Untouchable_Fire Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 Thanx, Martini-mae, for asking these things. First, I want to apologize to all who have followed this thread for my not being back sooner. I find it very difficult to get back to the forum on a consistent and regular basis due to time constraints and lack of opportunity. Sorry for that !! The fact is that, with that one exception, everything is, and always has been, perfectly fine in our marriage. I have never doubted my wife's love for me and she has shown it consistently throughout our lives together. We have never had a disagreement on any of the core issues of life (money, kids, religion, politics, ....). The longest argument we have ever had probably lasted a good hour---we both find it very easy to admit to being wrong and to apologize for our misunderstandings. I believe that these facts are why I was able to go for such a very long time without concern for her one affair (which, I wish to reiterate, had ended more than three years before she told me about it and, thus, was somewhat blunted by time). I have much more I want to say, but, need time to translate it into words on the printed page. As to your final question: That's one of the things for which I am seeking an answer. I think, as has been pointed out by (?) I simply need closure. Again, I have more thoughts that need to be organized for (a) later post(s). Thanx, again, Martini-mae, for posting. I'm with Jilly Bean on this one. You seem like a roll over and take it kinda guy. My question is why are you having issues with this now? Why not 30 years ago? What has changed recently? I just can't imagine your wife having much respect for you. You just seem like too much of a people pleaser.
2sunny Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 Oh, wow, Sunny. Gosh, I never even thought of that, but now that you mention it - damn. This is turning into a lifetime movie. unfortunately, been there - done that... probably all of what he's thinking... i've thought, and experienced. my marriage ended after 20 years. i wasn't willing to wonder where the truth may or may not be hiding. i got tired of always bowing down to making him happy - only to find evidence that he betrayed me many times while he was pretending to be all happy with me. the betrayal showed in many areas little things - big things. but i had a blind eye to so much at that time. i couldn't see the truth... didn't even know what my own truth may or may not have looked like. then it hit me - much as this OP has had it hit him. i woke up. pretending is so very hurtful. so is with holding the truth to only benefit the one doing the betraying. to never wonder anymore has restored my own peace of mind - and it's so worth it. but that is just me.
2sunny Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 Oh, wow, Sunny. Gosh, I never even thought of that, but now that you mention it - damn. This is turning into a lifetime movie. unfortunately, been there - done that... probably all of what he thinking... i've thought, and experienced.
JRoy Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 The Why. "Why am I still haunted by my wife's ancient affair?" In my opinion its because of the lies and half truths. Lie on top of lie. It is negative reinforcement, leaves a gap, a hole, a void. The marriage is incomplete. No matter the 'happiness' that ensues in the intervening years, the lies and absence of the whole truth will eat away at the foundation of marriage. I believe this accounts for that 'haunted' feeling. That feeling nagging at the back of your mind, just out of reach that is trying to tell you that something is just not right. In my opinion this is control. This is how a person can control a situation. This is abuse. And it takes at least two to participate. You can draw a line and say "no more". Be prepared to back it up. Have a plan. State your concerns. Be honest. Be loving. DEMAND CONCEALING. Individual (each of you) and couples concealing. In my opinion you have described a marriage that is worth saving. Your marriage has survived based on lies. Can it survive based on truth? The whole truth? You love your wife, its obvious. Do this for HER.
