EA reignited after 3 years of NC

July 16, 2010

I know I am opening myself up to all opinions. I am prepared. But I am truly at a crossroads. I don't know how to summarize everything, but I will try, in bullet form.

-been with H for 19 yrs

-young kids

-ongoing marital problems (even pre-marriage), but we stay together

-H had brief EA 4 yrs ago, although he does not recognize it as such

-I had E/PA with MM for 2 years, started nearly 5 years ago. therefore his EA and my E/PA overlapped, although the duration of his EA was markedly shorter than mine

-I fell in love with this man, contemplated leaving my H for this man, but for the sake of the children, wanted to see if I could make it work with H.

-full disclosure to H 3 yrs ago -H decided he would forgive me and we would remain together - established NC with MM

-I requested MC, he did not want (very private, does not want to disclose personal problems, even if to a licensed therapist); so we tried open communication and transparency.

-I tried very hard to rebuild and regain his trust by being honest and transparent from that day forward- but it seems he did not want to try as much, or perhaps felt I needed to work harder in repairs. I understand he was hurt, and angry. I understood why I needed to be the one to make more effort in rebuilding, but it truly seemed he didn't want to try with his part in making me understand how to make it better. No communication on his part on how he felt about the issue, even if I wanted to discuss it more openly. But I wanted to respect how he wanted to discuss our marriage. However, I didn't feel we were getting anywhere. I requested MC again - he does not want.

-I do love him - he is a good man, and a good father, but he seems unable to get outside of his comfort zone to help move our relationship to the next level.

-I left home once with kids - tired of pretending all was ok, when it was not.

-when I returned, I suggested maybe we were not right for each other, but he wanted to try and make it work.... but I feel like I have tried, but he doesn't

-he is not mean to me, but he is not gentle and kind. I have tried to be all he wants, but with no acknowledgment or verbal/indicated appreciation of my efforts, it has become very difficult for me to continue in my efforts to pay for everything I have done.

-ironically he wants another child - I cannot even begin to contemplate the rationale of this, as how can we have another baby when we still haven't fixed our marriage?

-NC was broken with xMM - and we are back in contact re-engaged in a very intense EA.

-I am NOT making excuses - but I am tired of feeling unloved and unappreciated after putting myself out there openly and honestly with H post-D-day, to be met with no effort to truly reconcile and repair our relationship.

-I KNOW I should just sh*t or get off the pot

-but breaking up my family home, shattering the innocence of the kids... it is what keeps me here, primarily

-If I could choose a better life with H (and I did), I would... but I don't know how else to keep trying without MC, without apparent willingness on his part. I KNOW he loves me, he just has a hard time showing it, and sharing it. How do I reach out to a man like this?

-I KNOW the EA is a crappy choice, but I am shriveling up inside, and I am very selfishly feeling the need for emotional fulfillment.

-on a side note, while my H and I are not emotionally intimate, we still have good sex, although it has become difficult for me to desire him when I feel he doesn't value emotional intimacy.

If you have questions, please ask, I am just trying to give a brief summary. THere is obviously more in details, but hard to put in words without a comment/question to provoke deeper thought.

Ok, I will put on my flame-retardant suit.

July 16, 2010

I am posting this before I leave town for the weekend with my sister to stay in her vacation home for 2 nights. I needed a "Break" to sort my thoughts, she is coming with me with her newborn.

So if you reply, and I have not responded, it is because I am out of town without internet or Wi-Fi at certain times.... but I will reply as I am able... and definitely by Sunday night.

Just didn't want anyone to think I am a "troll" -posting and then leaving with nary a wave a goodbye.

I truly would appreciate your comments/feedback/questions/suggestions. I realize that I may gain more awareness on my issues through thought provocation.

thank you.

July 16, 2010

I am posting this before I leave town for the weekend with my sister to stay in her vacation home for 2 nights. I needed a "Break" to sort my thoughts, she is coming with me with her newborn.
So if you reply, and I have not responded, it is because I am out of town without internet or Wi-Fi at certain times.... but I will reply as I am able... and definitely by Sunday night.
Just didn't want anyone to think I am a "troll" -posting and then leaving with nary a wave a goodbye.
I truly would appreciate your comments/feedback/questions/suggestions. I realize that I may gain more awareness on my issues through thought provocation.
thank you.

