solo123 Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Background - We had an amazing relationship full of closeness and it felt right/'real' in a way that can't be fixed. Were together for four months and started off fast and started talking serious fast. No games, met the family, etc. She works 70 hours a week but still made time to see me most all weekend, one night during the week, nightly calls, texts, etc. She cooked whenever I was around, was affectionate to the point of basically living in my arms, and honestly we shared something amazing. Problems - She's not the best at communicating, especially in conflict. I had relationship anxiety and would always dig and analyze things, something she couldn't handle well. I gave a lot, and expected a lot, which she could deliver 'over time' but I was always impatient digging into things, making her questions herself and her issues and past relationships to make sure she can 'love right' instead of just loving her over time and letting our actions dictate things. The split - The night after a midnight talk from me about commitment and how I've been disappointed in the past when people don't keep their word, I left her place to go to work with all seemingly well. That night she called and said that she can't be in this relationship right now because she's not sure how committed she is and doesn't want to disappoint me in a year or so. Says she's not 'feeling' what she should be at this point, which I don't agree with because I felt it FROM her. Frame of reference - we're both mid 30's, she's only had two long relationships before this (one failed marriage, one long rebound) and I've had plenty. Trust me, we had something. Maybe she was scared of disappointing me down the road. Maybe she was worried that I'm the first guy that a life with/marriage with seemed real post-her divorce? Now- Split was 20 days ago. I did the 'wrong things' I guess - tried logic, kept pushing every few days on the phone. Of course, didn't work. Did casual texts every few days and tried to setup a casual coffee meeting or something. She's works a lot and has family in town for past week along with coming three weeks. Suggestions- I wake up every morning at 6'ish (hour before I need to) tossing and turning for past three weeks. I really don't want to do the whole 'no-contact' thing - if I saw her I think I could start reviving. Tips? I really want her to make time to see me but b/w work and her family staying at her place I think it's making it easier for HER to do NC and force herself to move on. Any good advice would be helpful. Yes, I work out, have tried dating others, etc. but this is truly one of the 50 or so people in every town that one can have an amazing life with, and I found one of my 50 after a LOT of work/dating and this is the one I want - and I hate the fact that I pushed her away with anxiety.
GrayClouds Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 (edited) Background - We had an amazing relationship full of closeness and it felt right/'real' in a way that can't be fixed. Were together for four months and started off fast and started talking serious fast. Problems - She's not the best at communicating, especially in conflict. I had relationship anxiety and would always dig and analyze things, something she couldn't handle well. I gave a lot, and expected a lot, which she could deliver 'over time' but I was always impatient digging into things, making her questions herself and her issues and past relationships to make sure she can 'love right' instead of just loving her over time and letting our actions dictate things. The split - The night after a midnight talk from me about commitment and how I've been disappointed in the past when people don't keep their word, I left her place to go to work with all seemingly well. That night she called and said that she can't be in this relationship right now because she's not sure how committed she is and doesn't want to disappoint me in a year or so. Says she's not 'feeling' what she should be at this point, which I don't agree with because I felt it FROM her. Frame of reference - we're both mid 30's, she's only had two long relationships before this (one failed marriage, one long rebound) and I've had plenty. Trust me, we had something. Maybe she was scared of disappointing me down the road. Maybe she was worried that I'm the first guy that a life with/marriage with seemed real post-her divorce? Now- Split was 20 days ago. I did the 'wrong things' I guess - tried logic, kept pushing every few days on the phone. Of course, didn't work. Did casual texts every few days and tried to setup a casual coffee meeting or something. She's works a lot and has family in town for past week along with coming three weeks. Suggestions- I wake up every morning at 6'ish (hour before I need to) tossing and turning for past three weeks. I really don't want to do the whole 'no-contact' thing - if I saw her I think I could start reviving. Tips? I really want her to make time to see me but b/w work and her family staying at her place I think it's making it easier for HER to do