she seems unwilling to end communication with OM

[Maggotface]

She has certainly not been a good wife. What she has done will be very damaging to your marriage and it will be hard to recover from. Not only will you never forget you will also have to keep an eye on her because she might cheat on you again if not with the same man someone else.

[RobD70]

I agree with all the negative Nancy’s on here. Being nice or accommodating to her will NOT bring her closer to you, she has lost respect for you and you putting up with her makes you look pathetic in her eyes.

 

The only way to save your marriage is to try to end it. She has to want to end it with the OM and want to be into the marriage 100% for this to work and the status quo is only going to make things worse. You have to take a stand and kick her out and file for the D ASAP. Leave it up to her to fight for the marriage. She now has to convince you that she is worth keeping. Any attempt to be nice will just make her look down on you.

 

That being said you should not forgive her and once you get your self esteem back you’ll see that. My wife didn’t sleep with the OM until after we separated and she moved out but had she done it while we were in the same house I would had been long divorce by now with no regrets. Your problem now is your confidence has been shattered so concentrate on rebuilding that and you’ll do the right thing.

[wannagocamping]

I want to thank everyone for the advice, I have read all of the posts many times and I have taken them to heart. I have not gotten angry with my wife because it is truly not who I am. I spoke with her about the situation and let her know that status quo was unacceptable, that if she indeed chooses to be with me, that she returns the stuff and is NC. I can leave my wife, but I don't want to. I have had 8 wonderful years and 6 bad months. It is a lot of work, and it is not easy, but if we can work things out than our marriage will be better, if not, then I can leave with the satisfaction that I have been a good person, and I have done everything that I could to save it.

 

I am actually fortunate that we have no children involved, unlike the OM. We have been to counceling 9 times, with minimal real outcome from the therapist, we will be switching to a recommended therapist. We are working on things, and I am going on a limb with this but I will never regret my efforts, I know myself and I would hate myself for giving up too early. We all make mistakes, we must learn not to repeat them... that goes for both of us.

 

I am not a simple person, I am idealistic sometimes. I know that I have been a carpet, and that has changed, but I am not a brick wall either... becoming myself again has meant working on my self esteem, my self worth and quelching my thoughts of self harm... I have come far in that, and I am making rational decisions after thinking through the issues, not acting impulsively as I was before.

 

I will write back to let you all know how things are going...

 

Thanks again.

[wannagocamping]

 

I suggest the OP consider 180 to attempt to draw his wife back to his side.

 

What is 180? Walk away?

[Untouchable_Fire]

What is 180? Walk away?

 

I would wager a guess that it meant just stop being a carpet.

 

I'm super glad to hear the changes you have made!

 

Remember it doesn't matter how strong you are with other people... if your weak with her she will see you as a weakling... and women can't love weaklings.

[turnera]

180 means to let her know that you love her, but you will no longer be her puppy dog. You will have your own life. You will not hang on whether she pays attention to you. Don't be so available. If you got her coffee every morning, consider not doing so. If you stay home every night while she goes out, get your own interests and start going out, too.

 

Note that this does NOT mean ignoring her. Just being more confident in yourself and not dying to please her. Dignity. It will get her attention.

 

Did she write a No Contact letter to OM that you sent?

[spriggig]

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore.

2. No frequent phone calls.

3. Do not point out good points in marriage.

4. Do not follow her around the house.

5. Do not encourage talk about the future.

6. Do not ask for help from family members.

7. Do not ask for reassurances.

8. Do not buy gifts.

9. Do not schedule dates together.

10. Do not spy on spouse.

11. Do not say "I Love You".

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on

hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).

21. Never lose your cool.

22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.

23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest

CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

[wannagocamping]

Wanted to follow up a bit. I spoke with WW about how everytime she communicates with OM she destroys a piece of our marriage. I asked her how long she thought our marriage could handle the mixed signals, and she agreed "not long."

 

We're seeing a new counselor that is much better suited for our needs-- (other counselor specialized in drug rehab). WW has stopped contact with OM, but that's partially because he's stopped working at same location, and OMW has been watching like a hawk.

 

I'm still sexually frustrated, and I have been struggling to be faithful in our marriage, but I will not cheat, as I know how it feels. I did discuss it with W and I told her I would leave her before I would cheat.

 

I know that WW really wants to work through things, but I cannot get the mistrust out of my mind, sometimes. I know it will be a while. I have decided that if we cannot work out our sex issues (ie, if she remains sexually unattracted to me, and is not interested in having sex with me), that I CAN leave her, but I certainly don't want to, as I love her. I'm not unattractive, and I have always treated her well--some friends say maybe I am too giving. I have decided to forgive her, and I know that trust will take time. Other than sex, our relationship has really been great--better than it has been in years. We talk more, we do more things and we act closer.

