I'm so pissed. Older guy at work won't leave me alone

[threebyfate]

Inwardly I felt a sense of revulsion that I couldn't explain (more so than with other guys who've approached me that I wasn't interested in), but now I'm thinking I was picking up on something off about his approach.

I've also felt this way about certain men, even if they've projected themselves as picture perfect with everything. Can't always quantify it beyond sensing that something was off.

[florence of suburbia]

I agree with Spookie. The behavior is akin to an American guy cat-calling across a street. (I admit there are times I've smiled and gladly accepted the ego boost. Other times I've been offended, it depends on the mood / situation.) At any rate, some of the Latino guys I've worked with would flirt from the same spirit as whistling across the street. It's a form of appreciation of female beauty and it seemed to make them feel alive and manly. This guy was probably encouraged by Shadow's obvious discomfort and confusion. It fed his sense of control. Maybe he found it endearing and it stoked him somehow. And I agree with those who have said she now needs to be extremely direct in telling him to get lost.

 

At the pizza place where I worked in college with many Brazilians I laughed off so many remarks which although ocassionally forward were never gross or sexual. At the same restaurant I had a white shift manager ask me if I would give him a bj. I reported him to the manager asap. I wouldn't call this a double standard, but a recognition of cultural differences and nuances.

[bananarama1]

u know what i wish i could hate him but as i read on it just seems kinda sweet..

[Green]

Telling him you don't date married guys will just make him think you like him and that is the only issue. This means he will keep trying.

 

Just say "My parents introduced me to a nice guy and we are dating" "then tell him to stop bothering you"

[zengirl]

I agree with Spookie. The behavior is akin to an American guy cat-calling across a street. (I admit there are times I've smiled and gladly accepted the ego boost. Other times I've been offended, it depends on the mood / situation.)

 

I find that behavior (cat-calling) pretty disgusting and annoying. I didn't know there were folks that actually enjoyed it! (It gives me no ego boost to hear a man indicate in any way that he wants to sleep with me---unless I know said man and we're dating or something---or that he views me as an object.)

[shadowplay]

I find that behavior (cat-calling) pretty disgusting and annoying. I didn't know there were folks that actually enjoyed it! (It gives me no ego boost to hear a man indicate in any way that he wants to sleep with me---unless I know said man and we're dating or something---or that he views me as an object.)

 

Yeah, it always makes me really uncomfortable, especially when other people are around and it happens.

[florence of suburbia]

I find that behavior (cat-calling) pretty disgusting and annoying. I didn't know there were folks that actually enjoyed it! (It gives me no ego boost to hear a man indicate in any way that he wants to sleep with me---unless I know said man and we're dating or something---or that he views me as an object.)

Yeah, sometimes it is disgusting. It's rude and sexist, and if I had a son I would teach him never to do it. But there are times I've felt flattered. It depends on how it's done and what mood I'm in. There can be something hot about it.

[shadowplay]

Yeah, sometimes it is disgusting. It's rude and sexist, and if I had a son I would teach him never to do it. But there are times I've felt flattered. It depends on how it's done and what mood I'm in. There can be something hot about it.

 

Ha, I've never felt flattered by a bunch of rednecks driving by in their pickup truck and hollering at me simply because they can tell in a blur I'm a thin woman between the ages of 18 and 30.

[florence of suburbia]

Ha, I've never felt flattered by a bunch of rednecks driving by in their pickup truck and hollering at me simply because they can tell in a blur I'm a thin woman between the ages of 18 and 30.

No, not like that. Don't know if I can explain it. I guess you had to be there.

[shadowplay]

OK, I'm relaly starting to hate this job. The guy must have gotten my message, because he cooled off today (thank god). But there's another cook there who is bothering me in terms of just being nasty. He's probably about 23, but is married and has three kids.

 

Today when I arrived he said something to me in Spanish, and I told him I didn't understand. He said in a mocking voice "comprehendo or no comprehendo," and I responded "no comprehendo." Then he sneered at me, and said "good, good for me you don't understand." WTF? What could he possibly saying since I've never done anything. Later I asked him what he was saying, and he played dumb in a really obvious, mocking way.

 

Also, I've tried to be friendly to him, but he just keeps making fun of me. Like when I greet him in the morning, he'll say "good morning" in this mocking voice. Also, today, he mocked my attempts to be friendly to the other cooks in my very limited Spanish. I heard him saying in a joke voice "como estas. bien. y tu?"

 

WTF is his deal. He's nice to all the other girls who work there, but it's like he has it in for me.