Author nvntr007 Posted July 30, 2010 Author Posted July 30, 2010 I'm with Jilly Bean on this one. You seem like a roll over and take it kinda guy. My question is why are you having issues with this now? Why not 30 years ago? What has changed recently? I just can't imagine your wife having much respect for you. You just seem like too much of a people pleaser. Sorry, UF, that you have drawn these conclusions from what I have posted. Unfortunately, such misunderstandings are common in written communications regarding complex issues. That is why I said that I needed time to formulate my thoughts---I want to make them as crystal clear as possible. Your post reminded me immediately of the old parable about the blind men and the elephant. I Googled it and include a westernized version here: The Blind Men and the Elephant It was six men of Indostan, to learning much inclined, who went to see the elephant (Though all of them were blind), that each by observation, might satisfy his mind. The first approached the elephant, and, happening to fall, against his broad and sturdy side, at once began to bawl: "God bless me! but the elephant, is nothing but a wall!" The second feeling of the tusk, cried: "Ho! what have we here, so very round and smooth and sharp? To me tis mighty clear, this wonder of an elephant, is very like a spear!" The third approached the animal, and, happening to take, the squirming trunk within his hands, "I see," quoth he, the elephant is very like a snake!" The fourth reached out his eager hand, and felt about the knee: "What most this wondrous beast is like, is mighty plain," quoth he; "Tis clear enough the elephant is very like a tree." The fifth, who chanced to touch the ear, Said; "E'en the blindest man can tell what this resembles most; Deny the fact who can, This marvel of an elephant, is very like a fan!" The sixth no sooner had begun, about the beast to grope, than, seizing on the swinging tail, that fell within his scope, "I see," quothe he, "the elephant is very like a rope!" And so these men of Indostan, disputed loud and long, each in his own opinion, exceeding stiff and strong, Though each was partly in the right, and all were in the wrong! So, oft in theologic wars, the disputants, I ween, tread on in utter ignorance, of what each other mean, and prate about the elephant, not one of them has seen! John Godfrey Saxe (1816 - 1887) That pretty well sums it up. Later, alligator!
GordonDarkfoot Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 Sorry, UF, that you have drawn these conclusions from what I have posted. Unfortunately, such misunderstandings are common in written communications regarding complex issues. That is why I said that I needed time to formulate my thoughts---I want to make them as crystal clear as possible. Your post reminded me immediately of the old parable about the blind men and the elephant. I Googled it and include a westernized version here: The Blind Men and the Elephant It was six men of Indostan, to learning much inclined, who went to see the elephant (Though all of them were blind), that each by observation, might satisfy his mind. The first approached the elephant, and, happening to fall, against his broad and sturdy side, at once began to bawl: "God bless me! but the elephant, is nothing but a wall!" The second feeling of the tusk, cried: "Ho! what have we here, so very round and smooth and sharp? To me tis mighty clear, this wonder of an elephant, is very like a spear!" The third approached the animal, and, happening to take, the squirming trunk within his hands, "I see," quoth he, the elephant is very like a snake!" The fourth reached out his eager hand, and felt about the knee: "What most this wondrous beast is like, is mighty plain," quoth he; "Tis clear enough the elephant is very like a tree." The fifth, who chanced to touch the ear, Said; "E'en the blindest man can tell what this resembles most; Deny the fact who can, This marvel of an elephant, is very like a fan!" The sixth no sooner had begun, about the beast to grope, than, seizing on the swinging tail, that fell within his scope, "I see," quothe he, "the elephant is very like a rope!" And so these men of Indostan, disputed loud and long, each in his own opinion, exceeding stiff and strong, Though each was partly in the right, and all were in the wrong! So, oft in theologic wars, the disputants, I ween, tread on in utter ignorance, of what each other mean, and prate about the elephant, not one of them has seen! John Godfrey Saxe (1816 - 1887) That pretty well sums it up. Later, alligator! Yeah that's a good parable, but most versions leave out the part about the seventh blind man... you know... ...the one who couldn't see where he'd been, or where he was going, and therefore stepped in a huge pile of elephant poo?
