To NC or not to NC - that is the question!

[Yin and Yang]

Hello everyone. Thank you in advance for reading and sharing your wisdom. I have been reading the boards for a long while and I am ready to share my story, as I am in search of some outside opinion.

 

IM VERY SORRY THAT THIS IS SO LONG :-P

 

The history of my relationship is unique and complicated (aren't they all), so I will try to summarize the necessary details. My boyfriend of 3 years broke up with me in April because he walked in to a bar I was at an saw a guy dancing "up on me" behind me. I was intoxicated so I did not realize or tell the guy to move. While our relationship is 95% good (as he put it himself), this was the 5th time over the course of 3 years that we got in to a fight because I acted inappropriately while drunk. I admit that I was drinking way too much and getting out of control, but he also exaggerates things and tends to be a jealous person.

 

I went through the begging and pleading, and he said he just couldn't deal with it anymore, he doesn't trust me and doesn't know what I do when Im out without him. During this time apart, instead of just apologizing and repeating the behavior a few months later, I joined a Moderation Management group and made positive changes and took steps to curb my drinking (it was never habitual, but the few times a month that I would drink I would drink to excess). As close as we were and the deep relationship that we shared, I am hurt that he has just walked away. I feel like he "owes" me and the relationship more than this. If I never acted inappropriately and we essentially never fought but for my behavior related to drinking, I don't see why I dont deserve another chance now that I have taken measures to correct this destructive behavior. He says that this has been "building up" and that the night on the bar was the last straw.

 

Throughout the break up we have remained in contact...at first we would only see each other every two weeks. He said he needs time, he doesn't know if its worth trying it again, he wants to be with me but hes just not sure, hes scared to get hurt and waste time with me and then I'll just do it again...he has no trust, et cetera. Bear in mind he has major trust issues due to his father abandoning him and his ex-fiance leaving him after 7 years for another man (out of the blue). He acknowledges that his trust issues and psychological damage are effecting him and the situation. He says he may go to therapy. He has indicated that he isnt sure whether or not he sees a future with me.

 

In the past few weeks, he has been making more of an effort to see me. We have been going on dates (to the gym, to dinner) 2-3 times a week and communicating daily. This is very difficult for me because while I do see that progress has been made since the break up, it is too slow. I find myself upset after he leaves because 3 hours of his time isnt enough. I want him to stay over -- I want to be in a committed relationship with him and work on our issues. Meanwhile, he has been living the single life..going out with friends, going to Miami...while I have been miserable, pining away, and have been celibate since the break up. If I may say so, I am a young, intelligent, attractive woman and I could have a lot of options, but I just want to be with him.

 

Recently I pathetically said, "Obviously nothing I say, do, or feel will change your mind so Im just going to give up". His response is "What? You act like I dont give a **** about you. Havent I been trying to hang out with you?" In his mind, the fact that he's seeing me a few times a week is supposed to indicate that hes making an effort to work things out. At this point I feel like my needs aren't being met..I am there for him but he isnt here for me the way I want or need him to be. I am scooping up any of the "crumbs" he gives me because Im desperate to be with him...He is a VERY QUIET, noncommunicative person and it is very difficult for me to gauge what he is thinking/feeling. He definitely has closed himself off to me and I see him trying to open back up, but I know it is difficult for him and it takes time.

 

Im seeing him tomorrow and I will probably sit him down and ask him where his mind is at, what he is thinking, if he will commit to working the relationship out. He is not one for ultimatums -- they make him mad/resentful. I am sure he will say, as he has been saying, "I dont know. I need more time" or something along those lines...If, after tomorrow, he does not commit to giving the relationship a real go...DO I INSTITUTE NO CONTACT? I am scared to lose him forever, because I feel like we may be on the road to recovery (however tedious and on his terms entirely)..If there is notable progress and we are becoming closer..I feel like I shouldnt cut him off now..

 

DO I GO NC, or should I be more patient and continue to see him a few times a week (considering I was the one who screwed up, should I still be working on regaining his trust and doing this on his terms)?

 

I am SO SORRY this is so long. I hope someone reads and gives me feedback. ANYONE?

[GrayClouds]

I suggest telling him exactly what you want how hard your willing to work at it.

