pureinheart Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 xMM and I are in contact by phone. An unfortunate telephone incident (phone in bag not on keylock) led to initial tentative texting. Has been a few days. I'm not sure what I think or what I'm doing but I'm watching carefully because this is different, knowing what I know now... It's all different (and yet SO MUCH THE SAME!!!). I've been through it all at counselling and some ideas and theories are forming but for now I'm so immensely busy with work and sorting the house for a party next weekend that I'm not really planning to DO anything. Just spectating for now, it feels. I strongly suspect that NC (because it never really 'ended') wasn't for me and didn't suit my nature.. This is most likely my ending. But I'm quick enough to run to you guys for much-needed support and encouragement that it seemed wrong not to 'fess up when I mess up. Please always post, no matter what:). I have heard through the grapevine that some people are afraid to post, all varying reasons, such as going NC and then resuming contact etc., they (and I have too) felt bad because many people took a lot of time to help and they felt like they let them down. Personally, I think it was my own perception (which was wrong)...I have never read anyone get mad or throw it in the posters face ever, however I have seen disappoinment in the same post as continued support:). I have found that if a person is sincere, they usually get a lot of support...eat the chicken and spit out the bones.
GreenEyedLady Posted July 20, 2010 Posted July 20, 2010 Thank you! MM and I have spoken for hours and hours and hours since being back in touch. I feel better for having contact. I think MOTF mentioned the whole 'not being permitted' aspect of NC and it genuinely, I think, made the whole situation bigger for me. I no longer feel the intense yearning, or the loss. However, maybe I've just got that to come. Again. There's a timer ticking in my head, he has limited time, of that I'm sure. Just wish I knew how long we have before it pings. Because when it does, there'll be no going back, for me. I will most likely still love him, but all the 'other stuff' that collectively matters just as much, will take its toll on me and my ability to enjoy the love I feel for him. MM is trying to talk more about his issues. He's raising things and talking about them, NOT asking for advice necessarily, (and certainly not sympathy) but talking. He's acknowledging issues he has with his marriage. He's considering MC - when I say considering it, I don't mean considering attending, I mean he's trying to work out why neither of them are prepared to attend and what they may be missing out on by not going. He's projecting forward his marriage 5, 10, 30 years, and conversely remembering more of who he was 20, 15, 10 years ago and how different he is now. He is absolutely and utterly unmoving on certain things, things I have attempted to contest, the main one being that he feels much happier on his own or with many other people than he does when he's with his wife. He is not nasty about her, and is impressed by some of her achievements and her qualities, and is adamant she is a good person, but apparently there is such a tension for him/them, he has to watch what he says (ought not swear, or be too jokey - her humour is 'refined', he also says that not all of his inhibitions are her, he realises now that he chooses not to show other sides of him); overall he is happier playing golf, or at work, or alone, than with his wife. His language is different now. He uses words like cheat, lie, disrespect, coward, wife, husband, marriage far more often. He laments that he appears unable to take 'action'. But we agreed that he does take action. Every time he calls me, he makes a choice to cheat on his wife. When he goes for a walk, and telephones or texts me, he chooses to be a liar and disrespect his wife, someone he professes to care about. He had been telling himself he 'couldn't help' what he was doing. Where we're at is that he accepts he has, for many years now, taken the easy route (least confrontation) but he's aware that he can't carry on. He says he can't live without sex, and doesn't want to live without what he calls 'a whole' relationship, rather than one where some aspects of him are hidden/disapproved of. He says he thinks more now than ever before about what the hell he has done/is doing in choosing to stay. It makes absolutely no sense to him. I get the impression he's getting slightly bored of his own thoughts. Previously, not that I realised, he was running TO me and hadn't faced up to his home life. Whereas now, he absolutely is NOT running to me, in any way. But he IS working through a lot of everything else. Where does it leave me? Not sure. I feel happier being true to myself, being myself. I still enjoy all time we spend and interaction we have. I am still focused on work, and friends, and whatever. I have absolutely no intention of seeing him. This weekend is a bit of a big deal, I have a joint birthday party/barbecue with my friend, at my house. MM was to attend, but as my boyfriend. He has mentioned the party, that it has been on his mind a lot. But he's not invited at all, not now, and I find that quite tough (probably seems a bit silly to someone else). Yes, yes, yes, I'll admit I still wish so hard that he and I would