I'm so pissed. Older guy at work won't leave me alone

[shadowplay]

Yeah OK I get that, so a non-good-looking guy asks you out, big deal. You're acting like if an unattractive guy asks you out is has some deeper meaning than the fact he would just like to go out with you.

 

 

 

 

You don't have to go out with anyone you don't want to, but plenty of people go out with other people with 10, 15, or even greater age differences. Again, the point is you're acting like it's a world-ending event that some older dude is attracted to you. Maybe that just means he has "good taste" in women?

 

 

 

 

 

LOL. You DO realize you're both working in the same restaurant? You might be a waitress and he might be back in the kitchen, but still...

 

In any event so what if you have nothing in common, where is all the shock and awe coming from? I mean the dude is working his butt off as a dishwasher, he flirts with an attractive waitress which is probably just what he does all the time, and (from his point of view), she flirts back.

 

I think you're just making way too big a deal of this whole situation.

 

Maybe it's because as you said earlier, this is the first guy in three years to ask you out, and you're just not used to ANYONE showing interest in you, so you don't know how to respond? Yeah the guy is unattractive, but getting that kind of attention is kind of nice....so you don't say "no" clearly, or actually at all, and now the guy thinks you're flirting/playing hard to get with him.

 

But still it's just not a really big deal at all.

 

How long do you work, six/eight hour shifts? How much time in a given shift do you actually spend interacting with this guy when he's flirting with you? Maybe 5 or ten minutes at most I'll bet--'cause you're both busy working, right?

 

 

 

 

 

You shouldn't go out with him if you don't want, but that doesn't mean you should react so offended that the guy wanted to go out with you.

 

Really, a simple "No thank you, I'm not interested" would have sufficed. If you need to get stronger then say "No thanks, I don't poo where I eat" which he'll understand; and if you need to be stronger still, next time he does it, pick up a meat cleaver, look him straight in the eye, and say: "Get out of my face now or I will part you from your cojones."

 

He'll get the message.

 

OK, I get what you're saying. I'd probably think the same if I read my thread and didn't know anything else about me.

 

The thing you have to understand is I've struggled with self esteem issues for awhile. At one point in my life as a teenager they were so debilitating that I couldn't leave the house, so I often will twist any situation around to be a negative reflection on myself. I don't think this has much relation to how I view other people.

 

It's all about how I view myself. In other words, if I were looking at the situation objectively and another girl who worked there reported being offended that the guy asked her out, I'd think she was being silly. See what I mean?

 

It's just my brain twisting things around, and I can do it with almost any external stimuli...though I've honestly gotten a lot better.

 

I'd say 90% of what I found upsetting was just the fact that he kept cornering me, and not that I felt insulted. I guess that didn't come across in my thread. But I spent most of the day at work trying to avoid him, and moving to another side of the restaurant when he was nearby. It made me feel really on edge. Nobody likes to be pestered by somebody they're not interested in, especially in a very cramped, all ready stressful work environment.

[GordonDarkfoot]

Look don't get me wrong here....maybe I'm not being articulate enough...

 

but if the guy is actually "cornering" you, as in, restricting your freedom of movement against your will, literally, then it seems to me you have an obligation to report him to management. That's what I mean by playing it like an "adult." Quitting your job (letting yourself being intimidated) is not being an "adult." Also, if you quit, he will pull these moves on some other waitress.

 

If "cornering" just means he is always seeming to get into your space, but not actually restricting your freedom of movement, then it's more of a borderline call, because you don't want to rat the guy out if it's really something you can handle yourself.

 

You need to be able to learn to handle certain situations in a self-confident way, on your own.

 

But it's up to you--handle it on your own, or complain to management. Or some combination.

 

But I wouldn't think about quitting unless management refused to do anything about it, you can't handle it yourself, and the situation really becomes intolerable.

 

You can't let bullies control your life that way, or you will always be looking over your shoulder.

 

Sometimes the only thing you can do is just get a thicker skin, give it back as good as you get it, and if necessary (and I am absolutely serious about this) be fully prepared to drive your point home with a hard to knee to the guy's crotch. Definitely if the guy ever actually touches you, retribution must be swift, unconditional, and extremely painful.

