Losing/Winning By Default

[pureinheart]

Just a question derived from a recent thread that got me to thinking.

 

I left the EA, so did exDM's exW win/loose by default?

 

She, after a few months moved out, and filed a few months after that. Did I win/loose by default?

[feelingfine]

Looks like nobody wins here! Seems to be the way it goes when people make these choices. It just wrecks families...

[Confused4Now]

Just a question derived from a recent thread that got me to thinking.

 

I left the EA, so did exDM's exW win/loose by default?

 

She, after a few months moved out, and filed a few months after that. Did I win/loose by default?

For me the tail tell signs is who filed? If it was the BS then I think you lose. Personally I think it would have to come from the WS. I think you know why too.....

[Confused4Now]

Looks like nobody wins here! Seems to be the way it goes when people make these choices. It just wrecks families...

I think that goes without saying....the fallout of any divorce can be hard on families.

[ladydesigner]

I see it as everybody losing something. I'm not sure any person would be the winner in an A. What is the person actually winning? A cheating spouse/lover? This goes for both the AP and the BS's. Did I win my cheating H because he did not leave me for the OW? I don't think so. When my own A ended (my xAP ended for his long-term girlfriend) I felt that "I lost" kinda feeling. The only thing I lost was my integrity:laugh:

 

I'm not sure anyone comes out the winner in these situations.

[bentnotbroken]

I won my life back. I lost what I believed was my past. I lost any happy memories that I thought I had with him. And I lost the man I thought I married. My kids lost him but gained me. They lost respect for him and gained respect for me. They lost their innocence in blind trust but gained a new way of dealing with people...the assuption they are lying unless proven otherwise. Wait...maybe that isn't so good after all. But why would either their father or his owomen care?

[Myowntwofeet]

Just a question derived from a recent thread that got me to thinking.

 

I left the EA, so did exDM's exW win/loose by default?

 

She, after a few months moved out, and filed a few months after that. Did I win/loose by default?

 

 

You know, clearly I struggle with it and I do want him to make the best decision for him

 

A counselor I was seeing way back when things blew up said this to me

 

" You love him, that is obvious - saying you wouldn't work on a relationship because of who ended it ( rather than what you want) is really only walking away to spite him.

 

If you REALLY love him, he does the hard work and it is decided mutually that your relationship is worth working further on...why would you simply say "no" because of who did what first?

 

Does it really matter? I am not so sure anymore.

 

What would matter to me BS or OW is that he is clearly committed... If she was to leave him - he would have more work....but that isn't to say I wouldn't consider it.

 

Personally, in it... I never seen it as a competition.... I don't view it as one now.

[BB07]

Since I know the real circumstances now of my xmm fake separations and finally a real separation, I would say that both myself and the bs, HS/SS have WON in that we have the truth of what a sorry piece of ****e he is.

[jwi71]

Just a question derived from a recent thread that got me to thinking.

 

I left the EA, so did exDM's exW win/loose by default?

 

She, after a few months moved out, and filed a few months after that. Did I win/loose by default?

 

That's a REALLY good question.

 

I'm not sure there is an answer as it will be relative to the asker.

 

So, PiH...what do you think? Did YOU win? Lose?

 

As I think about it in my own situation...I am both.

 

I failed utterly in many ways as a husband and father. That clearly makes me a loser. I spent almost two years in IC, facing demons, healing, learning, recovering - my IC finally kicked me out

In that, I am a winner.

 

And maybe that's the answer. Its a progression.

 

For me, I began as a loser and turned it into a win. As defined by me in terms of me...notice I don't speak of anyone else...just me. That's the only measure that counts...do I think I won?

 

I do. As the me here and now finally has everything going my way.

[Ellin]

I believe it is completely unhelpful to view anything that happens in an A as someone winning or losing.

 

It's just one of those difficult life situations that are trying for everyone involved and the only win one can have is if this lesson helped them become better / wiser / stronger.

 

There is absolutely no need for this score settling. There are just three people struggling with their choices.

