pureinheart Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 This is also interesting! Let's be realistic here. Wasn't she exposing her cheating H to his OW son? Was there ever any room for "consideration" towards anyone to begin with? Sometimes people ask to receive way too much of what they have not given. Many times in life the hand we are dealt is unfair...where the real test lies is how we handle it.
Ellin Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Whoa! Wait a minute. That totally negates your love triangle thing (which didn't make sense to me as an answer to that question anyway). The BS (whether one or two of them) are not willingly involved nor (usually) informed either that they are involved in a love triangle. So why are they different than the children who are also affected? That doesn't make sense to me. That's because a relationship with a parent is a completely different thing than a relationship with a spouse. A R with a parent is as close blood bond as it can be. We have one mother and one father and this is something that will never change. They can be also parents of other people and it will stillnot change the fact that they are our parents. They can have different R of any kind with other people and they're still our mother/father. A marriage, on the other hand, is based on emotions, promises, decisions and committments, so something of a completey different nature and less "solid" than ties of blood. And most importantly it is based on EXCLUSIVITY. Gosh... isn't that SO obvious..
Ellin Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 I love this quote because personally, I think there is truth to this statement. Anyone agree with that? Disagree? And why? Seems to have hit quite a few nerves;)
SidLyon Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 I haven't even finished reading this thread yet, but to clarify a few points. First of all there is still some doubt of the paternity of the younger son. The OW has refused my H's request for a paternity test. My H is not pursuing it through the Family Court (and he could do this). My own children and also my in-laws would also have rights to pursue it legally. Without getting too sidetracked if people believe they have an "interest" in a child (such as a disputed father, half-siblings or grandparents) they can request the FC to determine paternity. My intention is that he be informed when he too is an adult. Both he and my own children have the right to know whether they are brothers. I did not give any details of sexual activity to the BH's adult son and parents, other than that that sex had occurred which put in dispute the paternity of the younger son. The OW has remained adamant that the boy is her deceased husband's and that she confirmed her pregnancy the day before she and my H first had sex. By the way perhaps one of the unapologetic OW can explain to me why an OW would do this. To me it seems utterly inexplicable that a pregnant woman would deliberately cast into doubt the paternity of her unborn child. I did not inform anybody of anything at the funnel. The funeral was 5 months before d-day. My motivations in exposing: well there's the obvious in that exposure shines the light of day on the A. It enable everyone to know what is happening. I hoped to embarrass the OW into acknowledging her own part in all this to people she had betrayed. Depending on the situation at the time, various members of my family will probably contact the younger son once he is old enough to consent to a paternity test himself. At least his older brother can forewarn him of the possibility. Jennie you repeatedly asked whether I considered the benefits to the son and parent-in-law of the OW. Actually I did consider there were benefits to them (as above ie knowledge and information on which they could choose to conduct their lives or ignore as they choose). There was also the possibility that they would be very angry and upset at their mother/daughter in law's betrayal. This was between the betraying party and the betrayed - just like your repeated reiterations about your MM and his BW. My H actively participated in assisting her in this betrayal but even the most convoluted/twisted argument could not say I assisted in that betrayal. But then again you don't seem to consider the benefits to your MM's BW and family either and you choose to actively participate in their betrayal. I'm glad I don't have anything like that on my conscience as it would turn me into a person I don't want to be. I find it reprehensible that "moral indignation" is being reigned down on me for my actions. For those that agree with the original post it must be demonstrating extreme jealously in proportion to the fuss being made. I still don't agree generically with the original post but some of you are really trying to prove the truth of it I think.
jennie-jennie Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Whoa! Wait a minute. That totally negates your love triangle thing (which didn't make sense to me as an answer to that question anyway). The BS (whether one or two of them) are not willingly involved nor (usually) informed either that they are involved in a love triangle. So why are they different than the children who are also affected? That doesn't make sense to me. The MP is in a relationship with two men/women, not with any children. The children are affected by their father/mother having a relationship with two men/women, but they are not participating in these relationships.