Mr. Lucky Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 (edited) I think, as has been pointed out by (?) I simply need closure. Again, I have more thoughts that need to be organized for (a) later post(s). I think you're smart to ignore other's projected perceptions of what you and your life have been like for the last 30 years. You were the one that was there. What would concern me in your situation is that, rather than "closure" or any other healing process, full disclosure might inflict so much pain and damage to your marriage that it might not recover. Really ask yourself if, at this point in your life, you want the complete and sordid details of "he did this" and "I did that". While I agree that the BS has everyright to know, I just wonder if it's an option that you want to fully exercise at this point? We're all fundamentally flawed human beings. Your wife made a terrible mistake in conduct, judgement and integrity three decades ago. From your posts, it sounds like she's given you her best non-verbal apology over the intervening 30 years. You also seem to have made over the course of time the same commitment to forgiving her as she seems to have made to forgiving herself and settling up with you. To me, she's earned the hard way more consideration than some other posters seem to think she deserves. I'd deal with your turmoil and inner conflict through IC. And then I'd spend the rest of my days living what sounds to be an enviable and happy life... Mr. Lucky Edited July 30, 2010 by Mr. Lucky
martini-mae Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 Mr Lucky - Thank You Your post was extremely profound & actually touched me. Not often are words put in a kind way here. This is a very good post. I'd deal with your turmoil and inner conflict through IC. And then I'd spend the rest of my days living what sounds to be an enviable and happy life... We're all fundamentally flawed human beings. Your wife made a terrible mistake in conduct, judgement and integrity I hope that nvntr007 takes your post to heart.
Author nvntr007 Posted July 31, 2010 Author Posted July 31, 2010 Mr. Lucky, you've made my day. Thank you for your wisdom. (And, Martini-mae, I really appreciate your response to Mr. Lucky's astute advice. You two rule!!!)
Author nvntr007 Posted July 31, 2010 Author Posted July 31, 2010 Yeah that's a good parable, but most versions leave out the part about the seventh blind man... you know... ...the one who couldn't see where he'd been, or where he was going, and therefore stepped in a huge pile of elephant poo? LOL! That's pretty funny GD. How often have we been that "seventh" person?? Still, the best response to stepping in "it" is to scrape it off and keep truckin'.
Jilly Bean Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 How often have we been that "seventh" person?? Still, the best response to stepping in "it" is to scrape it off and keep truckin'. But, if you don't clean your shoes first, then you'll smell crap every day of your life...
liveit Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 The initial disclosure was so traumatic for you that you buried it for 30 years. Wow, that is really something extraordinary! Now it comes back and you feel it all over again, as if it happened yesterday. You are haunted by it because the fight/flight portion of your brain has no concept of the passage of time. She will need to tell you the whole truth and you will need to accept it completely. If she does not disclose everything you want her to, there will never be complete trust between you. You were betrayed, plain and simple. Accept that fact. Don't even try to bury it anymore. You have the right to be angry about it and you need to deal with the pain of it. Remember, that there is no such thing as perfect love. If you choose to stay with her remember that your 'forgiveness' is a gift that YOU are giving to her because YOU'VE decided that the marriage is still worth it for YOU. You have something valid to offer this woman who is your wife. If she doesn't show you the respect that you deserve then consider finding someone else who will. You are in the judges seat. You get to decide what you want. Good luck!
LSNoob Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Man why can't we have more of good endings. Maybe your wife went along with the affair just to keep her job, who knows. Please OP try and make this one a good ending. Wish you and your wife the best of luck.
Darth Vader Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 Man why can't we have more of good endings. Maybe your wife went along with the affair just to keep her job, who knows. Please OP try and make this one a good ending. Wish you and your wife the best of luck. To the poster, if you want to get your self dignity and self respect, then drop your wife! Divorce her, yes, after 30 years! You have absolutely no obligation to stay with her even after this long! She cheated, she leaves. Since she never wants to be honest about what happened and all, well, pack her bags, it's time to take the smelly trash out! It's loong overdo!
Bitterman24/7 Posted August 11, 2010 Posted August 11, 2010 To the poster, if you want to get your self dignity and self respect, then drop your wife! Divorce her, yes, after 30 years! You have absolutely no obligation to stay with her even after this long! She cheated, she leaves. Since she never wants to be honest about what happened and all, well, pack her bags, it's time to take the smelly trash out! It's loong overdo! Agreed. She lied and cheated on this man for many years, then tried to damage control the affair. You should drop her. Take the trash can to the front.
