Can a cheater change?

July 28, 2010

Hi Everyone,

I must confess that before this experience I used to always view OW/OM and cheaters as people that put themselves in terrible situations and deserve their tormented outcomes.

But....I met a guy a year ago, we went out on a date and he was honest enough to tell me that he has a 4 yr old son and is separated with the baby momma, but he was also honest enough to say that the door isn't totally closed on their relationship.

Since I liked him, I didn't really want to date him and invest in him if the possibility of him getting back with ex was likely enough for him to be honest about it.

We became friends and hung out, we made out a few times, but I never slept with him.

He got back together with the ex on New years and we remained friends, but it was really flirty and I didn't realize it at the time, but it was some sort of emotional affair. Given what I said in my first paragraph, I never thought I'd ever be the girl to make out with and do a bit of fooling around with a guy that's taken, but that's what happened.

I've tried so many ways, to put restrictions on our friendship, to stop the kissing, to even just limit it to platonic emails, but nothing works, we both feel that the chemistry/connection we have is off the charts and its like nothing either one of us has felt before. I'd also like to add that its not just the physical stuff, WE JUST CLICK, so much, I know that if we were to date we'd work out so well.

He confessed that he loved me, shortly after he got back with the ex. I love him. He says that he's mainly there for the kid and he never talks bad about his gf, he says that they have a history together since they've been together for 8 yrs or so. So I understand why he's doing what he's doing, that's why I'm trying to distance myself, but its hard.

He has been honest with me about so much, including the fact that he's cheated on her a bunch of times before, but those times were just sex and he never got emotionally involved. He's emotionally involved with me and confesses that I "make him feel the way he always thought love should be, and that being with her is a glaring contrast"

I can't push him or manipulate him into leaving, and i dont want to even if I could, because he has a kid, so I'm trying to distance myself now because I feel so much hurt because I love him like I've never loved anyone else (even when I was in love with others)

My question is this: since he's been known to cheat on her, if he ever left her and we got together, does it necessarily mean that he'd cheat on me?

I used to always think, "if he cheats on someone with u, he'd cheat on u with someone else' - but I dunno this situation seems different.

We haven't slept together, we just connect so well, and we have love for each other, and an amazing chemistry. I'm really confused.

Sorry for the very long post. I'd greatly appreciate any advice and/or personal stories that will help me put things into prespective.

Thanks so much!

July 28, 2010

So he has cheated before, but only sexually, and is now in an EA.

I'm assuming there is sexual tension already and, before long, EA will transform into PA.

IMO, EA's thrive from the underlying sexual tension and the fact that the "act" is yet to happen. That's an unconscious process. That's part of the reason you are so drawn to each other.

What's going to happen IF he leaves her?

He'll be in an R with you and look for the thrill elsewhere. My opinion.

And even if not, you'll always have it in the back of your head that he might cheat on you.

Once a cheater, always a cheater? I think so, in most of the cases. As soon as the "reformed" cheater gets a chance to cheat again, he takes it. Cheating is like a drug, and unless the cheater recognizes that, he won't change.

For them, greener pastures are out there. Everywhere.

And they will find a way to justify why they had to try them all out.

July 28, 2010

So he has cheated before, but only sexually, and is now in an EA.
I'm assuming there is sexual tension already and, before long, EA will transform into PA.
IMO, EA's thrive from the underlying sexual tension and the fact that the "act" is yet to happen. That's an unconscious process. That's part of the reason you are so drawn to each other.
What's going to happen IF he leaves her?
He'll be in an R with you and look for the thrill elsewhere. My opinion.
And even if not, you'll always have it in the back of your head that he might cheat on you.
Once a cheater, always a cheater? I think so, in most of the cases. As soon as the "reformed" cheater gets a chance to cheat again, he takes it. Cheating is like a drug, and unless the cheater recognizes that, he won't change.
For them, greener pastures are out there. Everywhere.
And they will find a way to justify why they had to try them all out.

Thanks so much for your opinion Minnie. Everything you said is exactly what I think about, and since this is sooooo new to me, I just dont have any answers, except for the EA becoming a PA. I know for sure (even tho I recognize that I slipped in other ways before) that I wont let that happen. That's why I'm creating the distance between us now.