 

I've often encountered this bizarre hostility from random dudes, especially ones I've worked with...and I've never been able to understand it. I've always been really curious what the triggers are since I'm on my best behavior and not acting hostile myself in any way. Any other women have this experience?

Edited August 1, 2010 by shadowplay

[Kamille]

Who cares? You don't have to get along with this guy. You two only have to manage to work together.

 

There's no triggers, you're not going to like everybody. This guy is a douche, you don't like him. You don't have to like him. You are free to hate his guts. You can still do your work and, more importantly, love yourself.

 

Similarly, not everyone is going to like you. It won't stop you from leading and loving your life.

 

Leave this guy to his antics and focus on the good things you have going on in your life, your new roommate, your new friends, your creative ideas, your improved capacity at saying no to self-destructive thought patterns.

[shadowplay]

Who cares? You don't have to get along with this guy. You two only have to manage to work together.

 

There's no triggers, you're not going to like everybody. This guy is a douche, you don't like him. You don't have to like him. You are free to hate his guts. You can still do your work and, more importantly, love yourself.

 

Similarly, not everyone is going to like you. It won't stop you from leading and loving your life.

 

Leave this guy to his antics and focus on the good things you have going on in your life, your new roommate, your new friends, your creative ideas, your improved capacity at saying no to self-destructive thought patterns.

 

Thanks, Kamille, for bringing me back down to earth.

[Trimmer]

Inwardly I felt a sense of revulsion that I couldn't explain (more so than with other guys who've approached me that I wasn't interested in), but now I'm thinking I was picking up on something off about his approach.

I'm sorry, but I think I'm just not understanding, at any given moment, where you're coming from. Were you feeling this inward sense of revulsion when you wrote, in this thread, that you didn't think he was a creep, that you thought he was nice, and that he was just naive about American culture? I can't keep straight what you really thought about this guy as the story developed.

 

You consistently mentioned that you didn't think he was a creep, that he was nice, etc, until you found out he was married - that much I understand. But are you now saying that you had this feeling of revulsion all along? Then why were you joking with him, why did you say "yes" to dancing, why did you say "...I'll think about it" the second time he asked? If the sense of revulsion was there - even unexplained and instinctual, as TBF points out - why in the world did you continue to engage? Was he nice, and naive, or was he revolting?

[Kamille]

Thanks, Kamille, for bringing me back down to earth.

 

Yay! Glad I helped you get back down to what matters.

 

I was 30 years old the first time I allowed myself to truly dislike someone without somehow twisting it around and internalizing it as a comment on my like-ability. Allowing myself to just not like someone who was treating me like **** was one of the most liberating experiences in my life. Before, my thoughts would get twisted around and I would wonder why that person and I didn't get along. The simple basic truth is, nobody gets along with everybody. Once you accept that, you can stop wasting your thoughts and time on people you don't like or who don't like you and focus instead on the good things in life.

 

I think that I, like you, get so caught up on wanting to be liked and accepted that I forget that I don't have to win everybody's approval. I think being bullied as a kid has a lot to do with it.

[meerkat stew]

Agreed with the advice, but, yeah, I think it makes him a creeper if she's half his age, as she said. I'm 25 (and look younger, if anything). If someone who's hit 40 hits on me, I think, "Creep." There's no reason a healthy 40 year old man should be hitting on me or any other girl my age. I know everyone doesn't agree, but it's creep-worthy to lots of folks.

 

I'm a 46 y.o. man. Most of the women who show interest in me these days are in their 20s. By your logic, and OP's, and several others in the thread, these younger women who show interest in me, and other older men, are "creepers," right? Or does the logic not work both ways?

 

So that's OK, if younger women, many of whom prefer older men as a matter of course (and have throughout the entirety of human history), approach us, but if we ever decide to approach them, we are "creepers" by mere age-definition?

 

Interesting. Lots of different shades, and -smells-, of BS in this thread.

[TMichaels]

Look, shadowplay...

 

If this guy has approached you more than once, you've told you you're not interested and he has continued pressuring you making you uncomfortable at work -- his age, ethnicity, marital status, your lack of self-image or whatever else that's gotten thrown into this thread has nothing to do with it.

 

You're being sexually harassed in the workplace and that's a Federal offense.

 

Doesn't make a *&^% bit of difference whether the pursuer thinks "he's just being friendly" or "the flirtation is innocent" -- if the target has communicated to his/her pursuer the attention or conduct is unwelcome their employer has a legal obligation to look into the matter, or face Federal action and penalties.

 

For more information about how to handle the situation, you might want to take a look here.

 

If you do report it to your employer, and the harassment continues -- either because he/she did nothing to address it or his/her actions were ineffective -- then call your local EEOC office and file a complaint.