Case O'Bier Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 I won't offer advice, but I will say that affairs suck. My xW and I had many problems, but the affairs she had really stuck with me.. more than I ever wanted to admit. I used to think that for all the things that my xW used to do to me, I always believed she was faithful, but I was wrong more than once. Maybe more so than the actual betrayal, the trust that I placed in my xW really exposed weakness in me. I am not making excuses for my behavior, but her affairs exposed a character flaw within me that was fueled by bitterness that eventually led to an EA, that eventually became physical, and then ultimately, divorce. My xW realizes that those affairs were a catalyst for pain that has ultimately destroyed two families, deeply hurt three children, and affected other immediate family members. Again, this doesn't excuse anyone's behavior... it just an example of how destructive an affair can be. Now, I'm marrying my AP and I love her and her kids very much. She also loves my child. My xW is married and seemingly happy. But no matter how happy you are or think you are, the emotional scars of affairs doesn't go away... whether you're having the affair or our spouse had the affair.
2sunny Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 But no matter how happy you are or think you are, the emotional scars of affairs doesn't go away... whether you're having the affair or our spouse had the affair. this is the crux of the problem - the delusion that is created - and the delusion of wondering if you actually were happy, are happy, or can even be happy. especially when it's dependent upon another person. for me, to have to even wonder - wasn't worth the emotional pain of suffering through the UNKNOWN any longer. i was willing to see what happy looked like - for me - all by myself. and you know what? it's pretty damn good to have MY peace of mind back after 23 years of wondering and wondering where the truth might actually lie. ahhhhh, peace of mind is a beautiful thing!
Chubbi Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 I'm not going to offer advice either, but I'm going to point out something the OP has done time and time again. He comes on here stating a problem, but then disregards everyone who tells him what his problem is and hides behind the idea that they don't know his situation. The other posters who tell him to 'move on' or 'let it go' or deny there is a problem to begin with, he applauds them. Then why are you on here in the first place! OP, you are the one who said you have a problem! So now, if you take those people advice and just 'move on' and not say anything, will you be back 30 more years later asking us the same question!! The reason why you are here is because you avoided this marriage conflict before, 30 years ago. Will you avoid it again? How do you deal with conflict, OP? Are you passive aggressive? Are you a conflict avoider?
confusedinkansas Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 Not offering advice either.....Just an observation the emotional scars of affairs doesn't go away This is a very true quote. But - the difference is.....How do you choose to deal with it? Emotional scars for anything in this world, rarely heal. Those that choose not to let it rule their lives & become bitter about things, well, those are the 'survivers' ( I'm speaking Not Just of Infidelity) The OP choose 20 some odd years ago to let his wife's infidelity 'slide' - Now it is haunting him. Personally, I think something else triggered the haunting. Perhaps SHE has done something that made him go back to that day. Perhaps HE himself has done something. (happens all the time) I'm curious why the OP has disappeared? Maybe he got his answer. Guess we may never know.
OliveOyl Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 I agree with Mr. Lucky. I think at this point it would do more damage than healing to the marriage than to bring it all up now. I think this is something the OP needs to deal with on his own, in IC. Certainly there has to be a statute of limitations and 30 years would seem beyond that point. To the posters saying he should just dump his wife for something that happened 30 years ago, that seems pretty ridiculous to me given that they have had a very happy relationship and marriage for many, many years. I am in my late 40s and I can barely remember 19... it really was a lifetime ago. I see absolutely no point in dragging up such ancient history now unless you have an ulterior motive in mind.
Bitterman24/7 Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 I agree with Mr. Lucky. I think at this point it would do more damage than healing to the marriage than to bring it all up now. I think this is something the OP needs to deal with on his own, in IC. Certainly there has to be a statute of limitations and 30 years would seem beyond that point. To the posters saying he should just dump his wife for something that happened 30 years ago, that seems pretty ridiculous to me given that they have had a very happy relationship and marriage for many, many years. I am in my late 40s and I can barely remember 19... it really was a lifetime ago. I see absolutely no point in dragging up such ancient history now unless you have an ulterior motive in mind. Do more damage? The guy is still trying to deal with the pain that his W disintegrated him with. I don't care if i'm 60 years old. If I feel that I can't trust my wife after over 35 years of marriage, and she didn't tell me all the details, then i'll leave, no matter how long ago it was. People always use time as an excuse to get over an affair, when nobody never really gets over it. This is exactly why I divorced my ex because I will not grow old in my rocking chair with a wife who cheated on me . So much for trust.