be together. But I don't imagine it, plan for it, I don't read things in to what he says. He says, for example, 'I think all the time about how I messed it up, what a weak coward I am, how wrong it is on all three of us to carry on like this'. I say... well I say nothing really. Sometimes I ignore it. Sometimes I mock him for being a big eejit for . Sometimes I am flippant and say 'yes well, you did, so there's no point going on about it', or something similar. But my little heart doesn't break for him, far from it. You are at the crossroads. I remember being there. Wanting to move forward, with or without him but staying in the same place, waiting. Not wanting to live without him, but knowing I would be ok if I was. Afraid of ? I still don't know how to exactly describe what I was afraid of. You don't have to go completely NC. You can do limited contact, and see how that works. I think when you cut someone completely out of your life before you are ready, it is like a death and it causes a relapse. And instead of baby steps forward, it's giant steps back. You know what you want. It is your life and you should live it in a way that you can be happy about the choices you made. You do not have to make a decision now. You can take it day by day and see how it goes. What will be, will be. Keep doing what you're doing. I understand about the party. We had the same type of experience. I did have a great time though because I have been blessed with the best friends one could ever have. ((HUGS)) GEL
fooled once Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 Oh Silly.......... Please, for your own sanity, do not get sucked back in. If you mean that much to him, tell him to look you up after he is divorced. You are playing with fire here. I worry that in 6 months, you are going to right back to where you were a couple months ago. He has a hold on you; and you are going to want to believe him THIS time, thinking he KNOWS how hurt you were, he wouldn't do that again. Please hon, don't re-engage with him. Let him sort his life out first. ((hugs))
theodora Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 I feel like I'm coming into this story late, but I've read the posts here, and think I have some understanding of the situation from this thread. Also, sometimes it maybe is helpful to get a perspective from someone who doesn't completely know the origins of the story. I say this because from your posts here I get a gist, some kind of sense, of something, which I felt I had to write about. I guess, I feel angry. I feel angry on your behalf about the amount of time you are investing in concerns to do with this man and his problems in his relationship. It is clear to me from your posts that you are an intelligent, compassionate woman. But we are all fools in these kinds of situations. And honestly, I think he is taking you for a fool. Maybe saying so isn't going to help you. But for the record, believe me I'm worse than you. I know it. Maybe that's it: it takes one to know one. It just feels like you're justifying, or trying to justify, behaviour on his part as "incredibly complex" when really it just boils down to one very simple, very clear truth: he has not left his wife. What is stopping him from doing this? If one man wants to leave his wife, if he really wants to leave his wife, he will find a way. There isn't nothing can stop him. Your man doesn't want to leave his wife. And you are still in love with him. Which means you still hope he will leave her. Even if you know he won't. You still hope he will. Which means you are still in real danger of getting hurt. And hurt bad. Part of these affairs, it seems to me, and I kno from my own experience (beLIEVE me) is the getting in and the getting out of them. But you don't sound like someone who enjoys the pain of it. It sounds really so very painful, and like you have done such a good job of ending it, and beginning to move on with your life. In all truth, I think this man sounds like a real ****ty piece of work, that he would even let you spend this much time LISTENING to his problems, when YOU are the one who is in pain. When YOU are the one who is going to end up alone if you carry on with him. Because he, like these people always do, he is looking after number one. If he cares about you, then it's a funny kind of love. And not a love I would wish on my worst enemy. I'm sorry if this is all out of turn, or too much, please tell me to back off if so. I just really feel for you. When I read your post about all the things he is now able to talk about...I just hated him. The LEAST he can do in this situation is deal with his problems by himself, and leave you the hell out of it. What a selfish selfish selfish person. I find his endless acknowledging and considering and talking utterly infuriating. And I don't even know him And....sorry but don't they ALWAYS say they aren't having sex with their wives??? How do you know anything he tells you in this regard has even the slightest grain of truth to it? He lies, ergo he's a liar. He says whatever "truth" best fits the situation. It doesn't make him evil, it just makes him... a liar. I just think it's worth remembering that, because ultimately, lies is what it all comes down to. Go well. Look after yourself. And remember: you deserve better than this. PS I'm also sorry if anything here could/has been answered/raised in other threads.