Your not going to like this advice... but you need to get away from both men.

Your husband need to wake the heck up and start doing therapy.... he cant' sit in his shell all turtled up forever. He needs to choose and choose now... either he puts the effort in or you leave.

The OM is bloody married w/kids. That guy is clearly an @$$clown... you want to be with that kind of guy? Your standards must be very low.

So... cut the MM out. No contact at all. Then push your husband as hard as you can... if he can't/won't put in the effort... end the marriage.

July 16, 2010

Let me understand this in bullet form.

-You mentioned your husbands EA first. But you actually cheated on him b4 he did, and yours was physical.

-Could he have withdrawn emotionally back then and just never got back to the pre A level?

- Since you have decided to re-enter the affair (EA or PA doesn't matter. Since you have had PA before, it is only a matter of time till you will again), why would you want to go through the work of reconciling with your H again?

-You are not getting your emotional needs met by your husband, and your husband has already been hurt by you. You may as well forget what anybody else wants (Including your kids and the MM kids, if he has any) and just do what feels good. Your husbands pain and the MMs wife pain are inevitable.

-You are already justifying breaking NC. Just accept the pain you are causing everyone and eventually your heart will callous up enough to deal with it.

-Your husband will get over it eventually.

-Your kids will not be so lucky. They will be more likely to have sex outside of marriage (Your example), and have children outside of marriage. I mean what does marriage mean anyways (again, your example). They will be more likely to abuse alcohol and drugs (to cover the pain). They will be more likely to drop out of school. They will feel what's the point? You're more interested in the MM you left their father for. Your children will lose their childhood innocence, and quickly take on the worries of adulthood (your job security, dads emotional health, his welfare, is there anything left they can depend on?), because the secure world of the parents they revolved around will be gone. Your relationship with them will suffer and change forever. There is a very good chance they will HATE the MM you left their father for.

How do I know about the effects on your children? Because my mom did the same thing to my father 45 years ago...... I lived it. From that moment on, she forever changed in my sight. I am 51 today.

Oh and in closing. My mother currently lives in a one bedroom apartment. The love of her life fathered my little half sister (cheated on her while she was pregnant). Screwed around on her the whole time they were married. Then divorced her for a younger woman.

The consequence of your actions will be paid for on the backs of your children. Sad, because they're innocent.

July 16, 2010

Your not going to like this advice... but you need to get away from both men.

Your husband need to wake the heck up and start doing therapy.... he cant' sit in his shell all turtled up forever. He needs to choose and choose now... either he puts the effort in or you leave.

The OM is bloody married w/kids. That guy is clearly an @$$clown... you want to be with that kind of guy? Your standards must be very low.

So... cut the MM out. No contact at all. Then push your husband as hard as you can... if he can't/won't put in the effort... end the marriage.

thank you...

Question then... how hard to I push. Is it an ultimatum? "do this or it's over"?

Here is the thing... outwardly, we are the "model" couple... everyone things all is happy go lucky.

I do not want to paint a completely black picture on H... he is a fun guy... we have great fun moments, particularly as a family. easy going, laughs a lot, cracks a joke. a real people person... but yes get to the crux, and he is a little emotionally repressed or something - very hard for him to display emotions, discuss, dig deeper.

I have suggested MC and IC for him (I have already gone thru IC previously). He goes through bouts of half-hearted effort, and then it settles into a humdrum routine of everyday life - very easy to do when busy with work and kids... I push for more... but get tired of pushing (like right now).

I WANT him to try. What can I say to motivate a man to try? What words would an emotionally repressed man need to hear in order to press him into action? I really need to know this.

I hear your advice on MM... I would say same thing to another person as you say to me. BUt damn, it is so hard to take my own advice. He's actually a nice guy, and with exception of us being tumultuously involved, I would say he's great.... about as great as me. Which obviously isn't that great. He has his own marital issues. yup, we're both weak and foolish.

