luvstarved Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 OK porn comes up again and again here and turns into the same tired argument. But, I do have a sincere question for guys who tend to prefer porn/masturbation over "real" sex. If you are in that situation, I am curious as to what sort of alternative your SO could seek that would be preferable/ok/unacceptable to you? I am asking here before I ask my own H. He seems to get insecure and jealous at times and other times not at all, where I would (having to go off on a business trip alone with an attractive coworker, for example). I don't want to have an affair, but masturbation is not enough for me. He denies the reality of the situation in the first place, so there is no "working it out together" to be done. I am sincerely trying to find a way to accept this situation in a way I can live with. And I am thinking that if a guy prefers porn, what is he really thinking his SO ought to do? What does he EXPECT she is doing? Is he HOPING that his SO is doing what he does, masturbating thinking about other people? Is he HOPING that his SO is just being a sexless partner who does not need or really care about sex? Would he be OK if his SO started f**king someone else because then she would get off his case about it? Does he think about or care about her sexual behavior at all, or willing to turn a blind eye to anything as long as he his left to his own fantasy world...? I know that the answers would be different for different people...I really don't know what my H is thinking about this. But I was hoping to get some feedback here first before bringing it up with him so that I am less likely to get blindsided by some unexpected response... I don't even know if there are any "porn addicts" on LS because it seems that typically it's not THEIR problem...so might have to settle for speculation from aficionados vs addicts...
SammySunh Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 i never chose porn over sex, but i can tell you that porn just makes things look so much better then the real thing. its not even a looks thing, my wife is hot. yet i still used porn in conjunction with her. it led to my ruin. i always laughed off anti porn people like they were stuck up busy bodies. i wish i had listened.
spriggig Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 What does your husband say when you confront him on this?
Author luvstarved Posted July 24, 2010 Author Posted July 24, 2010 What does your husband say when you confront him on this? Well, he completely gaslights me so asking the question of him is going to have to be theoretical I suppose. I am not delusional, I have 100% absolute proof of what is going on, but he not only continues to deny it but tells me I am paranoid and twisted and that my lack of trust "scares" him. I understand it's not a problem for the guys involved, they're getting theirs, but I have a harder time with the apparent utter lack of regard for their spouse's needs. Especially to the point of painting them out to be crazy for observing reality. We went sexless for 5 years until I said it would lead to divorce and since then have had a life of infrequent, joyless quickies that are an obvious chore for him. I don't want to do that to him, and after last round of proof of him seeking out sexual stimulation elsewhere and then denying it and blaming me for observing it, I honestly ain't all that into him right now, either. Meanwhile, he masturbates almost every morning like brushing teeth but denies it! I am at the point of, I don't think I can live like this, but am willing to try. The duty sex has not worked, so now what? I recently tried looking at porn myself and masturbating. It "works" but does not satisfy. I AM thinking about other men as a solution at this point. I do not have any crushes, and nobody in mind at all, but...completely at a loss for another idea.
Scrivdog Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 I realize my position on this is highly unpopular among the hand-wringers on this board, but it seems pretty obvious to me that if you're getting no sex from your relationship and you still want to stay in it - then finding an OM is really your only viable option. You've already made it clear what the issue is. Your SO isn't stupid, he knows you haven't had sex in ages with him. You can only talk to the SO about the issue so much before you need to make some decision. I don't even get how he could be angry if you did have an OM at this point.
LucreziaBorgia Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 I would ask him what you can do as an outlet since he chooses to use porn as his. If he asks for clarification, I'd simply say that you would like to enjoy regular and satisfying sex and that since he isn't up to the task, perhaps you should consider seeing someone on the side who is. I'd be curious to see what he would say to that.