 

Then asking him if he is wanting to do the same. Anything less then a strong committed yes tell him you respect is position and in doing so you will not contact him again and will continue working on improving yourself and healing from the loss of the realtionship.

 

In return you will ask him not to contact you unless it is to say that he fulling committed to a realtionship and is welling to do all to make it work. While your focus will be on bettering yourself and healing to you will not be waiting for him change his mind. You understand that you made mistakes and need to grow from them, and none of this is an attempt to pressure or punish one or the other but being respectful to each others past and current feelings. Finaly you understood he deserved better behaviors from you but also understand that it would not be healthy or respectful for either one of you to be in anything less then a full committed relationship with both parties working 100% to making it successful.

 

Good Luck

 

One question, why do you think you liked making your boyfriend jealous, specially knowing he was not the most secure? I think that is as big as a issue for you to work on as much as it is alcohol. As much for the next realtionship as this one if there is one to be.

 

I wish you well.

[Div]

Having been the boyfriend who has had to deal with this situation, I'm not surprised.

 

My ex swore herself to me, told me she loved me more than ANYONE else and that I was the one for her. This was after we had some issues with her going out, getting drunk and doing some things that are not acceptable in a relationship.

 

A few months later, she did it again. And then dumped me.

I cannot explain the pain I went through, but I'm sure as hell that this guy has felt it and does NOT want to go through it again. He probably feels like being with you is too much of a risk to his heart. I would not be surprised if does not get back with you, but if you have any chance you need to prove you are loyal to him not just through words but ACTIONS as well.

 

As well as that, you need to understand that it will take a long time to build your trust with this guy again. Way longer than you think. If you want him it will take hard work from both parties.

[Yin and Yang]

Thanks for both of your responses.

 

Grayclouds - by your response it seems that you do think NC should be instituted. However, I do think it is very presumptuous to assume that I like to make him jealous. I am not a game player and I don't like to make people I care about feel bad, or jealous. Sometimes we do things or things happen that don't reflect our values, but the intention wasn't there.

 

Div - I really respect your perspective because it's clear you've been through a similar situation. I think you are exactly right - he feels like it is a risk to his heart and it is easier to just close up and walk away then to be vulnerable to someone who has hurt him before.

 

I am trying to show through words AND actions that I can be respectable, loyal, and trustworthy -- but this is a difficult thing when you're only spending limited time with someone. I am invested in the relationship and willing to go to any measure to make it work -- I feel like he is copping out and taking the "easy" road by walking away.

 

Finally, you say that it will take time and hard work to build trust. Yet you don't comment on the prospect of going NC. From your post, it would seem that your perspective is that I should give him time and keep on going "as is"? Please, if you can, comment more specifically on whether I have the right to ask him for more commitment to making the relationship work and if not, going NC. What am I to make of our spending time together? Should I take what he's offering as is and keep working on it? I am feeling very unfulfilled and don't know how much longer I can do this. At the same time, I don't want to cut him off if there is some progress being made.

 

If anyone else would like to chime in, PLEASE DO!!! Thank you all so much.

[Div]

In my situation, if my ex went NC to me it would mean they were deciding it was time to move on for good. So no, I don't think you should go full NC right now, but perhaps step back a bit and maybe don't contact him for a couple of days so he has some time to think.

 

If he really wants to be with you as much as you want to be with him then he will come back. Then I think you two need to have a serious conversation about the relationship and what you both want out of it.

 

However at the end of the day if you feel like you're getting nowhere and no progress is being made, you will have to make the decision to move on and the best way to do that is NC.

[GrayClouds]

Thanks for both of your responses.

 

Grayclouds - by your response it seems that you do think NC should be instituted. However, I do think it is very presumptuous to assume that I like to make him jealous. I am not a game player and I don't like to make people I care about feel bad, or jealous.

VS

boyfriend of 3 years broke up with me in April because he walked in to a bar I was at an saw a guy dancing "up on me" behind me. I was intoxicated so I did not realize or tell the guy to move. While our relationship is 95% good (as he put it himself), this was the 5th time over the course of 3 years

And

he also exaggerates things and tends to be a jealous person.

I did not presume anything I just read what you said. For someone to do something and find out it upset your partner, in a healthy relationship a person would modify the behavior and try hard not to do it again. Specially if you new the other person was extra sensitive about such behavior.