I realize that a lot of people will just say that eventually I'll give in, but I know myself enough to know that I'd end up hating myself if I gave in and let him have that while he's still with her.

Other than that, everything you mentioned is exactly all I think about.

Thanks again

July 28, 2010

A serial cheater (like your married boyfriend), NO, they cannot change unless they have some sort of deep spiritual intervention.

A person who did it once, made a HUGE "oops" and confessed, then yes, they can change

You do realize IF he left his wife for you, he would cheat on you, right?

You have to ask yourself if you're cool with that.

July 28, 2010

I do not believe once a cheater, always a cheater. Not at all. However, your post and how you described this guy, and the fact that he got back with his wife he was properly separated from AFTER meeting you and "falling in love with you" at the time, that is throwing up serious red flags for me that indicate that he might not be one to change.

A lot of times the only way to get over someone is no contact, for a period of time. Maybe not forever, but at least as long as you were in contact. If that's what you want.

Good luck.

July 28, 2010

A serial cheater (like your married boyfriend), NO, they cannot change unless they have some sort of deep spiritual intervention.
A person who did it once, made a HUGE "oops" and confessed, then yes, they can change

You do realize IF he left his wife for you, he would cheat on you, right?
You have to ask yourself if you're cool with that.

That's what I think too. I think well if he cheated on her a bunch of times, he'd cheat on me - but then I think he never really loved her (according to him, he's never felt love like he does with me) - I SO REALIZE HOW NAIVE I SOUND FOR SAYING THAT OR BELIEVING IT...If I was on the outside lookin in I'd think that's dumb, but sometimes I think 'What if, its true, what if he never really loved her but we found each other and we connect like neither one of us has felt before!" - He doesn't really have a reason to lie about that with me, because its been a year and I haven't slept with him, he knows its not going to happen, so if that was his game, its the dumbest game ever - that's what I also find confusing.

But I dunno, i just keep flip flopping, mostly because my emotions are involved and maybe I try to believe what I want to.

I'm very confused.

Thanks for the response

July 28, 2010

I do not believe once a cheater, always a cheater. Not at all. However, your post and how you described this guy, and the fact that he got back with his wife he was properly separated from AFTER meeting you and "falling in love with you" at the time, that is throwing up serious red flags for me that indicate that he might not be one to change.

A lot of times the only way to get over someone is no contact, for a period of time. Maybe not forever, but at least as long as you were in contact. If that's what you want.

Good luck.

Well we had only known each other for a little over 3 months when he got back with her, so I can see why he chose to go back, he was with her for 8 years and they have a child. He told me that he loved me after. But I totally see your point.

I'm doing the NC thing right now and I'm not putting my life on hold. Yes I do love him, but I'm still dating others and hoping to find someone that will be a good fit and that I can have a healthy relationship with. The NC hasn't been going on for long yet, and obviously cuz I love him, he's on my mind a lot. But I'm trying to stay strong and def not put my life on hold cuz of him.

I was just thinking what if he left her....

Thanks for the reply

EDIT: Not that it matters much, she's not technically his wife, and they were never properly separated. she was just a gf and they were broken up for about 7 months or so. It really doesn't make much difference to me. I refer to her as his 'wife' when I talk to him...but I just wanted to clarify it here

Edited July 28, 2010 by TigerCub
added note

July 28, 2010

That's what I think too. I think well if he cheated on her a bunch of times, he'd cheat on me - but then I think he never really loved her (according to him, he's never felt love like he does with me) - I SO REALIZE HOW NAIVE I SOUND FOR SAYING THAT OR BELIEVING IT...If I was on the outside lookin in I'd think that's dumb, but sometimes I think 'What if, its true, what if he never really loved her but we found each other and we connect like neither one of us has felt before!" - He doesn't really have a reason to lie about that with me, because its been a year and I haven't slept with him, he knows its not going to happen, so if that was his game, its the dumbest game ever - that's what I also find confusing.

But I dunno, i just keep flip flopping, mostly because my emotions are involved and maybe I try to believe what I want to.

I'm very confused.

Thanks for the response

Cheating is not about love. He may love you more than life, but his urges to cheat won't be stopped because he loves.

