Namul Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 Ah, so if Jesus came on LS and proclaimed gays are NOT born that way and choose to be gay and they should NOT be allowed to marry, we should listen to him. Mere people, however.... Mere people should discuss amongst themselves their beliefs and judge for themselves the value, and truthfulness of everything. Question everything. Base their religious opinions or lack thereof on things they have learned for themselves, not on what they heard from someone who heard from someone else. Mere people should be willing to have their beliefs challenged and be able to defend them. Being mere people though, more likely what will happen is that they will seek to twist the words of others to suit their own needs. They will attempt to eliminate the value of a persons opinion and well thought out arguments by paraphrasing with one line. And if all else fails, being mere people they will fall back to name calling and stereotyping. If Jesus were to come on here, and end the issue once and for all, it still wouldn't be enough for most people. Being mere people, after he left there would be years of word twisting and rationalizing, etc. until what he had written could be interpreted multiple ways to say what one wanted it to say. There would be mere people who say it wasn't really him. There would be mere people who embraced it. There would be mere people who believe it but do not follow it. There would be mere people who thought others were stupid for believing it. There would be mere people who tried to incorporate it in their lives.
califnan Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 All we're trying to say here is live and let live. Let God judge people for their actions. Live how you want and allow others to do the same, as long as they aren't infringing on your right to how YOU live. ------------------- It would seem that most are here to share their views.. You (donnamaybe) have been on other threads going after the OW often enough.. If there weren't discussion .. would there be LS. ..
Namul Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 All we're trying to say here is live and let live. Let God judge people for their actions. Live how you want and allow others to do the same, as long as they aren't infringing on your right to how YOU live. I believe that is pretty much the sum of every post I have made on LS. What I chimed in on in this thread was the cherry picking of old testament scriptures being pointed at new testament Christians. There are a ton of them that can be used to torment someone that is not well grounded in their beliefs. One of my favorites to torment Sunday school teachers with as a teenager was this one.Ezekiel 23:20 I would stand up and say that I wanted to share a scripture with the class because it "touched me" I would then read Ezekiel 23:20 "There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses." It is easy to derail a lot of christians because they only know the parts of the bible that they hear during the church service. It used to be one of my greatest pleasures to let the air out of the self righteous. This lead me to figuring out how to counter my own arguments.
califnan Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 I'm not agreeing there should be legislation against OW, am I? I don't have a problem with opinions. It's when people use those opinions to oppress others and ruin their lives when they're doing NOTHING to hurt said oppressors. And I'm not "going after OW." I'm merely speaking my mind. I have no problem exchanging conversation with most OW, even if we disagree. Now stay on topic, please. ------------------- Of course you are known to go after many others on here esp. OW's .. "Live and let live" .. ha "Stay on topic" .. (now you're the moderator). There is no legislation against homosexuality.
Namul Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 You are SO bad! But that's funny!!! It got worse once my buddy...a strapping African American teenager got in on it with me. After I would finish reading he would shout "AMEN ! WHERE DA WHITE WOMEN!" It wasn't long after that that our parents agreed that forcing us to go to church was not a good idea. Amazing how much my life has changed since then. From doing everything I could to get away from Christianity, to hoping that everyone I come in to contact with knows I am Christian.
califnan Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 Pathetic twisting attempt by someone who's lost the debate. Funny. Would you really prefer I take it to one? Yes there is. --------------------- It's not obvious to you yet, that everyone on here has their Own definite opinions - for one reason or another.. As for going to the moderator .. If you are among the ones on here who report other members .. who cares - That would be your problem, and in line as to how you also conduct your life.. Not aware of legislation against homosexuals .. they get to be homosexuals.
Tayla Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 Side note: Donnamaybe and Samantha, to you both I am in awe of your spirit and sense of wellness in this worldly view. Thank you both for bringing to light the realities. Civil rights and current rights are certainly platforms for standing firm. Mostly I laughed in a good way at the funny ways of dealing with scripture. Sometimes we gotta laugh at the follies of things....but I will never laugh at the unkindness spread about human differences of life styles....
sally4sara Posted July 16, 2010 Posted July 16, 2010 Anyone who doesn't believe there is and was legislation against homosexuals needs to look up the Stonewall Riots of 1969. It use to be that not just being gay, but SEEMING gay, interacting in a possibly (not really) gay manner got you thrown in jail. And no, not in the colonial day but as little as 30-40 years ago.
xxoo Posted July 16, 2010 Posted July 16, 2010 Not aware of legislation against homosexuals .. they get to be homosexuals. Wow. That's like saying black Americans in the early 20th century "get to be" black. Anyone who doesn't believe there is and was legislation against homosexuals needs to look up the Stonewall Riots of 1969. It use to be that not just being gay, but SEEMING gay, interacting in a possibly (not really) gay manner got you thrown in jail. And no, not in the colonial day but as little as 30-40 years ago. Sodomy laws were still on the books in 13 states when the Supreme Court finally repealed them all in 2003. 2003!!!
califnan Posted July 16, 2010 Posted July 16, 2010 Wow. Sodomy laws were still on the books in 13 states when the Supreme Court finally repealed them all in 2003. 2003!!! ------------------- As I said, These are the ending times.. Jesus is coming..
