LoveLace Posted July 19, 2010 Posted July 19, 2010 I got into this debate with someone about a friend of ours going out with a guy, and for a few years now, who's in his 30's and still doesn't quite have it together. She has a good job and education, but he's a job hopper because he's just had a lot of hard times in his life and because of a divorce a few years, it made things financially harder for him...anyway she partially supports him but when he does have the means to spend money on her or whatever, he goes all out. Well, he hasn't had a car for awhile now. So now he's living with her and working while he saves up for a car. I've seen them together and I've always thought I want a boyfriend who treats me as kindly as he does her...he's always looking out for her and he's a huge gentleman. He knows that he isn't as successful as the girls' husbands around and he regrets decisions he's made in his past. In fact I think he just knows that Sara (the GF) is the best thing he's ever had. She got ridiculed by her family, and several friends for letting him move in; I had a talk with one of those friends and I stuck up for him. But they keep calling him a "loser" and an "idiot" and frankly it hacks me off. I've never seen two people so in love. It's not that she doesn't deserve a guy with the finances to give her anything she wants; but she loves him for who he is, not what he has. She comes from a pretty well off family, so of course you can imagine how they must judge him, even though he's perfectly nice guy. She called me crying and very upset last night...he left the house and she doesn't even know where he went, she just knows he left with his head hung low. I've tried calling him (because she asked me to) to talk him into going back home but he won't answer. The whole thing just breaks my heart to the point where i keep thinking about it...so I thought I'd ask...would you leave someone you love very much all because they struggle with certain things? They are always, always happy until it comes to this issue making them both sad. I've probably dumped several nice guys just because they didn't have a great job or potential to take me out anytime I wanted. Now I feel pretty selfish for it.
alphamale Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 love is important when you're young and money is important when you're older
Author LoveLace Posted July 20, 2010 Author Posted July 20, 2010 love is important when you're young and money is important when you're older True..but its not as though they can't pay bills or feed themselves, or even do fun things together...they just can't do alot of extra things or buy a big house. And they are just happy that way. She gets criticized though because most people our age do extra big things all the time and have extra big houses because most of the men are pretty successful by now. Just because he hasn't climed the ladder at some corporate job, she's always told she can "do better"...well of course she can, but this is who makes her happy so isn't that what matters? What makes her UNhappy is what other people think about it..
sugarmomma Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 It all depends on the person. I wold rather have love but realistically we all need money to survive. I wouldn't leave someone i loved because they lost their job. as long as he was self supporting when we met I would stick it out. Also if he wasn't the kind to take advantage of my generosity. If he loves me he wouldn't and he'd work really hard at gaining employment.
MrSnufkin Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Depends if you want to be genuinely happy or just spend your life pretending you are. When you're old and alone your money isn't going to tuck you in at night and make sure you're warm and safe etc.
Woggle Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Money because keeping it depends on how smart you are. For a man love depends on a woman's unstable and ever changing emotions.
2sure Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Money makes some aspects of life easier, more comfortable, and pleasant. Nothing wrong with wanting those things to be a part of your life. There is no need to choose between the two if both are offered. If one partner has money and doesnt mind sharing with the other - who cares which one it is that has it. If people are concerned your friend is being taken advantage of - hey, thats her lesson to learn and besides - there are a million ways to be taken advantage of, money is just one of them.
sally4sara Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 I'll happily eat cat food with my husband when we are old if it means we get to stay together. I doubt it will come to that though; we're both pretty darn resourceful.
Star Gazer Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 a guy who's in his 30's and still doesn't quite have it together. he's a job hopper she partially supports him he hasn't had a car for awhile now. So now he's living with her he regrets decisions he's made in his past. he just knows that Sara (the GF) is the best thing he's ever had. [friends/family] keep calling him a "loser" and an "idiot" Regardless of class level, he doesn't sound like he's stable in any capacity, and is a borderline mooch.