[shadowplay]

From his viewpoint you're just playing "hard to get." Because you had a couple of opportunities to shut this down at the beginning and you didn't--I suspect that you didn't like the guy at all but on some level, you liked the attention you were getting.

 

But this guy isn't some white bread American high school or college boy that you can wrap around your little finger, or intimidate with any feminist rant; he's some 40 year old latino dude who doesn't care if some waitress smacks him the face or gets offended or calls him a "sexist."

 

But he is also an adult human being, as some others have tried to point out to you in this thread.

 

I suggest that you try acting like one yourself, and try to treat him as one too, and not a scared "little girl" who does not take responsibility for her actions.

 

If this guy is "cornering you" (whatever that means) then you should have already reported these "incidents" to the manager IMMEDIATELY. If you DID NOT then again from his perspective you are simply playing "hard to get."

 

Seriously, when this guy has gotten into your personal space, have you ever simply said "Get the f*ck away from me *sshole," then go about your bidness?

 

Like I said you're in the adult world now honey.

 

While I agree that it was stupid for me to not shut it down at the start, a few details of the work environment may explain some of my behavior.

 

First off all the guys who work there are really, really nice and friendly, including this guy. We, the waitresses, all have good working relationships with them that includes a lot of banter and, yes, some light flirtation. All the waitresses and cooks are a bit flirty with each other. So when this guy originally flirted with me, I flirted back a bit, because that's what all the waitresses do. I also want to maintain a good working relationship with the cooks as they're all friends, we work literally a few feet away from each other for 8 hour shifts, and they actually hold more power than the waitresses do in the restaurant.

 

When this guy originally asked me if I'd dance with him, it was in the context of some very light flirtation and I was honestly 100 percent certain he was just kidding around as it was no more unusual than any of the flirty comments the cooks will make with waitresses. Haven't you ever seen an older guy flirt with a younger woman he works with in a joking manner, asking her to marry him, etc.? And she kind of plays along to be friendly. That's how I took it. But in retrospect, I should have been a lot more cautious and taken note of the language barrier and cultural differences.

 

When I said "cornered" I meant it quite literally. We were the only people in a dark, narrow basement corridor and he was standing in my way.

 

Anyway, I hesitated to flat out reject him because I didn't want him to tell all his cook friends I had shot him down. I was worried they'd start disliking me. But maybe that was stupid.

[Trimmer]

I'd say 90% of what I found upsetting was just the fact that he kept cornering me, and not that I felt insulted. I guess that didn't come across in my thread. But I spent most of the day at work trying to avoid him, and moving to another side of the restaurant when he was nearby.

Just for clarification, can you explain literally, and specifically, what you mean by him "cornering" you? Did he physically block your way? Or by "cornering" do you mean you were trying to avoid him, yet he still found ways to find you and ask you questions you didn't want to answer?

 

Personally, I probably use the term "cornered" more often in the metaphorical way: "Damn... My boss cornered me in the hallway and asked me for a status update on the project..." He didn't physically block me, he just caught me when I didn't want to talk to him...

 

The reason I ask is because posters on this thread are making assumptions about what you mean by this term (i.e. report it to management as harrassment, etc...) and if those assumptions are true, then it does color your situation with a darder paint, but if you mean the term "cornering" more metaphorically, then those assumptions are off-base.

[shadowplay]

Just for clarification, can you explain literally, and specifically, what you mean by him "cornering" you? Did he physically block your way? Or by "cornering" do you mean you were trying to avoid him, yet he still found ways to find you and ask you questions you didn't want to answer?

 

Personally, I probably use the term "cornered" more often in the metaphorical way: "Damn... My boss cornered me in the hallway and asked me for a status update on the project..." He didn't physically block me, he just caught me when I didn't want to talk to him...

 

The reason I ask is because posters on this thread are making assumptions about what you mean by this term (i.e. report it to management as harrassment, etc...) and if those assumptions are true, then it does color your situation with a darder paint, but if you mean the term "cornering" more metaphorically, then those assumptions are off-base.

