bayouboi Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 Oh, sure there was. You just choose not to see it. She was claiming my opinions didn't matter because I had no "life experience" and knew nothing of "the oppressed" and I blew her theories out of the water. Clearer now? I suppose I just chose not to read it because I have no idea what you're talking about lol. I don't read half the stuff you guys post, to be honest, because neither side will change the other's point of view in the end anyway.
Honorable_Venerable Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 ----------------------- No, by oppressed - I am speaking of those who fall into being terrible victims by life's uncontrollable circumstances.. You haven't answered my question.
Stung Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 bay, how many of your hetero friends have been victims of sexual abuse "that you know of"? Sadly, sexual abuse is shockingly common in the histories of gay and straight people alike Indeed. Myself and my cousin were both molested throughout our childhoods, by the same relative. She identifies as lesbian while I identify as straight and am cheerfully engaged in what Ms. Carrie Prejean termed "opposite marriage" . Two very good friends of mine who led happy childhoods unmarred by sexual assault--and believe me, we have shared everything--are very, very gay. Another friend of mine who was raped in her early teens--straight as the day is long. I don't believe in the concept of sin. I don't believe homosexuality is wrong, whether it's a choice or not...but I also believe that it is something most are born with, rather than some conscious decision. No Christian-bashing here; while I am not religious myself, I have nothing but admiration for real Christians who embrace the loving aspect supposed to be inherent in that religion. I have a lot of respect for some of the Christian posters on the other thread, i.e. Samantha and Namul (sp). One thing I have noticed several posters stumbling over is the concept of 'doing' versus 'being'. Behavior, vs. what one feels in their heart.
Scrivdog Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 For decades now scientists and psychologists have been studying the causes of homosexuality. And as of today, there is no credible study that shows the correlation between parental behavior, abuse, or lack of fatherly support and sexual preference. And there certainly have been many attempts to find one. Religious fundies are fascinating in their ability to believe the most absurd things possible. Never ceases to amaze me. At the same time, these are people that if they think God told them to do something - they'll do it. Even if it means drowning gay babies or something.
califnan Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 Just calling out the BS when it slams me and everyone else right in the face. But keep going. It's getting deeper and deeper. You may provide employment for someone to clean up the mess. ------------------------ No .. not necessarily on this thread .. I apologize for the name calling .. just had to laugh ..
pureinheart Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 this is the follow up to my other thread about attending the gay wedding. That thread is out of control so I figured I would start a new one. In case anyone missed it. I am going to the wedding solo. I can handle it. Now onto other topics.. For all of you saying being homosexual is a "choice" and theres no way you could be born that way, is that what you think ? Really ? Reallly ?? Hmm...lets see. Why would you choose to live a life (males I am talking about here) where most of america despises you and you could even get your ass kicked in some places for that choice ? Why make a choice where you can be discriminated at in every arena...work, home, at the mall, at the movies, you name it. Why would you choose to be potentially ostracized from your family ? why would you endure a lifetime of insults and taunts ? Why would you choose to have to hide your dating preferences from many people your whole LIFE ? Why would you, if you chose to try to make it work with a woman, blow up your marriage, career, and kids lives to be with a man ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_McGreevey If you could have fame, fortune and any girl in the world, why would you CHOOSE to be gay ? (Rikki Martin, George Michael) Why ? Why ? Why? Give me any logic on any level that would explain that. Hatred of the opposite sex among many other reasons...rebellion. I am taking from your post that being gay is quite a negative experience...so then "why" would a person go there...why do people use drugs when they know the implications...so people are born drug users?
xxoo Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 Hatred of the opposite sex among many other reasons...rebellion. I don't know anyone, gay or straight, who hates the opposite sex. Is there any research that supports gay people being more hateful of the opposite sex or rebellious than straight people? Anecdotally, many of the gay people I know took a LONG time to come out to their parents and family because they are such "people pleasers". I'm talking about people who lived "in the closet" into their 30s, for fear of breaking their mother's hearts Also anecdotally, their mothers tend to be the ones that teach that homosexuality is "wrong". I am taking from your post that being gay is quite a negative experience...so then "why" would a person go there...why do people use drugs when they know the implications...so people are born drug users? Being gay is not an inherently negative experience. The way gay people are treated in our society is a negative experience. You are comparing loving a partner to drug use?
