coming home to you. You can't touch her enymore, because her territory (body) has been claimed by another man. She reserve that for him only. If you hire a private investigator to follow her on one of her dinner outings with her "friend" you will find her going to his place for an hour and two and then come out. Edited August 1, 2010 by Corporate
Author guthe Posted August 3, 2010 Author Posted August 3, 2010 I asked her about the relationship, and she said they were just friends. I asked her if she was in love with him, she said no. I believe her. Her friends think she is just bored and not happy with herself, and that she blame me rather than blaming herself.
spriggig Posted August 3, 2010 Posted August 3, 2010 She could be having an Emotional Affair (EA) as opposed to a Physical Affair (PA). Meaning she hasn't had sex with him (yet), but she has given her heart to him--and probably taken it from you. EA's can be just as destructive as PA's, if not more so. See, even women can have sex without love--in fact when they do, it means even less to them than it does to a man--but once she gives her heart to someone else, that's pretty much the end of the marriage. Because, in order for her to give her heart to someone else, she has to tear down the entire marriage first--she must do that in order to contemplate something so horrible as cheating.
Author guthe Posted August 4, 2010 Author Posted August 4, 2010 My therapist told me not to talk to her about our relationship for now, since she just cries when she remembers all the insults/injuries from the past 14 years. We're just housemates for now.
karnak Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 See, even women can have sex without love--in fact when they do, it means even less to them than it does to a man--but once she gives her heart to someone else, that's pretty much the end of the marriage. No wonder prostitution is almost exclusively a women job.
Author guthe Posted August 6, 2010 Author Posted August 6, 2010 Today the issue of money came up, which happens when the credit card statment comes. I told her this issue is probably a big reason she feels that I treat her "like s**t". I do get upset when the new charges are more than 1/3 of my take home pay. I'm a saver, she's not. I would like to bridge this values gap (with marriage counseling?) but she again refuses to talk to anybody about our problems.
maybebaby Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 I can't tell you what exactly to do but I can tell you, from some experience what she is probably feeling and maybe that can help guide you to what needs to be done. I agree that she's feeling an empty place inside, something is missing. She is hurting and she is trying very hard to find something to make her feel whole and make her feel better. I think she's probably in a dangerous position as far as these male friends go. She may have been trying to tell you for a long time that she was unhappy but she didn't know how. She may feel like the problems that were in your relationship were obvious and for you to not see them meant you weren't paying attention. That might not be fair but that doesn't mean she can't feel it. I recall in my first marriage when things got rough I would go and sleep on the couch, all I wanted was for him to notice and miss me and come to get me or to talk about what was wrong. That never happened and even though I hadn't told him that was what I wanted I remember feeling heart broken that he didn't realize when I walked away I wanted him to follow and give me a reason to stay and be close to him. My advice would be to remain kind, gentle, and loving but to be very careful not to act needy or desperate. If you seem too desperate then she will likely feel smothered and that won't help at all. Pull away, give her space, do things for yourself and by yourself, do your best to be happy and act as though you don't expect or need to end up with her. But even while you do that don't be mean or hurtful. Just pull away and act in a way that makes her wonder what is going on and keeps her curious about you and your life. Taking care of her physical needs and being a good parent isn't enough and I don't think that very many people in the history have found much success with that formula. If you do get her attention and you two find ways to communicate and begin to try again you need to remember that. You can never stop being actively loving to her as an individual person not just as your wife and the mother of your children. You need to see her, see through her, into her, and listen to her. You need to connect to her and share with her, you need to be her friend. I'm sorry I don't have anything very deep or wise to share but I hope that you are able to find your way through this and one way or another find your happiness.
Author guthe Posted August 6, 2010 Author Posted August 6, 2010 Thank you for your kind words of advice, which sound like them come from experience. I am trying not to be confrontational when it comes to money, but she needs to realize there are limitations to what I feel comfortable spending. Also, she is hinting about going to more baseball games with her "friend". I am going to have a hard time letting her do that, but I will try to empasize how much she hurts me when she does this.
spriggig Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 That might not be fair but that doesn't mean she can't feel it. I recall in my first marriage when things got rough I would go and sleep on the couch, all I wanted was for him to notice and miss me and come to get me or to talk about what was wrong. That never happened and even though I hadn't told him that was what I wanted I remember feeling heart broken that he didn't realize when I walked away I wanted him to follow and give me a reason to stay and be close to him. Why do so many women do this? Guys are supposed to trust actions, but women who do this (above) are in essence lying by their actions. When you move away from me it means you want to be away from me. When I chase you it means I'm needy and clingy. The right response is supposed to be to let you go and give you space. But, here, when women do this, the response is expected to be to chase them? Guys CANNOT win when women lie by their actions and communicate so poorly with words. Don't do this, please.
Author guthe Posted August 10, 2010 Author Posted August 10, 2010 In response to maybebaby, I'm giving my wife space. I don't kiss her goodbye when I go to work or goodnight when we retire to our now respective bedrooms. I worry that she will get used to this dysfunctional arrangement and won't see a need to change. She is being cared for, in fact, she has a medical procedure scheduled for later this month for which I am taking the day off to be with her. All the bills are getting paid and I help out with the kids when able. Why should she change anything? She doesn't seem to need physical affection right now.
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