[Bryanp]

"My wife still finds me sexually unattractive....Aside from a sexual relationship everything is fine." What is wrong with this picture?

 

I agree that you are way too giving. If the roles were reversed would you wife be so accepting as you have been for such a sexual affair? Nobody respects a doormat. The day you stand up and say you are going to an attorney to move on and find a woman who respects me and the concept of marriage will be the day she starts finding you more attractive. I guarantee you this. Right now she has a husband who is willing to give and give while she tells you she is sexually unattracted to you and had no problems engaging in a sexual affair behind your back. Why would you wish to love and respect a woman who would engage in all sorts of demeaning and humiliating behavior toward you? Again if you do not respect yourself then who will?

[BB07]

My wife said in therapy that she felt that my use of porn has caused her to be pushed away and feel less intimacy towards me. I amworking on my porn addiction, and I haven't looked at any pornography in 3 mos... realizing how destructive it is and how contrary it is to my morals.

 

First let me say that I'm not faulting you for your wife's affair, that is 100% on her and is/was a bad choice, but........it seems when people offer all their well intentioned advice here they overlook the very thing that probably caused the affair in the first place and also the resulting non attraction that she felt for you because of your confessed porn addiction. So..........wannagocamping, are you still staying away from the porn and do you realize what they did to your wife and do you accept the responsibility for that?

[BB07]

So you're saying its his fault for her affair, and that if he wasn't looking at porn she wouldn't have cheated? Wow, what a load of BS. Porn is not the issue her, it was her refusal to react to the problems in her marriage reasonably. Its not because of the porn that she doesn't find him sexually attractive anymore, its the OM. There are bigger problems here than just looking at a screen full of titz. He's not cheating on her.

 

Excuse me, but you copied my post in your reply so appartenly you missed the part about where I said the affair was not his fault. Here is what I said AGAIN. I'm not faulting you for your wife's affair, that is 100% on her and is/was a bad choice. OK now that we've got that out of they way.

 

How do you know that the porn was not the start of the issue? As a woman I can tell you, that if my man was addicted to porn, I can damn sure say with certainty, that he would be cheating on me. ADDICTED is what the OP said he was, so perhaps you should back up and think again.

 

Most women would consider their man's addiction to porn as cheating on them. Obviously an addiction implies he was seeking out the porn instead of an intimate sexual relationship with his wife, so that was probably the start of the problem. It ain't rocket science.

[BB07]

Here's what you said:"but........it seems when people offer all their well intentioned advice here they overlook the very thing that probably caused the affair in the first place." So basically, your still saying it was his fault and like I said, its not his fault. Its his wife's fault.

 

 

 

It doesn't matter what the start of the issue was. She cheated and still continues to hold OM in her sights. If she had a problem, she should've confronted him and/or divorced him. Plain and simple. Running to another man and coming home blameshifting will not solve the problems. Its most likely he was looking at porn because of what his WW said and did. The guy was not cheating on her.

 

 

 

Wow. So if he looks at porn he's automatically cheating? No wonder you were an OW.

 

 

 

So what? How does that compare to what his W is doing? Perhaps you should check yourself and ask why are you defending this unfaithful wife so much who continues to disrespect someone who is in the service.

 

 

 

This is just your opinion. If that was the case, then a husband who drinks and smokes a lot is cheating.

 

 

 

Obviously the problem was that while his wife denied him sex, she told him she found him unattractive then went into the arms of another man to seek that sexual fulfillment, and that's the problem. You're right, its not rocket science, but you are an OW so I shouldn't be surprised.

 

Nice of you to slight and insult me (calling me an OW) in order to get your opinion heard. Actually it's not nice at all, but since you are the one who mentioned it. I'm NOT an OW now, yes, many years ago I was. So thanks for being a nasty assh&%le and pointing that out just because you didn't like what I said.

 

I stand by what I said.........being addicted to porn is cheating on your spouse.

[BB07]

Looking at porn is not cheating on your spouse. If that's what you think, then I wonder what would be considered not cheating in your book.

 

Of course you stand by what you said. I'm happy for you.

 

Again I will say, looking at porn and having an addiction to porn is two completely different things and the OP admitted he had an addiction, so I was pointed out where the problem could have started. That's all.

 

I think you would find that there are a lot of women who would feel that an addiction to porn would in fact be the same as being cheating on. Remember I said ADDICTION, not just looking at porn.