 

Three human beings who all have capacity for loving and getting hurt, they all have their life stories that affect their present and they all have their doubts about the future.

[Myowntwofeet]

I believe it is completely unhelpful to view anything that happens in an A as someone winning or losing.

 

It's just one of those difficult life situations that are trying for everyone involved and the only win one can have is if this lesson helped them become better / wiser / stronger.

 

There is absolutely no need for this score settling. There are just three people struggling with their choices.

 

Three human beings who all have capacity for loving and getting hurt, they all have their life stories that affect their present and they all have their doubts about the future.

 

Excellent post!

 

Like I said.... All in boats, all have life jackets on and all are in uncharted territory.

 

If people would only realize that hearts, relationships are NOT competitions and are far more about humans, mistakes, and growth.... we would all be better.

 

I can't say what I would do, because it is a hypothetical question and if I have learned anything in this past year it is to NEVER say NEVER.

 

Have I won anything? Growth - painful, incredibly hard but yes... I guess I have.... but again that is independent of my relationship or non relationship with MM - we have all grown and hopefully will continue without taking out a checkmark list to see who is "better", or worse " who won'

[pureinheart]

You know, clearly I struggle with it and I do want him to make the best decision for him

 

A counselor I was seeing way back when things blew up said this to me

 

" You love him, that is obvious - saying you wouldn't work on a relationship because of who ended it ( rather than what you want) is really only walking away to spite him.

 

If you REALLY love him, he does the hard work and it is decided mutually that your relationship is worth working further on...why would you simply say "no" because of who did what first?

 

Does it really matter? I am not so sure anymore.

 

What would matter to me BS or OW is that he is clearly committed... If she was to leave him - he would have more work....but that isn't to say I wouldn't consider it.

 

Personally, in it... I never seen it as a competition.... I don't view it as one now.

 

LOL, for the first time in LS I didn't tj...I had heard this in your thread and have heard it stated in various situations in LS and became curious as to what people thought.

 

I'm not in the R anymore, but am still dealing with it in some ways and wanted to discuss it with you guys.

 

I don't see it as competition either, my sitch was way out of the norm.

 

Having been all of the above BS (a lot), WS, and OW at various points in my life, and also having been through a great deal have learned that everything in the end (or beginning) is a win-win situation.

 

We are all winners no matter what happens because certainly life events (good and bad) shape us, although they don't define us...what defines us is what we learned from it all (learnt?...am I using improper grammar?).

 

Some lessons I just didn't get it, others I learned (learnt) the first time or relised prior it wasn't good...some things just happened, with my knowledge, but they happened...let's just say I've spilt (spilled) (I need to go back to school) a lot of milk and am tired of crying over it and choose the next 50 to be fruitful:D

[pureinheart]

Looks like nobody wins here! Seems to be the way it goes when people make these choices. It just wrecks families...

 

Hi FF, the A ruins families?...I am in the mind that in most cases the M was in trouble and the A is the result.

[pureinheart]

For me the tail tell signs is who filed? If it was the BS then I think you lose. Personally I think it would have to come from the WS. I think you know why too.....

 

In my case...and this is completely up for debate that exDM was lying/telling the truth. All I can go by is what he said (his kids backed it up though and they are more towards their mother for good and bad reasons).

 

He said that the deal breaker for her was him not merging his money with hers...even with all of the A's they both had it was the money that caused her to move out.

 

He got scared because there was a sizable amount of money involved...a lot of money that he received as inheritance and had to prove the monies weren't mingled (long story)....he was in the process of taking care of business and hadn't quite finished.

 

Several months after they separated he tried to get her back..."he said" that he wanted her to move in for one day due to money reasons (we weren't together yet)...I guess he pissed her off bad and she filed a restraining order and filed D papers.

 

I'm not under any delusions...he worked it...I personally think he would have stayed with her if the price was right...money is his god.

 

He asked me to eventually M him shortly after receiving the D papers...I was "hoping" it was for real.

