Pyro Posted July 11, 2010 Posted July 11, 2010 Men don't have good male role models anymore. I have never had a positive role model growing up. My mom cheated on my Dad and my Dad turned out to be a big time liar. I have turned out just fine. Role models are not necessary to become a decent human being. They can't see a world outside their horrible experiences growing up and in relationships so they lash out at an entire gender. Sounds familiar eh?
Pyro Posted July 11, 2010 Posted July 11, 2010 and for those of you who are easily being offended by TBFs thread, the same can be said for females, so quit whining.
Woggle Posted July 11, 2010 Posted July 11, 2010 Some people can rise above anything but good role models play an important part in a person's life. As much as I say I am glad for my upbringing for what it made me when I see my in laws who are very happy I sometimes wish I had that kind of family growing up. I can't remember a happy thanksgiving or christmas before I married her and things like that are a big reason why she is a much more sane and functional person than I am. Seeing them made me realize there was a world outside of what I grew up with.
bac Posted July 11, 2010 Posted July 11, 2010 (edited) : Disney princess expectations.Well said, I think this one is the worst. I mean that some guys behave as they are Disney princesses. They expect treatment as they are princesses. Edited July 11, 2010 by bac
Shakz Posted July 11, 2010 Posted July 11, 2010 I've been diligently following this thread for days now and still have no idea what anyone is talking about. This last installment, princesses and pretty ponies, and what not. What the hell are you people talking about?
Art_Critic Posted July 11, 2010 Posted July 11, 2010 This last installment, princesses and pretty ponies, and what not. What the hell are you people talking about? Toys Shakz.. Toys... One of my sisters had the whole pretty pony set... but then again she is kinda a princess Barbie and Ken are next
Shakz Posted July 11, 2010 Posted July 11, 2010 Toys Shakz.. Toys... One of my sisters had the whole pretty pony set... but then again she is kinda a princess Barbie and Ken are next Thanks, man. THAT CLEARS UP NOTHING! I'm going to take a pill.
CLC2008 Posted July 11, 2010 Posted July 11, 2010 Thanks, man. THAT CLEARS UP NOTHING! I'm going to take a pill. I think it means this:
gamma1 Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 Yes, I think weakness is by definition a negative and is often at the root of abusive behaviour. Probably because I sickened myself of talking about it long ago. I think your definition of weak is somewhat different from mine. As far as muscles go...subtle demonstrations of male strength are appealing, but that doesn't mean men who aren't physically strong are automatically unappealing. It just means that in one particular realm of manliness (eg strength) they're disadvantaged. Some men might compensate successfully for that by cultivating a skinny rock star type demeanour, or the starving artist in the attic look. The kind of image that often draws out women's mothering instincts. My definition of human strength and character is really summed up by the poem If by Rudyard Kipling. The qualities outlined in that poem are about knowing yourself, having faith in yourself - and generally doing the right thing purely as part of being true to yourself, rather than for any rewards doing the right thing might bring you. I think it can apply to women as well as men, but it just so happens that the word "manly" tends often used with regard to strong character. I think, Gamma, that we're all flawed and we all have a tendency to be the things TBF outlined in her list. Especially when we're at a low ebb or short on self confidence. When you read the list, it's a negative list...but many of those negatives could be the result of potentially positive traits being taken to unhealthy extremes. I mentioned coming from a family of physically strong men. Emotionally? Every time he lost a pet dog or cat, my dad would cry. Without exception. He also visits neighbours when they're sick and frail. Will do favours for them - not expecting anything in return, but quite simply because although he has a volatile temper he's a fundamentally good guy who enjoys helping people. When he loses his temper or is in a bad mood, he can be whiny, over emotional and irrational...as can anyone. The good outweighs the bad, however. Like most real life people, he's a combination of the stereotypically masculine (noisy, blustering, physically strong) and the stereotypically feminine (emotional, quite nurturing). I don't think it would be healthy for anyone to read down TBF's list and say "that's me! That defines me, and I'm just fine with that." The list is a negative one. If you think it defines you, then you're either judging yourself too harshly or you have some work to do in order to become a happier and more confident guy. In your post, you've gone on to list some positives...so you see that there's far more to you than what's on TBF's list. What do I mean by effeminate? I suppose I mean somewhat camp gestures which tend to strike me as pretentious and narcissistic. Men who spend a long time staring at themselves in the mirror, preening and fussing around with their hair. I mean I'm guessing that privately a lot of men do, but it's not something I enjoy witnessing. This clarifies things a lot. I'm a lot stronger of a man under your definition than my own and I don't fit your definition of effeminate either. It may be time that I modify my own definitions of these terms. When someone is struggling to get into a relationship and then sees TBF's list it's easy to start thinking they are those things even if it's just a little bit. The negatives can come out and the positives are missed. We are all a combination of many things. Very few people are "100% masculine" or "100% feminine". Most males are towards the masculine side and most females are toward the feminine side, but I'm sure many are somewhere in the middle and some of them are happily married.