Sometimes I wonder how I let my life become this way.

July 16, 2010

thank you...

Question then... how hard to I push. Is it an ultimatum? "do this or it's over"?

Here is the thing... outwardly, we are the "model" couple... everyone things all is happy go lucky.

I do not want to paint a completely black picture on H... he is a fun guy... we have great fun moments, particularly as a family. easy going, laughs a lot, cracks a joke. a real people person... but yes get to the crux, and he is a little emotionally repressed or something - very hard for him to display emotions, discuss, dig deeper.

I have suggested MC and IC for him (I have already gone thru IC previously). He goes through bouts of half-hearted effort, and then it settles into a humdrum routine of everyday life - very easy to do when busy with work and kids... I push for more... but get tired of pushing (like right now).

I WANT him to try. What can I say to motivate a man to try? What words would an emotionally repressed man need to hear in order to press him into action? I really need to know this.

I hear your advice on MM... I would say same thing to another person as you say to me. BUt damn, it is so hard to take my own advice. He's actually a nice guy, and with exception of us being tumultuously involved, I would say he's great.... about as great as me. Which obviously isn't that great. He has his own marital issues. yup, we're both weak and foolish.

Sometimes I wonder how I let my life become this way.

well, i have my own issues i am dealing with, but yours are definitely much more complicated.

i would say that your husband really does need to consent to working much harder on the relationship. that much is clear. if he does not, then i would suggest that you all have some sort of amicable under-the-same roof separation since divorce at this point is unsavory to you, given the family dynamics it would disrupt.

i can't condone the EA/PA, of course. it's pretty sure to end disastrously for everyone involved.

i hope something can work out.

July 16, 2010

lotsofsunsets, I really do appreciate your POV and I am really sorry about your pain of the past and its continuing effects.

I will address some things you have said, and again, I am only trying to work towards resolving this, and need to go through the process of painful self-examination. Please do not take anything I say to mean I am a callous and unfeeling person who cannot empathize.

You have shared some very significant thoughts, which will give me much thought.

Let me understand this in bullet form.

-You mentioned your husbands EA first. But you actually cheated on him b4 he did, and yours was physical.

-Could he have withdrawn emotionally back then and just never got back to the pre A level?

H has always been emotionally withdrawn, even whilst dating. I had always said that it was ok, that while I felt I needed more, I could accept this because he was a good guy, great family etc., and I accepted he couldn't show love maybe in the exact language I needed.. .but I understood, or tried to understand his language. I am just trying to understand it further.

I would say that our relationship changed drastically post-marriage. I in many ways have felt that I fit a "role" in his life - wife and mother, and have oft-times felt I could be a faceless person filling that role. I have expressed this many times to him. I cook, clean, rub his back, have sex, compliment him, give advice on work, etc... and as long as he gets his needs met that way, he is happy.. but it is almost as though he forgot I am a person underneath that "role-filler".

- Since you have decided to re-enter the affair (EA or PA doesn't matter. Since you have had PA before, it is only a matter of time till you will again), why would you want to go through the work of reconciling with your H again?

Because, I want to. Yes, I should cut off the A... but am starving for love and affection and feelings of being a real person. I am being selfish. I won't deny that.

But that doesn't mean that underneath it all, I don't want to make my marriage one that I can derive great satisfaction from.

-You are not getting your emotional needs met by your husband, and your husband has already been hurt by you. You may as well forget what anybody else wants (Including your kids and the MM kids, if he has any) and just do what feels good. Your husbands pain and the MMs wife pain are inevitable.

We have both been hurt in our marriage. So should I throw in the towel? I know the affair is gratuitous... that doesn't mean I think it's right. If I did, I wouldn't be here asking for advice.

-You are already justifying breaking NC. Just accept the pain you are causing everyone and eventually your heart will callous up enough to deal with it.

-Your husband will get over it eventually.