 

Obviously you think I'm not qualified or have any thing to offer because of my past history having been an OW, so I'll leave you to it, mr bitterman.

[Pillow]

First let me say that I'm not faulting you for your wife's affair, that is 100% on her and is/was a bad choice, but........it seems when people offer all their well intentioned advice here they overlook the very thing that probably caused the affair in the first place and also the resulting non attraction that she felt for you because of your confessed porn addiction. So..........wannagocamping, are you still staying away from the porn and do you realize what they did to your wife and do you accept the responsibility for that?

 

 

I was going to say the same thing. In the process of reconcilliation, if that happens, you are going to have to clean up this porn addiction quick before your wife fully recommits. Addictions are INCREDIBLE lovebusters.

[BB07]

But you said earlier that looking at porn is an addiction, and you said that because he was looking at porn, its his fault that his wife slept with someone else. Now, you're saying that addiction and porn is two different things. It doesn't matter how you phrase it, you're still blaming him for something he didn't cause. Sure, you have your facts straight.

 

You are full of ****e bitterman, all you did was twist my words around as anyone with half a brain can see, so get your facts straight and how about you let this alone and stop the t/j.

[Darth Vader]

Wanted to follow up a bit. I spoke with WW about how everytime she communicates with OM she destroys a piece of our marriage. I asked her how long she thought our marriage could handle the mixed signals, and she agreed "not long."

 

We're seeing a new counselor that is much better suited for our needs-- (other counselor specialized in drug rehab). WW has stopped contact with OM, but that's partially because he's stopped working at same location, and OMW has been watching like a hawk.

 

I'm still sexually frustrated, and I have been struggling to be faithful in our marriage, but I will not cheat, as I know how it feels. I did discuss it with W and I told her I would leave her before I would cheat.

 

I know that WW really wants to work through things, but I cannot get the mistrust out of my mind, sometimes. I know it will be a while. I have decided that if we cannot work out our sex issues (ie, if she remains sexually unattracted to me, and is not interested in having sex with me), that I CAN leave her, but I certainly don't want to, as I love her. I'm not unattractive, and I have always treated her well--some friends say maybe I am too giving. I have decided to forgive her, and I know that trust will take time. Other than sex, our relationship has really been great--better than it has been in years. We talk more, we do more things and we act closer.

 

 

You say you two have no children? OK........ Drop this cheating Bitch of a loser wife you have before she ends up preggers with the OM's Baby!!!!!!!!!

 

DROP HER AND RUUNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

But the key word here is RUN!

You don't need to be tied down to a woman forever who doesn't give a rat's ass about you defending our country! Which BTW, Thank You very much! Divorce this loser chick before she destroys you! She doesn't love if she screws other men while you're in harms way, or in any other way!

[lkjh]

BB07,

I understand what you are saying but starting a post with "Im not blaming you for her affair" and then blaming him by saying the porn caused it seems a little sketchy. You did blame him even if you don't think so

[U2RockZz]

First let me say that I'm not faulting you for your wife's affair, that is 100% on her and is/was a bad choice, but........it seems when people offer all their well intentioned advice here they overlook the very thing that probably caused the affair in the first place and also the resulting non attraction that she felt for you because of your confessed porn addiction. So..........wannagocamping, are you still staying away from the porn and do you realize what they did to your wife and do you accept the responsibility for that?

 

 

don't you think you write lot of bulls***,if you call looking at porn itself is cheating, then what do we call actual cheating.....actual f*****,actual betrayal....people cheat cuz they can....there is no if,but,if only......there is nothing that could have kept op's w from cheating.....it's imbibed in her.....

 

porn and erotica are ubiquitous....it's in movies,commercials in every thing.....but you have to blame it on something or someone cuz you do not have the guts to take the responsibility....and OP does not have the ba*** to stand firm or to say it's enough.........

[wannagocamping]

I was not expecting the debate on the significance of porn use on my M and being the cause for the A. I will say this much. My porn use created a hostile environment within my marriage, a place where my W did not feel comfortable. What is worse is that I would lie and invalidate her concerns. When she confided in friends, they also invalidated her emotions, stating that porn use is normal... well maybe it is, but the level to which I was using porn was disturbing to my W, and I, as her H should have supported her.

 

However. That certainly is not the same, and does not excuse a sexual relationship outside of our M. She should have seperated from me and slept with the OM if that was her goal, not trash our M.

 

In response to questions, I have given up porn, tobacco and caffiene. I work out more regularly and I am doing this for myself now. I could not quit using porn for her, I tried and failed miserably. I have seen a counselor to help with dealing with depression and the issues of addiction and sexual abuse (from when I was a kid). I am much more confident with myself, and I have some self-esteem again.