 

I'd say it was more of a borderline call, as GordonFoot described in his last post. We were alone in a narrow, dark basement corridor and he was standing in my path, but I doubt he would have blocked my entry if I had tried to pass. So it felt like a little of physical and metaphorical cornering mixed together.

[shadowplay]

I just want to add that I don't think this guy has bad intentions or is anything but a nice person. My intuition about people is usually pretty accurate. The sense I get is he's just totally clueless, probably in part because of the cultural differences. That's why I wouldn't even consider reporting him at this point unless after I give him a firm "no" the next time around he continues to bother me.

[shadowplay]

Shadow, I can understand where you are coming from to a certain extent. I also suffer from extremely low self esteem. I feel like I am constantly bickering with myself. I know I am not considered overweight, I know that others consider me attractive, I know I have a decent personality, but there is ALWAYS that self doubt, that nag in my head that tells me I am not good enough. My self esteem issues made me a real flake with no backbone during my teenage years.

 

When I worked in a restaurant I had a guy do the same thing... pushed me against the wall, came on to me very heavily. He was white, btw, and his wife was just around the corner. It was a mix of emotions... a small part of me liked the attention (due to my low self esteem) but a greater part of me felt extremely uncomfortable. I never had the nerve to tell my boss, but fortunately he quit soon after the incident.

 

If that were to happen to me today, lol, you better believe my reaction would be different.

 

This situation is easily solved. You tell this guy to back the **** off. That is all there is too it. Awkward for you? Who cares, you go about your day. It will all pass, and in just a month from now this whole situation will be a non issue for the both of you.

 

I have awkward moments like this all the time at work. Like I said, I work with the elderly, so I'm talking 65+ year old guys hitting on me. One asked if he could sign my breasts after I asked him to sign my time sheet.

 

All it takes is a rejection, and if it persists you go the manager. Who cares what other people think.

 

I want to give him a clear "no" but in a not nasty way, because I think he's a nice person and because I want to maintain a good relationship with him and the other cooks.

 

Any advice on how to do this tactfully?

[carhill]

Hey, when I was dishwashing, the waiters/waitresses and cocktailers used to tip me after a busy evening. This reinforced the social pecking order at the restaurant, meaning I was beneath them. At $1.65 an hour, I got that message

 

Shadow, I know this is hard, because it goes against who you believe yourself to be, but you have to just look through this guy like he doesn't exist. Care less. Right now, your care is way out of proportion to circumstances.

 

Ignore him and, if he bugs you again, bring the manager/owner in and do a face-to-face. Then go back to ignoring him. Chances are, if there are other women working there, he's doing the same thing to them.

 

I've worked around men like this in a lot tougher job category. They only understand two things: violence and the loss of their paycheck. Sometimes they get both. Good luck

[shadowplay]

Shadow, I can understand where you are coming from to a certain extent. I also suffer from extremely low self esteem. I feel like I am constantly bickering with myself. I know I am not considered overweight, I know that others consider me attractive, I know I have a decent personality, but there is ALWAYS that self doubt, that nag in my head that tells me I am not good enough. My self esteem issues made me a real flake with no backbone during my teenage years.

 

When I worked in a restaurant I had a guy do the same thing... pushed me against the wall, came on to me very heavily. He was white, btw, and his wife was just around the corner. It was a mix of emotions... a small part of me liked the attention (due to my low self esteem) but a greater part of me felt extremely uncomfortable. I never had the nerve to tell my boss, but fortunately he quit soon after the incident.

 

If that were to happen to me today, lol, you better believe my reaction would be different.

 

This situation is easily solved. You tell this guy to back the **** off. That is all there is too it. Awkward for you? Who cares, you go about your day. It will all pass, and in just a month from now this whole situation will be a non issue for the both of you.

 

I have awkward moments like this all the time at work. Like I said, I work with the elderly, so I'm talking 65+ year old guys hitting on me. One asked if he could sign my breasts after I asked him to sign my time sheet.

 

All it takes is a rejection, and if it persists you go the manager. Who cares what other people think.

 

The way you were sounds a lot like me.

