pureinheart Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 After seeing lying brought up so many times I was unable to help myself, especially after seeing a rather disturbing response in another forum about a guy that abused his gf...he came off like he was ok and then the truth was exposed by physically abusing her...it broke my heart to read it:(. IMO we all lie...some obviously more than others. One poster gave an explanation of why a person might lie to his W, sparing feelings and such...I think we lie to spare feelings at times, I know I have. What line does one have to cross to go into that place of the unpardonable sin, meaning the lie that truely damages to the point of no return...I'm not completely wording this the way I'd like, although I hope I have communicated the just of what I'm getting at. Personally I think when we are lied to it hurts the heart and then the ego gets in there, like "how could they do that?". I think at this point a snowball effect takes place, one emotion after another. When I've lied to someone else or an organization I have never felt the same impact I did when I was lied to. Now am better able to understand lying, because I have done it...but where should I draw the line? Should it be drawn at the point that I deem it to be not quite so hurtful? There is no off topic per se because I am looking at all aspects of lying...I put it in this forum as the frequency of the mentioning of lying is higher.
Untouchable_Fire Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 There is no off topic per se because I am looking at all aspects of lying...I put it in this forum as the frequency of the mentioning of lying is higher. PIH, There is a reason we value honesty. Liars are not good people.
BB07 Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 All forms of lies other than the white lies we tell by not saying.......yes hon that haircut looks like hell on you........are hurtful and deceitful and can possibly carry more pain down the road to more than just the person who is being told the lie. After seeing lying brought up so many times I was unable to help myself, especially after seeing a rather disturbing response in another forum about a guy that abused his gf...he came off like he was ok and then the truth was exposed by physically abusing her...it broke my heart to read it:(. IMO we all lie...some obviously more than others. One poster gave an explanation of why a person might lie to his W, sparing feelings and such...I think we lie to spare feelings at times, I know I have. I think most of the time when people lie......it's to save their own ass. What line does one have to cross to go into that place of the unpardonable sin, meaning the lie that truely damages to the point of no return...I'm not completely wording this the way I'd like, although I hope I have communicated the just of what I'm getting at. Personally I think when we are lied to it hurts the heart and then the ego gets in there, like "how could they do that?". I think at this point a snowball effect takes place, one emotion after another. When I've lied to someone else or an organization I have never felt the same impact I did when I was lied to. Of course it hurts more, when we are on the receiving end of a lie and it should. It should teach us not to make someone feel that way. Now am better able to understand lying, because I have done it...but where should I draw the line? Should it be drawn at the point that I deem it to be not quite so hurtful? There is no off topic per se because I am looking at all aspects of lying...I put it in this forum as the frequency of the mentioning of lying is higher. I would have probably answered this question differently two weeks ago, but I've changed my thought processes a lot for some reason.
norajane Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 Now am better able to understand lying, because I have done it...but where should I draw the line? Should it be drawn at the point that I deem it to be not quite so hurtful?If you're trying to get away with something... If you're trying to make yourself look "better" in some way to someone... If you're trying to get something out of it that benefits you and hurts someone else... If you're trying to hide something... If the shoe were on the other foot and someone told you that same lie and you would be upset... If you're trying to manipulate someone... If you're trying to fool or cheat someone out of something... If your lie is betraying someone's trust and faith in you... If you wouldn't want anyone to know that you lied... Basically, if your motives are selfish, you should draw the line there.
Author pureinheart Posted July 18, 2010 Author Posted July 18, 2010 PIH, There is a reason we value honesty. Liars are not good people. Are you honest all of the time? I have heard before that if one has ever lied, that makes them a liar.
Author pureinheart Posted July 18, 2010 Author Posted July 18, 2010 All forms of lies other than the white lies we tell by not saying.......yes hon that haircut looks like hell on you........are hurtful and deceitful and can possibly carry more pain down the road to more than just the person who is being told the lie. I would have probably answered this question differently two weeks ago, but I've changed my thought processes a lot for some reason. I know BB, I am so very sorry...although had to laugh...not making light of your sitch though...k... I really try not to lie, in fact when filling out my absentee cards from work told the truth. Really what can actually happen by telling the truth...nothing IMO...in most cases it's not a real big sacrifice. The weird thing about me is I will lie to myself before I lie to you, and know that makes absolutely no sense.
