Author threebyfate Posted July 12, 2010 Author Posted July 12, 2010 I'm not telling men how to be. I've listed off characteristics that aren't attractive to most women. What is attractive to women will be more subjective. I dont know why u think you speak for all women people are different.. genders dont make people exactly the same and look for the same thing in a partner..Requoted for clarity. The above post of mine doesn't equate to your response, if viewed logically or rationally.
Taramere Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 This clarifies things a lot. I'm a lot stronger of a man under your definition than my own and I don't fit your definition of effeminate either. It may be time that I modify my own definitions of these terms. When someone is struggling to get into a relationship and then sees TBF's list it's easy to start thinking they are those things even if it's just a little bit. The negatives can come out and the positives are missed. We are all a combination of many things. Very few people are "100% masculine" or "100% feminine". Most males are towards the masculine side and most females are toward the feminine side, but I'm sure many are somewhere in the middle and some of them are happily married. Are you familiar with Cognitive Behavioural Therapy? It deals with the negative core beliefs people have about themselves. When someone says something negative about you, you react strongly and they say "ha! The truth hurts.." the chances are that it's less a case of the truth hurting, more likely, that they've tapped into a negative core belief you have about yourself that you've maybe had ever since you can remember. A belief that might owe more to your own negative thinking than to actual facts. I think it takes a lot of focus and practice to get out of the habit of reverting to those unhelpful core beliefs. So you look at a list of negative human traits and you think "I'm just about all - if not 100% all - of those things." You react, other people note the reaction and tell you it's because the truth hurts...and the core belief takes even deeper root every time it happens. Having strong emotions isn't a bad thing. I'm very emotional, and to be honest - I love it. Not always, when I'm being emotional in response to a hard situation....but if I'm listening to a piece of music or watching a film that makes me cry, I'm pretty much in my element. I would feel bad for anyone, male or female, who couldn't have that experience. The Nice Guy I mentioned earlier was very lacking in emotion. That was probably one of the reasons he put on such a show (in the early stages at least) of being empathic. A cover up for what was lacking within. I felt sorry for him when we had our break up talk and he disclosed the lack of ability to feel much of anything deep down. Something that had plagued him for his whole life. However, I also felt sorry for myself. The downside of being emotional is that the emotions can strike you inappropriate situations - and at that point in my life (I moved to London soon after the split) they started to strike me anywhere and everywhere. I'd be sitting on public transport, and suddenly tears would start rolling. Total strangers would be patting me on my arm and asking if I was okay. I was a mess, and I realised I was going to have to start getting a grip over my emotions. For a long time, I went overboard with trying to stop myself having any emotions at all, but eventually I learned a balance. Lacking emotion isn't a strength. Having, but controlling emotions is a strength - whether you're male or female. I think when TBF mentions emotional men on her list, she's probably referring to people not having any control over their emotions and being completely dictated to by those emotions - whether sadness, anger, disgust, hatred or an emotional need for someone/something.
Author threebyfate Posted July 12, 2010 Author Posted July 12, 2010 Lacking emotion isn't a strength. Having, but controlling emotions is a strength - whether you're male or female. I think when TBF mentions emotional men on her list, she's probably referring to people not having any control over their emotions and being completely dictated to by those emotions - whether sadness, anger, disgust, hatred or an emotional need for someone/something.Exactly, hence why the word "over" is used. Over-emotionalism.