 

There's a reason why these laws are in place. No one, including you, should feel uncomfortable, threatened or fearful of retaliation in the workplace. And, it's your employer's responsibility ensure that's not the case.

 

Best,

TMichaels

[zengirl]

I'm a 46 y.o. man. Most of the women who show interest in me these days are in their 20s. By your logic, and OP's, and several others in the thread, these younger women who show interest in me, and other older men, are "creepers," right? Or does the logic not work both ways?

 

So that's OK, if younger women, many of whom prefer older men as a matter of course (and have throughout the entirety of human history), approach us, but if we ever decide to approach them, we are "creepers" by mere age-definition?

 

Interesting. Lots of different shades, and -smells-, of BS in this thread.

 

I find them unhealthy, yes. I knew a few college girls when I was in college who claimed to be too "mature" for boys in their 20s and preferred older (sometimes married!) men who would spend a lot of money on them, typically. Never met a girl with those preferences who was what I consider healthy or someone I wanted to know as a human being now. So, yes, I find them a bit creepy. As in not people I want to be around.

 

I also guess I resent them a bit for giving these men the idea that they should be able to approach girls my age. Honestly, if the older men who approached me weren't so horrid, I wouldn't have the same vehemence about it (I'd still find it odd and weird and a sign of either immaturity or something else unhealthy), but it's easy to feel attacked by these fellows.

 

Just like I don't want to be cat-called, I don't want men being persistent when I've displayed my disinterest or even stated it clearly. I don't want to stoop to being a bitch, but it's always older men that I find putting me in a situation where I have to go from assertive/drawing my lines to actively being aggressive and mean about it. (Unlike the OP, I don't give "Maybes" anyway, but these are the guys who need to hear something meaner than a "No.")

[meerkat stew]

Honestly, if the older men who approached me weren't so horrid, I wouldn't have the same vehemence about it

 

And there it is in a nutshell, if you find an older guy socially adept and attractive, it's not so bad, still not optimal, but -that- guy at least is not a full-blown "creeper." Do you not see the inconsistency in labelling a guy a "creep" based not on their express behavior towards you, but merely because of age, appearance, ethnicity, race, etc. when you admit that certain subjective factors affect the degree of their creepiness?

 

"Bring it on, Brad, but you, Schmendrick, stay tf away!" sums it up, right? Fair enough, you didn't like Schmendrick, but why take it to the next level of "Schmendrick is necessarily a "creeper" merely for paying you the compliment of approaching you and showing you interest based on some immutable characteristic of his, age, ethnicity, social customs, or anything else? Why not just stop at "I'm not attracted," without all the added (and unnecessary) overlay value judgment about Schmendrick's supposed right to approach you or anyone else in the first place?

 

The reason this type of attitude annoys many men is that we are still expected to do the social approaching, by and large, and in addition to the chance of rejection this entails, find ourselves subject to further prejudgment, completely subjective judgment in an individual female mind, as to whether it is "proper" for us to approach a given woman at all. We face the prospect of rejection PLUS the prospect of being judged for having the nerve to approach at all. Ridiculous, yet a prevalent bad attitude in certain young U.S. women IME.

 

This thread reeks of it, for example is being flirted with once or twice and being asked out in private once truly equivalent to "won't leave me alone?" Certainly doesn't seem so, seems rather too dramatic in fact based on what is typed. Guy asks you out, you don't want to go... say no. If he askes you out again, say no again and tell him you are not interested in dating him at all. Simple, yet why such a big deal?

 

We don't get to go through life with some magic bubble that protects us innately from those we'd rather not socialize with, yet magically "lets in" those we deem worthy of approaching us, things don't work that way. We take control of our social circumstances directly or we have no reason for complaint... or keep complaining and remain children in the emotional maturity department.

 

Now of course this doesn't apply to pesty people who keep on and on despite being told no, but that's not the situation described in the thread at all.

Edited August 2, 2010 by meerkat stew

[shadowplay]

Wow, so this other girl at work was getting harassed when I was there this morning. Not by the same guy, but by the even creepier dude in his fifties -- also married with kids -- who I briefly mentioned earlier in the thread. He's about 5'1" and looks like a smarmy garden gnome with gold teeth. She's 5'9" and just turned 21. I overheard him ask her quite seriously for a kiss, and she cried out: "No!" I didn't see what happened, but it sounded bad. These dudes have no boundaries!

 

From their perspective it must be great: a revolving door of pretty young women (people are constantly quitting) ripe for the picking.