Author pureinheart Posted July 18, 2010 Author Posted July 18, 2010 If you're trying to get away with something... If you're trying to make yourself look "better" in some way to someone... If you're trying to get something out of it that benefits you and hurts someone else... If you're trying to hide something... If the shoe were on the other foot and someone told you that same lie and you would be upset... If you're trying to manipulate someone... If you're trying to fool or cheat someone out of something... If your lie is betraying someone's trust and faith in you... If you wouldn't want anyone to know that you lied... Basically, if your motives are selfish, you should draw the line there. This is really good NJ, very thought provoking. I am not a good liar, I look like I'm lying when I'm telling the truth lol... I've noticed many mention lying and it has been happening a lot to me lately. Also other types of manipulations, like if a person has a item they purchased a year ago and it breaks, I have seen them by a new one, put the broken one in the box and take it back. I feel bad and guilty and have this conscience that will not let me rest, even with little things...but I know I'm not above reproach. I love your measuring stick, it's very helpful:)
NoIDidn't Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 Are you honest all of the time? I have heard before that if one has ever lied, that makes them a liar. I think you miss the point. Someone lying to maintain an affair isn't just telling the occasional lie. They are building their life at that moment on lies - to themselves and to others. Of course Untouchable_Fire has probably lied before. That doesn't change the truth of what was posted. Because even liars don't trust other liars.
Author pureinheart Posted July 18, 2010 Author Posted July 18, 2010 PIH, There is a reason we value honesty. Liars are not good people. I think you miss the point. Someone lying to maintain an affair isn't just telling the occasional lie. They are building their life at that moment on lies - to themselves and to others. Of course Untouchable_Fire has probably lied before. That doesn't change the truth of what was posted. Because even liars don't trust other liars. Well, no, got the point. To say that liars are not good people isn't always the case. The poster was not specific as to what type of lie/lies. We all carry both good and bad qualities that are in operation 24/7. I mean there is always that one thing in my life that I just can't get a handle on, does this deem me to be a bad person? Fear causes people to lie (or one cause)...I have wanted to lie soooo many times in my life, carry out a vengeful thought (or many vengeful thoughts:p), although was unable to because it takes too much energy. It takes too much energy and thought to remember my lies, so in myself take the path of least of resistance. I just feel bad for those who fear a situation so much that it would cause the dreaded lie...I find myself grateful not to be in that situation or in that position. I feel bad about the hurt that lies cause, although here again thinking how can I judge anyone when I have lied too...does this make sense?
Author pureinheart Posted July 18, 2010 Author Posted July 18, 2010 I think you miss the point. Someone lying to maintain an affair isn't just telling the occasional lie. They are building their life at that moment on lies - to themselves and to others. Of course Untouchable_Fire has probably lied before. That doesn't change the truth of what was posted. Because even liars don't trust other liars. The foundation...concerning compulsive lying...life is based on a lie/lies at the time. I can tell by this statement (bold) you have a lot of forgiveness:)
Untouchable_Fire Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 Well, no, got the point. To say that liars are not good people isn't always the case. The poster was not specific as to what type of lie/lies. We all carry both good and bad qualities that are in operation 24/7. I mean there is always that one thing in my life that I just can't get a handle on, does this deem me to be a bad person? Fear causes people to lie (or one cause)...I have wanted to lie soooo many times in my life, carry out a vengeful thought (or many vengeful thoughts:p), although was unable to because it takes too much energy. It takes too much energy and thought to remember my lies, so in myself take the path of least of resistance. I just feel bad for those who fear a situation so much that it would cause the dreaded lie...I find myself grateful not to be in that situation or in that position. I feel bad about the hurt that lies cause, although here again thinking how can I judge anyone when I have lied too...does this make sense? When your lies hurt others... or deprive them of choices... that makes you a bad person. Not to say this is to be judged solely by the lies effect. The intent counts for much too. Life is not for the cowardly.