jennie-jennie Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 (edited) I haven't even finished reading this thread yet, but to clarify a few points. First of all there is still some doubt of the paternity of the younger son. The OW has refused my H's request for a paternity test. My H is not pursuing it through the Family Court (and he could do this). My own children and also my in-laws would also have rights to pursue it legally. Without getting too sidetracked if people believe they have an "interest" in a child (such as a disputed father, half-siblings or grandparents) they can request the FC to determine paternity. My intention is that he be informed when he too is an adult. Both he and my own children have the right to know whether they are brothers. I did not give any details of sexual activity to the BH's adult son and parents, other than that that sex had occurred which put in dispute the paternity of the younger son. The OW has remained adamant that the boy is her deceased husband's and that she confirmed her pregnancy the day before she and my H first had sex. By the way perhaps one of the unapologetic OW can explain to me why an OW would do this. To me it seems utterly inexplicable that a pregnant woman would deliberately cast into doubt the paternity of her unborn child. I did not inform anybody of anything at the funnel. The funeral was 5 months before d-day. My motivations in exposing: well there's the obvious in that exposure shines the light of day on the A. It enable everyone to know what is happening. I hoped to embarrass the OW into acknowledging her own part in all this to people she had betrayed. Depending on the situation at the time, various members of my family will probably contact the younger son once he is old enough to consent to a paternity test himself. At least his older brother can forewarn him of the possibility. Jennie you repeatedly asked whether I considered the benefits to the son and parent-in-law of the OW. Actually I did consider there were benefits to them (as above ie knowledge and information on which they could choose to conduct their lives or ignore as they choose). There was also the possibility that they would be very angry and upset at their mother/daughter in law's betrayal. This was between the betraying party and the betrayed - just like your repeated reiterations about your MM and his BW. My H actively participated in assisting her in this betrayal but even the most convoluted/twisted argument could not say I assisted in that betrayal. But then again you don't seem to consider the benefits to your MM's BW and family either and you choose to actively participate in their betrayal. I'm glad I don't have anything like that on my conscience as it would turn me into a person I don't want to be. I find it reprehensible that "moral indignation" is being reigned down on me for my actions. For those that agree with the original post it must be demonstrating extreme jealously in proportion to the fuss being made. I still don't agree generically with the original post but some of you are really trying to prove the truth of it I think. I am trying to understand what you are saying here. Is it your opinion that anyone other than the now diseased husband was betrayed by the MOW? Perhaps we need a new abbreviation on LS then: BC = betrayed children. Didn't you say something about the affair being conducted during the lunch hours? That sounded to me like more details than you are claiming to have given here. That made at least me think of a quickie during lunch hours, but perhaps that was just my own imagination. Edited July 23, 2010 by jennie-jennie
Ellin Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 My motivations in exposing: well there's the obvious in that exposure shines the light of day on the A. It enable everyone to know what is happening. I hoped to embarrass the OW into acknowledging her own part in all this to people she had betrayed. So there is an obvious vindictive element. You wanted to "get her", no matter who else would get hurt. I know SHE was the OW, and you "only" told the truth but was no need for that, especially as it was all in the past and the man had just died!! There was a thread here recently where all "morally indignant" posters had a go at Jennie because she said she felt she had a right to go to MM's funeral. Everyone had a field day going on about how wrong it would be to reveal it to the MM's family after his death... The only justification here could be the paternity issue but you only said it now in a "by the way" sort of manner and it sounds more like an excuse than your primary motivation.
bentnotbroken Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Where did this come from? JJ's kids do know her intimate partner. And it is wrong (and quite frankly gross) to tell children about your sexual relationship. Also, teenagers don't even want to THINK about their parents having sex. I can't imagine a responsible parent sharing sexual escapades with a child or teenager for that matter. It is inappropriate and they are not developmentally ready for it. Adult issues should remain between adults. They are the only ones capable of handling them. It says that you are making the right choice to not involve children with every issue in your life. EEG Allow to me introduce myself BNB irresponisble parent, by your estimation. I not only discussed sexual issues with my then teens, it started when they asked the first questions about sex. Yes I discussed my teen exploits, the reasons for those choices and the consequences of those choices. My reasons for discussing my sexual history was to inform them of the time frame, late 70's early 80's, and the things that I didn't have to deal with(AIDS) and the things I did(pregnancy scare). I discussed with my children sex because I raised them and not only were they mature enough to handle each discussion we had, each discussion was more detailed than the last based on their matureity level. I recognize some people raise their children more sheltered in different areas of life...for me sex wasn't one of those areas. I only wish I had been more open with them about myt emotional difficulities so as to answer some of the questions about my mood swings. Not all teens are grossed out by discussing sex nor discussing it with parents. That response is generated by the parents attitudes toward sex. And frankly I find it gross that people who are involved with married people feel it is okay to introduce their children to someone else's spouse. So while you may question the parenting skills of a parent who won't lie or hide their sex life with their spouse, I question the parent who won't hide their affair from their children with another's spouse. To each his own I guess. Lastly, as evidenced on this site, even adults can't handle adult issues. Age is only one compenent when dealing with life maturely.