 

Though in your own words it happen 5 times, which is no longer a mistake but a choice, one knowing it was hurtful and in this case know it would cause him to be jealous. One would not make this choice repetitively if they was not getting something out of it.

 

5 times in three years is about once every 6 months. It may not sound like much to you but someone hurting most people with that frequency, that would a deal breaker.

 

Sometimes we do things or things happen that don't reflect our values, but the intention wasn't there.

 

But your behaviors do reflect values, and you behave in a manner that you knew was hurtful. If it was meant to be hurtful to him, what was the intention? Just to have fun, to feel sexy, to be silly, feel pretty..., what ever the intent was, at those time you valued those things more then you valued you boyfriend feelings. Seeing that, understand that and taking ownership says you are responsible then and if it ever happen again. To have the courage to do see that, I suspect it would lessen the chance of it happen again and maybe even increase the chance of your boyfriend believing you.

Edited July 18, 2010 by GrayClouds

[Yin and Yang]

Gray - I am not excusing my behavior but the crux behind what I was doing was due to the fact that I was wasted. Poor excuse, but people act out of character when intoxicated. We could go Freudian and say I subconsciously was doing it on purpose, but at this point it's moot. Thank you for your advice though!

 

We hung out on Saturday, had a good time. He didn't contact me all Sunday until 3:19am when he texted me "night". That was kind of the last straw. I sent him this e-mail today:

 

I'm writing this in an e-mail because I think I'll be able to get my points across more clearly. For the past three years I have been in love with you and enjoyed having you in my life. You are beyond special to me and as you know I am willing to do anything to repair the damage that has been done and to make our relationship work, but it takes two people to make a relationship work. I have been so happy to spend more time with you as we have over the past few weeks, but at the same time it is emotionally painful and heart-wrenching to be in this state of limbo. I don't know how you feel about me or where you see this relationship going. I have tried to give you time and space to think about if you would like to reconcile. You won't or can't share your feelings with me. During this time I have done a lot of work on myself and made changes in my life in order to be a better person and a better girlfriend. There are so many things I wish I could take back but I can't, I can only try to make a better future.

 

At this point, It is clear that I am not a priority in your life. It is too painful to see you the way I have been seeing you without any indication that we are moving in the direction toward working things out. If you don't have the desire to commit to being together and working things out, then I think it is in my best interest if we don't talk or see each other for a while. I'm afraid that it's the only way that I can heal and move on. Of course this is not what my heart wants, but my mind is telling me that it is the only way to stop hurting and finally accept that our relationship is over. I love you so much, but I have to love myself too. Maybe this time apart will help you really figure out whether or not you want me in your life..

 

 

WHAT do you guys think? Was this the right move? :-(

[GrayClouds]

WHAT do you guys think? Was this the right move? :-(

If your objective was to once again show him that you will always put yourself first in the relationship and he is secondary to that, then job well done. If your objective was to show that you have grown as a person, seen where you been hurtful and selfish, then not so successful.

 

If your read it you talk about your feelings, how hard this is for you, how much you are going through, how mistakes were made but should be forgotten, you reprimand him for how he is behaving and simply you do not even have the courage to face this difficult discussion in person. It refects a person who is only going to put their needs and wants ahead of the other.

 

Gray - I am not excusing my behavior but the crux behind what I was doing was due to the fact that I was wasted. Poor excuse, but people act out of character when intoxicated.

 

Sorry but don't you see that what you have illustrated to your boyfriend this behavior is not out of character. You shown repetitively it is your character, even thought you do not want to admit it. You are the type of person to get wasted and do inappropriate things, blame it on being intoxicated, and expect people to be forgive you.

 

It was not simply poor behavior, it is on attitude of not willing to accept that truth that damaged your relationship. If you was willing to accept it you where showing poor character, you would have never repeated the behavior.

 

It is a selfish mindset that makes successful relationship very difficult to achieve. This break-up is offering you a real opportunity to grow by taking a look at the really hard questions of why this happened. In your case, is was not alcohol. You doing yourself a grave disservice by blaming it on that. In all likelihood,this relationship is done, but you have a opportunity to make the next one more successful, you deserve that. Looking long and hard at the the real issue gives you that opportunity.

