jennie-jennie Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 Yeah but the BIG PICTURE you are missing is that he has not and will not leave his wife for you. If those 5 years have been so fantastic then he would have most certainly left his wife..........but surprise surprise the cake eater is still at home. Still doing the right thing, still being mama's good boy, yeah, I noticed that. The WS are not stupid, they just don't have it in them to go their own way in life, they do what they are supposed to do... on the surface.
LifesontheUp Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 Still doing the right thing, still being mama's good boy, yeah, I noticed that. The WS are not stupid, they just don't have it in them to go their own way in life, they do what they are supposed to do... on the surface. I agree they are not stupid, just selfish and manipulative. There are some that do leave their wives and then there are others who love to cake eat. They cake eat because those involved allow them to cake eat. I don't think its a case of not having it in them to go their own way in life, its a case of not making a decision because they don't want to or have to. Why choose either wife or OM when you are getting all that you want at the expense of others.
jennie-jennie Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 I agree they are not stupid, just selfish and manipulative. There are some that do leave their wives and then there are others who love to cake eat. They cake eat because those involved allow them to cake eat. I don't think its a case of not having it in them to go their own way in life, its a case of not making a decision because they don't want to or have to. Why choose either wife or OM when you are getting all that you want at the expense of others. We will just have to agree to disagree. I believe I have looked much deeper into the mind of a MM than you ever have. I am not saying MM like you describe do not exist, since there are different kinds of MM. But the ones that I describe exist as well.
silverfish Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 The marriage contains lies and deception, the extramarital relationship does not, so no worry. We have had that "euphoria, excitement, connection and love" for five years now, our relationship is long since stable with a firm foundation based on honesty and openness. Had the WS had that kind of foundation in his marriage, he might never had had the need to emotionally leave it. My parents 'marriage' didn't contain lies and deception, my father lied to my mother...one person lying, it wasn't a 'culture of deception' at all. Simple...she trusted him, and why wouldn't she? Until there is proof that the trust has been broken it is unreasonable to not trust someone, let alone someone you are M with - no? Proof is only possible if there is physical evidence, or a confession. Actually your MM's wife sounds very trusting so how can do you figure she is equally responsible for the lies and deception? Why do you think the MM is so scared of losing her that he goes through so much dishonesty and deception? I'm trying not to be 'cheaterist'..my dad told me he did it to protect me & my sister, which made sense at the time, we were still small, and he was emotionally immature. There appeared to be no great romance between my parents, but then there wasn't with my dad and his OW either. I think they probably had exciting sex for a while, and he had a lot of GF's after my mum, again, I'm sure it was exciting sex and so on. Now he's been with someone for 13 years and she's wonderful they have a fantastic relationship, but he suffers from alcohol related ED.....but I've never seen him happier.
jennie-jennie Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 My parents 'marriage' didn't contain lies and deception, my father lied to my mother...one person lying, it wasn't a 'culture of deception' at all. Simple...she trusted him, and why wouldn't she? Until there is proof that the trust has been broken it is unreasonable to not trust someone, let alone someone you are M with - no? Proof is only possible if there is physical evidence, or a confession. Actually your MM's wife sounds very trusting so how can do you figure she is equally responsible for the lies and deception? Why do you think the MM is so scared of losing her that he goes through so much dishonesty and deception? I'm trying not to be 'cheaterist'..my dad told me he did it to protect me & my sister, which made sense at the time, we were still small, and he was emotionally immature. There appeared to be no great romance between my parents, but then there wasn't with my dad and his OW either. I think they probably had exciting sex for a while, and he had a lot of GF's after my mum, again, I'm sure it was exciting sex and so on. Now he's been with someone for 13 years and she's wonderful they have a fantastic relationship, but he suffers from alcohol related ED.....but I've never seen him happier. In the case of my MM's marriage, openness and honesty have only been there to a degree, ie as long as what was shared was socially acceptable. Any dark spots have been kept to themselves/himself. I consider this to be the responsibility of both spouses - if they only accept each other's public self, not the real self, the marriage is not based on openness and honesty in my opinion.
