Is there any hope? or is it me who is hopeless?

[Cedarman]

Update: Took the girls over on Sunday and had dinner (take out) at my wife's new place. The girls like how I fixed up their room, so that was good - and they seemed comfortable there. My wife seems happy too, saying that she grew up in an apartment.

 

Yesterday, since we're still being flexible my wife wanted to drop the kids off after practice and stay for dinner. I was fine with this, and decided to go out for dinner with some friends while she was here. I texted her when I was coming back, telling her she didn't have to stay (kids are old enough to be on their own for a while) but she was still here when I got home around 9:00pm). I had made a few changes to the house in her absence - put up a few new things, took down our wedding picture that was in our bedroom. Also had moved some stuff into her old office/change room. She was a little upset, saying "I just moved out, I'm not dead". I think she wanted to stay to tuck our youngest in, but they were still doing homework - so I told her she shouldn't stay. She wanted to borrow a hammer to put up picture hangers and I surprised myself by saying "no". So my wife left.

 

I am realizing that even limited contact is going to be tough because of the kids and their activities (both are involved in a sport at a high level - 7 practices a week, plus meets, Plus school activities).

 

So starting to see that NC or Limited contact is not going to work in my favour as I will be seeing my wife and/or exchanging email re kids regularly. How do you give "space" when you contact each other so often? Without space, I don't see any hope for reflection and possible reconciliation. I get the feeling that my wife sees this as the new normal and it suits her just fine.

 

My family is encouraging me to take a couple weeks off and just go on a trip somewhere by myself - something strictly for me where I could get my head straight. They think my wife is getting it too easy. The more I think about this, the more it seems pretty attractive. If the kids are ok in the "new normal" - might wait until winter and go skiing somewhere (in 25 years have only gone on two ski vacations - one before kids, which was fun, and one short one after kids which was a disaster because my wife sulked for the whole time).

 

Anyway, has been a fairly good week - but still can't shake the feeling that I want my wife back, whereas my wife seems to be implementing her dream...

[Cedarman]

Well, a new very weird development and potentially devastating news. I have learned that my wife is having an affair or is about to have one. Nothing confirmed and I won't get into how I found out - other than it was anonymous and the person must have found my name and contact info via the web. The alleged OM is a semi-public figure - I googled him and he is a guy who ran UNsuccessfully for Municipal Council in our city the last election. He has a highly religious background - once ran an evangelical ministry - and he's young - probably younger than my wife (couldn't find his age - tall, good looking in a bland, fake smile kind of way) - and has the web presence of a real do-gooder. I wonder what part about "coveting another man's wife" he doesn't understand? Obviously has rubbed somebody the wrong way - or else my wife has somebody who's ratting her out. Maybe one of her clubbing girlfriends is jealous?? Maybe my wife thinks she's no longer married? Maybe she's just dating and nothing has happened... yet? She did refuse to pledge to NOT date during separation - but we have been physically separated all of FOUR freaking DAYS.

 

Now I don't know what to do with this information. I have no proof other than the email. It's unbelievable - my wife is going to accuse me of being crazy paranoid.

 

Do I confront my wife? Do I contact the POS OM? Do I prepare a divorce filing on grounds of adultery and name names? If it's true, I am going to go FULL public as this guy is highly connected in various Church and Community groups - F!ing Hypocrite. I think he's married too and politically ambitious.

 

It's possible it's a joke too, although given our circumstances - it's not at all funny.

 

I think I have to confront my wife first - and see her reaction. She is a skilled liar though - although I can always tell. She gas lighted me about her EA for two years - trickle truthing the whole affair when I knew there was more to the story. So if true, she is a serial cheater. Wonderful.

 

I am seething angry - but want to get the facts first - so think it's best to confront my wife and/or the POS OM. The thing I am most angry about is that I still love my wife, despite all the pain she's putting me through. Pathetic.

[Cedarman]

Oh, and before anybody else says it - Yes, you all told me so.

 

That's what makes it even more painful. The truth staring me in the face.

 

When we separated and my wife refused to eliminate dating - I asked her to PROMISE to tell me when she's found another man. Stupid, I know. But I said that if she is dating, then after 25 years, she at least owes me some honesty.

 

Yeah, I am hopeless.

[sapientia]

Sorry Cedarman, that stinks. You have every right to feel angry. It will get better.

[Cedarman]

Sorry Cedarman, that stinks. You have every right to feel angry. It will get better.

 

Thanks. But what can I do? I want to expose this, but what about my kids? I can't sleep thinking about it. Do I stay quiet, hire a detective and get evidence for the divorce? Do I confront my wife ASAP? Do I contact the POS OM? They could just deny.