 

In retrospect, I think he loved us both in his own way...he's not a bad person/guy, he's just been through a lot and after a 30 yr M ...a 30 yr interesting R to say the least...well that is a big change for anyone.

 

I think he was clinging on to me because I was familiar and safe, we did have a special comradery/friendship at one time...there are things we will both take to our grave due to a certain amount of loyalty.

 

I with him all of the best...

[Silly_Girl]

I don't think I knew your story PIH. Harsh. For everyone. But you sound pretty darn balanced.

[skylarblue]

I think you both won if you chose to make your own decision for what is right and conducive to your happiness and expectations in life without waiting or giving someone else the power to make the decision for you (regardless of who ended it with whom first).

[pureinheart]

I see it as everybody losing something. I'm not sure any person would be the winner in an A. What is the person actually winning? A cheating spouse/lover? This goes for both the AP and the BS's. Did I win my cheating H because he did not leave me for the OW? I don't think so. When my own A ended (my xAP ended for his long-term girlfriend) I felt that "I lost" kinda feeling. The only thing I lost was my integrity:laugh:

 

I'm not sure anyone comes out the winner in these situations.

 

You learned (learnt?) a lot though...lots of pain, I feel your pain LD...there will be a day that it will all make sense.

 

If we lived through it...we won IMO....I suppose intentionality is actually the issue here...I don't think many of us (except Lizzy:p) intentionally get into these things...to me it's like taking heroin and hoping that one will not become an addict:eek:...your doin good LD:)

 

I won my life back. I lost what I believed was my past. I lost any happy memories that I thought I had with him. And I lost the man I thought I married. My kids lost him but gained me. They lost respect for him and gained respect for me. They lost their innocence in blind trust but gained a new way of dealing with people...the assuption they are lying unless proven otherwise. Wait...maybe that isn't so good after all. But why would either their father or his owomen care?

 

Bent, you sure did, and you my friend (if you don't mind me saying that:p) have come a VERY long way...it's been hard, but you lost 200 lb's and in your case that is a very good thing.

 

You might even actually like him someday...I know this is reaching ok..but anything can happen.

 

You know, my granddaughter is only 18mo and she is extremely leary of people...she has to study an individual for a longggg time...it has to be consecutive also as she will forget you and you have to start all over:)...point though, it's a good thing your kids are not walking in blind trust...in this world a hand shake doesn't cut it...there has to be a team of lawyers (no offense SG)...that's the world we live in.

 

People on the streets, knocking on doors saying they need money for this and that and the other thing...are they telling the truth or is panhandling a lucrative income?

 

I have a tendancy to get sucked in by a hard luck story....even though I had to work hard for everything I have and have worked hard all of my life in one form or another, I am unable to see the free loader? Go figure...

 

I know you feel he killed all of it (memories and such), but don't let him...those are yours, not his. Ok so he deceived concerning who he was...that is HIS bad...you were innocent in that and you did the right thing by loving him...(don't hate me for saying that...k...)...I don't think you were wrong in loving him...

[pureinheart]

You know, clearly I struggle with it and I do want him to make the best decision for him

 

A counselor I was seeing way back when things blew up said this to me

 

" You love him, that is obvious - saying you wouldn't work on a relationship because of who ended it ( rather than what you want) is really only walking away to spite him.

 

If you REALLY love him, he does the hard work and it is decided mutually that your relationship is worth working further on...why would you simply say "no" because of who did what first?

 

Does it really matter? I am not so sure anymore.

 

Personally, in it... I never seen it as a competition.... I don't view it as one now.

 

Told the story in an prior reply...in my case it didn't bother me that she separated and filed...even if he lied about any part of what went down it still didn't take away from what we had.

 

I knew the first day I met him (over 10 yrs ago) that his M was over, it was only a matter of time.

 

Whether I'm right or wrong, I don't think it matters either...I based my decision to walk from the R because of what went down afterwards...I needed to see it all through first, which is not uncommon IMO

 

What would matter to me BS or OW is that he is clearly committed... If she was to leave him - he would have more work....but that isn't to say I wouldn't consider it.