Scrivdog Posted July 16, 2010 Posted July 16, 2010 ------------------- As I said, These are the ending times.. Jesus is coming..Yeah that's what I thought too when they came out with that "Fat Albert" movie a while back.
SpanksTheMonkey Posted July 16, 2010 Posted July 16, 2010 ------------------- As I said, These are the ending times.. Jesus is coming.. Haven't people been saying stuff like that for what the last 20 years? Jesus must have opted for a really slow boat or something..
pureinheart Posted July 16, 2010 Posted July 16, 2010 None of you will change my mind and I will not change your mind, therefore we will have to agree to disagree. I do have to say that I never really thought too much about this issue. My exfiance' has a gay sister...the hell she went through with her gf's was unreal so he began to study this and ask his sister questions concerning the agenda of the gay community...I won't say it on here, although it's scary. At the time I didn't believe him because gay people seemed quite passive and didn't seem militant at all. I have always disagreed with the lifestyle, and felt to each his own...and in fact communicated that in the first gay thread by fit. I saw the attack on me because I disagreed, the attack to my person and this is due to the "loving relationships" that I disagreed with. I saw the twisting of my words by those that defend the agenda. My ex was right, this is scary...so I guess all of you did change my mind...
pureinheart Posted July 16, 2010 Posted July 16, 2010 Haven't people been saying stuff like that for what the last 20 years? Jesus must have opted for a really slow boat or something.. Actually the hope has been in existance since the original Apostles...we don't know the day or the hour...could be in the next second:)...are you ready....I certainly am:D
SpanksTheMonkey Posted July 16, 2010 Posted July 16, 2010 None of you will change my mind and I will not change your mind, therefore we will have to agree to disagree. I do have to say that I never really thought too much about this issue. My exfiance' has a gay sister...the hell she went through with her gf's was unreal so he began to study this and ask his sister questions concerning the agenda of the gay community...I won't say it on here, although it's scary. At the time I didn't believe him because gay people seemed quite passive and didn't seem militant at all. I have always disagreed with the lifestyle, and felt to each his own...and in fact communicated that in the first gay thread by fit. I saw the attack on me because I disagreed, the attack to my person and this is due to the "loving relationships" that I disagreed with. I saw the twisting of my words by those that defend the agenda. My ex was right, this is scary...so I guess all of you did change my mind... Are you seriously suggesting that gays have some type of materiality like hidden agenda?
SpanksTheMonkey Posted July 16, 2010 Posted July 16, 2010 Actually the hope has been in existance since the original Apostles...we don't know the day or the hour...could be in the next second:)...are you ready....I certainly am:D Well I do need to pick up some cat litter but other then that yeah im good to go..
SpanksTheMonkey Posted July 16, 2010 Posted July 16, 2010 (edited) ******military ***** Edited July 16, 2010 by SpanksTheMonkey
xxoo Posted July 16, 2010 Posted July 16, 2010 None of you will change my mind and I will not change your mind, therefore we will have to agree to disagree. I do have to say that I never really thought too much about this issue. My exfiance' has a gay sister...the hell she went through with her gf's was unreal so he began to study this and ask his sister questions concerning the agenda of the gay community...I won't say it on here, although it's scary. At the time I didn't believe him because gay people seemed quite passive and didn't seem militant at all. I have always disagreed with the lifestyle, and felt to each his own...and in fact communicated that in the first gay thread by fit. I saw the attack on me because I disagreed, the attack to my person and this is due to the "loving relationships" that I disagreed with. I saw the twisting of my words by those that defend the agenda. My ex was right, this is scary...so I guess all of you did change my mind... I almost wish you would say, because I can't imagine what you are talking about . I'd love to know the "agenda" I'm defending!
sally4sara Posted July 16, 2010 Posted July 16, 2010 I almost wish you would say, because I can't imagine what you are talking about . I'd love to know the "agenda" I'm defending! But that would ruin the ominous tone the Doomsdayer's agenda relies on!
Samantha0905 Posted July 16, 2010 Posted July 16, 2010 Well the end of days has no ominous implications for homosexuals in particular. In Christianity it represents Jesus returning and bringing an end to suffering and evil. I can't speak much about Judaism because I'm not Jewish, but I believe in the Jewish religion it represents the Coming of the Messiah. Back to Christianity....... my son is a Christian and has no worries about the end of days. I do think it's rather odd to be consumed with the "end of days" in such an ominous tone and also implying it represents something bad for homosexuals. It's so strange, closed-minded and rather arrogant. It certainly isn't a statement flowing with love for one's fellow man -- and we are all God's children. I don't have anything much to say about the "hidden agenda" remark because it hardly deserves a response. I will simply say I think the "agenda" homosexuals have includes wanting to be able to legally marry and serve in the military openly -- but neither of those are hidden, unreasonable, harmful to others, etc.
