WintersNightTraveler Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 When is it acceptable to use a person's race to describe them, their actions, and personality? Since the thread was suppose to be about AGE, I'm having a hard time understanding the OP's repeated reference to race. Actually the race part is pretty important. Which tells you more about the situation: 1 - Some older guy I work with won't stop hitting on me 2 - The Spanish cook at the restaurant I work keeps calling me "mi amor" and "mamacita" and won't stop There is significantly more useful information in the second (about the guy, about the poster, about the work environment, etc). Whether it's fair is a different question, but it's certainly relevant.
SassyKitten Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 Racist TONE is what I wrote........... When is it acceptable to use a person's race to describe them, their actions, and personality? Since the thread was suppose to be about AGE, I'm having a hard time understanding the OP's repeated reference to race. I was noticing the racist tone as well. An older man hitting on me is just gross, equally gross despite what his ethnic background is.
linwood Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 How do I make this stop??? Talk to the chef. He should reel his ass in pretty quickly.
florence of suburbia Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 At various different restaurant and retail jobs when I was younger, I worked with guys from Brazil, Peru and El Salvador. I have to admit, I laughed off a lot of innappropriate flirting from them that would genuinely upset me if coming from someone born in the US. It isn't about race at all, it's about knowing that their behavior is based largely on different cultural norms and doesn't mean the same thing.
sweetjasmine Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 Racist TONE is what I wrote........... When is it acceptable to use a person's race to describe them, their actions, and personality? Since the thread was suppose to be about AGE, I'm having a hard time understanding the OP's repeated reference to race. I mostly agree with your point, but I think the guy's cultural background is relevant, here, to some extent. My family is from Latin America, and I can tell you it's true that men flirting aggressively with women is much more acceptable in most cultures in the region than it is here in the US. The guy may not even realize that he's creeping her out or acting inappropriately, which is why she needs to cut out the "maybe" stuff and subtle hints like avoiding eye contact and instead directly tell him, "Please stop. You're making me uncomfortable. I'm not interested in you." He might be a creep or it might be a case of culture clash. In any case, she needs to confront him.
txsilkysmoothe Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 Actually the race part is pretty important. Which tells you more about the situation: 1 - Some older guy I work with won't stop hitting on me 2 - The Spanish cook at the restaurant I work keeps calling me "mi amor" and "mamacita" and won't stop There is significantly more useful information in the second (about the guy, about the poster, about the work environment, etc). Whether it's fair is a different question, but it's certainly relevant. Relevant to what? A justification for her disgust? How dare that Spanish man think he can flirt with the OP? Doesn't he know his place? And he has the nerve to speak Spanish. OMG! She mentions him "cornering her" three times as if he is a predator. I guess a thread titled "I'm so pissed. Two Spanish men at work won't leave me alone" seemed too politically incorrect.
Ariadne Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 He kept calling me "mi amour" or "mamasita" or "bonita" How do I make this stop??? I have no clue what to say the next time he corners me and it's extremely awkward since I see him every day. Next time he corners you, look at him firmly in the eyes, point at the door and say: Fuera! (out) And if he says bonita etc, you can say: No me moleste! (don't bother me)
bittersweet memories Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 these latino guys can be quite aggressive Not just latino's babe..men in general but in this case he is latino..so yeah!
Author shadowplay Posted July 30, 2010 Author Posted July 30, 2010 You felt the need to describe the men in your story as either "Spanish" or "American." You painted the "Spanish" as lesser human beings than the fine "American" white man. I think that's an oversimplification. I'd feel the same way if the guy were French and spoke broken English. I'm most interested in guys who are from a similar culture to mine and who are fluent in English. I think that's a pretty natural want. I mentioned his ethnicity to highlight the cultural differences, because I think that's part of why he's being more aggressive than I'm used to.
Ariadne Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 Relevant to what? A justification for her disgust? How dare that Spanish man think he can flirt with the OP? This guy is being fresh already.
bittersweet memories Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 Racist TONE is what I wrote........... When is it acceptable to use a person's race to describe them, their actions, and personality? Since the thread was suppose to be about AGE, I'm having a hard time understanding the OP's repeated reference to race. I gotta agree with you on this one..
WintersNightTraveler Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 Relevant to what? A justification for her disgust? Since when are relevance and justification the same thing? I never said I thought it was good that there are the things that were focused on. I was actually surprised the race thing wasn't brought up earlier. When I say relevant... The thread had no real point, aside from provoking discussion on the OP's situation. The information is very relevant to that. Largely because it tells you about the OP (type of employment, feels uncomfortable around aggressive older men particularly latino ones, is competitive for younger (white) male attention with the other female staff), about the cook and the work environment (restaurant with plenty of racial dynamics in play). Without that information it's a pretty empty thread (basically "yuck old guys"). The very fact that you responded shows how it's relevant. You wouldn't have bothered jumping in otherwise, unless you really didn't like old guys I guess. There are biases of all types are all over this thread. I'm surprised you found the first post so offensive but ignored the suggestion that the INS get involved.
