A question of betrayal

[Circular]

Thanks for answering! Again, I really appreciate your honesty.

 

Actually, what you write sounds a bit like what my H said...that he never bashed me to the OW. Now, I will never know for sure of course. But I have come to the conclusion that whatever shortcomings I had were not the topic of discussion between him and the OW.

 

Back to your situation, have you had this discussion with your wife? If so, what does she say about divulging things that she shouldn't have about you?

 

Yes, my W and I have discussed/argued about this many times in the past. Like someone said above she blows off steam about things that stress her out by discussing it with EVERYBODY. It's a complicated situation and I definitely feel that it degrades my trust in her. Reading everyones posts have made me think a lot about it. And, I think it's one of the core issues for me so much so that I can now see the cycle that's been happening over time.

 

* W divulges personal information to everyone

* Friends start mentioning things

* I broach the subject and W and I get into heated argument

* I start telling my W less about personal things

 

You can see the cycle creates an isolation issue. You can see this is a big problem if I don't divulge personal feelings to her about things I'm dealing with as I don't trust she'll keep them to herself. Then I start talking about personal stuff only with friends I've known for a very long time and personally trust not to say things. It's not like I have a ton of these things, and sometimes they're not my things but maybe for example a good friend of mine who was having sexual issues with his wife and suddenly I hear it brought up in a conversation with other friends. So it creates this viscous cycle that's been eating away at me for some time.

 

I think the best thing right now is that I go to IC and work it through there so I understand what's happening with me as I can see certain patterns that have emerged from this and my subsequent behaviors. Then sit down with her and really focus on hashing it out.

 

FWIW this is probably the only issue I ever divulged with my xMW and I didn't even talk to her about my W in this manner I spoke more about how having just a normal conversation with my W had become complicated and I appreciated how xMW could listen and actually have some unbiased perspective on things going on in my life. Sounds odd in a way when I type it as it seems this is an issue most women mention in their Ms.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Circular

[Dexter Morgan]

I have to get this question off my chest...

 

I've been reading this forum for quite a few months now. As a MM who has had an A, I know I crossed the line and I betrayed my W and my vows and it will take some time for reparations. But, there' something that's been on my chest for sometime that I want to discuss and hear other points of view on and that is, what is betrayal? The reason I ask this is it seems almost everyone defines a BS as someone who was cheated on by their WS. Yet, I don't exactly see it this way; I see this as a very myopic view on betrayal.

 

Even though I've kept it inside for years and this is the first time I've outwardly written, spoken, etc.. about this I feel betrayed by my W as well, I'm not trying to justify or say that two wrongs make a right but it isn't because she ran into someone elses arms, its because I'm a private person and I like to keep personal things about me private and even after telling her again and again that this is how I am and that she should respect that, she's continually, openly told friends, family and others things about me, situations I have to deal with (ie a depressive phase I went through), etc.. to them. Things that I told her were only for 'us'. To me this is a betrayal of confidentiality and trust and for me it's very hurtful and this dismissal of my wishes is even more hurtful. So, I'm curious, I know this is the OW/OM board and most of the discussion of betrayal is around the WS but is that the only way betrayal is defined?

 

My curiosity is piqued tonight

 

no, there are all sorts of betrayals, yours is just one of the king daddies.

 

I'm sure if she understood and never brought things up to other people about you, that you are man enough to be able to forget about it and move one.

 

but when you f##k someone other than your spouse, that tends to scar for life...something you never forget, and more painful when the triggers hit.

 

so yes, there are all sorts of betrayals, but don't try to mitigate the magnitude of your betrayal of your wife just because it takes many forms.

[Circular]

no, there are all sorts of betrayals, yours is just one of the king daddies.

 

I'm sure if she understood and never brought things up to other people about you, that you are man enough to be able to forget about it and move one.

 

but when you f##k someone other than your spouse, that tends to scar for life...something you never forget, and more painful when the triggers hit.

 

so yes, there are all sorts of betrayals, but don't try to mitigate the magnitude of your betrayal of your wife just because it takes many forms.

 

 

Am not trying to mitigate at all am actually trying to understand the components that led to the breakdown that led me down the path. My relationship started as an EA that lasted a few years before anything got physical.

 

This whole thread is me working on identifying where I f'd up before I really f'd up. Unless you think someone who had an A shouldn't be introspective?