He cheats because he's got mental and /of emotional issues that can only be solved with some serious therapy.

Healthy, normal, truly loving people do not act the way he does.

Get away from him before you heart is ripped out of your chest.

People like this are dangerous. Keep reading on this site. There are people who post here who are like this guy and you can see how ruthless they are.

If you want to be healthy, stick with healthy people

July 28, 2010

Cheating is not about love. He may love you more than life, but his urges to cheat won't be stopped because he loves.
He cheats because he's got mental and /of emotional issues that can only be solved with some serious therapy.
Healthy, normal, truly loving people do not act the way he does.

Get away from him before you heart is ripped out of your chest.
People like this are dangerous. Keep reading on this site. There are people who post here who are like this guy and you can see how ruthless they are.

If you want to be healthy, stick with healthy people

You're so right. Its so remarkable, how when emotions are involved logic get so clouded sometimes. I logically know that cheating isn't really about not being in a loving relationship.

I dunno, I just think cuz I've never cheated on anyone, and I'd certainly never cheat on anyone I love, that love has something to do with it in this case, but you're so right, I know it doesn't.

And if he really was that unhappy with her, why would he have stayed for 8 years and had a kid with her?.

I just need to keep reading here and get my logic to outweigh my emotions.

Thanks

July 28, 2010

I believe that cheaters can change. But, your guy really does sound like a serial cheater - he seems to lack conscience for what he has done/is doing to his partner. His motivation seems to be all about HIS needs.

I sincerely doubt that he 'never really loved her'; don't you think that's kinda a vague statement? Like, 'Well, you know... a little bit...'? He says what he says because he thinks that's what you want to hear... that's what it will take for you to allow him in. He has not closed the door on the relationship with his child's mother - there is not reason for this to be the case unless he genuinely cares for her. Although, it's clear the person he cares for most is himself.

You seriously need to think about whether you actually want him or not. I don't mean the connection you have, or the way you feel when you're with him... thats probably speaks for itself; I mean the 'him' that has existed in the relationship with his... partner? ex-partner? The man that cheats? The man that puts himself first?

For a serial-cheater to change it takes far, far more than just meeting the right person. The change has to be within them, and it has to be dramatic, otherwise he'll always have the same sexual compulsion.

If he wants you and truly loves you he'll move mountains to be with you. But, this sounds like a man who is only out to fulfil his own desires.

Tiger, tread carefully, please. The thicker you are in this situation, the harder it is to pull yourself out. You deserve better than to be somebody's 'bit on the side'.

What does your gut say, honestly?

July 28, 2010

He has been honest with me about so much, including the fact that he's cheated on her a bunch of times before, but those times were just sex and he never got emotionally involved.

If he has a history of cheating on his EX then he will have a history of cheating on you. His actions clearly indicate he doesn't respect boundaries when he is in a relationship.

My question is this: since he's been known to cheat on her, if he ever left her and we got together, does it necessarily mean that he'd cheat on me?

Look at his past actions - (not words) - to find your answer.

We haven't slept together, we just connect so well, and we have love for each other, and an amazing chemistry. I'm really confused.

I would be very very cautious letting this man into your life considering his past actions. He may end up breaking your heart. I guess it is up to you to decide if you are willing to take that chance.

July 28, 2010

The reason why "cheaters" usually keep doing what they're doing is that they are not too introspective. If they were, they would understand that what they're doing results from unresolved issues that are buried deep down inside of them. That doesn't mean that they are bad people, they are just not willing to look at the root of the problem. Most of them will justify their own behavior by blaming the SO, or telling themselves that they are attracted to somebody else for a good reason. But they won't identify the real cause.

Ever. Unless they develop a sense of self-analysis. Until then, their affairs are caused by something outside of themselves. That's what they believe.

July 28, 2010

I believe that cheaters can change. But, your guy really does sound like a serial cheater - he seems to lack conscience for what he has done/is doing to his partner. His motivation seems to be all about HIS needs.

I sincerely doubt that he 'never really loved her'; don't you think that's kinda a vague statement? Like, 'Well, you know... a little bit...'? He says what he says because he thinks that's what you want to hear... that's what it will take for you to allow him in. He has not closed the door on the relationship with his child's mother - there is not reason for this to be the case unless he genuinely cares for her. Although, it's clear the person he cares for most is himself.