She's_NotInLove_w/Me Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 I would ask him what you can do as an outlet since he chooses to use porn as his. If he asks for clarification, I'd simply say that you would like to enjoy regular and satisfying sex and that since he isn't up to the task, perhaps you should consider seeing someone on the side who is. I'd be curious to see what he would say to that. I was thinking something along LB's point of view before reading the above... Your husband has proven that he only changes under the threat of losing you. He may wisen up at least a little when you discuss other posibilities with him... Really, he is becoming numb due to all of his sexual releases and fantasies that do not involve you... It's an easy solution if you had a willing partner. 60 day period of no porn and no masturbating. Combined with complete sexual availabilty to one another with enough time and privacy to enjoy pleasureable lovemaking. The problem is that he is not that "willing partner" at this point. Perhaps the threat of someone else may help him get there?
Toodamnpragmatic Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 FIVE YEARS of NO SEX and you NEVER have had this conversation with him? I rest my case. Why are you married???? I just shake my head in complete and utter disbelief......
Author luvstarved Posted July 25, 2010 Author Posted July 25, 2010 Thx for responses. Problem with just saying, howzabout I do someone else since you won't do me is that he IS doing me, just that it's 2-3x a month while he does himself practically every day, and it's always so quick and impersonal that it seems like he's doing duty sex, even though he talks about it after like it was great...?? WTF? Also, according to him, he RARELY masturbates, and he's just getting older, and we don't have time, and other lame and untrue excuses...so he would take the position that our sex life is just fine and I have unrealistic expectations of some sort or another. He has a general issue of leaping to the worst interpretation of what anyone outside of his blood relatives says to him, always deflecting the faintest whiff of criticism. This means I can't talk about it, he shuts me off with my delusions and bad intentions before I can even say anything. And I am NOT bringing it up constantly...I would say every 4 or 5 months on average... Examples: How do you feel about how our sex life is going? (I asked a few weeks after sexless phase ended) He; Oh great, now I'm doing it and you want to complain that I'm not doing it right! Me: No, I just wanted to talk about how we both felt. He: Oh yes you are, you want me to swing from chandeliers and nothing is ever going to be good enough! Do you feel like I am getting tighter? (after doing more Kegels, just wanted feedback) He: Oh for crying out loud, do you have to be so down on yourself? Could you give me some feedback? I feel like I could please you better if you did. He: Everything's just fine. I'm perfectly content. Me: But I want to do better than content you, I'd like to wow you. He: Well, I don't want to be wowed. I feel like you're not really sexually attracted to me anymore. He: I am. Me: Well you act like you're not really into having sex with me. He: Well you just want porn star sex. You expect me to do it like a teenager. Quit creating problems. I am attracted to you and I don't want anyone else. Me: I feel like you enjoy masturbating more. He: Your mind is in the gutter. I very rarely do that anymore, and I don't have those kinds of thoughts. I am a good man...blah blah blah. On and on. And, he obviously is not "into" me, but he definitely was for the first 2-3 years. But, it is not because there is something "wrong" with me sexually,he's been invited to ask for what he'd like, I've tried a lot of things on my own, and am pretty open-minded. Sometimes I think that he just LIKES it simple and to the point and really does not see why that would not be enough. Makes some sense if your primary outlet has generally been the mentally exciting but physically routine "art" of masturbation... I'm blathering. Bottom line, he's not into me now and unlikely to ever be again. He has sex with me to appease me, it seems, but I still feel left high and dry. He won't talk or change so I have to settle for this or get my jollies elsewhere I guess.
FryFish Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 I htink his problem is too much religion... and not porn. Someone has made him ashamed of sex. Seriously, He has major issues with honesty and communication. Tell him that. Tell him that you ARENT satisfied with your sex life or your communication about it. If he cant handle adult conversations then he shouldnt be in an adult relationship.
LittleTiger Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 Based soley on what you've said in this thread (I'm sure there'll be more background somewhere but I don't recall reading it) I don't understand why you want to be married to this man. Your sex life is almost non-existent, your communication isn't much better and he sounds like a selfish, thoughtless man who can't even be honest with himself, let alone you. Yes, find yourself another man. When you start looking and eventually realise there are some genuinely good guys out there who will make you their number one priority, you'll wonder why you waited so long. I'm not suggesting cheating on your husband though. Either get his agreement (unlikely!), or leave him. He has a lot of issues around sex (possibly religion/guilt as Fryfish suggested) and he isn't going to change any time soon.