pureinheart Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 (edited) I don't know anyone, gay or straight, who hates the opposite sex. Wow, you must not get out much:confused: Is there any research that supports gay people being more hateful of the opposite sex or rebellious than straight people? Anecdotally, many of the gay people I know took a LONG time to come out to their parents and family because they are such "people pleasers". I'm talking about people who lived "in the closet" into their 30s, for fear of breaking their mother's hearts Also anecdotally, their mothers tend to be the ones that teach that homosexuality is "wrong". Most of the gay people I know are far from being people pleasers, so are you saying that it is the mothers fault? Being gay is not an inherently negative experience. The way gay people are treated in our society is a negative experience. That is the way the OP portayed it. Gay people are not treated poorly anymore, in fact what I am seeing is that they have become passive/aggressive, which that is changing and it is more aggressive. You are comparing loving a partner to drug use? According to the way the OP read...yes as it is a choice like those who abuse drugs...choice, choice....please do not twist my words to validate your own agenda...thank you Edited July 14, 2010 by pureinheart
xxoo Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 Can't figure out how to quote Pureinheart's post. In reply: Not the mother's fault that the grown child is gay; child would be gay regardless. Yes, the mother's/parent's fault that the adult child lived a lie and stayed closeted for many years. I didn't mean to imply that most gay people are people pleasers (or anything else--the gay population is as diverse as the straight population). I brought it up to illustrate that *rebellion* is not a unifying trait. Yes gay people are treated poorly. Every time a gay couple is denyed the same rights as a heterosexual couple, a gay person is being treated poorly: tax deductions, hospital visiting rights, inheritance, adoption rights, custody rights, etc. Not to mention, gay individuals are treated poorly in their own families when their parents reject their loving relationships.
Samantha0905 Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 Can't figure out how to quote Pureinheart's post. In reply: Not the mother's fault that the grown child is gay; child would be gay regardless. Yes, the mother's/parent's fault that the adult child lived a lie and stayed closeted for many years. I didn't mean to imply that most gay people are people pleasers (or anything else--the gay population is as diverse as the straight population). I brought it up to illustrate that *rebellion* is not a unifying trait. Yes gay people are treated poorly. Every time a gay couple is denyed the same rights as a heterosexual couple, a gay person is being treated poorly: tax deductions, hospital visiting rights, inheritance, adoption rights, custody rights, etc. Not to mention, gay individuals are treated poorly in their own families when their parents reject their loving relationships. I can't tell you how happy I am that our son came out to us when he was 11 or 12. It made me feel proud as a parent he was comfortable enough to let me know what was going on in his head and heart. I can't imagine the anxiety that must go on in a child's head when they are telling a parent something and are not sure whether they should feel ashamed about it or what. It makes me angry he ever thought it was something he had to worry about sharing with me. It is who he is. I am proud of who he is. He had no way to know what our reaction would be, but he was able to come to me to tell me what was going on with him. I'm glad he knew I loved him enough he could share his true feelings with me and he most certainly did not receive any condemnation for them. I just quoted what you said because I couldn't agree more. Plus, there is no "fault" when it comes to being gay. There is no "fault" because fault implies a weakness, failing or mistake. There is nothing about my son that is a mistake. He's a wonderful human being and I hope one day he will be able to marry the person of his choice.
gamma1 Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 Hatred of the opposite sex among many other reasons...rebellion. I am taking from your post that being gay is quite a negative experience...so then "why" would a person go there...why do people use drugs when they know the implications...so people are born drug users? That's not true. Gay people are gay because they are born gay. Even single gay person that I know had told me this. They are not attracted to the opposite sex, but they don't hate the opposite sex. If it was rebellion, you would see very very few gays who are older adluts. Comapring gays to drug users is meaningless. They should be compared to straight people.