You seriously need to think about whether you actually want him or not. I don't mean the connection you have, or the way you feel when you're with him... thats probably speaks for itself; I mean the 'him' that has existed in the relationship with his... partner? ex-partner? The man that cheats? The man that puts himself first?

For a serial-cheater to change it takes far, far more than just meeting the right person. The change has to be within them, and it has to be dramatic, otherwise he'll always have the same sexual compulsion.

If he wants you and truly loves you he'll move mountains to be with you. But, this sounds like a man who is only out to fulfil his own desires.

Tiger, tread carefully, please. The thicker you are in this situation, the harder it is to pull yourself out. You deserve better than to be somebody's 'bit on the side'.

What does your gut say, honestly?

Thanks Hazyhead

U bring up all the good points that I myself think about.

As far as him 'never really loved her' - I didn't realize that I wrote that. He never said that. He said that they have a history and there is love. He did say that he's never felt love like he does with me (which could so obviously be a line)

As far as what I honestly think...I obviously have a LOT of doubt about him because he is a serial cheater and because I've never walked down this path before.

I do think I need to stick to my NC and keep my options open to finding someone better. Its just really hard (as I'm sure anyone can understand - when you love someone so much).

I dont want to be with a cheater, I dont really want to be with someone with so much baggage, but I do love him. BUT I'm hoping that having this time apart will give me room to breathe and get a better view on things and be able to move on. I dont want to be in love with someone that's not available to me, and someone that may never change their cheating ways.

That's mainly why I started this thread - to get some answers that will help motivate me to see things clearly.

Thanks so much

July 28, 2010

If he has a history of cheating on his EX then he will have a history of cheating on you. His actions clearly indicate he doesn't respect boundaries when he is in a relationship.

Look at his past actions - (not words) - to find your answer.

I would be very very cautious letting this man into your life considering his past actions. He may end up breaking your heart. I guess it is up to you to decide if you are willing to take that chance.

Thanks YellowShark for your advice. I think getting the views here just reinforces what I know deep down, but dismiss because of my feelings. This is really helping me look at things objectively.

Thanks

July 28, 2010

The reason why "cheaters" usually keep doing what they're doing is that they are not too introspective. If they were, they would understand that what they're doing results from unresolved issues that are buried deep down inside of them. That doesn't mean that they are bad people, they are just not willing to look at the root of the problem. Most of them will justify their own behavior by blaming the SO, or telling themselves that they are attracted to somebody else for a good reason. But they won't identify the real cause.
Ever. Unless they develop a sense of self-analysis. Until then, their affairs are caused by something outside of themselves. That's what they believe.

You're very correct. I know that he has his issues (as we all do). He has abandonment issues, he has fear of commitment (which I have as well, to a certain extent), and I'm sure there's a bunch of other stuff I don't know about.

It doesn't mean he's a bad guy. But he definitely should do more self reflection, that's true.

I just want to Thank ALL of u for your help and advice. I really appreciate it!

July 28, 2010

Thanks Hazyhead

U bring up all the good points that I myself think about.
As far as him 'never really loved her' - I didn't realize that I wrote that. He never said that. He said that they have a history and there is love. He did say that he's never felt love like he does with me (which could so obviously be a line)

As far as what I honestly think...I obviously have a LOT of doubt about him because he is a serial cheater and because I've never walked down this path before.

I do think I need to stick to my NC and keep my options open to finding someone better. Its just really hard (as I'm sure anyone can understand - when you love someone so much).

I dont want to be with a cheater, I dont really want to be with someone with so much baggage, but I do love him. BUT I'm hoping that having this time apart will give me room to breathe and get a better view on things and be able to move on. I dont want to be in love with someone that's not available to me, and someone that may never change their cheating ways.

That's mainly why I started this thread - to get some answers that will help motivate me to see things clearly.

Thanks so much

Your gut never lies, Tiger. I wish I had listened to mine; instead, it nagged at me for months whilst I followed my heart. Needless to say, it got broken. Words are just words, as YellowShark said. You need to look at his actions to see what's likely to happen.