 

Maybe I haven't articulated it clearly enough. Yes, I feel my wife betrayed my confidences many times, and over a long period of time I started reaching out others to have personal conversations and that led to an EA. I'm not saying that the A is the same equal weight as her betraying my confidences. But a betrayal is something that sits and festers and eats away at a critical component of a marriage; trust. And I realize a discovered A completely destroys that trust. I'm trying to really get my head around it so I don't ever repeat the mistake.

[Silly_Girl]

Oh god no, please. BE introspective. Analyse. And review. I wish my MM had done that instead of shoving his head up his a$$ for years.

 

HOWEVER this is not about excusing...

 

If you wanted to put her actions and yours on the scales, well, YOU'd end up in the brown stuff.

 

The only way this 'justification' is constructive is if you use it to improve things and maybe even to 'fess up to her. I'm not convinced one person can save/fix a relationship. If you're serious about you and her (and I hope you are) I think it's going to take more than the thoughts you've had in this thread.

 

I like that you are deconstructing and analysing and re-treading your steps. But it only means something if you take actions, if you don't you are simply building a wall of resentment/blame between you and your wife and giving substance to thoughts of splitting up.

 

If it's right for you to split up, so be it, but don't play mind games with yourself, mate. Life's too short for that rubbish.

[Snowflower]

 

 

 

You can see the cycle creates an isolation issue. You can see this is a big problem if I don't divulge personal feelings to her about things I'm dealing with as I don't trust she'll keep them to herself. Then I start talking about personal stuff only with friends I've known for a very long time and personally trust not to say things.

 

-snip-

 

FWIW this is probably the only issue I ever divulged with my xMW and I didn't even talk to her about my W in this manner I spoke more about how having just a normal conversation with my W had become complicated and I appreciated how xMW could listen and actually have some unbiased perspective on things going on in my life. Sounds odd in a way when I type it as it seems this is an issue most women mention in their Ms.

 

Circular, I cut your previous post down to these two parts because there might be a connection for you between them...although maybe you have already made it...

 

1. You couldn't trust your wife not to keep your private thoughts you shared with her to herself.

 

2. Eventually after being betrayed in this fashion enough times by your wife, you quit confiding in her but confide in other friends.

 

3. Lo and behold, the OW comes on the scene and like most affairs, you can share almost everything with your new friend-the OW. The OW, I assume, kept things you told her in confidence which is what you were craving within your marriage--and the EA (later PA) ensued.

 

Does this make sense to you? Now that I type this, I realize you probably figured this out for yourself already but thought I would take a stab at it. Since you seem to be doing some introspection, maybe this will help?

 

Does your W know you had an affair--I can't remember. Do you want to continue your marriage?

[Snowflower]

Am not trying to mitigate at all am actually trying to understand the components that led to the breakdown that led me down the path. My relationship started as an EA that lasted a few years before anything got physical.

 

This whole thread is me working on identifying where I f'd up before I really f'd up. Unless you think someone who had an A shouldn't be introspective?

 

Maybe I haven't articulated it clearly enough. Yes, I feel my wife betrayed my confidences many times, and over a long period of time I started reaching out others to have personal conversations and that led to an EA. I'm not saying that the A is the same equal weight as her betraying my confidences. But a betrayal is something that sits and festers and eats away at a critical component of a marriage; trust. And I realize a discovered A completely destroys that trust. I'm trying to really get my head around it so I don't ever repeat the mistake.

 

Like I said previously, I find your introspection to be refreshing. I can appreciate that trying to understand and explain why the A happened is a critical key in growing from it and like you say, not ever repeating it.

 

Some people will call any explaining and attempts to understand as excuses, but it is the way to self-awareness and growth, IMO.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Snowflower

[Owl]

I've kind of skimmed through this thread, so bear with me if I'm asking for info that's already been given, please.

 

First off...I read that you told your wife you didn't appreciate her relating personal details to people outside of your marriage, and you've argued about it.

 

What else have you done to address that situation? Have you sought marriage counseling as a means to address the issues in your marriage? Discussed specific limits on what information is acceptable for your wife to communicate, and what isn't? Attempted to become her sounding board so that she doesn't have to vent on someone else, but can vent with you since you're "safe"?

 

I can see that you feel that your wife isn't holding up her end of the marriage...that she's "betraying" you with HER lack of appropriate boundaries with others.

