Ramblings of a former OW who is sad about some of the posts here...

[pureinheart]

I agree with this case being an exception: it's extremely difficult to be friends with someone who thinks that you are an unredeemable human being and doesn't respect opinions that don't match their own. That's one of the biggest reasons why when I do come here to LS I lurk; many people here don't know how to "respectfully" agree to disagree and think that their opinions, values, and theirs alone are 100% right, and if you don't agree, you're 100% wrong. Very sad because I enjoy a good debate!

 

Correct me if I'm wrong CN, although I think it's the M that she sees as unredeemable, not the people.

 

CL, I thought about it after she said that, and my thoughts went to King David and his A with Bathsheba...they ended up together due to him having her H killed in battle...they had a baby and lost the baby, just a whole lot of strife in the family, one son raped his sister...just all kinds of stuff...I think that is what CN is talking about, that things don't go so good in some cases.

 

I'm one of the ones that in defense got out of line in the past, although in reading those that could debate no matter what kind of fire they were under and still remain calm totally impressed me ...man it's hard not to get freaked out.

 

Having seen a lot of understanding take place during debates as there have been BS's that absolutely hated OW/OM and vice vera, have now come to understand the others POV...it's really cool to see.

 

In bold, I'm sure I've been guilty of that too, but again trying...I think my triggers are the dog pile affect...the ones where everyong tells you what a piece of sh*t you are for your opinion...I totally hate that...hey, say I'm wrong, although don't cut me down and be sarcastic:)

[complicatedlife]

:DI am sure you will get a pm shortly about my over the top faith. :DWhile Califnan and I might share our faith differently with others I absolutely understand where she is coming from. I can't separate my faith from how I think or feel. It dictates my actions. I am firm believer in the power of forgiveness for those who honestly seek it. I also know that I haven't been exempted from my consequences because I was forgiven.

 

I don't think that is Califnan's intent to purposely insult either.

Lol @ the PM comment. As for the bolded, maaaaaybe!

[Mombot]

There's a difference between religion and law, morality and legally.

[complicatedlife]

Yup, it's a sin to have an affair.

 

It's also a sin to treat your S like crap, especially after you promised in front of God and everybody you would love/honor/cherish them for the rest of your life.

 

So now are we going to start pointing out each other's sins, taking each other's inventory? We'd be here a l-l-l-l-o-o-o-o-n-n-n-g time with that.

 

No, I got enough on my plate to keep up with you people too.

 

And besides, I think complicated said it best in her opening post:

 

Say WORD- on everything, especially the bolded part! If you wanna keep being spiritualm the Good Book does say, "He who is without sin, let him cast the first stone."

[complicatedlife]

Correct me if I'm wrong CN, although I think it's the M that she sees as unredeemable, not the people.

 

CL, I thought about it after she said that, and my thoughts went to King David and his A with Bathsheba...they ended up together due to him having her H killed in battle...they had a baby and lost the baby, just a whole lot of strife in the family, one son raped his sister...just all kinds of stuff...I think that is what CN is talking about, that things don't go so good in some cases.

 

I'm one of the ones that in defense got out of line in the past, although in reading those that could debate no matter what kind of fire they were under and still remain calm totally impressed me ...man it's hard not to get freaked out.

 

Having seen a lot of understanding take place during debates as there have been BS's that absolutely hated OW/OM and vice vera, have now come to understand the others POV...it's really cool to see.

 

In bold, I'm sure I've been guilty of that too, but again trying...I think my triggers are the dog pile affect...the ones where everyong tells you what a piece of sh*t you are for your opinion...I totally hate that...hey, say I'm wrong, although don't cut me down and be sarcastic:)

 

Somewhere in some thread I have read where she called an OW - not the marriage unredeemable - how else could someone interpret that the OW now thinks she is "honorable"? That means she can NEVER be made honroable, yes? She has used words such as opportunist, comments such as "Well, the OW is special, remember?" From where I sit, seems like insults to me...

 

As for the rest of what you wrote...

 

Pureinheart! Darn!! I was thinking the exact same thing! King David was a man that God said was after "His own heart", yet David sure did still sin...that stuff with Bathsheba ands Uriah was SERIOUS. And, yes, God was NOT pleased. But can we see how God was displeased with the BEHAVIOR and still LOVED David, even though David had to face the consequences of his actions? God STILL loved David and allowed Jesus to still come from his family line, even though he sinned. Sorry about that little Sunday School thing, but, I just had to get into that since you read my mind: if David could be forgiven, why can't OWs, OMs, MMs, and MWs be forgiven, too? Why do some people continue to hold them in contempt when God surely does not?