jennie-jennie Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 (edited) Now he's been with someone for 13 years and she's wonderful they have a fantastic relationship, but he suffers from alcohol related ED.....but I've never seen him happier. Most likely many other OW have just like me gone through periods of their relationship when the MM has suffered of ED because of guilt. It had no major impact on the quality of our relationship. It is not intercourse as such which makes or breaks a relationship. It is the high degree of intimacy, chemistry and love combined which makes a relationship special. Edited August 1, 2010 by jennie-jennie
Woggle Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 I love this post. Do the BS understand that this is what their WS have experienced - the best sex, connection and excitement of their life? No matter how much the WS throw the OP under the bus, this is what they experienced. Why is it that cheaters somehow are only able to experience this in an affair? Cheating is part of the thrill for them. If I am ever cheated on then she can experience all those things without me in the picture anymore.
bentnotbroken Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 You make quite a valid point. Either the WS thinks all women/men are stupid OR they WANT to be caught. Simple as that. I vote this one. Mr. Messy felt I was too stupid to figure out how to use the computer.
jennie-jennie Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 Why is it that cheaters somehow are only able to experience this in an affair? Cheating is part of the thrill for them. If I am ever cheated on then she can experience all those things without me in the picture anymore. I don't agree with this assumption. Every long term relationship I have had has contained a high and lasting intensity of sex, connection and excitement. The fact that a relationship is an affair is a negative. It is the degree of love, chemistry and intimacy which makes the difference.
jennie-jennie Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 (edited) Oops, posted in wrong thread. Edited August 1, 2010 by jennie-jennie
LifesontheUp Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 We will just have to agree to disagree. I believe I have looked much deeper into the mind of a MM than you ever have. I am not saying MM like you describe do not exist, since there are different kinds of MM. But the ones that I describe exist as well. I think you are confused. I've said that if it was that fantastic with you he would have left, not been still at home 5 yrs later. He is a cake eater, he gets you and his wife. So what is different about your MM from this? He's a cake eater plain and simple, he WILL NOT do anything to choose because he loves it the way it is. Shame is, you nor his wife do anything but aid and abet him in having his cake. His wife without full knowledge of your affair, you with full knowledge of it. I wonder who the stupid/foolish one are?
silverfish Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 In the case of my MM's marriage, openness and honesty have only been there to a degree, ie as long as what was shared was socially acceptable. Any dark spots have been kept to themselves/himself. I consider this to be the responsibility of both spouses - if they only accept each other's public self, not the real self, the marriage is not based on openness and honesty in my opinion. I understand what you believe, but how do you reconcile this with someone who does not share these beliefs? One thing I have noticed that in happy relationships both partners share the same code of conduct in life generally. It's a massive disappointment when you discover the other person has broken this...not just through infidelity but other behaviour as well. How has your MM's W kept her H in the dark? In some ways, it sounds as if there is a side to him that encourages this behaviour in others In my experience, regarding the OP, the 'cheater' is the one who tends to feel more 'stupid' when they realise that there is more happiness to living your life with integrity whatever course that takes.
jennie-jennie Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 I think you are confused. I've said that if it was that fantastic with you he would have left, not been still at home 5 yrs later. He is a cake eater, he gets you and his wife. So what is different about your MM from this? He's a cake eater plain and simple, he WILL NOT do anything to choose because he loves it the way it is. Shame is, you nor his wife do anything but aid and abet him in having his cake. His wife without full knowledge of your affair, you with full knowledge of it. I wonder who the stupid/foolish one are? To me it seems to be anyone who has such a shallow understanding of an affair as you do. There are more things in life that matter than an incredible relationship. We will just have to agree to disagree as I said.