jamesum Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 (edited) Society and most women themselves have not accepted the idea of women being the main breadwinners. For thousands of years men have been the ones throwing resources at women in exchange for sex not the other way around. And such mentality is not going to change in only a few decades. Until today most women still enjoy being 'bought'. Edited July 20, 2010 by jamesum
2sure Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 ]. Until today most women still enjoy being 'bought'. Funny, men with money never say that...its always those without success that do. Many men do not mind trading being the main breadwinner for someone who works but also takes care of the majority of child rearing and/or household tasks. Of the couples I know and my own experience with men who earn less than their female partners..it is the man that ends up not feeling satisfied if he is not the main breadwinner.
threebyfate Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 It's not that she doesn't deserve a guy with the finances to give her anything she wants;This comment bothers me. If a woman wants more things, she can always earn them herself. Having said that, if your friend and her b/f ever want to have children but don't have the luxury of enough savings to tide them over for the major financial hit, then he'd better pull up his socks now. If he doesn't, she'll have to go back to work right after having the baby and he'll be the stay at home husband. Or both will be working right away if their salaries amount to enough to pay for newborn childcare, which can be very expensive.
Woggle Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Funny, men with money never say that...its always those without success that do. Many men do not mind trading being the main breadwinner for someone who works but also takes care of the majority of child rearing and/or household tasks. Of the couples I know and my own experience with men who earn less than their female partners..it is the man that ends up not feeling satisfied if he is not the main breadwinner. I have heard quite a few successful men who are single say they are afraid to date because they don't want a gold digger. In most cases I know where the woman makes more she starts to lose respect for him as a man and loses the attraction.
carhill Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 As a society, I think we're pretty far down the road to acknowledging that women have value beyond their ability to birth babies and remain barefoot in the kitchen, and opportunities and support for such paths are in place. What remains are for similar perceptions and support structures to be enacted for men, expanding the value of their contributions beyond the workplace and assigning value (just like healthy men have always valued women as mothers and supportive non-employed wives) to other choices made and paths taken by men. I experimented with this non-traditional path in my marriage and feel it has merit, though I chose the wrong partner for such a dynamic. She didn't see adequate value in the non-economic contributions to remain attracted or loving. So, next. I still think the evolution has merit and will happen eventually, perhaps not during my lifetime. Money is nice, but loving and supportive humans have been the cornerstone of survival during the recent difficult times, IME. YMMV
jamesum Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 (edited) Funny, men with money never say that...its always those without success that do. And how is that relevant? Whether Im a successful person or not, it doesnt negate the fact that I said about how today men are still buying women through different ways. Many men do not mind trading being the main breadwinner for someone who works but also takes care of the majority of child rearing and/or household tasks. I dont mind either but I dont really understand your point. Of the couples I know and my own experience with men who earn less than their female partners..it is the man that ends up not feeling satisfied if he is not the main breadwinner.Did you read the story in the first post? Edited July 20, 2010 by jamesum
Author LoveLace Posted July 20, 2010 Author Posted July 20, 2010 Mixed opinions, it seems. The recent economic status really got him. He was in construction, so once he got laid off from there, he has struggled ever since. His car went caput so he had no choice but to sell it for whatever he could get for it. Now he's doing odd jobs like painting here and there, but at least he's doing something. He doesn't exactly enjoy not working. As for wanting more for herself, yes, she's independent and if she wants to do something for herself, she does. I've never heard her complain that he can't buy this or that for her. But when he does have the capability, he takes her out and buys her things for every seldom time that he can. He buys her flowers, he cleans house, does dishes, he even gives her back massages on a daily basis...if something breaks he has it fixed in a heartbeat. Just saying, he's nowhere near lazy. And he treats her like a princess. All of those things make her very happy and it doesn't bother her that she's a little more stable than him. It bothers other people...she wishes everyone would just believe that she is happy and stop telling her to leave him for a guy with more money. These 2 can't live without each other, period. And it's because of how much they love each other, not because of what they have together...to me they represent genuine love, always have. I never once thought of him as a loser...just a sweet guy with bad luck. As for kids, it appears they are not able to have them physically...so I guess that won't ever be a financial concern.