 

Do I ignore it and stay limited contact and just move on? Forget the exposure and the confrontation?

 

Maybe I should get a restraining order on my wife before I confront her - she's liable to try to get the kids involved and on her side.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Cedarman

[sapientia]

Don't do anything while your emotions are up about this. No good decision ever comes from that.

 

Cool off, and then think about each of the possibilities you just mentioned. The pros and cons of each, especially regarding effects on your kids.

 

One thing about ugly behaviour like hers, it *always* comes back to bite them. She'll get hers, no worries, karma is a bitch and a bastard. Remember, your kids will be adults one day, and will be making their own judgements about their parents. I'm not saying to not expose her, but make sure there is sufficient percentage for you to do so. Its not just you and your ex, there are others watching.

[Cedarman]

Now i am thinking about my kids and my wife's access. She was so quick to agree to having them stay with her only every other weekend. How can I trust my kids with a woman who lies and places them at a lower priority than having her private lovenest? What kind of mother puts her family through such turmoil and disruption?

[2sunny]

Thanks. But what can I do? I want to expose this, but what about my kids? I can't sleep thinking about it. Do I stay quiet, hire a detective and get evidence for the divorce? Do I confront my wife ASAP? Do I contact the POS OM? They could just deny.

 

Do I ignore it and stay limited contact and just move on? Forget the exposure and the confrontation?

 

Maybe I should get a restraining order on my wife before I confront her - she's liable to try to get the kids involved and on her side.

 

Stay quiet and collect evidence. Hire a PI. No restraining order yet - you have kids to consider.

 

If you find she's cheating - contact the MM's wife. It may have been her who contacted you...

 

 

Your wife isn't about o admit a thing unless you have solid evidence!

 

Of course she's ready and/ or already cheating - why else would she need to move?

 

Yes, take that vacation - and soon - she needs to stay busy having your kids there every night! And don't tell her where you're going or who with... She has no right to know your private life at his point. The less you tell her - the better off for you! I've told my ex that he forfeited his right to ask me personal questions when we separated. I've never asked him a thing - I don't want to know ny personal details about his cheating ways. He tries to tell me and I remind him he has a new wife to share those things with.

 

Now do you see why we didn't want you helping her set up her live nest? She's got some nerve!

 

She's had her motive a long time - it's usually interest in another person that causes such drastic changes.

 

Stop asking her to promise anything - and know she will lie, lie, lie!

 

I'm sorry for your pain man, it sucks big time.

[2sunny]

Now i am thinking about my kids and my wife's access. She was so quick to agree to having them stay with her only every other weekend. How can I trust my kids with a woman who lies and places them at a lower priority than having her private lovenest? What kind of mother puts her family through such turmoil and disruption?

 

Yep - she probably wants weekends to see men or her man.

 

Tell her you'll take weekdays and she can take every fri-sun.

 

Does she work? How would she have met this new guy?

[Cedarman]

Assuming I get evidence, even if it is heresay evidence, then what?

 

2Sunny: Yes my wife works, but she might of met this guy through her friends, or at a club.

 

I might need a PI to find out if the guy is still married. Both he and his wife have a web presence, but it never mentions they're married except for 2010 or earlier. The more I read about this guy, the sleazier he looks - a Jimmy Swaggert type - none of his charities or foundations look legit.

 

Edit: some web searching and I found out this guy is 37 years old. My wife is 48 (although she looks much younger). But what is my wife thinking? Long term? When he is her current age, she will be almost 60. He's cheating on his current wife - what going to stop him in the future when my wife starts to show her age? She has lost her mind to the fog of a MLC and an affair. I'm extremely angry, upset, and sad and disappointed that a woman I have loved for over 25 years can act so cruelly to me and so stupid for herself.

 

My former wife is gone forever.

Edited October 24, 2012 by Cedarman

[worldgonewrong]

My family is encouraging me to take a couple weeks off and just go on a trip somewhere by myself - something strictly for me where I could get my head straight. They think my wife is getting it too easy.

 

I agree with your parents.

She gets to have it all - new place, support, the illusion that everything is 'ok'. She gets to play 'good mom' while wrecking the family, and her sins are absolved by everyone being quietly complicit. Everyone (in a manner of speaking) is validating her terrible decision by evading the Elephant in The Room (HER and her erratic behavior).

 

Also, I think the idea of her going to IC is going to be a pipe-dream. If she's like 99% of Walk-away Wives, she'll seek out a therapist who will only stroke her ego and reaffirm her poor decision-making.

 

Keep your contact very limited, per the kids.