Saying that there's love in his relationship, whatever that means, is, again, too vague and gives him the perfect get-out later on down the line.

Read some of the threads in this forum, hon; check how many of them are similar to your own - you will be surprised, as we've all been there and thought our situation is different.

Well done with NC - keep it up and you will feel better. All it takes is time. I'm five months into NC now and really feeling it start to lift - all those intense emotions are easing and I'm genuinely enjoying life without him. I wouldn't ever go back to it.

You can do it ((((((tiger))))))

July 28, 2010

Thanks YellowShark for your advice. I think getting the views here just reinforces what I know deep down, but dismiss because of my feelings. This is really helping me look at things objectively.

Thanks

All I know is when we think with our emotions we can make mistakes that we may regret. Since I am not emotionally attached to this guy all I can see is his past actions. His past actions indicate his future actions. And if you say he's cheated a lot then I would say he's a serial cheater. Therefore if you two are going to hook up I am pretty sure he will cheat on you.

That doesn't mean you can't be friends, it just means you can't be partners in a trusting relationship.

July 28, 2010

That's what I think too. I think well if he cheated on her a bunch of times, he'd cheat on me - but then I think he never really loved her (according to him, he's never felt love like he does with me) - I SO REALIZE HOW NAIVE I SOUND FOR SAYING THAT OR BELIEVING IT...If I was on the outside lookin in I'd think that's dumb, but sometimes I think 'What if, its true, what if he never really loved her but we found each other and we connect like neither one of us has felt before!" - He doesn't really have a reason to lie about that with me, because its been a year and I haven't slept with him, he knows its not going to happen, so if that was his game, its the dumbest game ever - that's what I also find confusing.

But I dunno, i just keep flip flopping, mostly because my emotions are involved and maybe I try to believe what I want to.

I'm very confused.

Thanks for the response

Believing if he really loved you, he would never cheat on you is just pure fantasy.

Fidelity is a choice, a commitment made daily to the person you are having a relationship with.

What's love got to do with it?

Do not delude yourself into believing love conquers all.

It conquers a lot, but character?

Character is who YOU ARE when you think no one is looking.

July 28, 2010

Well done with NC - keep it up and you will feel better. All it takes is time. I'm five months into NC now and really feeling it start to lift - all those intense emotions are easing and I'm genuinely enjoying life without him. I wouldn't ever go back to it.

You can do it ((((((tiger))))))

I'm very happy for you for being able to get out and feel a lot better.

Thanks so much for the encouragement. This all really helps me stay strong

July 28, 2010

I'm very happy for you for being able to get out and feel a lot better.
Thanks so much for the encouragement. This all really helps me stay strong

Well, me getting out wasn't exactly voluntary, but thank you. I'm glad for me too

Keep posting here - invaluable support.

July 28, 2010

Hi Everyone,

I must confess that before this experience I used to always view OW/OM and cheaters as people that put themselves in terrible situations and deserve their tormented outcomes.

But....I met a guy a year ago, we went out on a date and he was honest enough to tell me that he has a 4 yr old son and is separated with the baby momma, but he was also honest enough to say that the door isn't totally closed on their relationship.

Since I liked him, I didn't really want to date him and invest in him if the possibility of him getting back with ex was likely enough for him to be honest about it.

We became friends and hung out, we made out a few times, but I never slept with him.

He got back together with the ex on New years and we remained friends, but it was really flirty and I didn't realize it at the time, but it was some sort of emotional affair. Given what I said in my first paragraph, I never thought I'd ever be the girl to make out with and do a bit of fooling around with a guy that's taken, but that's what happened.

I've tried so many ways, to put restrictions on our friendship, to stop the kissing, to even just limit it to platonic emails, but nothing works, we both feel that the chemistry/connection we have is off the charts and its like nothing either one of us has felt before. I'd also like to add that its not just the physical stuff, WE JUST CLICK, so much, I know that if we were to date we'd work out so well.

He confessed that he loved me, shortly after he got back with the ex. I love him. He says that he's mainly there for the kid and he never talks bad about his gf, he says that they have a history together since they've been together for 8 yrs or so. So I understand why he's doing what he's doing, that's why I'm trying to distance myself, but its hard.