bayouboi Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 I'm lol'ing at this post. idk if it's been pointed out already (as this thread's already quite big), but the OP basically says she dislikes "nice guys" because they act like women, then goes on to list the following traits of women that she's referring to. Have any of the female posters in this thread held the OP accountable for labeling all women with this attrocious traits? hahaha I'll break it down for you, including the stoicism: Over-emotionalism.Whining.A lack of initiative.Irrational thinking.Mirroring.Next in a bitchy rather than shoulder shrugging way.Victim attitude.Disney princess expectations.Can't stand fat women but wants to be accepted for all of their flaws.Wants to be taken care of and protected. AND worst of all: Passivity.
Author threebyfate Posted July 12, 2010 Author Posted July 12, 2010 I'm lol'ing at this post. idk if it's been pointed out already (as this thread's already quite big), but the OP basically says she dislikes "nice guys" because they act like women, then goes on to list the following traits of women that she's referring to. Have any of the female posters in this thread held the OP accountable for labeling all women with this attrocious traits? hahahaGo back and read the thread. You're starting from square one and I don't feel like explaining the thread to someone who's too lazy to read it.
Mr White Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2882665&postcount=172 Enchanted Girl is my new hero here. My younger (and smarter) sister in a parallel universe, perhaps?
dispatch3d Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 Swinging too hard in the opposite direction will make you unattractive, hence my reference to PUAs. But why must it be all or nothing? How about some swinging towards a more balanced middle ground? As an example: Victim attitude. Cutting the victim attitude will move someone to the middle ground. True PUAs are very good with women. Guys learning to be PUAs are another thing all together. Usually not calibrated well enough to social situations, not very social, and their inner self esteem doesn't always match what they are doing on the outside. I'd side with the women in this thread. Guys defending nice guys is laughable. Stop defending yourselves, what you're doing isn't working. Trying to trick your way into some girls pants, or sneekily becoming friends with the intention of becoming more is woosy behaviour. If a girl did this to you how would you feel? (pretend you had PLENTY of options). I believe I'm at the point now I can have real female friends. Girls I become legitimately friends with without any intentions of doing more. I have several around and like that fact. They are entertaining in different ways, and require some things guys typically don't.
Crusoe Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 Can an unmanly man be tough? Of course. When I think of a real man I think of Ghandi, he is maybe the closet anyone has come to being the poem IF. Was he manly? No. Tough, hell yes. When I think of a real man I also think of Roberto Duran. Mr Machismo, a manly man, hard as nails and a heart of gold, even bigger out of the ring than he was in it. When I think of a real man I also think of average Joe, working hard, looking after his family, accepting his lot, life, keeping his mouth shut, head down and getting on with it. Different types of men, different types of tough, nothing to do with how butch a fella is.
samspade Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 Men are certainly becoming more effeminate in our culture, and women are certainly becoming more masculine, on average. It's a sad state of affairs. These are the same men and women who complain about their love/sex lives. I don't need to get into details but the notion that all "gender roles" are bad is a failure of modern Western society. The culprit is that American men are slaves to p*$$y. American women know this and use it to their advantage. Who can blame them? Men have given them every opportunity to take the lead and dictate affairs. Except for the smart 10% or so of alpha men who realize they can enjoy a hedonistic lifestyle by pumping-dumping these women. This is America, 2010.
bac Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 The culprit is that American men are slaves to p*$$y. What do you mean? Why are they slaves to p..sy? I thought that both genders are rather slaves to d...k than they are slaves to p..sy?