Also, I think (and I might be alone in this) the idea of 'dinner at mom's' with you present is horrible. It sends weird conflicting messages to the kids.

Your wife is a manipulator. She wants to lay the groundwork for you two being 'friends', so that when she drops the bomb of 'the other guy', she'll innocently say, "What's wrong? I thought our new arrangement was terrific."

If it was me? Eff reconciliation. Her actions show that she's checked out, and the new apartment seals the deal.

[worldgonewrong]

Ugh...dude...I just read further into your thread. I'm so, so, so sorry about your realization about her affair.

 

If I can put one thought in your mind during this devastating time:

you WILL get through this.

Remember - SHE's the oned who is effed-up; NOT you.

Take comfort in your own strength that will get you AND your kids through this mess. As for her, she'll continue to go down her own rabbit hole while you will emerge a stronger guy. I swear it.

[Cedarman]

It would be SO satisfying to expose this in a very public way.

 

But not sure what that would accomplish beyond a rush. I am taking deep breaths and thinking about my kids.

 

How can a "mother" who does stuff like this be a good role model? Yet my kids love their Mom because they have been shielded from all of the lies. And when my wife is with them, she IS a loving mother - it's just that she's not with them very much.

 

I'm thinking the best way to deal with this is to simply confront the POS OM and my wife - doing it quietly and calmly. I will drop the bombshell on my wife in a low speaking voice and gauge her reaction. I think I will send an email simultaneously to the POS OM with a simple message saying "We have something in common. Call me right away". Then when and if he calls, I will put him on speaker phone. I think the key will be to stay calm. I cannot accept the situation, and I especially cannot accept the associated lies. Maybe I will contact his wife too. They can carry on, but they'll have to do it without me. And under no circumstances, is my wife to introduce the POS to my girls. That is forbidden. The guy is scum.

 

BTW, this afternoon, I went to the address of one of his foundations and it was a post office box at a Post Office inside a Pharmacy. Classic.

[2sunny]

Just for the sake of reminding myself - I went back and read through your story again.

 

All her lies! All her cover up! All her gas lighting you!

 

And right there - all along - the younger golf buddy in that first post...

 

She's been cheating a long time - you just kept closing your eyes to her crappy behavior!

 

Go for full custody since she doesn't enjoy being a mom.

 

And get counseling - have you started that yet?

[sapientia]

BTW, this afternoon, I went to the address of one of his foundations and it was a post office box at a Post Office inside a Pharmacy. Classic.

 

See? The guy sounds like a lemon. She'll get hers. Karma.

 

Really, I'd be worried about my kids being around this kind of person. If you are going to investigate someone, it should be this guy. In case you need it for leverage in a custody fight.

[2sunny]

i wouldn't go on holiday.

 

i would make her move out today. you can tell her that she is the one lying... and isn't willing to be honest - she should leave. move money. check that she doesn't take money she shouldn't. closed credit cards. change the locks on the house.

 

get a separation going. have custody going to you - so that she is forced to bring the kids back from her country - and it's legally expected that they live here - with you. she can have visitation.

 

it is HER behavior that has changed your household. SHE is the one to move. she is the one who CAUSED this. that is why things should go this way.

 

she's been cheating a long time... you've just been overlooking it all. start paying attention man!

 

on a side note: no woman would be mad that someone looked at her phone - if she had nothing to hide. people look at my phone all the time - i don't get bothered by it... but i'm not trying to hide anything and i don't lie.

 

start checking who she's hiding her phone messages, email, texts with... i'd bet money it's a golf or work buddy.

 

by kicking her out now - she may get a quick wake up call and start realizing she is the one who messed things up - and that SHE is the only one who can fix that... in case she doesn't - get busy taking care of you.

 

you have evidence that she is not capable of being honest unless she's backed into a corner - how do you propose to find her trustworthy in the future - especially if she doesn't make an effort to earn your trust?

 

When you LET GO of what's dragging you down (her) YOU can feel the freedom from letting go of the baggage that's been selfishly holding you back.

 

I stand by my initial suggestions - and I'm noticing most of these were made back in July!

 

Open your eyes - your wife has been using you for years and playing around right under your nose!

 

And all you kept saying is "it just seems wrong to snoop" - well - you could have known more truth if you'd been willing to find out what was REALLY happening.

 

Hire a PI!

 

I hope you moved money and closed all her credit cards!

 

And change the locks on your home right away!!!

[robf1971]

It would be SO satisfying to expose this in a very public way.

 

But not sure what that would accomplish beyond a rush. I am taking deep breaths and thinking about my kids.

