jamesum Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 I personally think, on the first date it is impolite if the asker refuses to pay for the date. At least for the main part of the date.
Pink Cupcakes Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 That's too bad you've had such negative experiences. All of the men who have asked me to dinner and I accepted never were like the ones you described. You must have had a bad picker. No, dear. He fixed the PC the next day. I asked him out - he showed he was interested by wanting to spend time with me. Would YOU accept a date with someone you were not interested in? I know men will offer, but it doesn't mean they are interested in anything more than your vagina. I didn't want to have my meal paid for; I am not a child. Trust me, paying for dinner isn't what makes a man manly. Most of the guys who got in a twist over me paying for my own meal only did so because money was all they relied on to impress women. Take it away and you see it clearly. And if all they have going for them is money - they are not my equal. It doesn't have to be a rigid thing. Sometimes I pay for friends and sometimes they pay for me. Or if its a celebration like a bday. When my exhusband and I split, I didn't know what to expect with dating. I'd married so young I never experienced adult dating much. At first, I just went with the flow and mostly men wanted to pay. These men who were all about paying all had something to hide. An awful personality. Expectations of easy sex. Or they were married and used money to try to keep you from asking pesky questions. Anytime a guy threw a fit at me wanting to pay for my own meal got his way; I let them pay. But they never got a second date. I don't say never let someone pay for your meal or always go dutch. Rather, watch out (both men and women) for anyone who insists you pay or insists they pay. Its a good clue that its a game strategy.
zengirl Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 Honestly, a manly man will want to pay, especially on the first date. a wimpy kind of guy isn't going to want to pay for a woman on the first date, even if he asked her out. A man wants to feel like a man. If you want a wimpy, feminine type of guy, then go ahead and insist on paying on the first date, and he'll accept your offer. I don't think it's the wimpy, feminine guys who'd accept. I think it's more the "just want to sleep with her" guys or the "never going to call her again; not that into her" guys. This idea comes from my guy friends and my experience. Note: I'm not saying their aren't exceptions to good guys accepting the offer; I just think they're statistically rare enough not to consider in a general conversation. I like to think I analyze folks as I see them and allow for outliers in my life, of course. I don't say never let someone pay for your meal or always go dutch. Rather, watch out (both men and women) for anyone who insists you pay or insists they pay. Its a good clue that its a game strategy. I agree with this, though I don't count guys who say, "No, I got it" when I offer, because that's sociologically "average" so to speak, especially if they like a girl. I think the average sociology of two normal people on a date goes like this: a) Girl offers money to put in. She feels slight cognitive dissonance because she wants to show she's self-sufficient and considerate, but at the same time, society has ingrained her to note how the boy handles this request and she halfway expects he won't take it. (This is if she likes the guy.) b) Male feels happy if he thinks the offer was sincere, but he feels cognitive dissonance over the idea of not paying and thus tells her that he's got this one. Maybe he mentions she can grab a drink/ice cream/something else, if he's hoping to move to another venue. Or "the next one" (which depending on his own sociology, he may or may not also tell her not to get later; it gets complex, man). (This is if he likes the girl.) c) Girl says that sounds good. d) Boy pays. He's happy because he's potentially set up a "yes" to a new date or furthering of this date, by mentioning the "you get suchandsuch." Most males will choose a "suchandsuch" that costs less. I don't know why. They just do. This is just the pattern I've noted all my life. I am 100% certain there are exceptions.
sally4sara Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 I agree with this, though I don't count guys who say, "No, I got it" when I offer, because that's sociologically "average" so to speak, especially if they like a girl. I think the average sociology of two normal people on a date goes like this: a) Girl offers money to put in. She feels slight cognitive dissonance because she wants to show she's self-sufficient and considerate, but at the same time, society has ingrained her to note how the boy handles this request and she halfway expects he won't take it. (This is if she likes the guy.) b) Male feels happy if he thinks the offer was sincere, but he feels cognitive dissonance over the idea of not paying and thus tells her that he's got this one. Maybe he mentions she can grab a drink/ice cream/something else, if he's hoping to move to another venue. Or "the next one" (which depending on his own sociology, he may or may not also tell her not to get later; it gets complex, man). (This is if he likes the girl.) c) Girl says that sounds good. d) Boy pays. He's happy because he's potentially set up a "yes" to a new date or furthering of this date, by mentioning the "you get suchandsuch." Most males will choose a "suchandsuch" that costs less. I don't know why. They just do. This is just the pattern I've noted all my life. I am 100% certain there are exceptions. Yup; completely. And on the concept of finding someone you really are compatible with, just going with the flow wasn't finding me anything more than a "fill in" guy. Any manner of guy, because it is so common, will likely pay for whatever their motive may be. For this reason, the guy paying doesn't indicate much about himself. Is he kind, manly, someone I can connect with? Who knows anything beyond that they are typical? I personally found out more about a person when I'd get to see how they handle a less usual situation. I found I am most compatible with a person who, in a moment of unfamiliarity, still finds a way to still impress me. These are the resourceful folks and I find that very attractive.
