fit Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 (edited) this is the follow up to my other thread about attending the gay wedding. That thread is out of control so I figured I would start a new one. In case anyone missed it. I am going to the wedding solo. I can handle it. Now onto other topics.. For all of you saying being homosexual is a "choice" and theres no way you could be born that way, is that what you think ? Really ? Reallly ?? Hmm...lets see. Why would you choose to live a life (males I am talking about here) where most of america despises you and you could even get your ass kicked in some places for that choice ? Why make a choice where you can be discriminated at in every arena...work, home, at the mall, at the movies, you name it. Why would you choose to be potentially ostracized from your family ? why would you endure a lifetime of insults and taunts ? Why would you choose to have to hide your dating preferences from many people your whole LIFE ? Why would you, if you chose to try to make it work with a woman, blow up your marriage, career, and kids lives to be with a man ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_McGreevey If you could have fame, fortune and any girl in the world, why would you CHOOSE to be gay ? (Rikki Martin, George Michael) Why ? Why ? Why? Give me any logic on any level that would explain that. Edited July 13, 2010 by fit
TheLoneSock Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 I've always wondered if it really is truly biological or if it is by choice. I think the real reason for it is actually a bit of both. I think gay people have an innate attraction to the same sex. Attraction is biological and chemical more than anything, and then there is the matter of choosing to pursue it. Some people will say that the attraction is just extreme perversion, I don't know what to think of that - so I choose not to judge. I think over all it's a mix of both biology and choice though.
redmelon Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 lots of ignorant religious people believe lots of ignorant ridiculous things, the issue of homosexuality being a sin and a choice, is merely one of them. there is no proof that it is completely a choice. it is determined through genetic factors in the same way that something like being left-handed is determined. i have read about studies purporting the homosexual brain differs from the heterosexual in specific ways, such as the reaction to pheromones. it seems rather indisputably genetically based. Of course environment can have impact, but impact is not cause.
califnan Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 this is the follow up to my other thread about attending the gay wedding. That thread is out of control so I figured I would start a new one. In case anyone missed it. I am going to the wedding solo. I can handle it. Now onto other topics.. For all of you saying being homosexual is a "choice" and theres no way you could be born that way, is that what you think ? Really ? Reallly ?? Hmm...lets see. Why would you choose to live a life (males I am talking about here) where most of america despises you and you could even get your ass kicked in some places for that choice ? Why make a choice where you can be discriminated at in every arena...work, home, at the mall, at the movies, you name it. Why would you choose to be potentially ostracized from your family ? why would you endure a lifetime of insults and taunts ? Why would you choose to have to hide your dating preferences from many people your whole LIFE ? Why would you, if you chose to try to make it work with a woman, blow up your marriage, career, and kids lives to be with a man ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_McGreevey If you could have fame, fortune and any girl in the world, why would you CHOOSE to be gay ? (Rikki Martin, George Michael) Why ? Why ? Why? Give me any logic on any level that would explain that. --------------------- Why would one 'choose' to do any sin.. Murder, Affair w MM/MW, Abortion (baby murder), Theft, Rape ...... because it feeeeels good. Does God have the last word? I believe so ..
gamma1 Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 For all of you saying being homosexual is a "choice" and theres no way you could be born that way, is that what you think ? Really ? Reallly ?? Hmm...lets see. Why would you choose to live a life (males I am talking about here) where most of america despises you and you could even get your ass kicked in some places for that choice ? Why make a choice where you can be discriminated at in every arena...work, home, at the mall, at the movies, you name it. Why would you choose to be potentially ostracized from your family ? why would you endure a lifetime of insults and taunts ? Why would you choose to have to hide your dating preferences from many people your whole LIFE ? Why would you, if you chose to try to make it work with a woman, blow up your marriage, career, and kids lives to be with a man ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_McGreevey If you could have fame, fortune and any girl in the world, why would you CHOOSE to be gay ? (Rikki Martin, George Michael) Why ? Why ? Why? Give me any logic on any level that would explain that. Well said. Gay people are definitely born that way, or at the very least that way before dating age. I'm a straight male and I've only attracted to women. There's no way I can change who I'm attracted to. The same would of course be true for a gay person.
