summerl0vesyou Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 Okay, i have a topic id like to discuss. GUYS- do you feel like you should pay for every date? Once you are in a relationship, would you want your gf to pay once in a while? expect her to? when would you no longer feel obligated to pay? Do you feel like theres a certain point where it should be equal or nonimportant? What is that point? Would you feel like a woman only wants your money if she expects you to pay for every date? LADIES- do you expect a man to pay for every date? how would you feel if he asked if you were going to pay for something? Would you feel like hes cheap if he didnt want to pay for something, or that hes a jerk if he expects you to? Is being cheap a serious offense? Should paying be more equal? How would you feel about paying for a date, assuming you arent broke? If you expect him to always pay, are there things you would expect to pay for evenly? Is there a certain point where you'd be comfortable freely sharing your money and being more of an equal? Sound off!
zengirl Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 LADIES- do you expect a man to pay for every date? No. I don't even expect him to pay for the first date. I will say, most of the guys I've dated did pick up most of the tabs early on (though I'd often pick up something; i.e. they'd get dinner, I'd get the drink afterwards). That doesn't mean they treated me to huge, fancy dinners. I don't actually like huge, fancy dinners. That said: I've never met a decent man (personally) looking for a serious relationship who didn't actively want and insist upon paying for the first date (My male friends agree with this idea, FWIW). I'm not claiming the two are related, but that they more commonly coincide (statistically), so I do think a good guy, looking for a serious relationship sets himself up to fall into the wrong pile if he doesn't actively want to pay on the first date. This is a sociological thing that can certainly be changed, but it wasn't with my generation so far as I can see---great guys seem to enjoy and take pride in paying (or so they tell me) for a girl they really like. how would you feel if he asked if you were going to pay for something? Would you feel like hes cheap if he didnt want to pay for something, or that hes a jerk if he expects you to? Honestly, as I said above, I'd feel like he didn't like me much. I always offer to pay. It's almost always declined, especially in early dates. Then, you begin to develop a back-and-forth, as you go towards couple-dom. Is being cheap a serious offense? For me, it's a serious offense to be serious about money in any way -- that includes cheapness on one scale or liking to show off materially on the other. I think a healthy attitude towards money is, "Everybody needs it. I have enough to support myself. I want enough to do the things I enjoy." Cheap people don't have that attitude. But neither do a lot of the boys who throw around their money for a $200 dinner. Should paying be more equal? When I was in a relationship, it became more about who made more. When I was doing very well, I dated a man who was barely scraping by. I paid for things and didn't think about it. Then, I dated someone who was at roughly the same level of success (He made more money, but I saved better in general) and we both paid sometimes. When I went back to graduate school, he started paying for a bit more, because he still had the tastes for more expensive things to-do and they weren't in my budget. I had no desire for $900 3rd-row Radiohead tickets from eBay and would've been content with the nosebleed seats, but he wanted them, and I certainly couldn't afford half. How would you feel about paying for a date, assuming you arent broke? I've paid for an entire date before. (Never on a first date.) I don't take issue with it, assuming we're doing something I can afford. Is there a certain point where you'd be comfortable freely sharing your money and being more of an equal? I wouldn't be complete "freely sharing" of my money (or his) unless we were married. I've gotten pretty close when I was cohabitating. I think it's just important to have a healthy attitude towards money. But I don't know exactly what you mean by this question. I am always an equal. I am not my money, and he is not his money. I don't live in a world where people are their net worths or their expenditures.
purgatori Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 Was chivalry ever alive? Answer = no. Chivalry is a myth; unless you consider thousands (at least) of years of female subjugation at the hands of men to be 'chivalry.'
kalikula Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 So far in my dating experience I've always had to pay my share (or occasionally just cover it and he'll get the next one). But I've never really had a guy pay *for* me. I guess it's because I'm only 21 and all the guys I have dated have been students, and I've had a tiny bit more money than them. However, I wouldn't mind the guy paying for our dates ha! If we start officially dating I assume we'd split most things sort of. Being cheap is kind of a turnoff, being smart with money is fine though.
donnamaybe Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 Was chivalry ever alive? Answer = no. Chivalry is a myth; unless you consider thousands (at least) of years of female subjugation at the hands of men to be 'chivalry.' THANK YOU! I don't understand women who want equality and then want so-called "chivalry" (which REALLY means $$$) from a man.