[complicatedlife]

There's a difference between religion and law, morality and legally.

 

Yes, and? Keep going, please, I want to understand the basis of this statement as it relates to the posts here...

[bentnotbroken]

Somewhere in some thread I have read where she called an OW - not the marriage unredeemable - how else could someone interpret that the OW now thinks she is "honorable"? That means she can NEVER be made honroable, yes? She has used words such as opportunist, comments such as "Well, the OW is special, remember?" From where I sit, seems like insults to me...

 

As for the rest of what you wrote...

 

Pureinheart! Darn!! I was thinking the exact same thing! King David was a man that God said was after "His own heart", yet David sure did still sin...that stuff with Bathsheba ands Uriah was SERIOUS. And, yes, God was NOT pleased. But can we see how God was displeased with the BEHAVIOR and still LOVED David, even though David had to face the consequences of his actions? God STILL loved David and allowed Jesus to still come from his family line, even though he sinned. Sorry about that little Sunday School thing, but, I just had to get into that since you read my mind: if David could be forgiven, why can't OWs, OMs, MMs, and MWs be forgiven, too? Why do some people continue to hold them in contempt when God surely does not?

 

 

I can only speak for myself, but for me it isn't about finding contempt with the person, but more with the state of entitlement & fake helplessness that is sometimes portrayed by AP and MP.

[califnan]

To live as man and wife when one or both partners have previous spouses that are still alive, is to live in adultery.

 

You are building a new relationship on a false foundation that Jesus calls adultery.

 

Luke 16:18

[complicatedlife]

To live as man and wife when one or both partners have previous spouses that are still alive, is to live in adultery.

 

You are building a new relationship on a false foundation that Jesus calls adultery.

 

Luke 16:18

 

You know, this is going WAY above and beyond the intent of this post, but I'm a sucker for a debate, particularly theological ones as I was raised in a house with a minister and theologian.

 

You can quote verses in favor of YOUR theory of "never divorcing unless there is a death" as you've done above, and there are verses I can quote which show divorce and marriage is indeed allowed:

 

Deuteronomy 24:1-2-When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man’s wife.

[complicatedlife]

I can only speak for myself, but for me it isn't about finding contempt with the person, but more with the state of entitlement & fake helplessness that is sometimes portrayed by AP and MP.

I can't and won't debate a fair statement; I do see that from time to time.

[fooled once]

I decided to start an entire new thread because I didn't want to do the whole thread-jacking thing.

 

Please forgive my use of titles such as OW, WS, etc...I don't like to use them, but they make life easier for writing here on LS.

 

When I read some of the thought patterns of some of the OWs here, I felt disenheartened. I can't understand why some of the women here blindly believe their MMs. Did I believe my MM when he used to tell me about how it "really was" at home? Yes. And no. The love I felt in my heart for him as well as my hope that he was indeed being honest with me because he loved me compelled me to believe him. My mind, on the other hand, (as well as my cousin who is a marriage and family therapist) was screaming, "No! Don't believe anything he says! He loved his wife, married her, and is now lying to her; what makes YOU any different?" I always, always had an element of doubt about his "truth". And even now that I know that most of the things that I was told while the affair was going on were true, I STILL, to this day, will be in the dark about what REALLY went on in that house between the two of them; the only people who really and truly know is my BF and his ex. The blind faith that I see some OWs giving here is not only unrealistic, it's unhealthy.

 

Also, in regards to telling children the initmate details of their parents' relationship in the event of a D-Day or a "confession" day, it really depends on the age and maturity of the child; I personally don't think it's a good idea if the kids aren't at least pre-teen age. But I believe that it is of the utmost importance for BOTH parents to have that sit down talk with the children together, after they have both discussed it with each other. Maybe the BS can sit at the table while the WS answers the questions the children will surely ask as to why the parents are having difficulty. I don't think it's right that the BS should make unilateral decisions about ANYTHING that involves their kids. The parents may not have their *ish right with each other, but they need to stand together and get their *ish right when it comes to those children.