bentnotbroken Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Seems to have hit quite a few nerves;) Why do you feel that way? She asked a question. Does anyone disagree/agree why? Wasn't that what she wanted answers to her question? Correct me if I am wrong.
jthorne Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 Gosh... isn't that SO obvious..Gosh... I really wonder what some people hope to achieve by being SO condescending and rude...
bentnotbroken Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 You're right. It is a different thing. It's called parental alienation. And if the couple divorces and a parent can prove that another parent tried to alienate their R with the child, the custodial parent can lose custody. Telling the children such things has one goal: to turn the children against the other parent. If the adult cannot deal with the infidelity, why in the world would you want to throw that on a child? EEG Do you have children? If not I fail to see how you at any point know what each parent considers and for the reasons they consider them. I told them the answers to the questions they had....after THEY discovered their father's affair. Should I have lied? For who's sake? His? Theirs? Mine? The truth is the one thing that will always prevail and enough lies had been told.
Fieldsofgold Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 Nobody asked Sid to cover for cheaters. The question is why she is running around exposing them not taking into consideration what harm she might be causing in doing so. If this weren't so genuinely pathetic, it would make me laugh. The WS and the OW were not giving a rip about what harm they might be causing by having the affair in the first place. But they want the BS to take into consideration what harm she might do by telling the adult son????? I dare say that having the affair in the first place did infinitely more harm then the BS telling. What I am taking away from this thread is that moral indignation has nothing to do with jealousy. It's all about what wrong we ourselves, personally didn't commit. As in, I can create or significantly contribute to betrayal, devastation, destruction and mayhem in a family, and that's ok. But I will be morally indignant if you tell someone what I did!
bentnotbroken Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 My opinion though is that even adult children should only be informed by their parents, either both or one of them, certainly not by the MOP's BS. And my opinion is that even adult children shouldn't have to be informed by either their parents or a third party of an affair because both parents took seriously the term faithful. But since we both know we don't live in a perfect world....our opinions are just that.....O*P*I*N*I*O*N*S.
bentnotbroken Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 Nobody asked Sid to cover for cheaters. The question is why she is running around exposing them not taking into consideration what harm she might be causing in doing so. :lmao::lmao:You are kidding right?:lmao::lmao:What cheating spouse considers anyone but themselves and on occasion the AP? Why is it that everyone else can do what is good and what they believe is healthy for them but the BS has to live in a way that almost inhuman. Anger, sometimes revenge, sometimes progressing healing are all parts of why a BS may do something to piss of an WS/AP. Did anyone consider that when a BS tells of an affair and what they are going through it may be less about looking for sympathy and more from just getting sick of holding it in. And when your life has been betrayed how do you discuss the fallout without discussing the person who shoveled the sh***? Partners lives are entertwined, what one does affects the other. So do you only tell part of your life to protect the others life choices(including affair partner)? Or is a BS entitled to say what they please about their life? Is that yet another thing that a WS will dictate?