-Your kids will not be so lucky. They will be more likely to have sex outside of marriage (Your example), and have children outside of marriage. I mean what does marriage mean anyways (again, your example). They will be more likely to abuse alcohol and drugs (to cover the pain). They will be more likely to drop out of school. They will feel what's the point? You're more interested in the MM you left their father for. Your children will lose their childhood innocence, and quickly take on the worries of adulthood (your job security, dads emotional health, his welfare, is there anything left they can depend on?), because the secure world of the parents they revolved around will be gone. Your relationship with them will suffer and change forever. There is a very good chance they will HATE the MM you left their father for.

How do I know about the effects on your children? Because my mom did the same thing to my father 45 years ago...... I lived it. From that moment on, she forever changed in my sight. I am 51 today.

Oh and in closing. My mother currently lives in a one bedroom apartment. The love of her life fathered my little half sister (cheated on her while she was pregnant). Screwed around on her the whole time they were married. Then divorced her for a younger woman.

The consequence of your actions will be paid for on the backs of your children. Sad, because they're innocent.

Your comments on the effects on children are poignantly felt. I am not that disillusioned to think that there could be a happily ever after in this... As it is, the kids are none the wiser in the state of their parents' relationship. I have mentioned a very pretty picture painted - all for sake of the kids.

I will consider your posting very carefully. Thank you for your input.

July 16, 2010

On the MM issue. You also need to realize that if he will cheat with you, he will cheat on you.

July 16, 2010

RG, I do agree that H needs to "step it up" in repairing the relationship. I realize at this point I have not helped by reinvolving myself with MM.

If I analyze further, at times I think I am emotionally drained in my M, I do not feel strong enough to carry us. I have told H that I don't mind if we have an 80/20 relationship most of the time (I emotionally carry us 80%, he 20%) - but there will be times that I cannot give 80%. Maybe only 60% or even 20%, and that my expectation is that he come through for me at these times.

I do not know if we are just not compatible emotionally, but there was a time before our marriage that I felt quite connected with him. It really seemed like a switch was flipped shortly after we married, and I suddenly was that "check mark" on his list of things he wanted to accomplish in life.

I am not saying he is unfeeling and doesn't care... I just need for him to express it.

I need the men to tell me how to speak to him in a way that he will understand.

July 16, 2010

On the MM issue. You also need to realize that if he will cheat with you, he will cheat on you.

I realize this... I am not in the EA thinking I will be married to him someday. Those thoughts are long past. It really is selfishly gratuitous. Guess that says little of my character.

wow, I really do feel even more crappy now.

I knew looking at myself under the microscope would suck.

Please keep it coming. I need to hear everything.

July 16, 2010

He's actually a nice guy

Who is married and cheats with a married woman. Do you really want to sink so low as to pick a guy who cheats? What happens when YOU are the old news in his life and he looks - yet again - for more excitement and cheats on YOU?

July 16, 2010

RG, I do agree that H needs to "step it up" in repairing the relationship. I realize at this point I have not helped by reinvolving myself with MM.

If I analyze further, at times I think I am emotionally drained in my M, I do not feel strong enough to carry us. I have told H that I don't mind if we have an 80/20 relationship most of the time (I emotionally carry us 80%, he 20%) - but there will be times that I cannot give 80%. Maybe only 60% or even 20%, and that my expectation is that he come through for me at these times.

I do not know if we are just not compatible emotionally, but there was a time before our marriage that I felt quite connected with him. It really seemed like a switch was flipped shortly after we married, and I suddenly was that "check mark" on his list of things he wanted to accomplish in life.

I am not saying he is unfeeling and doesn't care... I just need for him to express it.

I need the men to tell me how to speak to him in a way that he will understand.

Um, 80/20 is simply NOT acceptable. You have sacrificed WAY TOO MUCH for him! WTF?

You say you do all the cooking, cleaning, etc. as well as the bulk of the emotional support.

Um, that's not a marriage. That's not an equal partnership.

He clearly has deep-seated issues and you and he both have allowed this to prohibit you from having a fully functional relationship.

I am sorry this has happened to you... I really am. And yet... you need to be assertive and change things. If he does not come around and make a FAR MORE CONCERTED EFFORT, there is no hope for your relationship. You will continue to cheat to get your needs met, and that's no way to live.