Edited August 2, 2010 by shadowplay

[zengirl]

And there it is in a nutshell, if you find an older guy socially adept and attractive, it's not so bad, still not optimal, but -that- guy at least is not a full-blown "creeper." Do you not see the inconsistency in labelling a guy a "creep" based not on their express behavior towards you, but merely because of age, appearance, ethnicity, race, etc. when you admit that certain subjective factors affect the degree of their creepiness?

 

You cut the part of my post where I explained WHY I find it creepy. I don't find any man who'd approach me, over 40 (or even mid/late 30s) attractive, physically or emotionally, and I think they'd have to be very immature to want to approach 20-somethings. As I said, I'd be less vocal about calling them creeps if they didn't bother me, with it, but that's human nature. I wouldn't think about them at all if they didn't approach me.

 

I've never had a guy I considered not "creepy" approach me that was vastly out of my age range (about 6 years in either direction, though not quite that far down at the moment, since it'd be college-aged). I do find it creepy just that a man that old would approach me! But I wouldn't be vehement about it, as I said, if they didn't prove to be creepier still with their actions in doing so.

 

"Bring it on, Brad, but you, Schmendrick, stay tf away!" sums it up, right? Fair enough, you didn't like Schmendrick, but why take it to the next level of "Schmendrick is necessarily a "creeper" merely for paying you the compliment of approaching you and showing you interest based on some immutable characteristic of his, age, ethnicity, social customs, or anything else? Why not just stop at "I'm not attracted," without all the added (and unnecessary) overlay value judgment about Schmendrick's supposed right to approach you or anyone else in the first place?

 

Because I find it disturbing someone who is almost my parents' age would see me as a sexual object. I don't understand why that's hard to imagine. It may be life that they do, but it still disturbs me personally.

 

We don't get to go through life with some magic bubble that protects us innately from those we'd rather not socialize with, yet magically "lets in" those we deem worthy of approaching us, things don't work that way. We take control of our social circumstances directly or we have no reason for complaint... or keep complaining and remain children in the emotional maturity department.

 

I don't believe we live in that world either, and it doesn't ruin my life when a creepy old guy bothers me, even if he's persistent (which they almost always are). It doesn't even ruin my day/night. But I will say everywhere as loud as I can that I find it disturbing, in the hopes that it will make more of them think twice. That's just my prerogative.

[MsSydneyLane]

Say no and be firm about it. Tell him youre not interested or youre already taken. Sorry grandpa.. you just didnt make the cut.. :p:p

[sally4sara]

I am not fluent in Spanish, but I have found one phrase to be quite helpful with the aggressive come ons.

 

Dame algo de respeto y tener cuidado en cómo me hablas. Yo no soy interesado.

 

Basically you are asking him to show you some respect by not speaking to you so intimately and that you're not interested. You don't have to use profanity; it often makes you seem less worthy of the respect you're asking for. And for all you know, the way he is acting is completely appropriate to him because you didn't immediately speak up about your disinterest.

 

He has not insulted you in a way he would recognize as insulting. I'm betting he thinks he is flattering you. In a way - HE IS flattering you. He is letting you know he finds you attractive. That is suppose to be flattering in every language. You will need to continue to work with him. If you blow up and the person you blow up on or curse at doesn't think they've done you harm - they will find YOU insulting and it will make the work environment continue to be awkward or worse.

[Ariadne]

Dame algo de respeto y tener cuidado en cómo me hablas. Yo no soy interesado.

 

Translation: Please give me a bit of respect and be careful how you talk to me. I'm not interested.

 

It sounds as lame in Spanish as it sounds in English..

 

(Just say "no me moleste" firmly if you want to say something in Spanish, I know they will leave you alone)

[SassyKitten]

I also guess I resent them a bit for giving these men the idea that they should be able to approach girls my age. Honestly, if the older men who approached me weren't so horrid, I wouldn't have the same vehemence about it (I'd still find it odd and weird and a sign of either immaturity or something else unhealthy), but it's easy to feel attacked by these fellows.

 

Just like I don't want to be cat-called, I don't want men being persistent when I've displayed my disinterest or even stated it clearly. I don't want to stoop to being a bitch, but it's always older men that I find putting me in a situation where I have to go from assertive/drawing my lines to actively being aggressive and mean about it. (Unlike the OP, I don't give "Maybes" anyway, but these are the guys who need to hear something meaner than a "No.")

 

I am completely with you on this one, most of the harassment I have gotten is from men old enough to be my father but older. And by and large, they don't seem to take no for an answer, which does leave me having to resort to being a bitch. And seeing as older men can be often like this, it makes me wonder if deep down inside so many men are pedophiles.