jennie-jennie Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 I understand what you believe, but how do you reconcile this with someone who does not share these beliefs? One thing I have noticed that in happy relationships both partners share the same code of conduct in life generally. It's a massive disappointment when you discover the other person has broken this...not just through infidelity but other behaviour as well. How has your MM's W kept her H in the dark? In some ways, it sounds as if there is a side to him that encourages this behaviour in others In my experience, regarding the OP, the 'cheater' is the one who tends to feel more 'stupid' when they realise that there is more happiness to living your life with integrity whatever course that takes. I can not speak for the BS, since I do not know her. That is why I wrote "Any dark spots have been kept to themselves/himself." because I do not know if it only applies to my MM or to his wife as well. What I know is that all throughout their marriage he has kept a private space for himself, being that he felt she would not accept this part of him. I do not like blame, I do not put blame on anyone, I am just looking at the state of their marriage, and their marriage did not include a safe place for my MM to show all of himself. I am not saying why this is, just that that it is how it is. If I am to guess, I would say most likely it is the result of the upbringing and culture of my MM and his wife.
Mimolicious Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 oh you won't catch me. Not until i tell my h the m is up the creek, and xmom subsequently reveals all. Cheaters always risk - someone always knows their secret. Are they stupid? Umm. Maybe some. But i never yet met a cheater who didn't do what they did knowing the bs may one day find out. The risk was worth it. And for stupid people, they sure as hell knew how to have good sex. They knew what they were doing, they weighed it up. You know, when i'm thinking quietly to myself about my a, i think i didn't see things straight. Morally. When i read this thread, i want to say, actually, i had the best sex, connection and excitement of my life. What's stupid about that? I still love the xmom. I wouldn't have done it otherwise. And i don't care what people think, because i think if you love someone you should go for it. What's stupid here? No, hot sex and huge emotional connection may at times be amoral. It's never, ever stupid. And if you're caught? Well, you knew the risk. You knew it was worth it. It was that hot. You feel sorry when you are caught, cos you know that's the end of the hotness. The sex, emotion, or limerance as some would have it. And you have to face up, guilt, being grounded. Whatever the emotionally childish response to betrayal is in your situation. What is stupid is trying to make out the ow/om factor in the r is more 'stupid' than you are. In fact, trying to say another is stupid makes me straight away suspect the thinker in question hasn't thought things through. Have i been trolled again? ten characters needed
Mimolicious Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 I love this post. Do the BS understand that this is what their WS have experienced - the best sex, connection and excitement of their life? No matter how much the WS throw the OP under the bus, this is what they experienced. Of course you love it! You tell me, you were a BS before being OW. Do you honestly think that this is something that a person you betrayed has or should understand? I personally had to endure listening to this from both parties. My xH felt like I was his therapist and even told me how he FACKED his OW in the back seat of MY (not his) car, hence he had to move my son's car seat out. I have about 200 letters that he wrote while away telling me what you would call his "experience' with the POS he got involved with. Do you think that I should understand any of it? or I should have been told any of it? Why? What did I do to have to honor some "understanding" to someone that grabbed a hammer and hit me on the chest with it? I don't give a ***** how good their sex was, their connection could be 4g for all I give a rata$$ and he sure is very excited now. The grass is not greener and some cheaters cheat because they can, because it gives them a rush and livelihood to have 2 penis/vaginas to play with but when the music stops, PARTY OVAH FOR EVERYONE! Of course this is not the case in you A, JJ. I am sure that your MM would love to explain to his W his experience with you and how she is less than a second class citizen since he's met your highness:p but in reality, anyone with 1oz of humbleness and a beating heart wouldn't do this to someone that has been nothing but a good person, in deed. In reality, if us humans took a minute to put ourselves in the other person's shoes, I think is safe to say, we would think twice and have less room for error in our lives. I think some cheaters think to highly of themselves and feel like they are owed the sympathy if this is the case.