pureinheart Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 That's not true. Gay people are gay because they are born gay. Even single gay person that I know had told me this. They are not attracted to the opposite sex, but they don't hate the opposite sex. If it was rebellion, you would see very very few gays who are older adluts. Comapring gays to drug users is meaningless. They should be compared to straight people. If they are not attracted to the opposite sex then why is there a male and female version? The majority (in fact all) of gay couples that I have seen and known...and I live in an area where it is becoming more common (and has been common for a long time) there is the feminine and the masculin version What I said is true... Do you know how many rebellious adults I know...rebellion is not age limited. I don't agree that people are born gay. I think it is an excuse for justification. If it "ok" then why is there the need to justify? I can see a person defending themselves, although what I see posted is justification. If this is the case then I would say anything goes...we were all born whatever we want to justify at that particular time. Hey if the neighbor wants to go covet the others wife he can say he was born that way...there must be a cell in him or her somewhere wired to go screw the neighbors wife. Next time something happens like your house gets robbed or car stolen, don't call the cops...chalk it up to that person being born that way and forget it...nobody I guess makes choices anymore or is accountable for anything:rolleyes:
califnan Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 If they are not attracted to the opposite sex then why is there a male and female version? The majority (in fact all) of gay couples that I have seen and known...and I live in an area where it is becoming more common (and has been common for a long time) there is the feminine and the masculin version What I said is true... Do you know how many rebellious adults I know...rebellion is not age limited. I don't agree that people are born gay. I think it is an excuse for justification. If it "ok" then why is there the need to justify? I can see a person defending themselves, although what I see posted is justification. If this is the case then I would say anything goes...we were all born whatever we want to justify at that particular time. Hey if the neighbor wants to go covet the others wife he can say he was born that way...there must be a cell in him or her somewhere wired to go screw the neighbors wife. Next time something happens like your house gets robbed or car stolen, don't call the cops...chalk it up to that person being born that way and forget it...nobody I guess makes choices anymore or is accountable for anything:rolleyes: -------------------- God created man and woman to reproduce .. And Not to abort their babies .. And not for two women to lay together - not for two men to lay together ..
pureinheart Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 Can't figure out how to quote Pureinheart's post. In reply: Not the mother's fault that the grown child is gay; child would be gay regardless. Yes, the mother's/parent's fault that the adult child lived a lie and stayed closeted for many years. I didn't mean to imply that most gay people are people pleasers (or anything else--the gay population is as diverse as the straight population). I brought it up to illustrate that *rebellion* is not a unifying trait. Yes gay people are treated poorly. Every time a gay couple is denyed the same rights as a heterosexual couple, a gay person is being treated poorly: tax deductions, hospital visiting rights, inheritance, adoption rights, custody rights, etc. Not to mention, gay individuals are treated poorly in their own families when their parents reject their loving relationships. The anecdote to this would be to go to a country that condones same sex M's. I hope that lifestyle is never condoned in my country... You know, I'm dealing with that in a close friends family and actually a lot of families are dealing with this that I know of...it's an up close and personal kind of thing. My heart goes out to all involved...let's not forget that the families that don't condone this have rights too...
gamma1 Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 I don't agree that people are born gay. I think it is an excuse for justification. If it "ok" then why is there the need to justify? I can see a person defending themselves, although what I see posted is justification. If this is the case then I would say anything goes...we were all born whatever we want to justify at that particular time. Hey if the neighbor wants to go covet the others wife he can say he was born that way...there must be a cell in him or her somewhere wired to go screw the neighbors wife. Next time something happens like your house gets robbed or car stolen, don't call the cops...chalk it up to that person being born that way and forget it...nobody I guess makes choices anymore or is accountable for anything:rolleyes: Every single gay person that I know was born gay. I certainly believe what they tell me far more than someone who tells me that being gay is a bad thing. I was born straight. I can't just one day say I'm going to be gay today. I'll always be straight. I can't switch sexual orientations and gays can't switch sexual orientations either. Coveting another's wife should be compared to a gay person coveting another's partner. Cheating on someones wife is the exact same thing as cheating on someones gay partner. A straight person who steals is the equivalent of a gay person who steals. Comparing being gay to commiting horrible crimes is ludicrous and insulting to every gay person out there. Gay people are constantly punished for no reason. They often have to hide the fact they are gay and pretend to live "normal" lives. They are often afraid to tell friends and even family. As of now, they get kicked out of the military with a dishonorable discharge just for being gay. You can be fired in many states just for being gay. What if a gay person wants to get married? Forget that, it's illegal in most states. How about a domestic partnership? Still not legal. All this is not enough for some of you. Some of you want to compare being gay to things such as robbing a bank or raping someone. Gay people deserve the same civil rights as straight people. It's that simple. I know a number of people who have left religion or sometimes changed religions because they are sick and tired of the fundamentalists making religion more about condemning others than helping people.