martini-mae Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 I agree that the BS has everyright to know, I just wonder if it's an option that you want to fully exercise at this point? I too am in agreement with Mr. Lucky (who to me in the short time I've been on this site - is very insiteful) I'm married as long as the original poster is. I can't even imagine trying to remember details of something that happened that long ago. Heck, if I ask my husband for details about something that happened last week, he doesn't remember them. I don't know how this OP's wife could remember. The way I would see things would be, if he wanted to know, he should've asked back then. He choose not to. He also choose to forgive her & move on with their marriage. It's water under the bridge now, especially if they've had a pretty good marriage up until this thing that triggered his memory. I hope you've worked things out Mr. OP.
Author nvntr007 Posted August 12, 2010 Author Posted August 12, 2010 Not offering advice either.....Just an observation This is a very true quote. But - the difference is.....How do you choose to deal with it? Emotional scars for anything in this world, rarely heal. Those that choose not to let it rule their lives & become bitter about things, well, those are the 'survivers' ( I'm speaking Not Just of Infidelity) The OP choose 20 some odd years ago to let his wife's infidelity 'slide' - Now it is haunting him. Personally, I think something else triggered the haunting. Perhaps SHE has done something that made him go back to that day. Perhaps HE himself has done something. (happens all the time) I'm curious why the OP has disappeared? Maybe he got his answer. Guess we may never know. Hey, confusedinkansas, I haven't gone away, just not able to get to the forum regularly. I checked in last night and was surprised that there were two (?) new posts from yesterday. Coming back just now, I was further surprised to find yours and OliveOyl's new posts. Many thanks to both of you for your thoughts. Egad, there are more! I guess I didn't realize the posts were not in consecutive order with all the new ones tacked on at the end as I had expected. Clearly, I need to bone up on how this works. I definitely will be back here with a collective, in depth, response to all the thoughts you folks (all of you) have been so kind to share with me. However, for the time being, I would like to report that life continues to be an exciting and rich adventure for my wife and me. We are both very happy with our lives, in general, and with each other, in particular. Our sex life is very satisfying and as hot as it ever was when we were first married a century ago. We have both been retired for quite a few years and, with the exception of the days she plays bridge or I'm away from the house doing my thing, we spend every waking (and sleeping) hour together. We both really like that and never wish it otherwise.
InceptorsRule Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 I definitely will be back here with a collective, in depth, response to all the thoughts you folks (all of you) have been so kind to share with me. However, for the time being, I would like to report that life continues to be an exciting and rich adventure for my wife and me. We are both very happy with our lives, in general, and with each other, in particular. Our sex life is very satisfying and as hot as it ever was when we were first married a century ago. We have both been retired for quite a few years and, with the exception of the days she plays bridge or I'm away from the house doing my thing, we spend every waking (and sleeping) hour together. We both really like that and never wish it otherwise. If you knew the truth, your marriage would be even better than you think it is. But I think you know that already.
2sunny Posted August 12, 2010 Posted August 12, 2010 Our sex life is very satisfying and as hot as it ever was when we were first married a century ago. i highly doubt you have been married a century. now i am beginning to question the integrity of the poster. first you were married many years - i want to say more than 30 - now it is 100? what is it really...??? also - in some other threads you responded prior that your wife and you were swingers. i'm beginning to see that things don't add up. first you overlooked an affair - then she became faithful - then you approved of swinging - NOW you want to be filled in on all the details of the affair from 30 years ago? where lies the truth in all this? what really is the deal? and what is your reason for wanting to know the details now - do YOU have an ulterior motive? doesn't make sense to me... please clarify as i am baffled.
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