SidLyon Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 (edited) So there is an obvious vindictive element. You wanted to "get her", no matter who else would get hurt. I know SHE was the OW, and you "only" told the truth but was no need for that, especially as it was all in the past and the man had just died!! There was a thread here recently where all "morally indignant" posters had a go at Jennie because she said she felt she had a right to go to MM's funeral. Everyone had a field day going on about how wrong it would be to reveal it to the MM's family after his death... The only justification here could be the paternity issue but you only said it now in a "by the way" sort of manner and it sounds more like an excuse than your primary motivation. Ok more facts. Please bear in mind I never put all my facts/situation out there for you all to comment on in this thread. It obviously took off overnight while I was asleep. The first affair with the OW started in February 2002 and ended nearly 4 years later. The baby was born October 2002. In early 2008 the OW contacted my H and they had lunch together on Valentines day. After that they continued contact and were certainly in an EA again even if it did not become physical. The BH died and his funeral was in May 2008. The EA continued. D-day was in October 2008. I did not contact the BH's parents and adult son until March 2009 and May 2009 respectively once the "trickle truth" had established the possibility that my H might be the father of the baby (now nearly 8 years old). I had already told the OW I would not tell her adult son provided she stayed away from my H - but she couldn't - in early May 2009 she asked my H to meet with her behind my back and begged him not to tell me she phoned him. He did tell me so I kept my "promise" to her by telling her son of the A. I didn't give all the facts in my earlier posts because they didn't seem relevant to the original post which was about moral indignation - and there's a lot of it being shown here. Nor was I asking for comment about my situation. I don't mind you all discussing it but please don't just assume that this all happened straight after the death or d-day. It's been nearly 2 years since d-day. Oh yes while I told the adult son (via e-mail) that there was sex I did also say it was in lunchtimes - oh... and I also told him about their supposed business trip together. I never provided any details of the sex acts. Edited July 24, 2010 by SidLyon
Mimolicious Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 Sid does not need to expose the affair to be able to have a relationship with the man she loves. Thus the two situations do not compare. I am not asking for anything for myself. Since my SO, my children and my parents knew from the very start of the affair, it would have been redundant for the BS in my case to tell anyone close to me. Unless the White-out at work is messing my cells up... wasn't Sid the BS here???
Mimolicious Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 Sid does not need to expose the affair to be able to have a relationship with the man she loves. Thus the two situations do not compare. I am not asking for anything for myself. Since my SO, my children and my parents knew from the very start of the affair, it would have been redundant for the BS in my case to tell anyone close to me. In reality the BS in your case can tell whoever. Thing is that it will be "yesterday's news" if she told your family since they already know. She's the only idiot sitting in the dark. That SUCKS big monkey balls to be in that position. The day she finds out... OH MY!! X_X
jennie-jennie Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 Unless the White-out at work is messing my cells up... wasn't Sid the BS here??? Yes, she was. It just seems to me that posters are questioning why I am questioning Sid's behavior, as if I had a personal interest in the situation at hand. So what I am saying is that Sid's situation does not apply to a situation like mine where everybody close to me already knows of the affair, and thus there is no personal motivation from my part.
jennie-jennie Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 In reality the BS in your case can tell whoever. Thing is that it will be "yesterday's news" if she told your family since they already know. She's the only idiot sitting in the dark. That SUCKS big monkey balls to be in that position. The day she finds out... OH MY!! X_X Since I have been the BS, I agree. In fact it was even worse for me, since all our friends knew of the affair but not I. My MM and I do not share friends, so that is not the case here. Boy, did I feel like an idiot. Once again, I would never keep my SO/spouse in the dark like my MM does.
SidLyon Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 Quote: Originally Posted by jennie-jennie Sid does not need to expose the affair to be able to have a relationship with the man she loves. Thus the two situations do not compare. I am not asking for anything for myself. Since my SO, my children and my parents knew from the very start of the affair, it would have been redundant for the BS in my case to tell anyone close to me. Unless the White-out at work is messing my cells up... wasn't Sid the BS here??? Yes and in fact we being very successful at re-establishing our relationship. We have just been out to breakfast together and last night went to a great jazz evening. All is good on that front. Much of what I've posted about in this thread is very much in the past. Unfortunately it can't be entirely relegated to the category of "past hurts" because of the possibility of the boy being my husband's child but nevertheless it is his decision currently to do nothing until the boy is older. I merely posted yesterday in response the the topic of moral indignation and jealousy with a small anecdote and it developed (overnight while I was asleep here in Australia) into a full-scale examination of what purportedly happened, with several people not even noticing they didn't have all the facts and others, filling in the facts wrongly and others assuming somehow that these were correct.