NC and force herself to move on. Any good advice would be helpful. Yes, I work out, have tried dating others, etc. but this is truly one of the 50 or so people in every town that one can have an amazing life with, and I found one of my 50 after a LOT of work/dating and this is the one I want - and I hate the fact that I pushed her away with anxiety. This is a case where your asking for a snack and your going to get a whole meal. I suggest as mom would say, "Eat, eat up, your looking thin. Your not going to have this amazing life with this person. In fact this "one in 50" does not even exist. You see her as they could br, someone as the should be, as you wish they would be but not for who she is. You were hoping "she would deliver in time" but those deliveries are not her, your wanting what she can not give. The amazement you felt was honeymoon, the time everyone ignores conflict because of excitement. It why great-grandpa told grandma to take it slow. This is one of the reason you now blaming her desire not to be with you on yourself. You thinking it must be you because it is easier then admitting the truth. You like depth and analytics she does not. This would always be a relationship where you were be pushing for more and she would always be stepping back. Pick up the book "Dance of Intimacy" for more insight. Go NC, stay out of dating for while, spend that time trying to understand why you feel you need to push someone to love you. Why that feels natural. Why you feel if you try hard enough, wait long enough, do all the right things the pinata will burst open and finally give you all of that sweetness you expected for your effort. Real love, healthy relationships are not that hard. Take some time to heal from this and past relationships that is still dicatating current behavior. If your waking up an hour early, get out of bad and go for a run, walk, go work out. I also suggest two other book highly: Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Anderson - Very good & useful "No More Mr Nice Guy" It may help clarify this "Pinata Pathosis". Take the book with a grain of salt but it is insightful. If you do these things, you will see this girl is not right for you and your next relationship will more of what you really want. Edited July 20, 2010 by GrayClouds
Author solo123 Posted July 20, 2010 Author Posted July 20, 2010 You're right in that I love psychoanalysis and depth/complexity, and she's completely the opposite. But I'll tell you, it aint' just rose-colored glasses - this girl showed me with her actions that which made me so happy. In four months never nagged about anything - I always brought up the issues, so of course she cracked. I've done a ton of reading recently trying to better myself - on love addiction (see a few of the symptoms,), controlling worry, learning about 'Five Love Languages (great read), etc. I was an amazing boyfriend to her, and now know I could be even better. I used to want to mold her to be my perfect woman. Now I know I don't need her to change, I just need her to be the same and keep her heart open and see how far we can take it.
GrayClouds Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 I was an amazing boyfriend to her, and now know I could be even better. I used to want to mold her to be my perfect woman. I suspect you were, and I do know you can be better, it just not with her. Even you deep down inside knows she was not your perfect women, and now your just feeling the after break-up desperation. You saying to yourself I will put up with all the stuff that was driving me crazy if I can be with her again. But in another few month it will all start to happen again. The premise of 'Five Love Languages' is great, but I suspect you came away thinking how you can adjust your language so she will hear you. How you can adapt. You do not have to, what you should have learned you need to find someone who easily speaks you language. It was only a 4 month relationship and your are already seeing crack in it. I had relationships with jars of peanut butter lasting almost long (oops, I do not think that sounded so good ). It is still the time when we are overwhelm by happy hormones, where what we "feel" distrotrs our thoughts. It fun, it great, but sadly it is not long term realty. It apparent your not ready to let go yet. Soon you will be, when that time comes I will again suggest: Go NC, stay out of dating for while, spend that time trying to understand why you feel you need to push someone to love you. Why that feels natural. Why you feel if you try hard enough, wait long enough, do all the right things the pinata will burst open and finally give you all of that sweetness you expected for your effort. Real love, healthy relationships are not that hard. Take some time to heal from this and past relationships that is still dicatating current behavior. Journey from Abandonment to Healing by Anderson - Very good & useful "No More Mr Nice Guy" It may help clarify this "Pinata Pathosis". Take the book with a grain of salt but it is insightful. One question, what is the longest you have been single at one time?