gamma1 Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 I can't tell you how happy I am that our son came out to us when he was 11 or 12. It made me feel proud as a parent he was comfortable enough to let me know what was going on in his head and heart. I can't imagine the anxiety that must go on in a child's head when they are telling a parent something and are not sure whether they should feel ashamed about it or what. It makes me angry he ever thought it was something he had to worry about sharing with me. It is who he is. I am proud of who he is. He had no way to know what our reaction would be, but he was able to come to me to tell me what was going on with him. I'm glad he knew I loved him enough he could share his true feelings with me and he most certainly did not receive any condemnation for them. I just quoted what you said because I couldn't agree more. Plus, there is no "fault" when it comes to being gay. There is no "fault" because fault implies a weakness, failing or mistake. There is nothing about my son that is a mistake. He's a wonderful human being and I hope one day he will be able to marry the person of his choice. Excellent post. I agree with every word. You should definitely be proud of how you raised your son.
Tayla Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 Gamma, Thank you for standing up for some accurate truths...I get where you are coming from. Sounds that you are open to realities and facts. As you are witnessing some folks carry their own thoughts that differ. So be it, doesnt make what you say any less worthy of reading or respecting. Keep standing up for what is, you seem wise
pureinheart Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 (edited) Every single gay person that I know was born gay. I certainly believe what they tell me far more than someone who tells me that being gay is a bad thing. How did they arrive at this conclusion? I was born straight. I can't just one day say I'm going to be gay today. I'll always be straight. I can't switch sexual orientations and gays can't switch sexual orientations either. It happens all of the time. Coveting another's wife should be compared to a gay person coveting another's partner. Cheating on someones wife is the exact same thing as cheating on someones gay partner. A straight person who steals is the equivalent of a gay person who steals. I used this as an analogy, in these last two threads I am learning that the twisting of words into the shape of a pretzel is a manipulation tactic and used to be effective, so I appreciate this insight. Comparing being gay to commiting horrible crimes is ludicrous and insulting to every gay person out there. Once again twisting Gay people are constantly punished for no reason. They often have to hide the fact they are gay and pretend to live "normal" lives. They are often afraid to tell friends and even family. As of now, they get kicked out of the military with a dishonorable discharge just for being gay. You can be fired in many states just for being gay. What if a gay person wants to get married? Forget that, it's illegal in most states. How about a domestic partnership? Still not legal. Why would someone in this day and hour have to "hide" something that is okay...the hidden things are things that need to be hidden, because in fact they are wrong. All this is not enough for some of you. Some of you want to compare being gay to things such as robbing a bank or raping someone. Manipulation of my actual words/wording. Same as above. Gay people deserve the same civil rights as straight people. It's that simple. I don't agree, this is not a civil rights issue. I know a number of people who have left religion or sometimes changed religions because they are sick and tired of the fundamentalists making religion more about condemning others than helping people. It's ok for you to condemn my veiws? Just because I don't agree with your opinion it turns into a "fundamentalists" issue...because I have my own mind there is a problem? It's not ok to "bash" gays, although it is ok to bash Christians. I'm not sure if this an entire internet thing, although in some of these forums and on a national level (which is scary IMO) the Christians are being bullied into not having any say so in much of anything...in fact anyone who disagrees is attcked on a personal level and the agenda is to silence them. This is control IMO. Edited July 15, 2010 by pureinheart
Scrivdog Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 It's ok for you to condemn my veiws? Just because I don't agree with your opinion it turns into a "fundamentalists" issue...because I have my own mind there is a problem? It's not ok to "bash" gays, although it is ok to bash Christians. I'm not sure if this an entire internet thing, although in some of these forums and on a national level (which is scary IMO) the Christians are being bullied into not having any say so in much of anything...in fact anyone who disagrees is attcked on a personal level and the agenda is to silence them. This is control IMO. There must be 11 channels on regular TV dedicated to Christian fundamentalist dogma at any one time. You can't drive 2 miles anywhere without running into a church, and if you go a bit further you'll whizz by the mega-churchplex. And don't get me started on the plethora of these Christian schools and "academies" all over the place. Go to the bookstore and there's a whole Christian only section. Radio talk show hosts like Dave Ramsey and Dr. Phil all preach religion at some point. Hell, an aspiring candidate to the presidency of the US better be able to prove he's a born-again Christian before even thinking about running. And lately, Christians are trying to push the "Intelligent Design" garbage on the public school system so we can start indoctrinating the kids early. And you think you don't have a say!?