It would be better if you and he amicably parted so you could find a more fulfilling relationship. THe kids would respect that. They might not respect the affair, so you don't have to expose them to that. But being upfront with them about your unhappy marriage would actually be healthy for them. I went through that with my own parents... I am glad they are divorced.

July 16, 2010

Who is married and cheats with a married woman. Do you really want to sink so low as to pick a guy who cheats? What happens when YOU are the old news in his life and he looks - yet again - for more excitement and cheats on YOU?

just addressed this - not looking to leave H for him.

But you bring up a more relevant point - "do you really want to sink so low...?" It hit me just reading those words. I HAVE sunken that low, and I AM that person.

I cannot flame this MM because my failings are equal in size. That's like the pot calling the kettle black.

You just gave me more food for thought.

July 16, 2010

Your comments on the effects on children are poignantly felt. I am not that disillusioned to think that there could be a happily ever after in this... As it is, the kids are none the wiser in the state of their parents' relationship. I have mentioned a very pretty picture painted - all for sake of the kids.

I will consider your posting very carefully. Thank you for your input.

When I was 5 and my brother was 6, we would wake up and run to my mom's room, drop to the floor, so we could watch the big ugly feet running to the closet from my mom's bed. We thought it was great fun. After all we were none the wiser. It stopped being fun when she sat us down with the POSOM to tell us that she was divorcing our father and marrying him. I cried and cried and hugged my mom. My brother withdrew and became quite unemotional. He is to this day with his own kids and wife. It was weird. Its like he and I became polar opposites emotionally on that day.

July 16, 2010

Who is married and cheats with a married woman. Do you really want to sink so low as to pick a guy who cheats? What happens when YOU are the old news in his life and he looks - yet again - for more excitement and cheats on YOU?

I don't condone cheating. I hate it.

But humans are fallible.

Great people can cheat.

Awful people may never cheat.

Just sayin'.

July 16, 2010

When I was 5 and my brother was 6, we would wake up and run to my mom's room, drop to the floor, so we could watch the big ugly feet running to the closet from my mom's bed. We thought it was great fun. After all we were none the wiser. It stopped being fun when she sat us down with the POSOM to tell us that she was divorcing our father and marrying him. I cried and cried and hugged my mom. My brother withdrew and became quite unemotional. He is to this day with his own kids and wife. It was weird. Its like he and I became polar opposites emotionally on that day.

good golly, I have never allowed this man into my home and wouldn't even think about having sexual relations while the kids are present. Holy crap. I am sorry about that.

Maybe I am naive in thinking the kids are "none the wiser" - but I really think they are insulated from our troubles. If anything, the one area we make great efforts in is the children, so on that level we agree.

But yes, I would be stupid to think they might not one day figure out things aren't all roses.

I am really appreciating all this feedback and insight.

I have much reflection to do.

July 16, 2010

thank you...
Question then... how hard to I push. Is it an ultimatum? "do this or it's over"?
Here is the thing... outwardly, we are the "model" couple... everyone things all is happy go lucky.
I do not want to paint a completely black picture on H... he is a fun guy... we have great fun moments, particularly as a family. easy going, laughs a lot, cracks a joke. a real people person... but yes get to the crux, and he is a little emotionally repressed or something - very hard for him to display emotions, discuss, dig deeper.
I have suggested MC and IC for him (I have already gone thru IC previously). He goes through bouts of half-hearted effort, and then it settles into a humdrum routine of everyday life - very easy to do when busy with work and kids... I push for more... but get tired of pushing (like right now).
I WANT him to try. What can I say to motivate a man to try? What words would an emotionally repressed man need to hear in order to press him into action? I really need to know this.

There may not be anything that can motivate him...

I understand that your marriage isn't all doom and gloom, otherwise you would not be conflicted... but that's what makes the cheating all that much worse.

You have to be willing to leave him. Give him an ultimatum. It sounds harsh and terrible, but it's a 1,000,000 times better than explaining to your kids 10 years down the road why you cheated on their Dad throughout their childhood. You realize that they will be patterning their future relationships after this.