 

Lastly, to go back to my first point: no matter how much "truth" I was told about the details of the marriage/relationship, it never, ever gave me peace, comfort, or happiness to know that he stlll went home to her everyday, had dinner as a family everyday, slept in the same bed as her everyday. Even if I had a tape recorder and video tape in their bedroom for every night of our affair that provided evidence that nothing ever went on between him and his ex, he wasn't with ME. And that hurt like hell. I received as much attention as he could give me and he also stepped up to do whatever I asked/needed the few times that I complained, but it never consoled me at night. Or on holidays. Thank God there were no vacations to worry about. It was certainly a full time love, but most certainly a part time relationship in the physical sense, and I can't wrap my head around how that can be "okay" with an OW - how does that not slowly make you die a little everyday inside? As you develop more feelings and grow closer with time, it's just natural that you will want to spend more time with him...when that happens and you do nothing about it but accept the status quo, that is when the tides turn, and he knows he has the power. Don't give your power away. Stand up for what you really want, whatever that is, and accept nothing less- if it's that you're tired, move on, if you want HIM full time, then tell him that; if he doesn't make a move to give you what you want, then he doesn't really want YOU.

 

Be strong, have courage, and pray, if you believe in a higher being.

 

CL

 

Very good post. Thank you for taking the time to write out your thoughts.

 

My perspective now is a bit different. I think it boils down to what God or your Higher Power teaches you is right.

 

Ditto!

 

The poster you were speaking with was left by her XH and he then married the OW.

 

So that's why she doesn't like to hear about when it works out between the MM and the OW.

 

EEG

 

Yep

[complicatedlife]

Very good post. Thank you for taking the time to write out your thoughts.

 

You're welcome, and.....HI!!! How are ya?

[fooled once]

You're welcome, and.....HI!!! How are ya?

 

Doing great! Had some big things happen this week and so H and I are on vacation and celebrating!! How about you?

[NoIDidn't]

You know, this is going WAY above and beyond the intent of this post, but I'm a sucker for a debate, particularly theological ones as I was raised in a house with a minister and theologian.

 

You can quote verses in favor of YOUR theory of "never divorcing unless there is a death" as you've done above, and there are verses I can quote which show divorce and marriage is indeed allowed:

 

Deuteronomy 24:1-2-When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man’s wife.

 

Yeah, but I didn't read the part between the bolded lines where it says "let him commit adultery before he gives her the bill of divorcement".

[complicatedlife]

Doing great! Had some big things happen this week and so H and I are on vacation and celebrating!! How about you?

I'm great, thanks, and happy to hear you and your H are doing well. I'm just here trying to be a good girl, as you can see!.

 

Happy celebrating and vacationing!

[complicatedlife]

Yeah' date=' but[/b'] I didn't read the part between the bolded lines where it says "let him commit adultery before he gives her the bill of divorcement".

Come on, NID!! Love the bold....

 

The point is that for every verse that a person wants to use to support what they believe, there's a verse to support what someone else's faith calls them to believe.

 

Btw...there's a verse on what you sarcastically wrote as well, FYI.

[NoIDidn't]

Pureinheart! Darn!! I was thinking the exact same thing! King David was a man that God said was after "His own heart", yet David sure did still sin...that stuff with Bathsheba ands Uriah was SERIOUS. And, yes, God was NOT pleased. But can we see how God was displeased with the BEHAVIOR and still LOVED David, even though David had to face the consequences of his actions? God STILL loved David and allowed Jesus to still come from his family line, even though he sinned. Sorry about that little Sunday School thing, but, I just had to get into that since you read my mind: if David could be forgiven, why can't OWs, OMs, MMs, and MWs be forgiven, too? Why do some people continue to hold them in contempt when God surely does not?

 

Not that I hold anyone in "contempt", just wanted to comment on this:

 

I recall David writing something that went "Create in me a clean heart, and renew a right spirit within me" in response to seeing what he had done in bedding Bathsheba and killing her H. He said that his sin was always in front of him ("ever before him"). David repented. THAT is why God forgave him.

 

I can't say that I've actually read many OW/MM/OM in the thick of harming others or giving excuses for what they have done, doing that. Its not enough to ask for forgiveness when one isn't going to "turn away" (repent) from what they have done. King David did just that.