CLC2008 Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 Are you familiar with Cognitive Behavioural Therapy? It deals with the negative core beliefs people have about themselves. When someone says something negative about you, you react strongly and they say "ha! The truth hurts.." the chances are that it's less a case of the truth hurting, more likely, that they've tapped into a negative core belief you have about yourself that you've maybe had ever since you can remember. A belief that might owe more to your own negative thinking than to actual facts. I think it takes a lot of focus and practice to get out of the habit of reverting to those unhelpful core beliefs. So you look at a list of negative human traits and you think "I'm just about all - if not 100% all - of those things." You react, other people note the reaction and tell you it's because the truth hurts...and the core belief takes even deeper root every time it happens. Having strong emotions isn't a bad thing. I'm very emotional, and to be honest - I love it. Not always, when I'm being emotional in response to a hard situation....but if I'm listening to a piece of music or watching a film that makes me cry, I'm pretty much in my element. I would feel bad for anyone, male or female, who couldn't have that experience. The Nice Guy I mentioned earlier was very lacking in emotion. That was probably one of the reasons he put on such a show (in the early stages at least) of being empathic. A cover up for what was lacking within. I felt sorry for him when we had our break up talk and he disclosed the lack of ability to feel much of anything deep down. Something that had plagued him for his whole life. However, I also felt sorry for myself. The downside of being emotional is that the emotions can strike you inappropriate situations - and at that point in my life (I moved to London soon after the split) they started to strike me anywhere and everywhere. I'd be sitting on public transport, and suddenly tears would start rolling. Total strangers would be patting me on my arm and asking if I was okay. I was a mess, and I realised I was going to have to start getting a grip over my emotions. For a long time, I went overboard with trying to stop myself having any emotions at all, but eventually I learned a balance. Lacking emotion isn't a strength. Having, but controlling emotions is a strength - whether you're male or female. I think when TBF mentions emotional men on her list, she's probably referring to people not having any control over their emotions and being completely dictated to by those emotions - whether sadness, anger, disgust, hatred or an emotional need for someone/something. Well stated Taramere, a very balanced perspective.
Taramere Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 Well stated Taramere, a very balanced perspective. Thanks CLC. I talk a good game, but practising it comes a lot harder.
CLC2008 Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 Thanks CLC. I talk a good game, but practising it comes a lot harder. You're welcome!
mem11363 Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 Based on the historical accounts of his life I mapped Ghandi to this list. He did very well. Originally Posted by threebyfate I'll break it down for you, including the stoicism: Over-emotionalism - NOT Whining. - NOT A lack of initiative. - NOT NOT NOT Irrational thinking. - NOT Mirroring. - Don't know Next in a bitchy rather than shoulder shrugging way. - LOL - NOT Victim attitude. - NOT NOT NOT Disney princess expectations. - LOL - NOT Can't stand fat women but wants to be accepted for all of their flaws. - In the movie his wife was quite curvy Wants to be taken care of and protected. - NOT AND worst of all: Passivity. - NOT Of course. When I think of a real man I think of Ghandi, he is maybe the closet anyone has come to being the poem IF. Was he manly? No. Tough, hell yes. When I think of a real man I also think of Roberto Duran. Mr Machismo, a manly man, hard as nails and a heart of gold, even bigger out of the ring than he was in it. When I think of a real man I also think of average Joe, working hard, looking after his family, accepting his lot, life, keeping his mouth shut, head down and getting on with it. Different types of men, different types of tough, nothing to do with how butch a fella is.
Mr White Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 Having, but controlling emotions is a strength - whether you're male or female. I think when TBF mentions emotional men on her list, she's probably referring to people not having any control over their emotions and being completely dictated to by those emotions - whether sadness, anger, disgust, hatred or an emotional need for someone/something. The delivery of a content/opinion matters just as much as the content. Most people anywhere could learn from your balanced delivery. (But most don't). And the issue goes far beyond the CBT issues you outline, and also boils down to character ==> I've noticed that there is a strong positive correlation between humility and wisdom - both here and IRL. (So, if you're overly opinionated, you're probably a dumbass. It doesn't matter at all what you're saying - saying it in a self-righteous, condescending tone equals begging to be punched in the face. Ask, and you shall receive.) PS
Author threebyfate Posted July 12, 2010 Author Posted July 12, 2010 (So, if you're overly opinionated, you're probably a dumbass. It doesn't matter at all what you're saying - saying it in a self-righteous, condescending tone equals begging to be punched in the face. Ask, and you shall receive.)This is a prime example of the unattractive over-emotionalism that I'm talking about.
