turnstone Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 There is also research showing that genetically there is a pattern that shows gay men/women come from the maternal line. For instance, my cousin is gay and on his mother's side there are several gay cousins and even an aunt, on the paternal side no gay men or women. That was quite an old study and has long since been found to be flawed by the University of Western Ontario. Report summary here this is what is so scary about religious fanatics. Shunning whole groups of people in the name of God? Believing that their specific beliefs and bizarre rituals are right at the exclusion of all others? That is how progression stops. You don't want to progress, you want to control. Quite. Religious extremists are the same the world over, many innocents wind up dead.
Honorable_Venerable Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 ------------------- Probably lines right up from theories that humans evolved from animals .. Where do you stand on cooking on the sabbath, eating pork / shellfish, wearing mixed fibres or men shaving their faces? How about killing your children if they disrespect you?
LittleTiger Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 being "gay" is a genetic mutation not unlike having blue eyes or being tall Short and sweet as always, alpha, and right on the nail. Nothing else to say really.
LittleTiger Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 ------------------- Probably lines right up from theories that humans evolved from animals .. We did!
Scrivdog Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 --------------------- Why would one 'choose' to do any sin.. Murder, Affair w MM/MW, Abortion (baby murder), Theft, Rape ...... because it feeeeels good. Does God have the last word? I believe so .. There is no way that a straight man having sex with another guy is going to "feeeeeel good" like you say. I'm fascinated that you people think things like this. Unbelievable.
xxoo Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 --------------------- Why would one 'choose' to do any sin.. Murder, Affair w MM/MW, Abortion (baby murder), Theft, Rape ...... because it feeeeels good. Whenever I read this argument, I assume that the person asserting the argument is personally struggling to resist gay sex. Is this an issue for you, califnan? Most straight people don't think gay sex would feel good at all---certainly not anywhere as great as hetero sex.
sally4sara Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 Even if it were a choice - who cares? Someone being born gay or choosing to be gay doesn't mean YOU have to have sex with them. Oh no no no no! If we don't stop the gayz, they will come for us in the middle of the night, organize our wardrobe to its most fabulous possibility and rearrange all our furnishings into a more pleasing manner! Even funnier still is women who think gay men just need a good woman to be put back on track. For what? YOU? As Johnny McGovern says: http://gaypimp.com/mvideo.html
gamma1 Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 What you're saying simply isn't borne out by facts. You just don't want to acknowledge that you are capable of engaging in homosexual behavior under the right set of circumstances. Just as many people who later identify themselves as "gay" can spend many years in heterosexual relationships. It is borne out of facts. I'm not attracted to any other males. Not one. Even if I could somehow magically change who I'm attracted to, why would I want to? It's not easy to be gay in this country. The people who later identify themselves as gay were always gay or possibly bisexual. Since being gay is unfortunately looked down upon by many people, they might try to hide it and live as "normal" as a life as possible. They will even get married to women occasionally.
gamma1 Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 --------------------- Why would one 'choose' to do any sin.. Murder, Affair w MM/MW, Abortion (baby murder), Theft, Rape ...... because it feeeeels good. Does God have the last word? I believe so .. The only things homosexual sex can be compared to is heterosexual sex.
Els Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 Since I agree califnan is doing a horrible job of making a point, allow me to present the mainstream Christian point of view. Note that I do not agree with it, but have received sufficient 'teaching' to understand it. Most would call it 'the sinful nature', not a 'choice' per se. They believe that while the person may wish to restrain or right themselves, the body is weak and cannot resist the 'lure of the devil' without the help of Christ. This is inherently different from the 'choice' theory stated by the OP, because they believe that the person, in his soul, desires to stop the homosexuality, but the draw of lust and desire is too great. So their aim is to 'help the person overcome his sinful nature'. They see it as analogous to a therapist helping someone to overcome an addiction, etc.
gamma1 Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 So is your judgmental attitude - according to the bible. I have to wonder if some of these anti gay people use a different bible. Maybe their bible has half its pages filled with anti gay statements or maybe their bible is the platform for a political party that opposes treating gays like the rest of the population.
sally4sara Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 I have to wonder if some of these anti gay people use a different bible. Maybe their bible has half its pages filled with anti gay statements or maybe their bible is the platform for a political party that opposes treating gays like the rest of the population. Its not a matter of a different bible so often as it is a different (ignorant) interpretation. Most people believe the story of Gomorrah is a message against homosexuality. Its not.
xxoo Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 Since I agree califnan is doing a horrible job of making a point, allow me to present the mainstream Christian point of view. Note that I do not agree with it, but have received sufficient 'teaching' to understand it. Most would call it 'the sinful nature', not a 'choice' per se. They believe that while the person may wish to restrain or right themselves, the body is weak and cannot resist the 'lure of the devil' without the help of Christ. This is inherently different from the 'choice' theory stated by the OP, because they believe that the person, in his soul, desires to stop the homosexuality, but the draw of lust and desire is too great. So their aim is to 'help the person overcome his sinful nature'. They see it as analogous to a therapist helping someone to overcome an addiction, etc. But everyone has generic "sinful nature". The point is, only gay people have the "sinful nature" of same sex lust. Did they choose that inclination? What motivation would anyone have to do so? Why not choose the easier path of "sinful nature" by being a heterosexual slut?
bayouboi Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 I believe it's a choice because my gay friends have told me that is their belief as well. They all have the same thing in common, as well, and that is sexual trauma in their past usually along the lines of rape or molestation. I think that most of these heterosexual people that seem to cry out about some mythical "gay gene" that "forces people to be naturally gay" are simply caught up in their Christian-bashing that they are using whatever they can grasp as their battle standard. It's laughable, but then again most of their vitriol usually is.