Author solo123 Posted July 20, 2010 Author Posted July 20, 2010 To answer your question, after a significant relationship a few years back I did take a full 4-5 months of being single. Honestly though, it was a dark period and not looking to revisit that. I have perspective, mid-30's, have had many relationships some of which have lasted years. I honestly see my cause of this one's demise and am willing/have done some of the work on myself to not let it happen again. Why should one walk away so easily from something so good? After my last relationship ended towards the beginning of this year, my prior ex was left swearing off relationships while I felt strong and determined to do it even better next time. A month later I found this one.
GrayClouds Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 (edited) To answer your question, after a significant relationship a few years back I did take a full 4-5 months of being single. Honestly though, it was a dark period and not looking to revisit that. I have perspective, mid-30's, have had many relationships some of which have lasted years. I honestly see my cause of this one's demise and am willing/have done some of the work on myself to not let it happen again. Why should one walk away so easily from something so good? After my last relationship ended towards the beginning of this year, my prior ex was left swearing off relationships while I felt strong and determined to do it even better next time. A month later I found this one. Sadly your not walking away, she is. You do not have control over that. You can not will her, manipulate her, love her into the relationship. Do you not seeing you are to using the same behavior towards her trying to get her back that you feel hurt the relationship in the end: I was always impatient digging into things, making her questions herself and her issues and past relationships to make sure she can 'love right' instead of just loving her over time and letting our actions dictate things You here asking "what can I do to get her back?. Just as in the relationship you was asking what can I do to get you to commit? You can not do anything in either case all you can do is be yourself, work hard on being your best possible self, and let those who do love you love you. Don't you deserve someone who you do not have to convince to give you their love? How long did the "last" relationship last prior to this one? Why was "being single. Honestly though, it was a dark period "? Edited July 20, 2010 by GrayClouds
Author solo123 Posted July 20, 2010 Author Posted July 20, 2010 Last relationship prior to this one was 9 months long. Really loved that woman but she had character flaws that slowly surfaced. This one was a much better person to build a life with. I get it - you can't manipulate or love someone into coming back. Hell half the time I'd be writing the same thing you are to others - but it's always harder to apply in your own situations. Here's the thing, it's not like she didn't just want to leave and just did - I think I did mistakingly push her away with too much pressure. I saw it in her face, her actions and when we talked about the future - I saw that it was indeed real and unfortunately she got overwhelmed. I know it's only been 4 mths but seriously, we were intense in good ways and 4 mths in mid 30's is different than 4 mths in your 20's. Have had much longer relationships that weren't as strong. People are different - I used to have some of the same habits she does and maybe to some effect still do - problems with truly trusting and committing. I used to need to see that someone would fight for me when the going got tough. So much conflicting information out there and you never know for sure what's in the other person's head. They say 'change her mood not her mind' but I really need to find a way to see her in person to start doing that and for me to look into her eyes to see if it's truly lost or not. She couldn't even breakup with me in person for fear of not being able to go through with it. I do appreciate all your advice - like I said, this is tough and I wake up b/w 5-6am every morning tossing and turning just wanting to either fix this or get the resolution to know what the hell happened?
carhill Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Try being single for a year and go out and explore the world (this means outside your comfort zone) alone. It'll do you a lot of good IMO. Maybe she'll find that man attractive; maybe not. For whatever reasons, the current man is not attractive to her. Not wrong or bad, for either of you. Accepting healthy incompatibility, whether or not it is static, helps one move on and grow. Reading your post, and reflecting, this is the lesson my marriage taught me.