Author pureinheart Posted July 18, 2010 Author Posted July 18, 2010 When your lies hurt others... or deprive them of choices... that makes you a bad person. Not to say this is to be judged solely by the lies effect. The intent counts for much too. Life is not for the cowardly. For understandings sake, am I to understand that I am a bad person when I lie, although the lie you told didn't make you a bad person. What I am seeing is an inability to see your own faults, although are able to see others. Yes, I do understand when we hurt others this is not cool, don't the majority of lies hurt others? Directly/indirectly?
hopesndreams Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 For understandings sake, am I to understand that I am a bad person when I lie, although the lie you told didn't make you a bad person. What I am seeing is an inability to see your own faults, although are able to see others. Yes, I do understand when we hurt others this is not cool, don't the majority of lies hurt others? Directly/indirectly? I choose not to hurt others directly or indirectly. How old are you pureinheart? It isn't a put down. It's just that when I was younger, in my 20's, I was in the same quandary. As I got older, and with that, comes wisdom, there was no more need for me to lie, manipulate and twist the truth to get a favorable outcome for myself at the expense of others. Just tell it like it is. It's the best way, for everyone.
Author pureinheart Posted July 18, 2010 Author Posted July 18, 2010 I choose not to hurt others directly or indirectly. How old are you pureinheart? It isn't a put down. It's just that when I was younger, in my 20's, I was in the same quandary. As I got older, and with that, comes wisdom, there was no more need for me to lie, manipulate and twist the truth to get a favorable outcome for myself at the expense of others. Just tell it like it is. It's the best way, for everyone. No, not taken wrong in fact a compliment as I have been really tripping about my age...BTW I'm way past 20:). Fifty actually:( I tried to be clear in the OP, although I have been emtional about this and want to put it to rest. Many people do lie and from what I read and hear lying is about the worst thing a person could do. In looking at this matter, even though I take a lot of pride in not lying, find I still do and have found that I have wanted to and have chosen not to. I investigated my own intentions and reasons and found fear was a great motivator. It sounds to me by wording that others communicate is "you are a liar and I never lie"...in looking at myself certainly I don't tell the "big" lies anymore, although I still lie and believe we all do in some manor, so therefore I am wondering if I have a right to judge anothers "lies"...we can observe a lie, although if we do it also, no matter how small, how can we call out another? Are there any out there that believe lying has subsided and they never lie anymore?
Fieldsofgold Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 I choose not to hurt others directly or indirectly. How old are you pureinheart? It isn't a put down. It's just that when I was younger, in my 20's, I was in the same quandary. As I got older, and with that, comes wisdom, there was no more need for me to lie, manipulate and twist the truth to get a favorable outcome for myself at the expense of others. Just tell it like it is. It's the best way, for everyone. In my early life, I used to lie quite a bit. A family member and a husband with terrible abusive tempers motivated me. I got so sick of it, now I will rarely lie - even about the bad haircut. If a person cares enough to ask my opinion, I should give them my honest (tactful) opinion so they can make different choices next time, if they so choose. However . . . If there is a problem (those pants make your butt look like the Goodyear blimp), and we are in a situation where you can't immediately do anything about it, I would wait til some time later to suggest an alteration. No point in making someone feel uncomfortable when they can't fix it right away. If someone asks me a question that really is none of their business, rather than lie, I don't answer it. I will ask why they want to know. Or I tell them I will have to think about it. I have lied (or maybe it was bluffed) to bust my lying, cheating BF. At any rate, I made a statement I didn't know was true (until after the fact). Generally, my take on lying is this: I believe the best friend is the one who, kindly and tactfully, tells you the truth as they see it, not the one who flatters you or tells you what you want to hear. If I am not ashamed of what I have done, then I have no reason to lie to anyone about it. If I am ashamed of something I am doing, then I need to acknowledge it and change my actions.
hopesndreams Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 Are there any out there that believe lying has subsided and they never lie anymore? I haven't lied, in regard to anything, for almost 8 years now. Yes, it can be done. It isn't even difficult. It's just natural for me now. Practice makes perfect.
Silly_Girl Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 Are there any out there that believe lying has subsided and they never lie anymore? I haven't lied, in regard to anything, for almost 8 years now. Yes, it can be done. It isn't even difficult. It's just natural for me now. Practice makes perfect. No reflection on you, I have no reason to believe you are lying (irony?) but I find it difficult to grasp. Would you mind giving me an example of something you might have told a white lie about previously, that you no longer would? For example, I don't care if I live to a thousand, there will be a Santa every December in the lives of those children I am close to. I hate lying, and have been known to behave quite disproportionately when lied to, and I do the 'actually, no I don't love your new sofa' type of remark, which makes me oh-so-popular . But as much as I attempt to never lie, there are times I do. I definitely did to my son, about his dad and step-mum, when I made excuses for them for years. I don't now, but put me back there and I'd do exactly the same thing again.