Els Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 But everyone has generic "sinful nature". The point is, only gay people have the "sinful nature" of same sex lust. Did they choose that inclination? What motivation would anyone have to do so? Why not choose the easier path of "sinful nature" by being a heterosexual slut? Unfortunately that's also frowned upon.
xxoo Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 Unfortunately that's also frowned upon. But my point is, why would anyone CHOOSE the sin of gay sex, when the easier path of hetero sin is available. Calling it all "sinful nature" doesn't address the issue of inherent draw to exclusively heterosexual or homosexual sex.
gamma1 Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 Its not a matter of a different bible so often as it is a different (ignorant) interpretation. Most people believe the story of Gomorrah is a message against homosexuality. Its not. I know, but wonder if that's all it is with some of these people. I'm sure there's thousands upon thousands of things theat are forbidden in their interpretation the bible, yet they fixate on the gay thing.
Els Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 But my point is, why would anyone CHOOSE the sin of gay sex, when the easier path of hetero sin is available. Calling it all "sinful nature" doesn't address the issue of inherent draw to exclusively heterosexual or homosexual sex. ? My explanation stated explicitly that they did not 'choose' it. Different people are tempted by different things. Probably like how stealing is of great appeal to a klepto but most of us would balk at the thought of being so dishonorable. Or fire and pyromaniacs, etc.
gamma1 Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 I believe it's a choice because my gay friends have told me that is their belief as well. They all have the same thing in common, as well, and that is sexual trauma in their past usually along the lines of rape or molestation. I think that most of these heterosexual people that seem to cry out about some mythical "gay gene" that "forces people to be naturally gay" are simply caught up in their Christian-bashing that they are using whatever they can grasp as their battle standard. It's laughable, but then again most of their vitriol usually is. None of the gay people I know have suffered rape or molestation. Explain that one. There's already been reseach done to suggest that there are differences well within the brain in gay people. It's very likely theat there is a gay gene or something of that nature.
sally4sara Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 I know, but wonder if that's all it is with some of these people. I'm sure there's thousands upon thousands of things theat are forbidden in their interpretation the bible, yet they fixate on the gay thing. They fixate on the gay thing for the same reasons humans everywhere fixate on sex in general. Its sooooo tantalizing! The story of Gomorrah is about breaking the virtue of hospitality. The people in Gomorrah were well know for torturing vagrants, beggers, and uninvited visitors to the town. The request to send the two strangers out to the crowd "so that they may know them" wasn't so that they could know them by having sex with them. It was to verify that they were strangers with no one to speak for them and if they were, to torture them as they did other uninvited visitors. Why would Lot have offered his daughters instead if the crowd was a bunch of homosexuals?!?
bayouboi Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 So you personally know each and every gay person on the planet? I can't imagine how you could otherwise draw the conclusion that EVERY SINGLE GAY PERSON has abuse in their past. Like I said, the Christian-bashers vitriol is laughable. Most rational and unbiased posters won't read my post as declaring that "EVERY SINGLE GAY PERSON has abuse in their past". I simply declared my own friends' personal experiences and how it has helped reinforce my own perspective.
bayouboi Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 None of the gay people I know have suffered rape or molestation. Explain that one. There's already been reseach done to suggest that there are differences well within the brain in gay people. It's very likely theat there is a gay gene or something of that nature. Your first sentence should be qualified with "that I know of". As to your second point, I have no doubt that by the time someone has chosen to be homosexual that they show different brain activity than normal people..."nurture" or stimuli tends to have this altering effect. "It's very likely theat there is a gay gene or something of that nature." is a FAR cry from actual scientific evidence, so this declaration is, at present, entirely unfounded.
lolapalooza Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 I'd like to know where any of you think you have the right to judge whether it is right OR wrong. Last I looked, no one here had a user name of God.
bayouboi Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 I'd like to know where any of you think you have the right to judge whether it is right OR wrong. Last I looked, no one here had a user name of God. My mistake, I thought the debate was whether or not we "thought" homosexuality was a choice. I didn't realize we were debating whether it was right or wrong.
sally4sara Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 Like I said, the Christian-bashers vitriol is laughable. Most rational and unbiased posters won't read my post as declaring that "EVERY SINGLE GAY PERSON has abuse in their past". I simply declared my own friends' personal experiences and how it has helped reinforce my own perspective. Yes, you are saying that the circumstances of your own exposure to the gay people you personally know has colored your perspective of gay people and what you suspect is behind other gay people's sexual orientation. Yet, some of us know gay people who never experienced molestation of rape. So your reinforced perspective doesn't hold water. It has nothing to do with our opinion of your god. You are just choosing to believe it is about your god for your own reasons, whatever those reasons may be. I'll go one further and let you know that I know people who WERE molested and raped that are NOT gay.
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