xxoo Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 You know, I'm dealing with that in a close friends family and actually a lot of families are dealing with this that I know of...it's an up close and personal kind of thing. My heart goes out to all involved...let's not forget that the families that don't condone this have rights too... I dealt with it with extremely close relatives recently, too. I'm sure most of us have. In my case, thankfully, the disapproving parent had a change of heart and chose to put the relationship first. Nevertheless, damage was done by the initial hurtful reaction. I'm honestly bewildered how extending legal rights to gay couples affects the rights of their disapproving families You had the right to choose a partner (and a religion) and have the legal protections of marriage, just as they should have.
sally4sara Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 It's ok for you to condemn my veiws? Just because I don't agree with your opinion it turns into a "fundamentalists" issue...because I have my own mind there is a problem? It's not ok to "bash" gays, although it is ok to bash Christians. I'm not sure if this an entire internet thing, although in some of these forums and on a national level (which is scary IMO) the Christians are being bullied into not having any say so in much of anything...in fact anyone who disagrees is attcked on a personal level and the agenda is to silence them. This is control IMO. So tell me, how many christians were born christians? Don't you have to accept your god into your heart and at different stages, repeat this through rituals that no one forces you to repeat? Are there not things that christians do that other christians then scrutinize and think "well they must not really be a believer"? It would be different if you were born that way and had no choice, but your faith is a choice. Its the way it is set up with a heavy emphasis on free will. So comparing the act of bashing gay to the act of bashing christians can't even be compared. What could be compared is perhaps the way some bash different ethnicities. We call that bigotry yes? And its wrong. People don't bash christians simply by not judging the people they judge or not believing as they do. And it cannot be compared to a circumstance one was BORN to. And what do you do to each other within your congregation? If someone had a child that was gay - you DENY them right to choose your faith unless they change about themselves that which they were born to be! As though no one else in the congregation ever does something contrary to the teachings of your faith - even at times through pure choice! Yet they can appeal to your faith and be accepted. But not gays. No. Honestly, I don't even know why christianity is being considered in this thread except that it is most often religious groups that take issue with homosexuality. Choice, or born that way - it matters not to religions groups. They will continue to condemn even if it were proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that gays were born gay. It is funny how you could show them medical evidence and they will plug their ears and close their eyes "lalallalalaa". But their bible - they take as fact. Why bother trying to convince them?
Samantha0905 Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 I don't agree, this is not a civil rights issue.1. Gay people cannot make medical decisions for their partners in an emergency. Hospitals use state laws to go with the family's decision and in many cases the family may be estranged due to having issues with the person being gay. 2. If a partner of a gay person is arrested, they may be compelled to testify or provide evidence against their partner in court. This is not true of married people. 3. A family can challenge a will, overturn a custody decision, exclude a partner from a funeral or deny the right to visit a partner's grave. They can seize real estate property that the partners have been purchasing together for years. These are all civil rights issues that have nothing whatever to do with the religious connotations of marriage. (And besides -- if homosexuals who are Christians desire to be married and want it blessed by God and performed by their minister, that's all fine and wonderful.) Homosexuals are excluded from the rights that legally married couples enjoy and consider as their constitutional right. These are some of the reasons why it is very much a civil rights issue. It is not a matter of "special rights" to ask for the same rights that other couples enjoy by law, even by constitutional mandate.
xxoo Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 Plus, there is no "fault" when it comes to being gay. There is no "fault" because fault implies a weakness, failing or mistake. There is nothing about my son that is a mistake. He's a wonderful human being and I hope one day he will be able to marry the person of his choice. Yes, Sam, I agree wholeheartedly. I meant to clarify that when using "fault" in my post, but forgot.