Mr White Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 Was chivalry ever alive? Answer = no. Chivalry is a myth; unless you consider thousands (at least) of years of female subjugation at the hands of men to be 'chivalry.' A-ha! Chivalry = the beneficial stuff from the past we selectively liked. Derivation: drooling over chivalry = admitting that things weren't that bad
zengirl Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 I paid little attention to the title in my first reply, but since y'all are talking about chivalry. It had little to do with courtesy or custom to women and more to do with stuff like war than stuff like love. It's association with "courtly love" was only passing.
Sanman Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 While I do pay foe initial dates because many women find it a turn off otherwise, I rarely agree with the sentiment. Chivalry occurred in a time when men were paid significantly better for being men and professionals. Men also kept misstresses and were allowed to be chauvinists. If that type of society returns I am all for chivalry. But, I am a recent graduate into a female dominated field and it has caused pay to go downward regardless of sex. Plus, jobs are harder to find due to competition. Now, to be clear, I have no problem treating a gf and picking up the tab. However, the nature of dating has changed in the past 50 years and I can't afford to pick up the tab for every woman who I think is cute to simply find we lack chemistry or are incompatible
Lishy Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 If I went on a first date and a guy let me pay, he would not get a second date! Cheapness is sooo not cool ... after that its even stevens in my book ... well maybe the guy should pay a bit more than the girl should
sally4sara Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 I'm always amazed at the crap that comes out over this topic. I'll be "chivalrous" if we go back to men getting paid more again and it becomes acceptable to keep a mistress? I am an independent female who would make a great catch - for someone looking to raise a child. Chivalry was the devotion of platonic love by a knight to a woman he had no romantic involvement with. "In addition to loyalty and honor, the chivalric virtues included valor, piety, courtesy, and chastity. Questions of love and honor were combined in the ethos of courtly love. The knight's lady was meant to be unobtainable, ensuring chastity." So talking of who pays for dinner and comparing it to chivalry is inaccurate. Men pay for dinner when they want to court a woman for sex/sexual relationships. It is never a gesture of chivalry. It is a painted transaction.
robdrm32 Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 The way I view chivalry is a combination of platonic, and romantic. I'll hold a door open for any woman, I don't care if she is attractive or not and i'll make it a point to hold a door for them up until about 15-20 feet away, then i'd just feel like i'm trying too hard. I will say i've noticed that younger women are the least likely to say thank-you in my experience. I'll always pay for dates because I want to, I don't feel obligated. It's nice to see a girl offer to pay, but I won't allow it unless we are together and/or it's something she wants to do. But i still like to be the one that usually pays. The way I see it, I try to be chivalrous because i'm looking for a real, long term relationship. I want to show women that i'm looking to take care of them if we are together. It's just how i'm wired really. Like when a boat sinks and they load the life rafts its "women and children first!"
spookie Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 I don't get why people make such a big fcking deal about who pays. If you can't afford to treat someone to dinner, you shouldn't be going out to restaurants. If you can't afford to buy the food to cook a dinner for two, you shouldn't be dating.
Woggle Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 I am chivalrous towards my wife and women I am friends with but other than that I feel I am being taken advantage of.
spookie Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 I am chivalrous towards my wife and women I am friends with but other than that I feel I am being taken advantage of. Oh, please. I'd be hardpressed to find anyone who'd trade 3-5 hours of their life (between getting ready and the actual date) for a dinner, if she wasn't interested. Maybe it's not 50/50 immediately but in my experience every relationship is some give, some take; that's the whole point; it evens out. Dating someone is expressing faith that there will come a day when they'll get you back (if you paid for the first couple of dinners).