PJKino Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 You want these traits in a Man because it makes your life as a women easier nothing more Thats all this is with some women Approach me woo me do all the legwork so i dont have to put myself out here an face rejection Then when we get in a relationship do everyhting in it so i dont have to maake decisons or face any consequences and if u dont ill will question your manhood to force you into becoming this.
MrNate Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 Aren't half the people in here married? If so, why are threads like this being started? It just seems like nothing good is coming out of this. Then again, nothing good comes out of most threads. Why not enjoy time with the spouse and kids instead?
Author threebyfate Posted July 13, 2010 Author Posted July 13, 2010 Aren't half the people in here married? If so, why are threads like this being started?As previously stated, once in awhile I'm in the mood to try to help these guys, hence the thread. It just seems like nothing good is coming out of this. Then again, nothing good comes out of most threads. Do you know this for certain that every...single...person current and future who read this thread, that no good does or can come from it? Why not enjoy time with the spouse and kids instead?Why aren't you out dating and having fun?
Green Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 As previously stated, once in awhile I'm in the mood to try to help these guys, hence the thread. Do you know this for certain that every...single...person current and future who read this thread, that no good does or can come from it? Why aren't you out dating and having fun? You want to help us then stop putting men down every chance you get. My advice to you is lay off.
Author threebyfate Posted July 13, 2010 Author Posted July 13, 2010 You want to help us then stop putting men down every chance you get. My advice to you is lay off.Oversensitivity Green. Your perception is skewed.
Pyro Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 You want to help us then stop putting men down every chance you get. My advice to you is lay off. and you claim that you want to help obese people out by calling them stupid. Just saying.
MrNate Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 As previously stated, once in awhile I'm in the mood to try to help these guys, hence the thread. Do you know this for certain that every...single...person current and future who read this thread, that no good does or can come from it? Why aren't you out dating and having fun? Well, these are all valid points.
MrNate Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 You want to help us then stop putting men down every chance you get. My advice to you is lay off. It's all good bud. In my case, she brings up some good points. I can't speak for others though.
Mr White Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 This is a prime example of the unattractive over-emotionalism that I'm talking about. This is a prime example of being too self-absorbed to even consider the possibility that people are ticked off by the holier-than-thou style of preaching rather than by the bland, unoriginal, uninspiring, and ultimately - profoundly useless "message" .
Hot Carl Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 Hey guys. Does anyone else feel kind of sad when you read this thread or is it just me? Oh well. I'm off to watch Bachelorette. Wish there was some skating or something on. Anything to distract me from these gosh darn cramps! Grrr.... tee hee!
Author threebyfate Posted July 13, 2010 Author Posted July 13, 2010 This is a prime example of being too self-absorbed to even consider the possibility that people are ticked off by the holier-than-thou style of preaching rather than by the bland, unoriginal, uninspiring, and ultimately - profoundly useless "message" .Sam Spade, why do you take everything so personally? Is it because you resemble the list provided and don't wish to change? Over-emotionalism is controllable. I believe Taramere mentioned CBT. Try it. It might or might not help.
Author threebyfate Posted July 13, 2010 Author Posted July 13, 2010 It sure is hot here in California It's actually quite cool right now. Considering that we've had record highs for so many days, it's nice to have cooler weather.
Green Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 It's actually quite cool right now. Considering that we've had record highs for so many days, it's nice to have cooler weather. Maybe he is just a wimp. Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go fart on my gf now and NOT talk about my feelings with her.
Author threebyfate Posted July 13, 2010 Author Posted July 13, 2010 Maybe he is just a wimp. Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go fart on my gf now and NOT talk about my feelings with her.Personal attack again Green. Not cool at all. Is it possible to have a non-emotional convo with you? Can we discuss what are unattractive qualities in some men? Must you view it as misandry when a woman doesn't validate you personally? I call you out when you're either misrepresenting yourself or being irrational. This doesn't equate to hating men.
Shakz Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 Hey guys. Does anyone else feel kind of sad when you read this thread or is it just me? Oh well. I'm off to watch Bachelorette. Wish there was some skating or something on. Anything to distract me from these gosh darn cramps! Grrr.... tee hee! Not sad. Mystified.
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