Author luvstarved Posted July 25, 2010 Author Posted July 25, 2010 Thanks Canada. Conclusion remains: no solution. Been to 5 different marital counselors with same result. To H's mind, they are right about negative observations about me. Positive observations about me come about as result of my outwitting them. Positive observations about him prove that he is a good man that I should be grateful to have. Negative observations about him prove that counselor is not competent and so no point in continuing. I am now in IC. Every counselor has told me that this is not going to change and I will have to live with it or leave. My issue is I cannot make that decision, I can't live with it but I don't want to leave. H does have positive characteristics. Tries to be good Dad, picks up after himself, is interesting to go to places with, does not smoke, drink, do drugs or womanize in reality, takes care of himself and is very buff and handsome, not a spendthrift, has broad interests, does not have hobbies that consume him or take big chunks of time from family (outside of the wanking LOL) and while his immaturity is frustrating, there is also something strangely appealing about his "boyishness"...etc. He is the 5th man I have lived with. First one was physically and emotionally abusive womanizer (he insisted on open marriage so not sure you could say he "cheated" although he frequently broke the "leave my friends alone" rule), second guy was super nice but very low libido and frankly boring (only interested in electronic/mechanical stuff), third ended up declaring his bisexuality that in the end I just could not deal with, and 4th was a guy from completely different culture that I could not see eye to eye with because of culture clash. So I still want my H but can't have him in the way that I want him. Maybe this is payback for others not being what I wanted, but DAMN!
LittleTiger Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 Sorry to be blunt luvstarved but these are your options: 1. Keep living as you are now 2. Leave your husband 3. Stay with your husband but tell him you're finding yourself a man to play with (this option is obviously only available if your husband agrees) 4. Stay with your husband and have a 'conventional' affair ie don't tell him That's it, as far as I can see. No other choices. You HAVE to make a decision one way or another. By making no decision you're effectively choosing option 1 by default. Seems to me you just think he's the best you can find. He isn't!
Author luvstarved Posted July 25, 2010 Author Posted July 25, 2010 Sorry to be blunt luvstarved but these are your options: 1. Keep living as you are now 2. Leave your husband 3. Stay with your husband but tell him you're finding yourself a man to play with (this option is obviously only available if your husband agrees) 4. Stay with your husband and have a 'conventional' affair ie don't tell him That's it, as far as I can see. No other choices. You HAVE to make a decision one way or another. By making no decision you're effectively choosing option 1 by default. Seems to me you just think he's the best you can find. He isn't! Not blunt at all, perfectly accurate assessment of the situation. This is why I am in IC at the moment. I don't know why I am stuck in this can't live with him, can't live without him deal. But yes, I do "want" him more than the others I was with, and so surely some part of me thinks, if I could not get all I wanted before when I was younger, why would I expect to now? And that does lead a person to wonder also, do I expect too much in the first place, if I have not managed to be happy with anyone?
OliveOyl Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 There's a book called "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay." If you haven't already, read that cover to cover. About two years ago, I read that and based on it's "advice" (although of course I would never use a book alone to make a major decision), it give me the clue that I should leave. It did take me two years to act on that. Things are not cut and dried. My hubby and I get along very well, and he is a very good man. Even better now that we are separated. But he had a very ingrained porn habit (I'm sure he still does). I could tell it totally dampened his desire for me and he never really looked at me as a "sexual" being. We went over two years without sex. I was not without fault too... there were *multiple issues* going on. But no sex is such a clue. I would rather live apart than live as roommates.
Author luvstarved Posted July 26, 2010 Author Posted July 26, 2010 There's a book called "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay." If you haven't already, read that cover to cover. About two years ago, I read that and based on it's "advice" (although of course I would never use a book alone to make a major decision), it give me the clue that I should leave. It did take me two years to act on that. Interesting. I have read SOOOO many books but had not heard of that one. I will check it out. I noticed that the author has her practice very close to where I live too so that could prove useful... Thanks for the tip, it might be just what I need.
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