He has been honest with me about so much, including the fact that he's cheated on her a bunch of times before, but those times were just sex and he never got emotionally involved. He's emotionally involved with me and confesses that I "make him feel the way he always thought love should be, and that being with her is a glaring contrast"

I can't push him or manipulate him into leaving, and i dont want to even if I could, because he has a kid, so I'm trying to distance myself now because I feel so much hurt because I love him like I've never loved anyone else (even when I was in love with others)

My question is this: since he's been known to cheat on her, if he ever left her and we got together, does it necessarily mean that he'd cheat on me?

I used to always think, "if he cheats on someone with u, he'd cheat on u with someone else' - but I dunno this situation seems different.
We haven't slept together, we just connect so well, and we have love for each other, and an amazing chemistry. I'm really confused.

Sorry for the very long post. I'd greatly appreciate any advice and/or personal stories that will help me put things into prespective.

Thanks so much!

First off, alot of what he SAYS sets off red flags. He is likely lying about several to many things to you.

Don't watch what he says, watch what he DOES.

Now on to your actual question: can cheaters change?

Yes, they can. But they have to address their issues before they will. They have to recognize it as a fault, take responsibility for their actions (not blaming anyone else for their actions), feeling remorse and make amends or peace with it. They have to resolve the issue and then work on themselves and their coping skills. He cannot be doing this while actively cheating. He must end one relationship.

I really don't see why you would stay with him if you see it as a dead end relationship. You don't want him to leave because he has a child, yet you are closing yourself off to a whole world where you would have what you want with an available man.

Put yourself first. That's what he's doing.

GEL

July 28, 2010

I really don't see why you would stay with him if you see it as a dead end relationship. You don't want him to leave because he has a child, yet you are closing yourself off to a whole world where you would have what you want with an available man.

Put yourself first. That's what he's doing.

GEL

Thanks for the input.

First off, I am NOT closing myself off. I said that I'm not really waiting on him, and that I'm going to date, and try to find someone that I can actually have a good relationship with.

In fact I have a date tonight. Its with a guy that I met a few weeks ago. We already went out once and tonight is gonna be date #2.

I'm saying that I love the taken guy, and so I have all these questions.

You are correct though in the fact that when it comes to him, I'm in a no-win situation because I dont want him to leave his kid and have all these issues with regards to it, yet I still love him and wish that we can somehow be together.

That I totally do see, that's why I'm doing the NC (trying it again - and its still in very early stages), and that's why I'm still dating other people.

Thanks for the input. I appreciate it

July 28, 2010

Thanks for the input.
First off, I am NOT closing myself off. I said that I'm not really waiting on him, and that I'm going to date, and try to find someone that I can actually have a good relationship with.

In fact I have a date tonight. Its with a guy that I met a few weeks ago. We already went out once and tonight is gonna be date #2.

I'm saying that I love the taken guy, and so I have all these questions.
You are correct though in the fact that when it comes to him, I'm in a no-win situation because I dont want him to leave his kid and have all these issues with regards to it, yet I still love him and wish that we can somehow be together.

That I totally do see, that's why I'm doing the NC (trying it again - and its still in very early stages), and that's why I'm still dating other people.

Thanks for the input. I appreciate it

Do you consider yourself emotionally available? I mean I dated but I was in no way ready for anything for almost a year after all the drama. So it's nice to keep busy and things...but if you're not ready your doing a disservice to the guy.....

July 28, 2010

Do you consider yourself emotionally available? I mean I dated but I was in no way ready for anything for almost a year after all the drama. So it's nice to keep busy and things...but if you're not ready your doing a disservice to the guy.....

I agree. I dated not long after and was still emotionally connected to xMM. I thought of how it would be if I was with him whilst I was out. Now, I still am not quite ready to date... I don't think... getting there though. I do go out though and have fun with my girlfriends which, on top of everything else, is distraction enough!

It wont do you any harm, just don't expect anything whilst your still emotionally involved elsewhere. Go out and just have some fun

July 28, 2010

oh sure, a cheater can change in the sense that they can take a vow to never actually cheat again.

but I don't believe for one second that a cheater ever loses the desire to mess around with other people and would really be tempted if the perfect opportunity arose where they think they'll never get caught.

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