Mimolicious Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 (edited) To me it seems to be anyone who has such a shallow understanding of an affair as you do. There are more things in life that matter than an incredible relationship. We will just have to agree to disagree as I said. There are more things in life and A's besides JJ's and her MM. Jeez... This is not the only A in the world to be sort of Mantra. Perhaps not 2 people are going to have the same understanding of A's or cheaters. Why should all opinions be based on an isolated case? I seriously dont get it... Edited August 2, 2010 by Mimolicious typo
jennie-jennie Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 There are more things in life and A's besides JJ's and her MM. Jeez... This is not the only A in the world to be sort of Mantra. Perhaps not 2 people are going to have the same understanding of A's or cheaters. Why should all opinions be based on an isolated case? I seriously dont get it... I believe my affair is pretty typical for a long term extramarital relationship with a deep level of emotional involvement. Of course there are other kinds of affairs as well, as I commented on earlier: We will just have to agree to disagree. I believe I have looked much deeper into the mind of a MM than you ever have. I am not saying MM like you describe do not exist, since there are different kinds of MM. But the ones that I describe exist as well.
jennie-jennie Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 (edited) I love this post. Do the BS understand that this is what their WS have experienced - the best sex, connection and excitement of their life? No matter how much the WS throw the OP under the bus, this is what they experienced. Of course you love it! You tell me, you were a BS before being OW. Do you honestly think that this is something that a person you betrayed has or should understand? I personally had to endure listening to this from both parties. My xH felt like I was his therapist and even told me how he FACKED his OW in the back seat of MY (not his) car, hence he had to move my son's car seat out. I have about 200 letters that he wrote while away telling me what you would call his "experience' with the POS he got involved with. Do you think that I should understand any of it? or I should have been told any of it? Why? What did I do to have to honor some "understanding" to someone that grabbed a hammer and hit me on the chest with it? I don't give a ***** how good their sex was, their connection could be 4g for all I give a rata$$ and he sure is very excited now. The grass is not greener and some cheaters cheat because they can, because it gives them a rush and livelihood to have 2 penis/vaginas to play with but when the music stops, PARTY OVAH FOR EVERYONE! Of course this is not the case in you A, JJ. I am sure that your MM would love to explain to his W his experience with you and how she is less than a second class citizen since he's met your highness:p but in reality, anyone with 1oz of humbleness and a beating heart wouldn't do this to someone that has been nothing but a good person, in deed. In reality, if us humans took a minute to put ourselves in the other person's shoes, I think is safe to say, we would think twice and have less room for error in our lives. I think some cheaters think to highly of themselves and feel like they are owed the sympathy if this is the case. I should have specified that my comment in bold referred to the BS on LS, who engage themselves in discussions about affairs. It was not meant as a comment to BSs in general, but as a comment in an ongoing discussion between OW/OM and BSs on LS, where BSs often state the opposite. But then I also want to add, that as a BS knowing (the times that was the case, it wasn't always, often it was ONS or flings) that the affair my SO had involved a deeper connection and love, made me understand why he and the OW had gone through with it. I am sorry you hurt, Mimo, it seems your husband supplied you with more information than necessary. Edited August 2, 2010 by jennie-jennie
LifesontheUp Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 (edited) I love this post. Do the BS understand that this is what their WS have experienced - the best sex, connection and excitement of their life? No matter how much the WS throw the OP under the bus, this is what they experienced. The first quote is why I replied that if it was that fantastic he would have left his wife. Later you come back with: To me it seems to be anyone who has such a shallow understanding of an affair as you do. There are more things in life that matter than an incredible relationship. We will just have to agree to disagree as I said. Oh dear, and still no answer about why he hasn't left his wife even though you allegedly have something "more". And yes I disagree. Often those close to what is happening cannot see the big picture and see how they are being used. Edited August 2, 2010 by LifesontheUp
jennie-jennie Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 The first quote is why I replied that if it was that fantastic he would have left his wife. Later you come back with: Oh dear, and still no answer about why he hasn't left his wife even though you allegedly have something "more". And yes I disagree. Often those close to what is happening cannot see the big picture and see how they are being used. I have answered: There are more things in life that matter than an incredible relationship. Even though I am 100% certain that my MM with me has experienced "the best sex, connection and excitement" of his life, there are things that his wife can supply which I can not. These things are as or perhaps even more important to him than a romantic love relationship. That is why he stays with her. That doesn't make what we have less, which you are implying. It just means that "there are more things in life that matter than an incredible relationship".