Author solo123 Posted July 20, 2010 Author Posted July 20, 2010 I get the whole you have to be ok being by yourself before you're with another philosophy, I think many people have to adopt it. And not those who are single by default but rather their choice. I don't need months or years at this point to see my errors - i've done the work proactively and I truly want a great relationship like I had with her, and preferably still with her. She met a man that was strong, confident, charming and that she could really have something with. Time went on, and I started making her the focus of my life more and more, got into some silly arguments (i was digging to uncover problems that didn't exist, she couldn't communicate effectively, cycled on a few times), started playing the 'analyzer' card instead of just loving her through the ups and downs of a relationship, and goodwill eroded. If she has the faith, a few good weeks/months can bring it back, I truly believe it. Having her invest with that faith is something else.
carhill Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 At some point, nearly all of us question our path. At this juncture, it appears you have no questions. Perhaps it will evolve. Perhaps a life-altering event will trigger it. Unknown. A useful tool is to reflect upon past relationships, their ultimate ending and one's path through each of them, looking for commonalities which reflect on one's personal perspective, as opposed to the relationship partner and/or the relationship itself. The common denominator. Is who you are attracted to and who you want for compatibility the same person? Why? The answer isn't as easy as you think. Her 'faith' and attraction will return on their own, or not. If you wish to continue to pursue, that is your path. I hope it works out for you
GrayClouds Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 You did not answer: Why was "being single. Honestly though, it was a dark period "? I know it's only been 4 mths but seriously, we were intense in good ways and 4 mths in mid 30's is different than 4 mths in your 20's. Have had much longer relationships that weren't as strong. EVERYONE is intense in good ways for the first months. You keep refering to your age like it is a magic number, fact is mid 20's, mid 30's, mid 40's, mid 90's does not mean a thing. We all learn lesson when we are ready, at no point doe sit stop, and for some they never do. Being open to knowing that make it possible. So much conflicting information out there and you never know for sure what's in the other person's head. If it is a good healthier relationship, you can just ask, and then be assured...you do not have to try new languages, you do not have to change her mood, you do not have to read tea leaves. Much of the time "ineffective communication" is one person not wanting to say what the other wants to hear and that person not wanting to believe it. If someone can not express what they want, often it is not what they want. . I used to need to see that someone would fight for me when the going got tough. She has shown you she is not this person! She walked not fought. She not the one. I do appreciate all your advice - like I said, this is tough and I wake up b/w 5-6am every morning tossing and turning just wanting to either fix this or get the resolution to know what the hell happened? It about fixing you. Get resolution by going NC and follow carhill advice & read: So you want a second chance?
Author solo123 Posted July 20, 2010 Author Posted July 20, 2010 Being single was a dark period years ago after a particular break-up because we were engaged and living together for 2 years, had a life together and then you go from that to being alone then, well, it's quite a paradigm shift. And we were close throughout the two years, extremely affectionate, etc. Did I learn about myself/issues that had to fixed after that relationship - absolutely. It still didn't make those 6 months easy, you're constantly brooding/feeling a bit lost. Yes, yes, I focused on my friends, career, health all that good stuff but that pain never fully went away and I didn't have that desire to meet someone else and move on really. All this despite the fact that I did the breaking up. Go figure! Question answered? Whole different frame of mind. This woman has a hard time opening up. I pushed her to sooner than she was able. I really do want this to work/rebuild it. If it doesn't, I have better skills in the future to build with someone else.
Jilly Bean Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 I used to want to mold her to be my perfect woman. Seriously? And you still wonder why she broke up with you? Your whole post is all about her issues, her pathology, her problems and how entirely perfect you are. But in that one line, you revealed more about the real relationship dynamic than anything else. Someone looking to change someone to be "perfect" tends to have control issues, unrealistic expectations, an anal approach to life, not to mention a real inability to look inwards...
Author solo123 Posted July 20, 2010 Author Posted July 20, 2010 Jilly Bean - I get it, but trust me, 95% of our relationship was enjoyment but when things would pop up I would go on a rant and not necessarily in a domineering you need to be this way vibe, but rather hey let's look at things from a different perspective vibe. Half of this stuff wouldn't even be happening to us and we'd be arguing about hypotheticals which I could write off/even enjoy as philosophizing whereas she I think saw as pressure to conform to someone else's thoughts. I over-analyze and think abstractly at times.