Jilly Bean Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 I think what I was trying to get at - is that there are people out there who LOVE to negate people's successes and stomp on their happiness. Whether it's a job promotion (he got the job because of his father) or a new love interest (she's with him for the money not love) or something else. Coveting and being envious has nothing to do with moral indignation, however. There are plenty of people who are unhappy, and will crap on others success and happiness because of it, but it really has nothing to do with a personal moral code.
pureinheart Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 Ok more facts. Please bear in mind I never put all my facts/situation out there for you all to comment on in this thread. It obviously took off overnight while I was asleep. The first affair with the OW started in February 2002 and ended nearly 4 years later. The baby was born October 2002. In early 2008 the OW contacted my H and they had lunch together on Valentines day. After that they continued contact and were certainly in an EA again even if it did not become physical. The BH died and his funeral was in May 2008. The EA continued. D-day was in October 2008. I did not contact the BH's parents and adult son until March 2009 and May 2009 respectively once the "trickle truth" had established the possibility that my H might be the father of the baby (now nearly 8 years old). I had already told the OW I would not tell her adult son provided she stayed away from my H - but she couldn't - in early May 2009 she asked my H to meet with her behind my back and begged him not to tell me she phoned him. He did tell me so I kept my "promise" to her by telling her son of the A. I didn't give all the facts in my earlier posts because they didn't seem relevant to the original post which was about moral indignation - and there's a lot of it being shown here. Nor was I asking for comment about my situation. I don't mind you all discussing it but please don't just assume that this all happened straight after the death or d-day. It's been nearly 2 years since d-day. Oh yes while I told the adult son (via e-mail) that there was sex I did also say it was in lunchtimes - oh... and I also told him about their supposed business trip together. I never provided any details of the sex acts. Sid, for real, is all of this worth it...it sounds like tit for tat...I take it your H didn't meet with her. Sid, this will only hurt you in the long run as it sounds like much fear. How does telling her son and family help your situation...in all actuality it could make you look bad. Nothing can change what happened, although you can change your future and not let this past stuff hinder your future...I really do see it as a continuous hinderence...so what if she contacts him...if he has an A, well that's on him...personally I'd be dealing with him...hey home boy...see her again and (you fill in the blank). She still has a hold on you...don't let it bother you...if you know who you are and not let her contacting him threaten you...you win.
Mimolicious Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 Yes, she was. It just seems to me that posters are questioning why I am questioning Sid's behavior, as if I had a personal interest in the situation at hand. So what I am saying is that Sid's situation does not apply to a situation like mine where everybody close to me already knows of the affair, and thus there is no personal motivation from my part. Gotcha! For a minute it read as Sid was just a complete intruder that put someone else's business on blast. (didn't want to think that I wasted my time of a thread missing the point. lol!)
SidLyon Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 Sid, for real, is all of this worth it...it sounds like tit for tat...I take it your H didn't meet with her. Sid, this will only hurt you in the long run as it sounds like much fear. How does telling her son and family help your situation...in all actuality it could make you look bad. Nothing can change what happened, although you can change your future and not let this past stuff hinder your future...I really do see it as a continuous hinderence...so what if she contacts him...if he has an A, well that's on him...personally I'd be dealing with him...hey home boy...see her again and (you fill in the blank). She still has a hold on you...don't let it bother you...if you know who you are and not let her contacting him threaten you...you win. See my previous post.
jennie-jennie Posted July 24, 2010 Posted July 24, 2010 Yes and in fact we being very successful at re-establishing our relationship. We have just been out to breakfast together and last night went to a great jazz evening. All is good on that front. Much of what I've posted about in this thread is very much in the past. Unfortunately it can't be entirely relegated to the category of "past hurts" because of the possibility of the boy being my husband's child but nevertheless it is his decision currently to do nothing until the boy is older. I merely posted yesterday in response the the topic of moral indignation and jealousy with a small anecdote and it developed (overnight while I was asleep here in Australia) into a full-scale examination of what purportedly happened, with several people not even noticing they didn't have all the facts and others, filling in the facts wrongly and others assuming somehow that these were correct. I am wondering about the grandparents who now don't know if the boy really is their grandchild or not. It must be awful for them.
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