LifesontheUp Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 I have answered: Even though I am 100% certain that my MM with me has experienced "the best sex, connection and excitement" of his life, there are things that his wife can supply which I can not. These things are as or perhaps even more important to him than a romantic love relationship. That is why he stays with her. That doesn't make what we have less, which you are implying. It just means that "there are more things in life that matter than an incredible relationship". Of course its less. If he won't leave his wife for you after 5 yrs then you do not matter as much to him. Like I posted previously, he's a cake eater. He gets to keep his wife and family and have you ready and available whenever he wishes as a side dish.
jennie-jennie Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Of course its less. If he won't leave his wife for you after 5 yrs then you do not matter as much to him. Like I posted previously, he's a cake eater. He gets to keep his wife and family and have you ready and available whenever he wishes as a side dish. Matter as much as when? Matter as much as what? I matter as much as I have always mattered. Together we have the best relationship he has ever had when it comes to intimacy, chemistry and love. But I can not provide him with the same sense of family that his wife can. They have many children together. I am not their mother. They have a house and a life they have built together. They have in-laws and mutual friends. What we have experienced during these 5 years in terms of an incredible relationship is not made less by the fact that he also values other relationships in his life. That is a very simplistic view of life.
LifesontheUp Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 They have in-laws and mutual friends. What we have experienced during these 5 years in terms of an incredible relationship is not made less by the fact that he also values other relationships in his life. That is a very simplistic view of life. Of course its less, what is simplistic is your relationship but you are too close to see the wood from the trees. You don't share the times he has with his family or friends because you're his little secret squirreled away. Someone he takes out when he can and feels like but won't bring out in the open so he can share you with his family and friends and show everyone how he happy he is with you. And before you say I am gloating....I am not. I find it sad that you give so much of yourself to a selfish cake eater who when push comes to shove will throw you under the nearest bus.
jennie-jennie Posted August 2, 2010 Posted August 2, 2010 Of course its less, what is simplistic is your relationship but you are too close to see the wood from the trees. You don't share the times he has with his family or friends because you're his little secret squirreled away. Someone he takes out when he can and feels like but won't bring out in the open so he can share you with his family and friends and show everyone how he happy he is with you. And before you say I am gloating....I am not. I find it sad that you give so much of yourself to a selfish cake eater who when push comes to shove will throw you under the nearest bus. While my MM might very well throw me under the bus at Dday (since this is the knee-jerk reaction of all MPs), he is not a "selfish cake eater". May I suggest that you read Emily Brown's book Patterns of Infidelity and Their Treatment, to get a deeper understanding of affairs? Your view is just too simplistic. You still don't specify what our relationship is less than. Less than it could be if my MM was single? Well, that is true. Less than what I have described it as being? Well, that is not true. I am the one who has experienced the incredible love, intimacy and chemistry we have shared, not you. Nothing you say can take away from my experience. It is like saying: The sex you experienced was not as good as you thought. Huh? Sex is as good as it is in the moment you experience it. Chemistry, intimacy, love is as good as it is in the moment you experience it. I think as a BS you are too close to see the wood from the trees. You are refusing to realize that the reality is that an extramarital relationship really can be that great, even when the MM never leaves. Borrowing WW's words which got this discussion started: "It was that hot." And in my words: It is that hot.
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