 

And I do resent the airheads out there for giving men the idea that cat-calling is an effective way to attract a woman. It's repulsive, degrading, and the reason that I usually drive with sunglasses on and my stereo blaring.

[meerkat stew]

You cut the part of my post where I explained WHY I find it creepy. I don't find any man who'd approach me, over 40 (or even mid/late 30s) attractive, physically or emotionally, and I think they'd have to be very immature to want to approach 20-somethings.

 

Fair enough, nothing at all wrong with having subjective attitudes and preferences. Many people aren't attracted to those of other races, political beliefs, religions, and that's their prerogative. The trouble lies in attempting to extend a subjective preference into supposed objective truth, i.e. instead of "I don't like it," "I don't like it... and it's wrong for everyone else too." Or to be blunt and directly on topic, "Oh those ... Spanish... guys," "Oh those... old... guys." as if by just saying that, others will know exactly what you are talking about and not find the statement offensive on its face.

 

In essence, who are you to say that any adult man is necessarily "immature" for approaching any adult woman? Or that any adult woman is necessarily "unhealthy" just because you wouldn't want to "be" them in their pursuit of an older man? Your analysis is rather shy and superficial on just -how- these men are immature or -how- these women are.

 

I've never had a guy I considered not "creepy" approach me that was vastly out of my age range (about 6 years in either direction, though not quite that far down at the moment, since it'd be college-aged).

 

Wish I had your talent of divining age. Personally, I can't even estimate a six year difference in age of a woman or man, once they are 18 years old or so, and that's after experiencing tens of thousands of people of all ages over the last 30 years of sexually mature adulthood. Was recently talking to a woman whom I thought was 24, and who thought I was 38. It came out by accident that she was actually 32, and I'm 46. Perhaps we should go around with "Indian Poker" age cards on our heads to determine whom we should and should not be socializing with?

 

Social skills, charm and flirtation, sexual appeal, are not as "age-linked" as you seem to think. When Matthew McConaughey walks into a room and talks to people, how many women think "He's still hot, but look at him talking to that 28 y.o. woman and he's FORTY?? what a creeper!" Is the "subjective/objective" point starting to sink in? even a little? Of course celebrities are exceptions, because they trade on youthful appearance, but there are tons of people out there who look much younger (or older) than they actually are. Would you dismiss out of hand a prematurely gray or bald 30 y.o. due to a wrongful assumption about age alone? Would you call a bald guy who wears hornrims "an old creeper" even if he was your same age?

 

Because I find it disturbing someone who is almost my parents' age would see me as a sexual object. I don't understand why that's hard to imagine. It may be life that they do, but it still disturbs me personally.

 

Again, that's your prerogative with respect to -your- choices, but have to tell you that neither human nature nor human history is on your side here in trying to extend your subjective beliefs into some objectively valid prejudice. If you were a minor, sure, but there's just not much difference between an 18 y.o. sexually viable human being and a 28 y.o., at least not in appearance alone that derives somehow from age itself.

 

 

But I will say everywhere as loud as I can that I find it disturbing, in the hopes that it will make more of them think twice. That's just my prerogative.

 

Just how exactly is it supposed to make them "think twice?" They have no decoder ring, no way of knowing whether you are one of the women who has strong age preferences versus one who doesn't. As stated previously, I get approached by much younger women more than by women my own age, what that has made me "think twice" about in recent years has been my own subjective preference for women my own age to the point of excluding younger women.

 

One thing many women seem to forget over and over is that average men do not generally have the same degree of advance knowledge in mating that average women do. Men pick whom to approach, but women have the ultimate say on which advances they accept or reject. We have no reliable knowledge of which of our advances will be accepted and which rejected beforehand, whereas women know fairly certainly that a man who approaches and makes an advance is usually at least interested in some way. We do know for sure that if we stop making advances, or arbitrarily over-restrict our advances based on the subjective preferences of others, that we will most likely be empty handed in the dating/mating game. Under your assumptions, men would have to go through way too many hoops in assessing whether to simply approach and speak to a member of the opposite sex.

 

One final point is that it is unrealistic to expect a world where only desirable people make sincere advances towards the opposite sex for dating. The faucet is either on or off. You either take the chaff with the wheat, or don't get any wheat. When men feel stultified in approaching women, it's not just the undesirables who, after reading threads like this, figure, "Why bother making sincere approaches at all with all this arbitrary female BS? Why not just take what I want in the form of casual sex, lots of that out there and available, and leave the traditional asking out and dating to the chumps? Screw it!" That results in exactly the kind of snowballing gender and dating issues we are finding ourselves mired in today.

Edited August 2, 2010 by meerkat stew