SnowAngel3 Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 (edited) When I first read this thread, I couldn't help but laugh because this issue was precisely one of the major reasons why my ex and I broke up. He was the one who paid for our dates mostly. I was very aware of this, so I definitely never requested that we go to certain restaurants or do certain things that are expensive. I've mostly let him choose where to take us, because I really don't mind what we do as long as we get to spend time together. And for food, I never asked him to take me to classy restaurants or something like that; he always took us to the places he wanted to, like burger joints, fast food places, Applebee's, etc. For dates, I would always try to suggest free things to do like take walks through parks or explore different bridges. Every time he paid for something, I would at least verbally thank him. I was aware that he didn't like to spend much money and neither do I, so I went with him and did things with him that didn't require much money. However, at the time of our breakup, he finally came clean with how much he resented me for not paying much of the time. He even mentioned specific incidents when he hated how I didn't pay. He's been so "calculating" of how much money he spent with me that I wonder how early on in the relationship he started counting the money. I bet he's been so blinded by resentment that he didn't stop and count the things that I did for him. If he were to really "count", he would remember that I kept offering to go dutch with him through the first two months we had been together (we were only together for about five months) and yet he never accepted, so I thought he didn't like it. Also, whenever I did ask him to go to a food place with me, I would pay for it. From time to time, I would also make him these "care packages" that included many snacks and chocolates he enjoyed. I had given him a handmade present for our third "monthiversary". When we go to museums, I would pay for us because the admission price was suggested donation. Also, my mom would sometimes give him some of the food she made. Most of all, he KNEW FROM THE BEGINNING that I am a college student without a job while he is a working professional. He was completely aware of the financial limitations I have. I guess he was just too self-centered to be considerate and think about things from my perspective. Thank goodness I have already sent him back every gift he ever gave me before he even asked me to, to show him how much I am not the gold digger he thinks I am. Edited July 31, 2010 by SnowAngel3
Sphere Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 I'll pay for the first date, but after that I'm splitting the bill straight down the middle on the second and third dates. It weeds out those looking for a free meal ticket because I guarantee after going dutch on the second date with a free-loader, you'll never hear from her again. It will take a special woman for me to even consider paying for all of the dates. I work hard for my money and I don't see why I should be spending my money on a woman I hardly know and a woman who hasn't earned my respect.
denise_xo Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 LADIES- do you expect a man to pay for every date? how would you feel if he asked if you were going to pay for something? Would you feel like hes cheap if he didnt want to pay for something, or that hes a jerk if he expects you to? Is being cheap a serious offense? Should paying be more equal? How would you feel about paying for a date, assuming you arent broke? If you expect him to always pay, are there things you would expect to pay for evenly? Is there a certain point where you'd be comfortable freely sharing your money and being more of an equal? Sound off! No, I would never expect a man to pay and always insist on sharing (and tell men I feel uncomfortable if we don't, although I appreciate the gesture). I don't understand why they are supposed to pick up the bill in the first place.
GordonDarkfoot Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 If chivalry is not yet dead, I'm in favor of killing it off, once and for all. What an archaic concept. As far as I'm concerned, the woman should pay for the date, happily; and follow it up with a session of totally gratuitous, hot & nasty sexy time. Every girl who really digs a guy has no problem with paying, in fact, I've seen many guys who are very successful with women, where the gfs treat them like sultans and act like servants around them. Are you kidding me? We all know that the same women who are splitting hairs about who pays and when, will empty their bank accounts for a guy they're head over heels for. The problem is when these same women become totally disillusioned and cynical and start taking it out on the rest of us. Silly really, to argue about whether a woman should pay for herself on a date, when we all know there are plenty of girls who would not think twice about sucking the guy off in the bathroom stall. Maybe some of the latter are even here posting on LS??? A little honesty, ladies? You ever do something really crazy sexually while out on a date with a guy? If so, why are you giving any thought to notions of chivalry or "who pays"?
kdark Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 If chivalry is not yet dead, I'm in favor of killing it off, once and for all. What an archaic concept. As far as I'm concerned, the woman should pay for the date, happily; and follow it up with a session of totally gratuitous, hot & nasty sexy time. Every girl who really digs a guy has no problem with paying, in fact, I've seen many guys who are very successful with women, where the gfs treat them like sultans and act like servants around them. Are you kidding me? We all know that the same women who are splitting hairs about who pays and when, will empty their bank accounts for a guy they're head over heels for. The problem is when these same women become totally disillusioned and cynical and start taking it out on the rest of us. Silly really, to argue about whether a woman should pay for herself on a date, when we all know there are plenty of girls who would not think twice about sucking the guy off in the bathroom stall. Maybe some of the latter are even here posting on LS??? A little honesty, ladies? You ever do something really crazy sexually while out on a date with a guy? If so, why are you giving any thought to notions of chivalry or "who pays"? What does paying for a date have to do with what a woman does sexually on a date?