I hear your advice on MM... I would say same thing to another person as you say to me. BUt damn, it is so hard to take my own advice. He's actually a nice guy, and with exception of us being tumultuously involved, I would say he's great.... about as great as me. Which obviously isn't that great. He has his own marital issues. yup, we're both weak and foolish.
Sometimes I wonder how I let my life become this way.

I think I'm qualified to make this statement as I was once a MM... The guy isn't worth your time.

The feelings can be really intense... but on some level you just can't respect a woman your messing around with like that. I don't think any married guy can unless he is separated and emotionally moved on.

July 16, 2010

Um, 80/20 is simply NOT acceptable. You have sacrificed WAY TOO MUCH for him! WTF?

You say you do all the cooking, cleaning, etc. as well as the bulk of the emotional support.

Um, that's not a marriage. That's not an equal partnership.

He clearly has deep-seated issues and you and he both have allowed this to prohibit you from having a fully functional relationship.

I am sorry this has happened to you... I really am. And yet... you need to be assertive and change things. If he does not come around and make a FAR MORE CONCERTED EFFORT, there is no hope for your relationship. You will continue to cheat to get your needs met, and that's no way to live.

It would be better if you and he amicably parted so you could find a more fulfilling relationship. THe kids would respect that. They might not respect the affair, so you don't have to expose them to that. But being upfront with them about your unhappy marriage would actually be healthy for them. I went through that with my own parents... I am glad they are divorced.

RG... I think I'm torn between staying to shelter the pain from the kids, and "being self-sacrificing" versus having to blow out the floor from under them and live with that, yet be emotionally freed.

What is the lesser of two evils, so to speak.

I am so f*cked up.

July 16, 2010

Its a little different when you look at it from a kids perspective. Just remember, that even if they don't know it (like we didn't), their world is still being disrupted by what the other man is doing to their mother.

July 16, 2010

RG... I think I'm torn between staying to shelter the pain from the kids, and "being self-sacrificing" versus having to blow out the floor from under them and live with that, yet be emotionally freed.
What is the lesser of two evils, so to speak.
I am so f*cked up.

Short term vs. Long term.

As long as you don't move in with some abusive ahole... or chase after this MM forever.... Your kids will survive a divorce. Lord knows every other kid is going through the same thing.

I think your other option is the one that will create lasting emotional damage.

July 16, 2010

No matter how bad your marriage, crappy your life or unfulfilled you are....you do not have the right to be a detriment to his's wife's marriage. What did she do to you? What did his family do to you? It isn't only about you and your family when you involve yourself with a married person. There are ties there that go further than just him. What hurts his wife hurts his family and you are an accessory to inflicting that pain. That's wrong.

July 16, 2010

Check the statistics untouchable. You need to read what tattoo wrote about her husband. He does in no way seem to be as damaging to the children as divorce would be. Because "every other kid is going thru it" only has the effect of DDD (Defining Deviancy Down).

July 16, 2010

Check the statistics untouchable. You need to read what tattoo wrote about her husband. He does in no way seem to be as damaging to the children as divorce would be. Because "every other kid is going thru it" only has the effect of DDD (Defining Deviancy Down).

I'm sorry, but having parents that fight and cheat on each other is way worse for kids than divorce in the long term. Unless the divorce is super nasty and the parents use the kids to fight... at which point the marriage was probably just as bad.

July 16, 2010

Its a little different when you look at it from a kids perspective. Just remember, that even if they don't know it (like we didn't), their world is still being disrupted by what the other man is doing to their mother.

thank you for sharing your perspective lostsunsets... I will take the time this weekend for some deep introspection. you are right, my kids are feeling some effect, as inauspicious as it seems.

July 16, 2010

Short term vs. Long term.

As long as you don't move in with some abusive ahole... or chase after this MM forever.... Your kids will survive a divorce. Lord knows every other kid is going through the same thing.

I think your other option is the one that will create lasting emotional damage.

a difficult decision to ponder. I am taking all you have said to heart, Untouchable Fire.

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