Author Silly_Girl Posted July 22, 2010 Author Posted July 22, 2010 It's fine to post that! He and I have had 8 hrs on the phone since I last posted on this thread. I've addressed some of those exact same points, funnily enough, even using a similar phrase, about love!!! I'm not resentful or cross for the time we've spent talking. I would do that for someone I cared about. And I don't need a 'reward' (him) to feel it's the right way for ME to behave. He spent a dozen years digging a hole to hide in, yes it will take him some time to get out. But these things now are not confusing or complex, and for him to make them so is laziness and avoidance. I've told him I won't be his marriage sticking plaster for ever and that once he's lost me (when my love has gone) I'm gone for ever. He seems to need me in his life more (general stuff, not agony aunt-ing!), than before, he talks differently and I'm more forthright too. I am happy to hang in there for now. But I have days or weeks of understanding and patience, left; not months and years. I love him but love is not enough. And sex...I'm happy with the 'we don't shag' situation, for various reasons I've covered elsewhere or shall never cover at all, but I see where you're coming from! I have to sleep now but I will read and re-read and take it in and post back in a few days. I'm grateful to everyone who's posted, it does ALL help, I cant imagine what a tizz I'd be in otherwise!
fooled once Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 Man Silly, do you see these posts? LOOK at the time and energy went into them. Know why? Because we all care about you. You are like a little sister (at least to me). Please read and re-read, with as much of an open mind as you possibly can, okay? I am just in awe of the support and advice you have been given on this thread. Just wanted you to show you (by bumping this up) how much you are respected and liked. We care about you and don't want to see you go backwards or get hurt.
silverplanets Posted July 22, 2010 Posted July 22, 2010 Man Silly, do you see these posts? LOOK at the time and energy went into them. Know why? Because we all care about you. You are like a little sister (at least to me). Please read and re-read, with as much of an open mind as you possibly can, okay? I am just in awe of the support and advice you have been given on this thread. Just wanted you to show you (by bumping this up) how much you are respected and liked. We care about you and don't want to see you go backwards or get hurt. Nice post FO. And I agree with you. SG comes across as a good egg- thinking it through, taking advice, but also more importantly making her own decisions and taking responsibilty for her own path.
Author Silly_Girl Posted July 23, 2010 Author Posted July 23, 2010 I am v v busy at work and home, had major car issues and trying to sort the legals on my house. Blah blah, and indeed, blah! Anyway. Quick update is, I REALLY am taking this stuff on board. I have had a frank talk with MM (who, sadly, I am even more certain I want to be with with. Ouch.). I have told him I am not overly interested in hearing the same stuff over and over again. I told him he needs to make a decision only. He says so many times he's certain he wants to be with me and then he gets hung up on job/house/telling wife etc. My point is that there's no point torturing himself with all the other stuff if he hasn't made the decision to leave. let's just call it what it is if the decision is to stay. I warned him that I'm 100% 'in' right now, but that will go, without a doubt, the longer this continues, and once I'm out, I'm 100% out never to return. I asked him what he wants/expects from me, and over what period. I told him that 'I love you' is starting/will start to sound damned hollow if things continue as they are. And other 'stuff'. We're still in touch, but much less. We're going to talk on the phone next week. From my point of view I'm still sure I want to be with him (bagsy my Understatment of the Year award ), but need to be realistic. I will get such a lot of stick for this, but I'm hanging in there because I feel him leaving his wife, for me, is what is best for everyone. I know he will cheat on his wife again, I know she is cheating on him. I know they are very unhappy and have no tools with which to fix things. I know they feel attached to each other (very sibling-like) and their routines, but they have no inclination to seek counselling. And even if things improved they will NEVER have a sex life, there was no spark 12 years ago - it's not going to appear from nowhere now. But they are his problems, I believe I have (or the relationship has) helped him see so many, many things he could never have realised in his pre-SG life, but I can't do the do for him. He and I, it's like I've known him all my life. I did not know you could get everything from one person, not that you should necessarily, but that you CAN. Had no clue. The ONLY thing I want in my life he can't give me is my occasional but raucous clubbing nights out. Everything else I can do/share with him, or alongside him, or not with him, whatever. But we get along and understand each other, and spark off each other; he's funny, kind, intelligent, sensitive, intensely romantic, deliciously filthy, he's fantastic with my son, he works hard, he's adventurous but reliable... there's not a single deal-breaker. Oh yes, except he's married There's a few days left in this. Maybe a couple of weeks, max. God, tears in my eyes even writing that. But I can't hang around.
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