 

We are also seeing a counselor to work on our sex issues as a couple. Our first couples counselor sucked (specialized in drug rehab), but this guy shows promise. I am optimistic, but realize that there is no certainty. I will follow up.

[Dexter Morgan]

I know that WW really wants to work through things

 

not if she doesn't want to drop contact with OM and only did so because they no longer work together.

 

 

but I cannot get the mistrust out of my mind, sometimes.

 

and you never totally will.

 

 

I know it will be a while. I have decided that if we cannot work out our sex issues (ie, if she remains sexually unattracted to me, and is not interested in having sex with me), that I CAN leave her

 

you should leave her anyway, because no matter what you two work out, she is always going to be a wife that desires other men to be with. she can make good on a promise later to actually be physically faithful, but if you think that she would never cheat again if the perfect opportunity arose, like her being 1,000 miles away in a hotel room with another guy, you are fooling yourself.

 

 

but I certainly don't want to, as I love her.

 

ok, I'm sorry, but I have to put it plain to you and it may seem crude, but its the way it is....why would you love a woman that spread her thighs for another man? that is the truth of the matter. why would you settle for such a "woman"?

 

 

I'm not unattractive, and I have always treated her well--some friends say maybe I am too giving. I have decided to forgive her, and I know that trust will take time. Other than sex, our relationship has really been great--better than it has been in years. We talk more, we do more things and we act closer.

 

its called emotional extortion....she cheated, and therefore has you acting the way she wants you to act. She has learned a very valuable lesson...cheat, and you will bend to her will.

 

I'm not saying this to get to you, I just want you to open your eyes. She cheated and it seems like you are fawning all over this undeserving woman.

 

forgive her if you wish, but don't be a fool. don't think she won't cheat again, because if the opportunity to sleep with a man she is attracted to and she doesn't think you'd ever find out....she would.

[Dexter Morgan]

wanna...

 

about the porn use, could it be that you were into porn because she wasn't attracted to you?

 

what is a man suppose to do when a wife won't have sex with them? sit there and take it.

 

at least our OP did porn instead of go out and find a woman in real life.

 

cuz lets face it, just like the cheaters and their apologists will excuse their actions by saying "if they were happy in their marriage they wouldn't have cheated", then the same can be applied to a man watching porn. If his wife paid him attention in the bedroom he wouldn't resort to porn.

[karnak]

Men naturally have a higher sex drive and will need some sort of relief.

 

Do they? I thought it was the same for both genders.

[Darth Vader]

Do they? I thought it was the same for both genders.

 

 

Ladies have maybe 1-10th the testosterone that a man has, so wouldn't that be a factor in reguards to sexual desire? Or does the Estrogen come into play there?

[Untouchable_Fire]

I was not expecting the debate on the significance of porn use on my M and being the cause for the A. I will say this much. My porn use created a hostile environment within my marriage, a place where my W did not feel comfortable. What is worse is that I would lie and invalidate her concerns. When she confided in friends, they also invalidated her emotions, stating that porn use is normal... well maybe it is, but the level to which I was using porn was disturbing to my W, and I, as her H should have supported her.

However. That certainly is not the same, and does not excuse a sexual relationship outside of our M. She should have seperated from me and slept with the OM if that was her goal, not trash our M.

In response to questions, I have given up porn, tobacco and caffiene. I work out more regularly and I am doing this for myself now. I could not quit using porn for her, I tried and failed miserably. I have seen a counselor to help with dealing with depression and the issues of addiction and sexual abuse (from when I was a kid). I am much more confident with myself, and I have some self-esteem again.

We are also seeing a counselor to work on our sex issues as a couple. Our first couples counselor sucked (specialized in drug rehab), but this guy shows promise. I am optimistic, but realize that there is no certainty. I will follow up.

 

I'm sorry but the only time my porn use goes up... is when my woman is failing to be fulfilling.

 

She should have worked her way through fixing it with you.

[karnak]

Ladies have maybe 1-10th the testosterone that a man has, so wouldn't that be a factor in reguards to sexual desire? Or does the Estrogen come into play there?

 

I'm not sure if testosterone or estrogen play a part. I read that as men get older they start losing testosterone... and women increase their testosterone levels.

 

But why do so many women have affairs if they don't feel sexual urges? If they only felt neglected or emotionally abandoned they'd just resort to a gay friend or something.

 

I'm not being ironic here. I really would like to know the differences.

 

Maybe some ladies here could enlighten us, please?