Woggle Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 Not just that but holding doors and carrying heavy stuff. I feel like women usually look at men as dumb muscle and I will never do heavy lifting for a woman I do not know.
Sanman Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 If we are talking chivalry in general, then I always hold doors for people, hail cabs for women I am with, or make sure they get in safe if they are with me. The OP asked specifically about paying for dates. I have been called one of the kindest and generous men several of my friends and gfs have ever met. I have not problem buying gifts or spending money on a serious relationship because I love my partner. It is dating I dislike paying for. However, I view a relationship as a partnership of equals where each partner should contribute equally. I'm always amazed at the crap that comes out over this topic. I'll be "chivalrous" if we go back to men getting paid more again and it becomes acceptable to keep a mistress? I am an independent female who would make a great catch - for someone looking to raise a child. My point was that you should not expect one archaic concept when you dislike others. Nowadays, people marry for love, not just financial security. I am independent professional would make a great father and is a great catch as well. Why should I shoulder a burden that my partner (supposedly an equal) does not. Let's do some math shall we: I dated about 25 women in the past year with an average of two dates 25 x 2 = 50 An average date (conservative estimate) = $50 $50 x 50 dates = $2500 annually Let's say I do this for 3 years before meeting my wife ( though it will be more) $2500 x 3 = $7500 The $3750 I would have saved going dutch is a significant savings that a woman does not have if she CHOOSES not to pay (and she can choose). I would like to save that money for myself and future loved ones. MAybe for a house or a car. WHy should I be asked to forgo that simply to see if a women has any potential as a partner. I don't get why people make such a big fcking deal about who pays. If you can't afford to treat someone to dinner, you shouldn't be going out to restaurants. If you can't afford to buy the food to cook a dinner for two, you shouldn't be dating. The above is why it is a big deal. No one tells a woman she shouldn't date if she has no money. Of course I ask women out as the guy, that doesn't mean that they do not approach me and expect to be asked or contact me first online. What about if I have a planned eating venue with a budget and they want to go elsewhere that is more expensive? Do I state to them that we can only eat at the venue I chose and they have no say since I asked them out and am paying? SHow me a woman sho agrees with that. Men used to picke the place order for their date in those days. No chance of being stuck with a bill for lobster and champagne.
WintersNightTraveler Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 I pay and I don't care. If she wants to pay, that's fine too. My priority is that it not be a big deal either way. Usually that means reaching for the check.
spookie Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 If we are talking chivalry in general, then I always hold doors for people, hail cabs for women I am with, or make sure they get in safe if they are with me. The OP asked specifically about paying for dates. I have been called one of the kindest and generous men several of my friends and gfs have ever met. I have not problem buying gifts or spending money on a serious relationship because I love my partner. It is dating I dislike paying for. However, I view a relationship as a partnership of equals where each partner should contribute equally. My point was that you should not expect one archaic concept when you dislike others. Nowadays, people marry for love, not just financial security. I am independent professional would make a great father and is a great catch as well. Why should I shoulder a burden that my partner (supposedly an equal) does not. Let's do some math shall we: I dated about 25 women in the past year with an average of two dates 25 x 2 = 50 An average date (conservative estimate) = $50 $50 x 50 dates = $2500 annually Let's say I do this for 3 years before meeting my wife ( though it will be more) $2500 x 3 = $7500 The $3750 I would have saved going dutch is a significant savings that a woman does not have if she CHOOSES not to pay (and she can choose). I would like to save that money for myself and future loved ones. MAybe for a house or a car. WHy should I be asked to forgo that simply to see if a women has any potential as a partner. The above is why it is a big deal. No one tells a woman she shouldn't date if she has no money. Of course I ask women out as the guy, that doesn't mean that they do not approach me and expect to be asked or contact me first online. What about if I have a planned eating venue with a budget and they want to go elsewhere that is more expensive? Do I state to them that we can only eat at the venue I chose and they have no say since I asked them out and am paying? SHow me a woman sho agrees with that. Men used to picke the place order for their date in those days. No chance of being stuck with a bill for lobster and champagne. Meh.... the women have higher expenses that go toward keeping them up to par with current beauty standards. I bet all your dates looked and smelled nice when you asked them out and went out with them... you think lipsticks are free?? And 25 women per year? That's a lot of women. Maybe you should be more choosy about whom you go out with.