gamma1 Posted July 16, 2010 Posted July 16, 2010 It's ok for you to condemn my veiws? Just because I don't agree with your opinion it turns into a "fundamentalists" issue...because I have my own mind there is a problem? It's not ok to "bash" gays, although it is ok to bash Christians. I'm not sure if this an entire internet thing, although in some of these forums and on a national level (which is scary IMO) the Christians are being bullied into not having any say so in much of anything...in fact anyone who disagrees is attcked on a personal level and the agenda is to silence them. This is control IMO. I did not condemn your views. However, it's not ok for fundamentalists to force their views on others, which happens very frequently. These Christian fundamentalists do bash gays and some do it all the time. I've seen it and it is sickening. Gays deserve the same rights as stright people such as marriage, being able to serve in the military, being able to work without the threat of being fired just for being gay. I fully support their fight for equal rights.
gamma1 Posted July 16, 2010 Posted July 16, 2010 None of you will change my mind and I will not change your mind, therefore we will have to agree to disagree. I do have to say that I never really thought too much about this issue. My exfiance' has a gay sister...the hell she went through with her gf's was unreal so he began to study this and ask his sister questions concerning the agenda of the gay community...I won't say it on here, although it's scary. Now, it's the "agenda" of the gay community. Are you judging all gays based on the most extreme groups? Some heterosexuals are passive and some are agressive. The same can be said about homosexuals. Really, is the agenda of militant gay groups any more scary than the agenda of militant fundamentalist religious groups?
gamma1 Posted July 16, 2010 Posted July 16, 2010 ------------------- As I said, These are the ending times.. Jesus is coming.. Jesus was quite accepting of others. If Jesus is coming, maybe he could becoming a member of congress and help end discrimination against gays.
Samantha0905 Posted July 16, 2010 Posted July 16, 2010 Things will eventually progress to where the civil rights of homosexuals are no longer violated..... There's a great article in The New York Times if anyone is interested in reading it -- it's titled "When the Bride Takes a Bride, Businesses Respond." Google recently also took bold steps to defend the rights of homosexuals: "Citing a tax law that says health insurance benefits paid to civil partners of homosexual employees are considered taxable income, while benefits provided to married spouses are not taxed, Google announced it will rectify the tax "discrimination" against homosexuals by paying them the difference. On average an extra $1,069 per year will be given to homosexuals, according to a NY Times report." I have a feeling things are going to move forward more quickly than people expect in this area.....
LittleTiger Posted July 16, 2010 Posted July 16, 2010 Just to get away from the religious/gay/civil rights discussion going on here (I can't really comment on this because I know next to nothing about religion but I will say that if Jesus is on his way to our neck of the solar system I'm damn sure, from the little I've heard about him, he'll accept every single one of us for who, or what, we are)! So what I was going to say on this topic, following on from my belief that being gay is just a genetic mutation (which incidentally, may or may not have a biological advantage - genetic mutations are often repeated regardless of their serving any biological purpose), is that I walked into a waiting room today and saw a guy sitting on chair doing absolutely nothing. He may have glanced at his mobile once or twice but, for most of the time he was fairly motionless. I knew as soon as I saw him that he was gay. I saw he was gay in the same way that I saw he was male. He didn't look, or act any different from any other man, just an ordinary young man in jeans etc waiting in a waiting room for his partner. I just knew he was gay. (I later saw him with his partner so I know my instinct was correct). Now, maybe I have an astonishingly accurate 'gaydar' but I have always been able to do this. I can walk into a room and spot a gay person, male or female, straight away. To me they are almost a separate gender. I have a gay male friend I met on a course a few years ago. On the same course was a lesbian. I knew as soon as I set eyes on both of them. I am not the only person who is able to distinguish gay people in this way. I have a close friend who has gender dysphoria (she is physically male, but believes she is female and was born in the wrong body). Now that I know her well, I believe she's female too. Did she choose to be this way. Hell NO!!! Her life has been a torment since she was a child. Some 'boys' born this way have tried to cut off their own penis because, to them, it shouldn't be there. I knew when I met my friend (who presented herself publicly as a man) that 'he' was different - unusual is probably a better word. I couldn't say why. He wasn't like a straight guy and he wasn't like a gay man either. My friend is confused and distressed about her identity and her sexuality and hasn't had sex in years because of it. She isn't accepted or understood by either the 'straight' community or the 'gay' community. There are absolutely no positives to being in this situation, so she certainly isn't choosing this because it 'feels good' as somebody suggested a while back. To me, it's glaringly obvious that we are all born different. We are all genetic mutations, every single one of us, and we have no right to judge anybody for being true to themselves and choosing to live a life that feels right to them. If a certain lifestyle is not making us happy, what is wrong with choosing something different if it makes us happier. The lucky ones amongst us will grow and change as we get older and will learn more about ourselves and our needs with time. If a straight person apparently 'turns' gay, it may just mean that they have discovered their true nature or perhaps they've just grown strong enough to stand up and be counted. Some of us like chicken, others like beef and some dislike the taste of meat altogether. Some of us like carrots, others like peas, most dislike sprouts and offal. We no more choose these preferences than we do our own genders or sexual preferences. For the religious people out there, doesn't it say somewhere in the bible 'live and let live'? If it doesn't, it damn well should.
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