Fieldsofgold Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 Not to complicate matters further - buuuuut: In the Bible, during the time of Moses' birth, the king had ordered all Hebrew baby boys to be killed. The midwives were to kill all baby boys as they were delivered. Two of the Hebrew midwives refused to obey. When questioned by the authorities, they lied by saying that the babies were being born before they could get to the birthing house. Because they refused to kill the babies, the scriptures say G-d blessed the. With homes and families ofmtheir own. And the Ten Commandments - the one about lying . . . That's not exactly what it say. It says we should not bear false witness. In other words, don't tell lies on another person. It also says that Satan is a liar and the father of lies.
hopesndreams Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 Not to complicate matters further - buuuuut: In the Bible, during the time of Moses' birth, the king had ordered all Hebrew baby boys to be killed. The midwives were to kill all baby boys as they were delivered. Two of the Hebrew midwives refused to obey. When questioned by the authorities, they lied by saying that the babies were being born before they could get to the birthing house. Because they refused to kill the babies, the scriptures say G-d blessed the. With homes and families ofmtheir own. And the Ten Commandments - the one about lying . . . That's not exactly what it say. It says we should not bear false witness. In other words, don't tell lies on another person. It also says that Satan is a liar and the father of lies. Would I lie to save a life? Absolutely. That just hasn't come up yet, if it ever will.
hopesndreams Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 No reflection on you, I have no reason to believe you are lying (irony?) but I find it difficult to grasp. Would you mind giving me an example of something you might have told a white lie about previously, that you no longer would? For example, I don't care if I live to a thousand, there will be a Santa every December in the lives of those children I am close to. I hate lying, and have been known to behave quite disproportionately when lied to, and I do the 'actually, no I don't love your new sofa' type of remark, which makes me oh-so-popular . But as much as I attempt to never lie, there are times I do. I definitely did to my son, about his dad and step-mum, when I made excuses for them for years. I don't now, but put me back there and I'd do exactly the same thing again. I don't understand what the difficulty you are having, in grasping, that there are some people in the world that don't lie. Lying hurts. Not just others but yourself. If the truth were told from the get go, you wouldn't have had to lie to protect your son from the truth. Why would you lie for years again? The truth came out eventually, yes? No one died from it.
Silly_Girl Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 I don't understand what the difficulty you are having, in grasping, that there are some people in the world that don't lie. Lying hurts. Not just others but yourself. If the truth were told from the get go, you wouldn't have had to lie to protect your son from the truth. Why would you lie for years again? The truth came out eventually, yes? No one died from it. Please don't make assumptions. My son's step-mother told him she hated him. And lots and lots of other stuff. I would never allow my 8 yr old child to believe that. Or all the other stuff that went with it. I minimised things that happened, offered alternative explanations, and lied about her intentions and feelings towards my son. Now that he is 13 he has his own grasp, and is making his own conclusions, but no way would I have let him go through what she was attempting to put him through. I lied to him, I looked him in the eye and lied. It hurt like hell, but not as much as he'd have hurt if I was constantly clearing up the mess the selfish people in his life kept creating. Same as Father Christmas. It's a lie. Same as telling my gorgeous little nephew he 'sings beautifully' when he rang to wish me happy birthday. It was atrocious! But please, if you wouldn't mind, I am genuinely interested in hearing what you might have lied about before, and now don't lie about, and try to understand the difference and the impact of your choice.
hopesndreams Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 I have told you the truth. I have not lied in almost 8 years. Do you want to know about my little white lies before I made it a point to be truthful? What would be the point in that?
Silly_Girl Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 I have told you the truth. I have not lied in almost 8 years. Do you want to know about my little white lies before I made it a point to be truthful? What would be the point in that? I'm only trying to understand. I DO sometimes tell white lies. I am opposed to lying. There's a problem there, clearly. You say you've 'given up lying', so I am trying to understand: what type of lying how often are there any negative consequences to this life choice I'm genuinely interested as I have rarely heard anyone claim to NEVER lie, and I'd like to know more. I am sorry if my posts have offended you but in reality I'm trying to learn from you and would hope that wouldn't cause you any issues.
hopesndreams Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 It sounds to me like you're taking the p*ss. I honestly do not know what you are getting at. Sorry if that offends you.
Silly_Girl Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 It sounds to me like you're taking the p*ss. I honestly do not know what you are getting at. Sorry if that offends you. Whoa!!! You're not prepared to elaborate. I geddit! I give up.
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