Mr White Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 Meh.... the women have higher expenses that go toward keeping them up to par with current beauty standards. I bet all your dates looked and smelled nice when you asked them out and went out with them... you think lipsticks are free?? And 25 women per year? That's a lot of women. Maybe you should be more choosy about whom you go out with. I spend a lot of money on good suits, gym membership, everything is clean and pressed, and girls like it. now what? (I'm still buying dinner:rolleyes:). I didn't realize a women who didn't look like she rolled out of bed was doing ME a favor:rolleyes:. Thanks for the enlightenment.
DadofTwoGirls Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 I have gone out on 6 dates with 3 different women since my separation 4 months ago, I paid for 3, they paid for 3, they all want to pay for the next date, but I feel awkward letting a woman pay even though my friends say let them..I guess it depends how you feel and if they have a good paying job..I did pay for the first dates with each woman and would have paid if I wanted a second date with them also...I'm kinda shallow so I would always pay if they were better looking:lmao:..and NEVER GO ON A BLIND DATE:p
kdark Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 Meh.... the women have higher expenses that go toward keeping them up to par with current beauty standards. I bet all your dates looked and smelled nice when you asked them out and went out with them... you think lipsticks are free?? And 25 women per year? That's a lot of women. Maybe you should be more choosy about whom you go out with. Come on now... That is a requirement that you put on yourself. The amount you spend to make yourself look good is all on you. And you have a tangible benefit when you spend money making yourself look good that can be used outside of dating. A man spending money for dinner dates is useless outside of dating. I'm not saying the amount men and women spend making themselves look good is the same, but the money women spend can be used elsewhere.
Phateless Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 Okay, i have a topic id like to discuss. GUYS- do you feel like you should pay for every date? Once you are in a relationship, would you want your gf to pay once in a while? expect her to? when would you no longer feel obligated to pay? Do you feel like theres a certain point where it should be equal or nonimportant? What is that point? Would you feel like a woman only wants your money if she expects you to pay for every date? LADIES- do you expect a man to pay for every date? how would you feel if he asked if you were going to pay for something? Would you feel like hes cheap if he didnt want to pay for something, or that hes a jerk if he expects you to? Is being cheap a serious offense? Should paying be more equal? How would you feel about paying for a date, assuming you arent broke? If you expect him to always pay, are there things you would expect to pay for evenly? Is there a certain point where you'd be comfortable freely sharing your money and being more of an equal? Sound off! Do you consider yourself a feminist? Equal rights means equal responsibilities. If you expect to make the same money you should expect to spend the same. That's fair, right? If I'M the one who asked HER out on the first date, I will volunteer to pay. On subsequent dates I think we should alternate. I'll get dinner and she gets the drinks, or something to that effect. Doesn't have to be split down the middle but I would expect to date a successful woman who can pull her own weight. I want an equal partner, not some little trophy girl.
alphamale Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 GUYS- do you feel like you should pay for every date? i like to pay for every date cause it gives me a sense of control and power and it also makes the girl indebted to me. once in a relationship i expect her to pay once in a while.
neowulf Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 I want an equal partner, not some little trophy girl. +1 That pretty much sums up my position. Women fought for equality. This is what equality means.
SassyKitten Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 To me, "chivalry" feels like a hangover from when women never had to grow up and were second-class. The only reason I would let a guy pay for dinner on the first date is because it is tradition, so it's a measure of how much he is into me, though I would make an exception on this if he's a student like me or if he comes from a culture like Sweden where it's normal for things to be split. That said, it is completely my style to get the drinks if we go out afterwards. As for the holding doors open thing, I have always found that to be weird for as long as I can remember. Sure, I may need a man to carry extremely heavy bags of groceries for me, but I'm perfectly capable of opening my own door.
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