 

It is not about making you feel bad, it about wanting you not to miss this important lesson to learn, a real opportunity to become a better you. I hope you take it. Good luck.

[Yin and Yang]

Gray -

 

You advised me to go no contact and then you say that what I was said was selfish? I thought the point of going NC was to help the dumpee heal...I admit I feel like maybe the letter was a mistake, but only because I panic that I'll lose him. I've already said to him, many times, that I was willing to do anything to make the relationship work and I tried to atone for my behavior and made positive change. All I asked from him was a chance to make it work. Yes, we made progress because he started seeing me more often, but we weren't making any emotional progress. Did I do the wrong thing? Do I not have the right to make demands because I was the one who screwed up? I thought NC was about the dumpee getting "better"..

[GrayClouds]

Gray -

 

You advised me to go no contact and then you say that what I was said was selfish? I thought the point of going NC was to help the dumpee heal...I admit I feel like maybe the letter was a mistake, but only because I panic that I'll lose him. I've already said to him, many times, that I was willing to do anything to make the relationship work and I tried to atone for my behavior and made positive change. All I asked from him was a chance to make it work. Yes, we made progress because he started seeing me more often, but we weren't making any emotional progress. Did I do the wrong thing? Do I not have the right to make demands because I was the one who screwed up? I thought NC was about the dumpee getting "better"..

 

First off , I understand you are hurting and how difficult that is. Secondly, I am sure you do care for this person very much. Finally, I do believe you want to grow as a person. It is those reason, I have challenge you so strongly. As hard and painful this experience it is, it is trying to tell you show you something important.

 

It does seem like you have started this process, now you have to dig a bit deeper. The letter would have been much better if you did it in person, and instead of making demands, it would have been much more loving to say "I understand I fail to behave in a way that respected you and my love for you. I understand you need time. I do to, I need time to understand why I would choose to hurt someone I care for so deeply, I need time to make sure I can guarantee I will never do it again. And while we may never get back what we had, I am determine to not let my poor choices be in vain. You deserve better, and I want better for myself. I need to focus on myself to do this work and for that reason I will not contact you, I hope it give you space to heal too. I wish you well."

 

Your letter says your angry that your not getting what you want, it puts your feelings once again before his. It a pattern you have repeated. Understanding this pattern and developing healthier patterns is what "getting better" means in this case. That is what NC is for, to put the focus on you to understand your mistake in a relationship, understand why you made those mistake and then find ways to make sure you do not repeat them.

 

You deserve better.

Edited July 20, 2010 by GrayClouds

[Yin and Yang]

Grayclouds -

 

I just wrote a really long response and hit the back button on my browser so needless to say I'm peeved!!! I wanted to thank you for your advice however brutally honest it may be.

 

I have said all those things you suggested in the past, so that is why I did not say them in this letter. I am unsure whether I was wrong and that I shouldn't be making demands of him because I was the one who screwed up, but over these past four months I have tried to make changes, atone for my sins and make amends. While he has been able to balance coming to see me a few times a week and his new single life, I spend the entire week waiting for the few times when we see each other. I am playing second fiddle. Needless to say, it isn't healthy.

 

As per advice on LS, I thought that when the dumper is seeing you/hanging out with you but not making any commitments or trying to work on the relationship, then it was them taking advantage and assuaging their guilt and that's why the dumpee should go no contact. I mean the truth is I haven't even been able to really accept that the relationship is over, and by him throwing me crumbs, it made it that much more difficult.

 

I am torn between having guilt and shame over my behavior and hating myself for ruining such a good relationship, but I also feel like after everything we've been through, as close as we are, and after everything I've done for him and put in to the relationship, I deserve another chance. So yes, there is sadness and anger. There is also denial and disbelief.

 

At this point, I don't know what I can do. Should I have continued seeing him and let him take his time? I don't even know if there is a way I can undo this letter, or even if I should. Needless to say, he hasn't responded.

 

 

Thank you again.

 

First off , I understand you are hurting and how difficult that is. Secondly, I am sure you do care for this person very much. Finally, I do believe you want to grow as a person. It is those reason, I have challenge you so strongly. As hard and painful this experience it is, it is trying to tell you show you something important.