Samantha0905 Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 Yes, Sam, I agree wholeheartedly. I meant to clarify that when using "fault" in my post, but forgot. I know -- I was mostly speaking to those who see a homosexual child as the "fault" of a parent. Speaking again to the civil rights issue: Declaration of Independence a la Thomas Jefferson: "When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness " Recognized federal civil rights law in the United States is grounded in the U.S. Constitution as interpreted by the Supreme Court. By this standard, marriage has long been established as a civil right. Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment: "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." The U.S. Supreme Court first applied this standard to marriage in Loving v. Virginia (1967), where it struck down a Virginia law banning interracial marriage. The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by Americans. Furthermore, civil rights are guaranteed and should not be put up for a vote. Homosexual marriage is going to become legal and it is going to become legal through the Supreme Court. If our Constitution, and those of the States we live in, cannot provide true equal rights for all our citizens, including those who live in committed same-sex relationships, simply because enough ideologically rigid people choose to "bring it up for a vote," then what do our civil rights really mean? And finally, a nice quote from an article in the Huffington Post: "Denying gay Americans the right to marry is--it must be admitted--a kind of fascism, a form of oppression and control by which individuals blinded by ideology and fear push their repressive agenda onto our otherwise sound political system and demand that the system bend its principles to accommodate their own ignorance. With the right mixture of fear-mongering, religious saber-rattling and conservative funding, you could probably get a referendum passed in this country on denying people who watch public television the right to marry. Shall we bring that up for a vote?"
Namul Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 (edited) I do not know if homosexual orientation is genetic, or a choice. I would lean towards it being a genetic disposition. I will confess that I do not have enough knowledge on the subject to say for sure one way or the other. I have a gay cousin. He was raised Roman Catholic. He grew up on a ranch and his whole family was big in the rodeo circuit. He had 4 wheelers which he only used to go to the mailbox. He had stock fishing ponds, and acres of land to hunt on. These are things I would have killed for, yet he ignored them. When I wanted to watch GI Joe or Transformers, he would encourage me to watch Cats. I bought comic books, he bought GQ. In high school I beat people up for calling him gay. He has moved to New York(from Texas) and is openly gay there. His sisters know, but he hasn't told his parents.He stated that he has been gay for as long as he has been alive. He is someone for whom I could make a case for being born gay. I have a friend I grew up with who is gay. He was one of my best friends. We played in the creek behind his house. Hunted, fished, camped out,stole his dads beer, and successfully chased women together. I went in to the military and he moved to California. He moved back several years ago for awhile. His way of moving, talking and acting had all changed. He went from a masculine man, to a stereotypical gay man. Someone who's mannerism shouted GAY. It was like he went through a check list. limp wrist....check lisp............check highlights....check sitting ladylike....check He no longer walked, he sashayed. He is someone for whom I could make a case for choosing to be gay. Yes I know, he could have been bi and hiding it etc....but he had to learn/train himself to the new mannerisms....seriously...a lisp? He stated that he did not feel gay until he became an adult. Maybe it was California that did it to him.....(that is an attempt at humor) In summation I just do not know. I do not really care one way or the other. It is kind of like the light in my living room. I have an idea of how it turns on, but I really do not care unless it doesn't do so. How my cousin or friend became gay is of far less importance to me than if they have accepted the sacrifice that Jesus made for them out of his love for us. His sacrifice that paid for ALL sins.... not just the ones we find more distasteful than others. Is it a sin? That is a question that I would be looking for an answer to, if it was something that I was dealing with in my own life. For someone else, it is between them and God. This is getting a little long so I am going to stop now, but I do have some more thoughts I will toss out in another post. Edited July 15, 2010 by Namul run on sentence
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