 

(Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that OPs/APs need to come to the boards in "ashes and sackcloth" to prove a change of heart and report repenting to me as I am just an anonymous poster here. Just stating what I believe to be the reason that God and King David stayed somewhat cool. Personally, I don't think its fair or even close to accurate for those in affairs, currently in them actively commiting adultery as described by most religions, to quote King David's ordeal as he IMMEDIATELY stopped once CONDEMNED by the Prophet Samuel. I don't see anyone here stopping once confronted and their actions condemned. There is a HUGE difference.)

[NoIDidn't]

Come on, NID!! Love the bold....

 

The point is that for every verse that a person wants to use to support what they believe, there's a verse to support what someone else's faith calls them to believe.

 

Btw...there's a verse on what you sarcastically wrote as well, FYI.

 

Why do you assume sarcasm? I was serious. There is no "commit adultery" verse in the Bible. Unless, of course, you truncate the "Thou shalt not" from it in Deut..

 

LOL.

[NoIDidn't]

Come on, NID!! Love the bold....

 

The point is that for every verse that a person wants to use to support what they believe, there's a verse to support what someone else's faith calls them to believe.

 

Btw...there's a verse on what you sarcastically wrote as well, FYI.

 

Oh, and to add, I agree that the Bible can be used to support just about any view that a person chooses to take, it doesn't change the fact that it does not condone what we call "cheating" in this forum.

 

The best most can lay hold onto is "don't judge me", which is usually very pertinent. But not for the reasons that many use it for, IMO. I'm probably giving ammunition to those that I vehemently disagree with when it comes to what I view as twisting scripture to their own purposes, but Jesus did say not to be so concerned about the moat in your brother's eye when you have a BEAM in yours.

 

Its always an interesting debate, nonetheless.

[califnan]

You know, this is going WAY above and beyond the intent of this post, but I'm a sucker for a debate, particularly theological ones as I was raised in a house with a minister and theologian.

 

You can quote verses in favor of YOUR theory of "never divorcing unless there is a death" as you've done above, and there are verses I can quote which show divorce and marriage is indeed allowed:

 

Deuteronomy 24:1-2-When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man’s wife.

 

---------------

 

Because of a need for faithfulness between spouses, Moses permitted divorce if there was marital (sexual) unfaithfulness. The innocent spouse was free to remarry. The unfaithful spouse was not free to remarry - or committed adultery, if to remarry..

[NoIDidn't]

---------------

 

Because of a need for faithfulness between spouses, Moses permitted divorce if there was marital (sexual) unfaithfulness. The innocent spouse was free to remarry. The unfaithful spouse was not free to remarry - or committed adultery, if to remarry..

 

The scripture that quoted about the bill of divorcement states if "uncleanness" was found in her. The aramaic translation of that word "uncleanness" means shameful exposure (or nakedness) and implies sexual "uncleanness" to a degree. It doesn't mean if she wasn't the perfect W, or if she's a horrible woman to him.

 

It still fits with what Jesus said, that divorce is permitted for sexual infidelity. And a woman could be found guilty of this even before the marriage was carried out (hence Joseph thinking about quietly not marrying Mary when she was found pregnant - proof of infidelity).

 

(I hope you don't mind this CL, its so interesting to me. I'm not commenting to condemn anyone, just to share my interpretation.)

[califnan]

(hence Joseph thinking about quietly not marrying Mary when she was found pregnant - proof of infidelity).

 

(QUOTE]

 

-----------------------

 

Not infidelity. It is known as the virgin birth.

[NoIDidn't]

(hence Joseph thinking about quietly not marrying Mary when she was found pregnant - proof of infidelity).

 

(QUOTE]

 

-----------------------

 

Not infidelity. It is known as the virgin birth.

 

C'mon, Califnan. I know that. I was talking about Joseph's mindset BEFORE the visit by the Angel. Geez.

 

...who you gonna believe? me or your lying eyes.....lol

[complicatedlife]

Why do you assume sarcasm? I was serious. There is no "commit adultery" verse in the Bible. Unless, of course, you truncate the "Thou shalt not" from it in Deut..

 

LOL.

 

Sorry,NID- thought you were being sarcastic. For the record, there's quite a few "commit adultery" verses in the Bible...

[complicatedlife]

---------------

 

Because of a need for faithfulness between spouses, Moses permitted divorce if there was marital (sexual) unfaithfulness. The innocent spouse was free to remarry. The unfaithful spouse was not free to remarry - or committed adultery, if to remarry..

 

Guess what? We are no longer under the law of Moses.