[pureinheart]

Since I know the real circumstances now of my xmm fake separations and finally a real separation, I would say that both myself and the bs, HS/SS have WON in that we have the truth of what a sorry piece of ****e he is.

 

And still BB, I am so sorry for you and HSSS...even though you two did win in fact, there is still a bit of a road ahead, although I bet it will be totally done for you quick...HSSS has the D to deal with...and that is not easy...I hope you guys are there for each other...

[pureinheart]

That's a REALLY good question.

 

I'm not sure there is an answer as it will be relative to the asker.

 

So, PiH...what do you think? Did YOU win? Lose?

 

As I think about it in my own situation...I am both.

 

I failed utterly in many ways as a husband and father. That clearly makes me a loser. I spent almost two years in IC, facing demons, healing, learning, recovering - my IC finally kicked me out

In that, I am a winner.

 

And maybe that's the answer. Its a progression.

 

For me, I began as a loser and turned it into a win. As defined by me in terms of me...notice I don't speak of anyone else...just me. That's the only measure that counts...do I think I won?

 

I do. As the me here and now finally has everything going my way.

 

Hi JW,

 

Well have to say, that after being through soooo much and there always being a silver lining, that I have the evidence that I am always a winner no matter what.

 

Concerning exDM I was discouraged and went through a lot of different emotions, although knew that I had done everything in my power to make things right in all cases and stages of the R.

 

It's always been very easy for me to walk away when I know I'm doing the right thing, whether it be for someone else or myself.

 

Many may not agree, although I think we all won in this particular situation, there is much detail that is important and it all fits together. After meeting exDM's sister, she told me that she was glad that her brother and exW were D'ed (his entire family felt this way). I guess he had tried to break away before, although failed...his family used to get disappointed at the failed attempts. Like I've communicated many time in the past the M was toxic to say the least, and there is no exaggeration at all, in fact actually understating many events.

 

Certainly there were many painful times for all involved, and during the pain one can feel like a "loser" or the loser, but after allowing myself to feel emotions for exDM, and having the R fail, the next step was to withdrawl per se from the feelings...I knew it was a natural process to events that didn't go the way "I" thought they would, but they were the way it was meant to be so I am ok with that.

 

 

Now JW, concerning you...because you were not perfect and messed up...personally I don't think that makes you a loser, failure, nothing...to me it makes you human.

 

Quite frankly I know you say that a series of things helped you deal with your mistakes...although you had to want to do them and you did...personally I don't see you as a loser at all during any of it...after reading all your replies to others and seeing how thoughtful you are ...you may have had issues (don't we all) but JW, there is a core person at work here, you were always you....I can't wrap my brain around you ever being uncool do to the core person that I see.

 

I respect what you say and understand, although your heart is way too cool ....personally I think your exW was the one that lost...bigtime.

[pureinheart]

I don't think I knew your story PIH. Harsh. For everyone. But you sound pretty darn balanced.

 

Mine wasn't the norm as if there is one....lol....thanks SG, it's amazing isn't it, what doesn't kill you does make you stronger:D

 

You sound quite stable for all you've been through...successful too:D

[pureinheart]

I think you both won if you chose to make your own decision for what is right and conducive to your happiness and expectations in life without waiting or giving someone else the power to make the decision for you (regardless of who ended it with whom first).

 

Wow Sky, this is way profound...this makes a lot of sense, and thanks it helped me a lot:D

[pureinheart]

I believe it is completely unhelpful to view anything that happens in an A as someone winning or losing.

 

It's just one of those difficult life situations that are trying for everyone involved and the only win one can have is if this lesson helped them become better / wiser / stronger.

 

There is absolutely no need for this score settling. There are just three people struggling with their choices.

 

Three human beings who all have capacity for loving and getting hurt, they all have their life stories that affect their present and they all have their doubts about the future.

 

I suppose it works for some as every sitch is different...the measuring stick I use is always on the winning end, no matter what:D.

 

I know mine was met with some extreme extenuating circumstances and I'm glad it's over and there is my whole life ahead:D