gamma1 Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 But there is one thing that I have always been confused about. I worked briefly with a rape crisis center. I was always confused by some of the women that were straight before being raped, but afterwards, "decided" that they were gay. I also knew a woman that was straight most of her life, but after leaving an abusive marriage, she "became" (her word, not mine) a lesbian. So can sexual or emotional trauma cause a change in sexual orientation, just as much as one can be born gay? In some families and some parts of the country, it is very difficult to be openly gay, so a lot of people will try to convince themselves that they are straight. After these women went through trauma I'm guessing they didn't want to hide their true self anymore. I doubt these people were ever straight to begin with or they could possibly be bisexual.
redmelon Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 Jthorne: I think it is. There are no time specifications on being attracted to both sexes. Must one necessarily be with a male and female at the same time to be bisexual? Perhaps you would find the attraction was always there at some level (whether conscious or not), and the later blanket decision was based on the trauma.
Author fit Posted July 14, 2010 Author Posted July 14, 2010 --------------------- Why would one 'choose' to do any sin.. Murder, Affair w MM/MW, Abortion (baby murder), Theft, Rape ...... because it feeeeels good. Does God have the last word? I believe so .. Yes all of the things I mentioned feel really gooooooddd. NOT ! Seems like you dont really have any logical answer.
alphamale Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 being "gay" is a genetic mutation not unlike having blue eyes or being tall
califnan Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 Yes all of the things I mentioned feel really gooooooddd. NOT ! Seems like you dont really have any logical answer. ---------------- The action, result, or relief must feel good to the perverted mind of the sinner - that is what drives them to do it . ..
redmelon Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 ---------------- The action, result, or relief must feel good to the perverted mind of the sinner - that is what drives them to do it . .. hilarious! is that from your interpretation of the bible, or a scientific study of sinners?
BellaBellaBella Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 When I was in graduate school there was research showing that men who are gay have larger or smaller then normal hypothalmus's. (can't remember if it is larger or smaller) They are just not normal size. There is also research showing that genetically there is a pattern that shows gay men/women come from the maternal line. For instance, my cousin is gay and on his mother's side there are several gay cousins and even an aunt, on the paternal side no gay men or women. I do believe that these things can be part of it. My dear friend who is gay told while embracing being gay, it is not a choice he would ever make. He doesn't choose to be different. For my part in regards to gay or lesbian people. I feel that as a Christian I have no right to judge either way. As the Jesus says, judge not that ye be judged.
califnan Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 Jthorne: I think that's called bisexuality ------------------- Why nit pick .. It's still sin.
D-Lish Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 No. Not at all. These women wanted nothing to do with men any more. And why would they have to endure a trauma to discover this bisexuality? Doesn't add up. It makes sense that being brutally raped would turn a person's world upside down. A woman is traumatized, dominated, raped by a man, and they make a choice to live without men for the rest of their life. That makes a lot of sense to me. That's a choice related to an event. Being a pre-school aged boy that relates to dolls instead of trucks isn't making a choice, he's doing what feels natural to him; there's a difference between the two situations.
D-Lish Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 ------------------- Why nit pick .. It's still sin. Sin is a religious construction, not a universal belief system. It's meaningless and mundane to those that don't adhere to that particular belief system.
redmelon Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 ------------------- Why nit pick .. It's still sin. this is what is so scary about religious fanatics. Shunning whole groups of people in the name of God? Believing that their specific beliefs and bizarre rituals are right at the exclusion of all others? That is how progression stops. You don't want to progress, you want to control.
califnan Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 Being a pre-school aged boy that relates to dolls instead of trucks isn't making a choice, he's doing what feels natural to him; there's a difference between the two situations. ---------------------- Pre-school: My grandson's uncle is homosexual. I have watched his mother discourage him from playing with her makeup, carrying her purses, liking pink things, always replacing little girl things - with little boy things .. Where I always think he is cute .. I am very proud of his mother for Leading him in the right direction.