Author shadowplay Posted July 30, 2010 Author Posted July 30, 2010 I think racist is way overstating it, but there is definitely a culture clash factor. I'm also curious about the term "Spanish" to refer to Latinos. I've heard it a lot in the last few years and it strikes me as strange. Is it used when country of origin is unknown, because it would be a misnomer in most cases. Are these guys from El Salvador or Mexico, or Puerto Rico, or what? Anyway, to build on what Spookie said about your "off" perspective, maybe if you saw these guys as people you'd be able to relate better and find a simple but effective way to deflect the unwanted advances. I agree that it's annoying, but you seem to be taking it too seriously. Yeah, I meant Spanish as Latino but I guess it wasn't the best description because it could also mean Spanish from Spain exclusively. The cooks are from a number of countries in Latin America -- Puerto Rico, El Salvador, Ecuador. He's the only one whose country of origin I don't know.
Author shadowplay Posted July 30, 2010 Author Posted July 30, 2010 I did consider the possibly racist overtones when I started this thread in mentioning his ethnicity (knew someone would pounce on that), but it seemed like it would be weird not to mention it because the cultural clash is an important part of the dynamic.
WintersNightTraveler Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 Since the thread was suppose to be about AGE Says who? Threads are about what's written in them, not whatever someone might find acceptable for a thread to discuss.
WintersNightTraveler Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 but it seemed like it would be weird not to mention it because the cultural clash is an important part of the dynamic. It wouldn't have been weird, it just would have been boring and probably the lack of information would have made for a less fruitful discussion.
txsilkysmoothe Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 There are biases of all types are all over this thread. I'm surprised you found the first post so offensive but ignored the suggestion that the INS get involved. I believe Alphamale's "INS" post was sarcasm as was the other he made prior - his manner of pointing out the racial undertone. I see your point of view, largely agree with you, and didn't fully understand your first post. I consider the poster and original post to carry the most weight and therefore responsibility for content. It was disappointing that so many either seemed to agree or not even notice the complaint was more about race than age. If age was the complaint I would expect comments about why older men are so distasteful - (age difference, hair loss, wrinkled, concern about sexual stamina, old enough to be dad, have kids and ex-wife, etc.) If the descriptions "Spanish" and "American" were removed, I wouldn't have a problem with the thread. I can certainly agree with you that the content is very telling.
txsilkysmoothe Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 I did consider the possibly racist overtones when I started this thread in mentioning his ethnicity (knew someone would pounce on that), but it seemed like it would be weird not to mention it because the cultural clash is an important part of the dynamic. And the need to reference the "American"..................
txsilkysmoothe Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 Says who? Threads are about what's written in them, not whatever someone might find acceptable for a thread to discuss. My mistake for thinking a thread's content will correlate with it's title.
Author shadowplay Posted July 30, 2010 Author Posted July 30, 2010 And the need to reference the "American".................. Well, naturally I'm going to be more interested in someone who has more in common with me. Most people would be. This includes a number of factors -- age, education level, fluency in English and cultural background. I wouldn't rule out somebody from a totally different culture, bu tthey'd have to be similar in other ways.
WintersNightTraveler Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 Well, naturally I'm going to be more interested in someone who has more in common with me. Most people would be. This includes a number of factors -- age, education level, fluency in English and cultural background. Nahh, gotta be blunt, you indirectly equated white and american there, it was a little odd. My mistake for thinking a thread's content will correlate with it's title. OK, realistically how do you think this thread would have gone down if it said Latino in the title. Inst-flame war no thanks. But yeah we pretty much agree otherwise, I don't think it was as big a deal maybe. Yeah alpha has that dry wit, I'm just not sure who gets it and who doesn't.
txsilkysmoothe Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 Well, naturally I'm going to be more interested in someone who has more in common with me. Most people would be. This includes a number of factors -- age, education level, fluency in English and cultural background. I wouldn't rule out somebody from a totally different culture, bu tthey'd have to be similar in other ways. I understand what you're saying now. I would agree with those who have advised you to be direct with him. You can't be sure he is a creep until you've clearly communicated you are not interested.
Author shadowplay Posted July 30, 2010 Author Posted July 30, 2010 I understand what you're saying now. I would agree with those who have advised you to be direct with him. You can't be sure he is a creep until you've clearly communicated you are not interested. I don't think he's a creep, which is why I feel bad. I think he's actually nice but naive about American norms.
Author shadowplay Posted July 30, 2010 Author Posted July 30, 2010 Nahh, gotta be blunt, you indirectly equated white and american there, it was a little odd. Where'd I do that? I have no problem whatsoever dating an American who isn't white.
WintersNightTraveler Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 Where'd I do that? I have no problem whatsoever dating an American who isn't white. Let me rephrase. By calling the first two guys spanish, and then contrasting an american, you indirectly implied someone who is culturally spanish cannot also be american. I disagree very strongly with that implication, and if I was spanish, I might also be personally offended. Meant that way or not, correct or not, that's how the OP reads to me. Tell me if I'm wrong and the 3rd dude wasn't white.
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