 

Again...get a counselor who can help the two of you to discuss appropriate buondaries and help her see why she needs to keep them. Make sure that your wife clearly understands just how badly this makes you feel when she does this.

 

BUT...

 

You may need to wait a good while before you can address this issue directly. Of course your infidelity is going to be the biggest issue to address in the marriage for quite some time to come. It's the biggest betrayal, and the damage it has done to your relationship far outweighs anything she created with her lack of boundaries.

 

Address that first...get to where the communications between the two of you have been restored...and THEN you should absolutely bring up the issues that she needs to fix in the marriage.

[2sure]

I think the self reflection and questioning in your post is an important, valid, and required part of recovering a marriage after infidelity. Absolutely.

 

As a BS when I initially read it, I thought you referring to your wife sharing information about your infidelity with friends and family and that you felt that was a betrayal. Which it isnt. For a BS - Telling other's about your spouses infidelity is a way of making yourself not the sole victim of something you didnt do.

 

But clearly, that isnt the case here. You are here not attempting to justify but to solve the problem. Wish my H had.

 

As to the problem of your wife betraying your confidences and privacy in gerneral....whew. I have to say, to me, thats a great big deal. And even as a BS I have to say that it has a lot in common with the betrayal of infidelity. Like infidelity, it breaches the intimacy of marriage.

 

I dont have anything to offer really, other than I feel your issue is completely valid and serious.

[Circular]

Like I said previously, I find your introspection to be refreshing. I can appreciate that trying to understand and explain why the A happened is a critical key in growing from it and like you say, not ever repeating it.

 

Some people will call any explaining and attempts to understand as excuses, but it is the way to self-awareness and growth, IMO.

 

Thanks Snowflower, I take the bashing in stride. I realize there are BSs that read these threads and then throw up terms like 'excuse, mitigating, etc..' almost like they find a cheater doing any form of soul-searching or introspection as an undermining of their justifiable anger. I have no problem with it actually as people need to vent their anger and find an outlet for how they were wronged.

 

For myself, I like to put my thoughts 'out there' and that helps me see them in a different light. I also realize this is only a single component to the communication challenge in my marriage, but understanding the dynamics that have been created is the only way to set down the path of reparation. If communication is one of the key issues, which it is then that needs to be worked on first, otherwise there's no communicating.

[Circular]

I've kind of skimmed through this thread, so bear with me if I'm asking for info that's already been given, please.

 

First off...I read that you told your wife you didn't appreciate her relating personal details to people outside of your marriage, and you've argued about it.

 

What else have you done to address that situation? Have you sought marriage counseling as a means to address the issues in your marriage? Discussed specific limits on what information is acceptable for your wife to communicate, and what isn't? Attempted to become her sounding board so that she doesn't have to vent on someone else, but can vent with you since you're "safe"?

 

I can see that you feel that your wife isn't holding up her end of the marriage...that she's "betraying" you with HER lack of appropriate boundaries with others.

 

Again...get a counselor who can help the two of you to discuss appropriate buondaries and help her see why she needs to keep them. Make sure that your wife clearly understands just how badly this makes you feel when she does this.

 

BUT...

 

You may need to wait a good while before you can address this issue directly. Of course your infidelity is going to be the biggest issue to address in the marriage for quite some time to come. It's the biggest betrayal, and the damage it has done to your relationship far outweighs anything she created with her lack of boundaries.

 

Address that first...get to where the communications between the two of you have been restored...and THEN you should absolutely bring up the issues that she needs to fix in the marriage.

 

Yes to everything in the first paragraph except MC. Admittedly a big mistake on my part. I've always actually been a good listener to my wife's issues it's one of the things that she mentions quite often. Her venting I've never quite understood it well as to why she needs to re-tell the story to so many people.

 

Though you skimmed the posts, my plan is to start IC next week and work on my own issues, really drive down into the source of where all this is coming from and then approach the other challenges through MC.

[Dexter Morgan]

Thanks Snowflower, I take the bashing in stride. I realize there are BSs that read these threads and then throw up terms like 'excuse, mitigating, etc..' almost like they find a cheater doing any form of soul-searching or introspection as an undermining of their justifiable anger.

 

nothing wrong with introspection and soul searching, just so long as it doesn't take the form of pointing to the finger at the betrayed spouse. And I know you don't THINK thats what you were doing, but it you weren't, you wouldn't have brought up her divulging private secrets to others.