Jilly Bean Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 Jilly Bean - I get it, but trust me, 95% of our relationship was enjoyment but when things would pop up I would go on a rant and not necessarily in a domineering you need to be this way vibe, but rather hey let's look at things from a different perspective vibe. Half of this stuff wouldn't even be happening to us and we'd be arguing about hypotheticals which I could write off/even enjoy as philosophizing whereas she I think saw as pressure to conform to someone else's thoughts. I over-analyze and think abstractly at times. I don't doubt you guys had fun, Solo. But women are very perceptive, and I suspect you aren't aware of how your judgements were coming on. And when you're initially dating someone, that 5% can be enough to turn someone off. But, the fact that you were arguing about hypotheticals often enough, would exhaust me. People like to be with someone who mirrors their ethics and core values, for the most part. People like it to be easy, not a challenge and debate.
GrayClouds Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 ...tends to have control issues, unrealistic expectations, not to mention a real inability to look inwards... Solo I know it sucks, you what to hold on, it really painful to let go, it is time. Listen to the advice your getting, this break-up is here to tell you something important, it showing you there is things you need to look at, issue you need to work on so you can someday have the realtionship you want. It time to stop using her to distract you from yourself. Make this break-up mean something, make it matter.
GrayClouds Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 It still didn't make those 6 months easy, you're constantly brooding/feeling a bit lost. Yes, yes, I focused on my friends, career, health all that good stuff but that pain never fully went away. The people who put the effort into truly healing, have the courage to do the hard work and really work on themselves stops brooding/feeling lost, they find the pain does fully goes away. It like why you are holding on so hard to this realtionship, as much as she was a heck of a gal, it is more about fear then love. You been holding off the hard work for a too long, it is time to make up for lost time. You deserve it. You deserve better.
Author solo123 Posted July 21, 2010 Author Posted July 21, 2010 GrayClouds - The brooding situation we spoke off from years back, I did get past it, found happiness again and didn't 'need' a relationship - I was happy focusing on myself and dating in the meanwhile. When I met someone worth investing in, I did. Since then and now, I've continued learning a lot about myself and on the reading list are books such as: "How to stop worrying" (too much analysis) "Addiction to love" (overcoming love addiction) "Overcoming Obsessive Thoughts" (no need to ruminate on the past) "How to Influence People" (in non-negative ways) "Five Languages of Love" (understanding that someone may not show the love you want to see but it doesn't mean they don't love you) I'm the strongest I've ever been in the gym, career on track, going on an international trip next month with friends - so definitely AM working on myself to be a better me. I will not make the same mistakes again, whether with her or someone else. I WILL be fine if I never see her again, I've come back from a lot worse in the past (not just relationships). Had a real rough life and have made out pretty well regardless. All that being said, call me a hopeless romantic or just laser tuned to who people are/intuition/life experience but this woman is really someone I want to continue on the path with - we never took it as far as we could have or should have. There was no heated fight at the end or anything ending it and it still doesn't sit right. If I looked in her eyes and saw a lack of desire, or she said 'sorry you have a big bellybutton' or something; i'd get it and move on. Saying 'I don't want to disappoint you in a year if I can't give you what you're looking for' is not believing in herself, and I may be too blame.
GrayClouds Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 (edited) Saying 'I don't want to disappoint you in a year if I can't give you what you're looking for' is not believing in herself, Or she is trying to say in the nicest way possible, "PISS OFF, I am tired of you telling me how to think, feel, and what to believe and if you could listen to me just once, please do it now" EGO can only love itself. I'm the strongest I've ever been in the gym, career on track, going on an international trip next month with friends - so definitely AM working on myself to be a better me. Are you working on the right things? . Edited July 21, 2010 by GrayClouds
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