Enchanted Girl Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 Let me put it this way. Proving that being homosexual is a choice, doesn't prove that it's a bad thing. And proving that homosexuality isn't a choice, doesn't prove that it's a good thing. Murder isn't bad, for instance, because the person chooses to do it. It's just a bad thing to do in and of itself. Even if the person was predestined to do it. Getting good grades isn't a good thing because people choose to do it. It's just a good thing in and of itself. Even if the person was predestined to do it, that wouldn't change it. Seriously, would your guys' opinions change about these two things if you seriously and truly believed in your heart that every thing humans did were predestined ahead of time? And that they had no say in it whatsoever . . . Just thought I'd throw this out there because I think whether homosexuality is a choice or not is irrelevant when it comes to figuring out whether it is a good thing or not.
Samantha0905 Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 It makes sense that being brutally raped would turn a person's world upside down. A woman is traumatized, dominated, raped by a man, and they make a choice to live without men for the rest of their life. That makes a lot of sense to me. That's a choice related to an event. Being a pre-school aged boy that relates to dolls instead of trucks isn't making a choice, he's doing what feels natural to him; there's a difference between the two situations. I mostly agree with what you said, but I must point out that being a homosexual man doesn't mean you will relate to dolls more than trucks as a young child. My son is homosexual, is not someone whom you would think of as feminine and is someone who most certainly enjoyed Power Rangers, G.I. Joe's, soccer, etc. He wasn't attracted to feminine things. He did not sit around and put on makeup or wish he was a girl. That relates to transgender -- not homosexuality -- although there are some who are both or neither.
Samantha0905 Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 What you're saying simply isn't borne out by facts. You just don't want to acknowledge that you are capable of engaging in homosexual behavior under the right set of circumstances. What? As a heterosexual the right set of circumstances would have to be by force or under the influence of amazingly strong drugs. Just as many people who later identify themselves as "gay" can spend many years in heterosexual relationships. Has it crossed your mind that many times this happens due to societal pressure, scorn, etc. and many (in the past -- less now thank God) didn't come out because they would be shunned? They did what they were "supposed" to do and what they had been taught was the only "right" and "normal" path to take. Who they were was looked down upon, so they didn't come out. They led false lives. It's doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why it is referred to as "coming out of the closet." It was expected to be hidden. It's so sad many of us are so righteous we have for years oppressed homosexuals from being who they really are.
Trojan John Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 When I was in graduate school there was research showing that men who are gay have larger or smaller then normal hypothalmus's. (can't remember if it is larger or smaller) They are just not normal size. Simon LeVay's study found the hypothalamus to be smaller in homosexual men, and that brain anatomy probably influences sexual orientation. There is also documented evidence of homosexuality in some 1500 animal species. Isn't that just sinful?
califnan Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 What in your grandson's uncle's upbringing do you believe might have led him to express his sexuality as a homosexual? ----------------------- Yes. He was Taken from his mother and raised by his grandfather.. I don't know the situation well, but had heard the grandfather abused him.
califnan Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 Simon LeVay's study found the hypothalamus to be smaller in homosexual men, and that brain anatomy probably influences sexual orientation. There is also documented evidence of homosexuality in some 1500 animal species. Isn't that just sinful? ------------------- Probably lines right up from theories that humans evolved from animals ..
SpanksTheMonkey Posted July 14, 2010 Posted July 14, 2010 No. Not at all. These women wanted nothing to do with men any more. And why would they have to endure a trauma to discover this bisexuality? Doesn't add up. I think more then actualy being born a cirtin way these women are useing their bad experiences with men as a deciding factor in there lives. The short of it is this there fed up and think all men are bastards! But insted of becomeing a lonely spinster they choose to eat carpet meh what ever works for them long as their happy! I think there is a differance tho between that and some one who is truly born gay/bi ---------------- The action, result, or relief must feel good to the perverted mind of the sinner - that is what drives them to do it . .. The true Jesus is love/acceptance and forgiveness not intolerance and judgment I don't even go to church and I know that.
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