Spark1111 Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 After seeing lying brought up so many times I was unable to help myself, especially after seeing a rather disturbing response in another forum about a guy that abused his gf...he came off like he was ok and then the truth was exposed by physically abusing her...it broke my heart to read it:(. IMO we all lie...some obviously more than others. One poster gave an explanation of why a person might lie to his W, sparing feelings and such...I think we lie to spare feelings at times, I know I have. What line does one have to cross to go into that place of the unpardonable sin, meaning the lie that truely damages to the point of no return...I'm not completely wording this the way I'd like, although I hope I have communicated the just of what I'm getting at. Personally I think when we are lied to it hurts the heart and then the ego gets in there, like "how could they do that?". I think at this point a snowball effect takes place, one emotion after another. When I've lied to someone else or an organization I have never felt the same impact I did when I was lied to. Now am better able to understand lying, because I have done it...but where should I draw the line? Should it be drawn at the point that I deem it to be not quite so hurtful? There is no off topic per se because I am looking at all aspects of lying...I put it in this forum as the frequency of the mentioning of lying is higher. I think telling of little white lies, such as "your butt does not look too big in those pants," is actually a sign or emotional intelligence. I think telling bigger white lies, such as not disclosing the hatred of a step mother is crucial to the healthy, mental development of a young child. White lies do not serve any ulterior motives of the teller. Rather they protect the feelings of another when the disclosure of the truth would only serve to hurt or demean someone's feelings on an issue of no great importance or of great importance, like stepmom's love, that cannot be changed. Only the teller of lies can know their own motivation. PIH, if you have identified it is mostly fear-based, the next step is to define: What is it I am afraid of?
Author pureinheart Posted July 19, 2010 Author Posted July 19, 2010 I think telling of little white lies, such as "your butt does not look too big in those pants," is actually a sign or emotional intelligence. I think telling bigger white lies, such as not disclosing the hatred of a step mother is crucial to the healthy, mental development of a young child. White lies do not serve any ulterior motives of the teller. Rather they protect the feelings of another when the disclosure of the truth would only serve to hurt or demean someone's feelings on an issue of no great importance or of great importance, like stepmom's love, that cannot be changed. Only the teller of lies can know their own motivation. PIH, if you have identified it is mostly fear-based, the next step is to define: What is it I am afraid of? This is really good Spark (as usual:)) . What provoked my concern and found that the big lie I wanted to tell was fear based...lol...that was the next question...where is the fear coming from? There was great reason to lie. No one would have found out if I lied or not. From an experience I was told that, and this is from an extremely reliable source, in a nutshell, the person who says they have no past or says they never lie, nor does anything wrong, that is a very deceived person. I ended up not lying, but, asked God could I please lie, just this time, I could loose everything...blah, blah, blah...He said no, I gave you everything you have and it is up to Me whether you have it or not. That removed the fear, knowing I'm in control of nothing, although being put in that situation caused me to have understanding in more than one idea or direction concerning lying and the liar. I've never been much of a liar or a good one at that, mostly because I don't care...not lying much doesn't make me a wonderful person, I just don't want to.
Author pureinheart Posted July 19, 2010 Author Posted July 19, 2010 Not to complicate matters further - buuuuut: In the Bible, during the time of Moses' birth, the king had ordered all Hebrew baby boys to be killed. The midwives were to kill all baby boys as they were delivered. Two of the Hebrew midwives refused to obey. When questioned by the authorities, they lied by saying that the babies were being born before they could get to the birthing house. Because they refused to kill the babies, the scriptures say G-d blessed the. With homes and families ofmtheir own. And the Ten Commandments - the one about lying . . . That's not exactly what it say. It says we should not bear false witness. In other words, don't tell lies on another person. It also says that Satan is a liar and the father of lies. Also many times in history hiding people from harm that they didn't deserve such as slavery and the Jewish people from Hitler...there had to be deception in that...but that would be worth it to me...I'd lie for that, in a heartbeat. Wow FOG, I was thinking about the Bible and lying, and just trying to put the pieces together:)...this one is deep.....gonnma have to do a study:)
Author pureinheart Posted July 19, 2010 Author Posted July 19, 2010 No reflection on you, I have no reason to believe you are lying (irony?) but I find it difficult to grasp. Would you mind giving me an example of something you might have told a white lie about previously, that you no longer would? For example, I don't care if I live to a thousand, there will be a Santa every December in the lives of those children I am close to. I hate lying, and have been known to behave quite disproportionately when lied to, and I do the 'actually, no I don't love your new sofa' type of remark, which makes me oh-so-popular . But as much as I attempt to never lie, there are times I do. I definitely did to my son, about his dad and step-mum, when I made excuses for them for years. I don't now, but put me back there and I'd do exactly the same thing again. Wow, I'd forgotten about the lies I told my kids...what about the lies we believe that society tells us, the lies we tell ourselves. I get this feeling I'll be in tears here real soon:eek:
wheelwright Posted July 19, 2010 Posted July 19, 2010 I think telling of little white lies, such as "your butt does not look too big in those pants," is actually a sign or emotional intelligence. I think telling bigger white lies, such as not disclosing the hatred of a step mother is crucial to the healthy, mental development of a young child. White lies do not serve any ulterior motives of the teller. Rather they protect the feelings of another when the disclosure of the truth would only serve to hurt or demean someone's feelings on an issue of no great importance or of great importance, like stepmom's love, that cannot be changed. Only the teller of lies can know their own motivation. PIH, if you have identified it is mostly fear-based, the next step is to define: What is it I am afraid of? On this interesting thread, Spark's post seemed closest to how I think of it. However, I have been flamed previously for daring to suggest that A lies are just another form of white lies. Even though my thread was exploratory, it was read as inflammatory. But if we say that some white lies are acceptable, then I do not see how any form of lying done to save the hurt of the other can be objectively judged - the judgement about level of lie and kind of hurt are in the hands of the liar. You are gaslighting an obese person every time you say they look fine - because even if it's true in how you see them, you know others don't feel the same. I think it comes down to trust - if you trust the person to tell you the truth on whatever the issue - does my bum look big or are you cheating - then you betray. Don't betray people who are worthy of your trust. I find lies of omission where the omitted fact is hurtful especially difficult. Am I betraying my friend if she looks awful in x clothing or if I know her H is sleeping around and don't tell her when not asked? At any rate, the liar/truthteller has to make decisions about their perceptions of what is good for another person. I liked the bible story where lies are told to protect others. It has to be done sometimes. Judgement is unfortunately all. Unfortunately, because we don't always judge right. And ultimately, the truth of this matter lies in the heart of the lied to person when they find out. And none of us like it if we were not properly empathised with before the truth outs. And the type of lies people tell - well it's a window to their soul no less. And souls are as comlicated as the lies they tell.
Author pureinheart Posted July 19, 2010 Author Posted July 19, 2010 Wow, everyone is bringing up some excellent stuff, much for me to learn from. The friend/relative where the SO is seeing someone else...this one I'm sure is difficult for all.
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