 

I used to be even less assertive when guys hit on me. When I was 17 I worked briefly in a video store and there was this 65 year old guy who used to come in and flirt with me like crazy. I wasn't flirty back, I just smiled politely. One day he asked me to show him where a video was in the store and as I was leading him there, he asked me to hold his hand, although he was by no means disabled. Can you believe I was naive/stupid enough to actually do it? Then he told me, "you know you're the only reason I come to this store."

 

Looking back on it now, I can't believe I let him take my hand. I still have boundary issues, but I've come a ways from where I was.

 

I absolutely hate rejecting people, but I guess I have to toughen up.

[shadowplay]

Ha, my new roommate (another girl) just arrived. It turns out she used to work at the same place but quit because of how stressful and demanding was (everybody who works there seems to). She only had positive things to say about the cooks, though. I didn't share my story with her, since we just met and it would be inappropriate.

[shadowplay]

I just remembered another few instances where I let a guy harass me. I was 21 and temping, and this French dude in his thirties/forties who owned the company I temped for about a week would get extremely close to me, like within an inch or two whenever he showed me something. I think at one point he was even touching me lightly, and I let him get away with it even though I felt disgusted inside. I didn't think much of it after, but I guess it is a behavior I have to work on.

[MrNate]

I just remembered another few instances where I let a guy harass me. I was 21 and temping, and this French dude in his thirties/forties who owned the company I temped for about a week would get extremely close to me, like within an inch or two whenever he showed me something. I think at one point he was even touching me lightly, and I let him get away with it even though I felt disgusted inside. I didn't think much of it after, but I guess it is a behavior I have to work on.

 

Hey, Shadow, Mr. Nate chiming in. Don't settle for less than what you feel you deserve. There are very few just plain unattractive women in the world, and I know you don't fall in that category. You may have not been hit on in a while, but don't quit. Just focus on bringing out your best.

 

You sound pretty cool, you'll get a guy to suit your tastes.

[shadowplay]

Interesting development. Was talking to my roommate and apparently this guy IS married and has several kids.

[shadowplay]

Oh, and she mentioned that several of the girls there had problems and even quit because they didn't like how the cooks acted around them.

[carhill]

Sounds about right. Practiced hand. No consequences. Got mama at home.

[Green]

As a man I believe in being very agressive with a girl.

 

I also believe in being very careful not to get accused of sexual harasment at work.

 

Look you gave him a lot of mixed signals. As a man let me tell you girls often flat out tell you no only to get asked out again and later say yes after many no's.

 

You work with him so he really should have toned it down and kept it fun for you...

 

Speak up. It's not to late to tell him you got a boyfriend. Just tell him you met a guy over the weekend and you guys decided to go steady and that you met his family and love them lol.

 

Oh and to all the so called politicaly correct people who called you racist... GROW UP

[shadowplay]

It's not to late to tell him you got a boyfriend. Just tell him you met a guy over the weekend and you guys decided to go steady and that you met his family and love them lol.

 

Ha I might use that one.

[zengirl]

I don't get some of the complaints. You know what: Dating is ageist, and, frankly, classicist. Of course, I take someone's age and "class" (if class includes cultural capital, education, and successes) into consideration when dating them.

 

I don't like racism either, and I don't think I think about it consciously when I date, but I've never really given my Japanese family members (I'm mixed) a hard time about their desire to find a Japanese-American mate. Why should white people have guilt if they prefer to date white folks in general? Everyone has their preferences. As long as they aren't looking to put legal restrictions or discriminate in the workplace, schools, hospitals, etc, about it, I don't care much.

 

Maybe the phrasing was a little much, but, honestly, lots of people like to date someone from their own culture. Just because they "pretty" it up or because they're from a minority culture, why is that acceptable and some aren't?

 

I don't think a 40 year old hitting on a 25 year old woman is "creepy" just from the age difference. Let's just go with the tried and proven formula -- the Seinfeld formula.

 

(Guy's age / 2) + 7 years.

 

Guy is 20 -- should be dating a 17 year old.

 

Guy is 30 -- should be dating a 22 year old.

 

Guy is 40 -- should be dating a 27 year old.

 

Yep, looks good to me.

 

Well, all the men on Seinfeld were kind of creeps (and Elaine was no prize herself) and terrible people, so that doesn't do much to make the point, IMO.