SteveC80 Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 You want these traits in a Man because it makes your life as a women easier nothing more
sally4sara Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 I think its more a matter of a certain percentage of the population just being stupid and not seeing things in a larger scope. Its not manly to dictate how everything in a relationship should be. So its not manly when a woman does it either. Its just a crappy thing; being a bossy ******* is not manly or feminine. And using people dishonestly and shabbily with the stunted idea that its how one should handle half of our species becoming more self reliant is a great example of the stupidity level some people have that is holding us back. And when I say "us", I mean all of us. Not just men nor just women. Its like going back to 1860 and thinking the best way to deal with the discovery of germs is to burn down Louis Pasteur's lab. More people being self reliant is a good thing. Yeah, it will result in those people expecting to be viewed as deserving the same treatment as any other self reliant person. Being ****ty to them is not an adult response or an intelligent response to that expectation. But those folks can keep it up if they like. Opposition only give the people being opposed something to rise above and excel beyond.
AD1980 Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 (edited) I hate threads like this..Stop it with this bs that Men have to act like this blah blah blah were all humans and all different.. I have balls and a penis thats how i know im a Man..Nobodys gonna tell me im not because they believe you have to act a certian way.. Ive noticed women who are like this are the ones who want to be dominated in a relationship and want their Man to make all the decisions in the relationship and want to be led around like a child.. A women who cant think on her own and doesnt have an opinion of her own and wants the Man to make all the decisions in a relationship including what to do,what to eat everyday is not "feminine" becasue of that there more like a child looking for daddy or an invalid.. Not attractive.. Edited July 12, 2010 by AD1980
Author threebyfate Posted July 12, 2010 Author Posted July 12, 2010 I hate threads like this..Stop it with this bs that Men have to act like this blah blah blah were all humans and all different.. I have balls and a penis thats how i know im a Man..Nobodys gonna tell me im not because they believe you have to act a certian way.. Ive noticed women who are like this are the ones who want to be dominated in a relationship and want their Man to make all the decisions in the relationship and want to be led around like a child.. A women who cant think on her own and doesnt have an opinion of her own and wants the Man to make all the decisions in a relationship including what to do,what to eat everyday is not "feminine" becasue of that there more like a child looking for daddy or an invalid.. Not attractive..No one is telling you how to behave. What's being discussed is how not to be behave. But if you've fully accepted yourself and have no issues with your love life, then it's all good, now isn't it?
AD1980 Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 No one is telling you how to behave. What's being discussed is how not to be behave. But if you've fully accepted yourself and have no issues with your love life, then it's all good, now isn't it? I love myself i think im a good person..Iam not great with women but its not because i dont fit some stereotype of how to act like a Man its becasue of my own hangups.. You want some superhuman robot who never shows emotion or weakness and is in control at all times to offset your insecurites and weaknesses..
Author threebyfate Posted July 12, 2010 Author Posted July 12, 2010 I love myself i think im a great person..Iam not great with women but its not because i dont fit some stereotype of how to act like a Man its becasue of my own hangups.. You want some superhuman robot who never shows emotion or weakness and is in control at all times to offset your insecurites and weaknesses..Ah, so you go to personal attack since you prefer to whine about it, than do anything. Got it! Carry on.
AD1980 Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 Ah, so you go to personal attack since you prefer to whine about it, than do anything. Got it! Carry on. Whine about it? When did i whine? Im responding to your ridicolous post that Men must be this this and this I pray for the guy who has to live up to your insane stadnards while accpeting that thats just the way women are and we have to accept their faults but u cant ours..
Author threebyfate Posted July 12, 2010 Author Posted July 12, 2010 Whine about it? When did i whine? Im responding to your ridicolous post that Men must be this this and this I pray for the guy who has to live up to your insane stadnards while accpeting that thats just the way women are and we have to accept their faults but u cant ours..I'm not telling men how to be. I've listed off characteristics that aren't attractive to most women. What is attractive to women will be more subjective. My husband lives up to and exceeds my expectations for a man, hence why he's my husband. It all comes naturally to him so it's easy for him.
AD1980 Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 I'm not telling men how to be. I've listed off characteristics that aren't attractive to most women. What is attractive to women will be more subjective. My husband lives up to and exceeds my expectations for a man, hence why he's my husband. It all comes naturally to him so it's easy for him. I dont know why u think you speak for all women people are different.. genders dont make people exactly the same and look for the same thing in a partner..
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