 

It does seem like you have started this process, now you have to dig a bit deeper. The letter would have been much better if you did it in person, and instead of making demands, it would have been much more loving to say "I understand I fail to behave in a way that respected you and my love for you. I understand you need time. I do to, I need time to understand why I would choose to hurt someone I care for so deeply, I need time to make sure I can guarantee I will never do it again. And while we may never get back what we had, I am determine to not let my poor choices be in vain. You deserve better, and I want better for myself. I need to focus on myself to do this work and for that reason I will not contact you, I hope it give you space to heal too. I wish you well."

 

Your letter says your angry that your not getting what you want, it puts your feelings once again before his. It a pattern you have repeated. Understanding this pattern and developing healthier patterns is what "getting better" means in this case. That is what NC is for, to put the focus on you to understand your mistake in a relationship, understand why you made those mistake and then find ways to make sure you do not repeat them.

 

You deserve better.

[GrayClouds]

I am true please you see my advice for what it is, a sincere interest towards helping. Many people would not have the courage you shown to hang in there for some of the harder questions. Just has letting go of the denial and disbelief. That shows charater you can be proud of.

 

Understand your letter was a mix of sadness, desperation, anger and a desire to be forgiven. It's intent was good. As hard as this break-up is, specially when we look into ourselves and see where we need to be better people, it is giving you not what you want but something life knows you need. You want him back, but you need to understand, and I believe you are, where you have to improve a bit more. This guy may have been good for you, but there is someone out their even better. Working at the things I pointed out, doing the work you already have done will help you make sure you do not repeat those mistakes when, in time, you find Mr.Better. A little more hard work and a lot more healing that will happen.

 

Your Ex came into your life for a reason, to help you learn these lessons. After you learn them, the next guy you attract will not be the jealous type, for you will be the more confident type. He will not be the exaggeration type for you will be the more sensitive type. You will attract a higher quality type for your will be a higher quality type.

 

It is time to give up the quilt and shame, we all learn we are not perfect. Put those emotion to continue improve yourself and making those bad experiences work to better you. Likely you will not be able to prove it to this guy when you get there but you can prove it to yourself.

 

He knows you what you want, at this point he simplify unable to give you what you that. If you have said everything before, your right there is little you can do now except focus on yourself. Here is the hard part go NC and stay NC. Unless he is working as hard as you on his issues and willing to work with just as much effort on the relationship, reconciliation will not work. That is not something you can ask of him, only something he an choose for himself is eagerly willing to give you. If is was/is it would not be settle, he would make it action obvious. Any less then obvious will be indecision, and you DO deserve more then that.

 

If you have not read the following it will be helpful:

So you want a second chance?

 

Reading fellow threads in "Coping" will help to.

 

I am really sorry for your loss and hurt. This is why they call it growing pains. But, as someone smart then me has said before, look forward to being taller.

 

 

.

Grayclouds -

 

I just wrote a really long response and hit the back button on my browser so needless to say I'm peeved!!! I wanted to thank you for your advice however brutally honest it may be.

 

I have said all those things you suggested in the past, so that is why I did not say them in this letter. I am unsure whether I was wrong and that I shouldn't be making demands of him because I was the one who screwed up, but over these past four months I have tried to make changes, atone for my sins and make amends. While he has been able to balance coming to see me a few times a week and his new single life, I spend the entire week waiting for the few times when we see each other. I am playing second fiddle. Needless to say, it isn't healthy.

 

As per advice on LS, I thought that when the dumper is seeing you/hanging out with you but not making any commitments or trying to work on the relationship, then it was them taking advantage and assuaging their guilt and that's why the dumpee should go no contact. I mean the truth is I haven't even been able to really accept that the relationship is over, and by him throwing me crumbs, it made it that much more difficult.

 

I am torn between having guilt and shame over my behavior and hating myself for ruining such a good relationship, but I also feel like after everything we've been through, as close as we are, and after everything I've done for him and put in to the relationship, I deserve another chance. So yes, there is sadness and anger. There is also denial and disbelief.

 

At this point, I don't know what I can do. Should I have continued seeing him and let him take his time? I don't even know if there is a way I can undo this letter, or even if I should. Needless to say, he hasn't responded.

 

 

 

 

Thank you again.

Edited July 20, 2010 by GrayClouds