GordonDarkfoot Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 What does paying for a date have to do with what a woman does sexually on a date? I guess you don't know what the term "chivalry" means.
kdark Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 I guess you don't know what the term "chivalry" means. Well enlighten me. Are you saying when a guy pays for a date he should expect a sexual favor in return? Isn't that prostitution?
NeoGen85 Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 "Chivalry is dead and women killed it." - Dave Chappelle It's funny so don't take me or him seriously. lol
jamesum Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 Sally4Sara sounds like a very sophisticated woman. Where can I find women like you?
GordonDarkfoot Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 Well enlighten me. Are you saying when a guy pays for a date he should expect a sexual favor in return? Isn't that prostitution? "Chivalry" is when a guy protects a woman from all men except himself.
sally4sara Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 "Chivalry" is when a guy protects a woman from all men except himself. Wrong. Look it up. Or go back a few pages; it was given.
Angel1111 Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 This question never seems to die. If a man expected me to pay for a date, I would pay and never see him again. This is why I like older men - this question about who pays doesn't come up. And they would be insulted if it did. Men who don't want to pay for dates is a child who wants a mommy. You can talk about this all day long, year after year, but this one thing says it all about a man. It's the woman's choice as to whether she wants this kind of person in her life or not.
sally4sara Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 This question never seems to die. If a man expected me to pay for a date, I would pay and never see him again. This is why I like older men - this question about who pays doesn't come up. And they would be insulted if it did. Men who don't want to pay for dates is a child who wants a mommy. You can talk about this all day long, year after year, but this one thing says it all about a man. It's the woman's choice as to whether she wants this kind of person in her life or not. So would women who expect their meals paid for also be children wanting a new daddy?
Angel1111 Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 (edited) So would women who expect their meals paid for also be children wanting a new daddy? If the reasons for my position aren't already obvious to you, then I'm not going to explain it. If you like things that way, then go for it. Edited August 1, 2010 by Angel1111
sally4sara Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 I'm not going to explain it to you or defend my position. If you like it that way, go for it. I found money to be the MMs key to a willing AP's heart. What have you found? Bueller? Anyone? Bueller?
Untouchable_Fire Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 I found money to be the MMs key to a willing AP's heart. What have you found? Bueller? Anyone? Bueller? Oh snap... that one HAS to sting. Not often you see someone get called out for having a price tag! I guess for some people any CEO willing to drop cash will suffice... regardless of whether he is already married.
GordonDarkfoot Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 Wrong. Look it up. Or go back a few pages; it was given. Look, "sally." I wasn't directing my response to you, but rather, to the other poster who asked me a question. You don't need to be so obnoxious. Or maybe you do.
Sphere Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 (edited) This question never seems to die. If a man expected me to pay for a date, I would pay and never see him again. This is why I like older men - this question about who pays doesn't come up. And they would be insulted if it did. Men who don't want to pay for dates is a child who wants a mommy. You can talk about this all day long, year after year, but this one thing says it all about a man. It's the woman's choice as to whether she wants this kind of person in her life or not. It's this sense of entitlement that angers most men. You haven't earned the right for me to even consider paying for your backside for every date and yet you expect it and worse, you demand it. I would be glad never to see women like you again. I pay for the first date, if it goes well and the woman wishes to carry on seeing me, she has to pay her way to. I'm not being a sugar daddy for no gold digger, or self entitled moronic bimbo. I work hard for my money, you don't and until you have earned my trust, my respect and my warmth you'll receive not a penny of it spent on you except for the first date. If I was to get into a serious relationship with someone, I would will happily pay, but then I'd expect her to contribute to the relationship financially too. If she doesn't, she is a free loader and I'll bolt faster than you can imagine. Edited August 1, 2010 by Sphere
SassyKitten Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 What worries me about this whole thing about men paying for women and women letting them, whether we're talking about the first date or for living expenses once married, it reinforces the status quo of women being at the mercy of men! Ladies, we're adults too. It's about time we started acting like adults and not like little girls stuck in Never-Never Land.
Sophia8 Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 Personally I do not expect/do not want a guy to pay for me when we go on dates, when the bill arrives I always pay half even though sometimes I do shock the guy by doing this. I have found that it's a lot more difficult if dating an older guy or someone in the military as they seem to expect to pay for you. If I'm in a proper relationship with someone then we either half it or I pay some times and he pays other times. But then each to there own!
jamesum Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 What worries me about this whole thing about men paying for women and women letting them, whether we're talking about the first date or for living expenses once married, it reinforces the status quo of women being at the mercy of men! Indeed, money has been a collar around women's necks for thousands of years.
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