 

How can a "mother" who does stuff like this be a good role model? Yet my kids love their Mom because they have been shielded from all of the lies. And when my wife is with them, she IS a loving mother - it's just that she's not with them very much.

 

I'm thinking the best way to deal with this is to simply confront the POS OM and my wife - doing it quietly and calmly. I will drop the bombshell on my wife in a low speaking voice and gauge her reaction. I think I will send an email simultaneously to the POS OM with a simple message saying "We have something in common. Call me right away". Then when and if he calls, I will put him on speaker phone. I think the key will be to stay calm. I cannot accept the situation, and I especially cannot accept the associated lies. Maybe I will contact his wife too. They can carry on, but they'll have to do it without me. And under no circumstances, is my wife to introduce the POS to my girls. That is forbidden. The guy is scum.

 

BTW, this afternoon, I went to the address of one of his foundations and it was a post office box at a Post Office inside a Pharmacy. Classic.

 

You're wasting your time and breath. Don't bother with OM, your words mean nothing to either your wife or him. They are probably having a good laugh at your expense.

 

The only way to hit this affair where it hurts is to tell his wife. Most men go running back when the threat of a large scale divorce suite or being kicked out and being made homeless. Don't threaten to do this, don't give warnings. Just do it quietly, with no big announcements and sit back!!

[Cedarman]

Update: Since we are still in "flexible mode", I had my youngest daughter and I over at my wife's for dinner. After dinner, when my daughter was in another room, I asked my wife if she had anything she wanted to tell me. "no". I then quietly told her that I know about the "OM". She said "Who? Never heard of him". Then she said "I know of him, but I don't know him". Then when I said that I KNOW she knows him she said "Yes, we've met a couple times, he doesn't even know my last name". THEN, when I said that I know he was over at the condo last night my wife said very angrily "How did you know?". When I asked if they slept together my wife said "None of your business". I left it at that.

 

Later, I contacted the "OM" via email - letting him know, in polite, controlled language what I thought.

 

Here is the interesting thing. In the morning, I received a text, as well as an email, from the "OM" pleading with me to talk. So we did - for about 15 minutes. Of course, everything this guy said COULD be a lie, but I actually believe him because I know the extent to which my wife deceives. He claimed that he met her in the group that goes clubbing - several time over the summer. He viewed her as just a friend. He did NOT know she was married, he did not know she had two kids, and he did not know that she had just moved out four days ago. I believe him. It is JUST like my wife to lie by omission. He also said that they just had dinner - but he left right after. Interestingly - he is in the second year of a separation and he implied that his wife did a similar thing. He said it took him 1 year to repair himself. Anyway at the end of the conversation, he apologized, and said that he would phone my wife, tell her that he thinks she should work on herself, get therapy and that he would not contact her anymore. And he did.

 

NOW the problem is, my wife is majorly pissed off at me. Oh well.

 

She sent me a long email saying that she wants to implement the formal parenting plan and that she does not want any contact between us, except for the kids.

 

I didn't respond, as I had taken the beautiful day as an excuse to get one more round of golf in. Played pretty well but hit some really bad shots when I would think of my situation while over the tee.

 

Finally, on the way home (4 hours later) I responded, saying that I do not want to see her, and that tomorrow (for a kids event) I think she shouldn't go. An angry email back saying that she bought a ticket and that she would go. So I emailed back saying, OK - we will meet you there. Of course my wife had planned to come over to our house to help with my daughter's hair.

I didn't respond to any of her subsequent emails. Finally she sent a final email saying "fine, if you're going to be that way - I won't go".

 

I feel pretty good about the whole day. Tomorrow, I am consulting with a lawyer about next steps - possible filing of a divorce. My wife is nervous because she didn't get a "non-prejudice" letter before she moved out. That's HER problem. NOW, I am not so sure I would sign such a letter anyway.

[sapientia]

Holy cow. Well, you 'got' her. Nice.

 

But, in case it needs saying, you've just exposed her for a dumb, lying, cheater. Many women can't handle criticism and 'think' with their emotions, especially when the criticism is correct and disrupts the fantasy image she has of herself. She probably thought in some twisted way what she was doing was okay and was being clever about it.

 

NOW the gloves will be off. She's going to be out for your blood, even though you are clearly in the right. Your kids feelings, and yours, didn't matter before so now... just be careful. This ride is going to get ugly I think unless you can act quickly. Good luck.

[2sunny]

Seems her lies and sense of entitlement just seems to keep growing.

 

She lies! I'd expect that her OM lies too - I wouldn't believe a word he says.

 

He had dinner and left - :lmao:

 

He played dumb because it made HIM look more innocent in this whole mess.