Author LoveLace Posted July 22, 2010 Author Posted July 22, 2010 He does have a regular job now, I found out, doing painting and working on houses and such, it just doesn't pay as much as he made in construction. But it's enough to help support them. She is satisfied with that. It's not as though she makes a huge amount more than he; it's just that her job is more secure than what he can find right now. So put together, they still struggle even if they are both working. But when he does have the weight to pull, he pulls as much as he can. Problem is, he has always been in construction and labor kind of work, the kind that is very difficult to find and keep in our country right now. So as far as she's concerned, they are lucky that he has something as opposed to nothing...even if it only brings in so much cash. She does have a brother who really likes him and he's the only one in her family who sticks up for him. He reminds them how well he treats her and that he does what he can, when he can, and he's not a lazy mooch. Once, her brother offered to take them out to dinner, but he told Sara to go without him, because he didn't want her brother paying for his dinner as it would make him feel like a mooch. It just seems like everyone else doesn't see the side of him that Sara and her brother see...they are too focused on the fact that he's hasn't had steady work in more than a year. When he does have the means he showers her with attention, and to me that's what matters...he'll do that before taking the cash and blowing it on something for himself.
Nikki Sahagin Posted July 23, 2010 Posted July 23, 2010 My heart says love, my head says money. Life isn't anything without love; its boring, hollow and meaningless. But love without money means you can't do things or have experiences. I've always said i'd live with the love of my life in a binbag if he was the man I loved, and I stand by the sentiment, but what if you could never go places together, or see the world or live in an apartment or own a pet dog? I really hate how much we need money for so much. I still think i'd go for love. I wouldn't marry for money anyway, that I know.
Joe10 Posted July 27, 2010 Posted July 27, 2010 Read behind the lines people, he's got to be nice with the American Princess, or else... I say he should dump her for good, and stay away from her kind, my 2 cents. As for money, what is going to happen to your material possessions? Wanna get buried with it? Google the word 'skeleton', this is how you (and me) are going to look like, very soon. I love to see how humans delude themselves, rationalize their primitivism. Survival? Feeding kids? Please... How do you believe people have lived in the past thousands of years, without Prada handbags, Manolo shoes, Mercedes cars, beachfront property or degrees in communication, huh? Truth is, dudes want beautiful wives to show off, and dudettes beautiful things to show off. I could tell you plenty, but you've got the idea. End of rant.
D-Lish Posted July 27, 2010 Posted July 27, 2010 Love matters more. I make my own money- work hard for it- and I don't need a man to swoop in and take care of me financially- I already have that covered. Even if I didn't have that covered, and when I was in a spot where I actually didn't have that covered, I didn't consider prostituting myself out to a wealthy man in order to cover my troubles. I'd rather be single for the rest of my life than accept less than what I deserve. I'd never consider dating someone just because they have extra bucks.
Author LoveLace Posted July 27, 2010 Author Posted July 27, 2010 Why dump her Joe? She is just as good to him as he is to her. If he ever finds out things people say, it's rare that he lets it get to him...a little bit lately, yes, but for the most part he knows that he does what he can, that she's happy and that's all that matters to him..he actively seeks out better opportunities even though he works. But these days those opportunities are almost impossible to come by.
Joe10 Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 He actively seeks out better opportunities even though he works. But these days those opportunities are almost impossible to come by. Not every American man wants to be engaged in - economic - warfare to defend the honor of the American Princess. And many resent being pushed by their companion, their companion's friends, society at large. This couple seems to function on alpha/beta mode. Nice guys don't have the drive to fight for anything, especially money. More dominant men don't exactly stay away from other dominant women, It's more like women as usual do the selection and seek out a nice guy.
Joe10 Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 Why dump her Joe? Because he'll never amount to anything in the eyes of her entourage. And it's hurting his feelings a lot, enough for him to consider leaving her.
xpaperxcutx Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 Money first, love can take second place. Really, that's the most idealistic way of thinking for the 21st century. You can't rely on love to pay the rent let alone bring food to the table. Your friend has a good heart, but her parents are probably right that the guy is mooching off of her. In fact he should have taken the criticisms like a man rather than make a prissy fit and walking away.
Joe10 Posted July 28, 2010 Posted July 28, 2010 (edited) You can't rely on love to pay the rent let alone bring food to the table. Do you have sex with your car, home, Mastercard? Do you talk to it? Someone's got a lot of imagination. The woman is sharing her success, with her sweetheart. So what? Men do that all the time. There are no 'real' or 'fake' men, just men. Edited July 28, 2010 by Joe10
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