 

I don't want attention from 40 year old men, and most gals in their mid-twenties don't (and no, you don't still look good for your age; in fact, most people who think they look good for their age and younger and use that to hit on younger girls actually look older than my 46 year old step-dad who's happily married to my 50 year old mother!) It's creepy. It's creepy, and I hate it when they approach me. And worst of all, they're usually the guys who won't just go away when you say "No" nicely.

 

That said, I'm not saying there aren't outliers of relationships like that developing naturally. . . but I think most 40-somethings who'd have any interest in hitting on someone who is obviously significantly younger than them are creeps. At least in terms of relationships.

 

A large age difference is a completely different issue than plain unattractiveness is. When a much older man is after me, I worry that he is after me because of a combination of him trying to control me and him trying to turn me into a status symbol. The widest age gap I will date is 10 years, but even then, I've noticed the older the man is the more likely he is to get freaked out when he realizes I am not the type to put up with the man calling all of the shots in the relationship.

 

True that, as well.

 

26? If you looked halfway decent at that age good looking dudes would be at your feet..

 

You must be uglier then you sometimes fear deep down:laugh:

 

Getting asked out is more about cultural capital than pure looks (looks are involved, of course). I'm about the same age, good looking, reasonably confident, and I do get asked out a fair amount (because of said cultural capital), but it's not like good looking dudes throw themselves at my feet. That doesn't happen to anyone but supermodels. And maybe not even them. I know a few gorgeous Korean models, and they hardly ever get asked out (by Western or Korean guys).

 

Certainly rarely by guys anyone actually wants to date. The problem with guys people want to date is that they require specific signals to ask a gal out (hence the cultural capital) unless they're hit by some kind of weird-confident-boost attitude or something about her really strike them, whereas guys that are less desirable are used to rejection and will ask anyone out.

[shadowplay]

Should I just say to him next time he asks: "You're married. I'm not comfortable dating a married man." Seems like a good way out.

[Trimmer]

Should I just say to him next time he asks: "You're married. I'm not comfortable dating a married man." Seems like a good way out.

I'd strengthen it with "I won't date or flirt with a married man." Why soften it with "I'm not comfortable..."? Declare your boundary, firmly. I won't.

 

Caution, however: just make damn sure he's really married, because if your information happens to be wrong and he's not, the way you've stated it here makes it sound like his being married is the primary obstacle. With what you are saying here, he will hear: "If only you weren't married, I'd consider it..."

 

You've really backed yourself into a corner, not giving a straight "No" at the start. If you had done that, you could have said "no" and not have to give any reason better than "I don't want to." Now, if you try to fix that mistake and be honest with him, there's the lingering question of why you said "Yes" and that you'd "think about it..."

 

So yes, at this point the married issue may be your easiest way out, but then how about that single cook that comes up to you next time. Please - for your own sake - be ready to say "no" right from the start...

[carhill]

'Where do you live? I think, if we're going to date, I need to check with your wife first.'

[zengirl]

Should I just say to him next time he asks: "You're married. I'm not comfortable dating a married man." Seems like a good way out.

 

What if he gets divorced? Do you want him to come onto you then, if that day comes? Why not just say, "I'm not interested. Please stop flirting with me." It's not strictly true that the married thing is what bothers you about this interaction.

 

Why so afraid to assert your own feelings?

[threebyfate]

Interesting development. Was talking to my roommate and apparently this guy IS married and has several kids.

Good catch on the creep factor!

[Trimmer]

What if he gets divorced? Do you want him to come onto you then, if that day comes? Why not just say, "I'm not interested. Please stop flirting with me." It's not strictly true that the married thing is what bothers you about this interaction.

 

Why so afraid to assert your own feelings?

Agreed. All issues of race, age, station in life, etc. aside, this is the core issue of this whole situation, and it would have spared you all of this anxiety if you had been able to declare and hold your boundary from the start.

 

If you can do that, you don't have to retroactively come up with excuses about age, creepiness, poor English, general ickiness, and all of that. You can just say "no" and "I'm not interested" and that can be the end of it, IF you can enforce your boundaries.

[Trimmer]

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