 

Bottom line is - your W had an agenda - a motive - when she decided to move. And it didn't include you or your feelings...or your kids feelings.

 

 

Expect more crap from her - unless you can be sure and keep her at a safe distance while she amps up her dating scene.

 

How'd you find out about him being there last night - did you hire that PI?

 

Is it the same guy you got the tip about... Or is she juggling several men?

[Cedarman]

Yes, agreed. It is obvious that my wife had an agenda when she moved out which had nothing to do with any feelings for our children. Eg: We have been over twice for dinner and she did not cook either time. For her "date", she cooked. Yes, it is the same guy who I got tipped off about (still don't know by whom, but am beginning to think that one of her clubbing friends actually has a conscience and is concerned about the slow train wreck of my wife). I didn't hire a PI, but bluffed to my wife that I did to get her to admit some of the truth. I knew she was lying.

 

I had a good heart to heart with this guy. I actually believe him when he said he had no idea that my wife was still married and attached with two kids (I am sure my wife hid the pictures). I didn't ask, but i am sure he had no idea she is 48, since she looks 10 years younger. Everything he said fits the pattern of my wife's behaviour and the way she has created a fantasy dual life, where even her so called friends are being deceived. He was scared - he was looking to possibly date her, but SHE was way ahead of this - almost psycho. When he learned the truth, he groaned and said he wanted no part in the breakup of a family or a rebound relationship. Yeah, he could be lying, but I believed him. It makes me MORE concerned about the mental state of a woman who will be looking after our children and influencing them. I am thankful that I did not sign anything absolving my wife for abandoning her family. My wife wants me to sign something now, but I won't. I have no plan about cutting my kids off from their mother, because they love their mother, but at the same time, I am concerned about her ability to make decisions in their best interests while she is in her current fog. And maybe it's not right to call it a "fog". My old wife and everything I loved about her is gone. Probably forever.

 

And of course, the MOST maddening part is I am STILL thinking in terms of her eventually realizing her mistake and emerging from her fog. I need to give up on this pathetic, false hope and move on, but seem incapable of doing it. So there's something wrong with ME that I still have feelings for my wife. I guess I have feelings for the memory of my wife and what she used to be. Hard to let go of those memories....

Edited October 26, 2012 by Cedarman

[MsOptimist]

Wow, I'm glad you caught her in her deceitful ways. I tend to believe the OM too based on what he said his situation was and what he said to you - and the fact that he called out your wife on it after you contacted him says a lot. I bet my husband would reel someone in in the same way as your wife did - makes me sick. They can't hide things forever, especially when you have kids involved.

[Cedarman]

Well, another sad revelation.

 

Today, after pressing a little bit (we were talking about divorce on the grounds of adultery - and that you need proof), my wife looked a little funny. So I pressed her about whether she has ever been physically unfaithful. She paused, and then nodded.

 

It turns out that the EA which I wrote about at the beginning of this thread was actually a FULL BLOWN affair. Summer 2009, lasting for FOUR MONTHS. FIrst attracted to the guy 4 or 5 years ago. She claims that I would take my girls to the cottage, leaving her all by herself - so she blames me for the affair. I guess I shouldn't have trusted her.

 

And my wife says that she doesn't regret the affair - that our marriage was already in trouble and that it made her feel good and that the sex was a "a change" and "fun".

 

Our marriage was salvageable back then. I know this for sure. And even with her affair, it would be salvageable IF she had told me right away or even 2 or 3 years ago. Instead, she kept this secret, drifted away from me to protect this secret and has basically lied for the past 4 years.

 

Oddly, I am not angry, since I have been angry off and on for 3 years. In fact, I feel almost a relief now that I know the truth.

 

Anyway, this marriage is over. Trouble is.... man, my wife looked hot as she was confessing this! Is that sick, crazy or what? I hate the image of her having sex with somebody else - but I still find her incredibly attractive.

 

 

Definitely need help....

[2sunny]

Get tested for std's!

 

And get counseling! You need help with sorting through who your W is - as opposed to who your mind THOUGHT she WAS.

 

 

She seems to have no conscience.

 

And don't let her blame YOU for her cheating - that's just wrong!

[sapientia]

Final nail in the coffin. I am so sorry for your pain, Cedar. But at least now you know and you can truly move forward.

 

And what a b-itch for trying to pin her cheating on you. Don't think, even for a microsecond that 'if only I had, X, Y, Z' maybe she wouldn't have.... Cheating is a choice she made instead of working on things or ending things. You can't fix selfish and lack of respect (for herself as much as you and your family).