Is there any hope? or is it me who is hopeless?

[Cedarman]

Also - we're telling the kids tomorrow. So I asked my wife what she plans on telling the kids so that we can coordinate. Here is the official story: We cannot get along, so we are splitting - nothing to do with the kids who we BOTH love.

 

Here is the truth which will remain hidden: My wife loves the kids, just not as much as she loves her "freedom". She stopped loving their Dad and wants to start a new life where she only has to be a Mom on a part-time basis with no guilt for her off weeks.

 

It's a crazy life where a person like my wife gets exactly what she wants with NO repercussions and leaves a human debris field in her wake.

 

If the stuff about karma is true, she is in for one heck of a ride down. But I suspect that she will get exactly what she wants and she won't think for another second about the casualties....

[Cedarman]

Ok, sorry was venting in my last two posts.

 

We told our kids tonight. Very stressful. Our 14 year old was pretty calm about it. Our 11 year old was very, very upset. Then angry, at both of us.

 

My wife is going to show them her condo tomorrow. You know, she never even considered how they would like her condo - for the price she is paying, she could have rented a small house in our neighborhood - but it wouldn't have all the bells and whistles. Anyway, hopefully my daughters will like and be comfortable over there every other weekend.

 

When we were telling our kids all I could think about was how much I hate what my wife is doing to our family.

[robf1971]

I can almost guarantee that my wife will not get lonely. She has her divorced friends - who are probably waiting to throw her a celebration party..

 

They all do, but are usually pretty superficial in nature. The problem with that is that she'll be all over you when she wants something.

[Cedarman]

Well, I have been taking the high road and helping her move and it's tough. Have to say that the condo she chose is nice - the furnishings are a little old-fashioned, not mine or her style, but it's in a great location, for her. The kid's bedroom is very small, with no privacy - so not sure how they will like it. But I am guessing that for the weekend, it willl be fine - like staying in a hotel for them.

 

It's tough because it's really hitting home that we're splitting. And seeing her place, particularly the bedroom is tough. It's HER place - I will not know anything that goes on in there, but I can't help thinking about it. Man, it's pathetic - I just cannot let go. Anyway, she will be moved out by tomorrow or Thursday and then we start our separate lives. She still claims to be looking at this as a "trial" separation. But something inside me thinks it will be permanent. She's a condo-type person, just lock the door and everything else is taken care of. She'll probably be happier in there, seeing the kids part-time probably won't be an issue. So can't really see her coming back, realistically.

 

So I know that I have to move on, the question is, how? Doing the 180 and NC is tough with the kids and the interacting re-schedules. And I'm really realizing that I am still hopelessly in love with her, or addicted and that I am really losing her when she moves out tomorrow or the next day.

 

Guess I'm going to have to take it one day at a time.

[Cedarman]

Cedarman, you`re doing ok

 

Helping her move was a really good thing.. i would of done the same

 

yeah it is now time to think of you

one day at a time

coops

 

It was tough, but the right thing to do. Unfortunately no good deed goes unpunished.

 

More BS: My wife picked up my girls from after-school swim practice and normallly they should be home by 7:00. Dinner is ready. It's past 7:30 and I finally texted my eldest daughter to see where they are. They are seeing my wife's condo and will be back "soon". My wife didn't even have the courtesy to tell me this, saying before that she would take them AFTER dinner.

 

We're not even separated and already my wife's thoughtlessness is screwing with my head.

 

Man, this sucks.

[worldgonewrong]

Well, I have been taking the high road and helping her move and it's tough.

 

You shouldn't have done this.

Particularly if you helped her move a bed with which she's going to sleep in with another man. That's humiliating.

[2sunny]

Stop being her doormat!

 

No cooking for her. No helping her move.

 

She wants out - let her start figuring it out by HERSELF!

 

And contact your kids directly. Any communication with the W should be only to CHANGE an agreed upon schedule. To which you only need to answer her with yes or no!

 

Don't hesitate to start telling her NO!

[Cedarman]

You shouldn't have done this.

Particularly if you helped her move a bed with which she's going to sleep in with another man. That's humiliating.

 

Well, the alternative was to refuse all help and then I wouldn't have even been able to see if the place is suitable for my kids. I am just trying to do the right thing - which is how I have tried to handle the whole deal here.

 

Meanwhile, when my wife and kids got home, my youngest daughter was crying because the whole situation (seeing the condo really struck a nerve) is happening too quickly for her. I have to put on a brave face for my kids, and that means helping my wife as if the move is not such a drastic thing.

[standtall]

Well, the alternative was to refuse all help and then I wouldn't have even been able to see if the place is suitable for my kids. I am just trying to do the right thing - which is how I have tried to handle the whole deal here.

 

.

 

 

 

Keep telling yourself that, and you just might start to believe it. What do you mean suitable? What if it wasn't? There is nothing you could do about it anyway. WGW and 2snunny are entirely right..stop being her doormat. I know it sounds harsh, but she is going to walk all over you because she can..because you allow it.

[worldgonewrong]

Well, the alternative was to refuse all help and then I wouldn't have even been able to see if the place is suitable for my kids. I am just trying to do the right thing - which is how I have tried to handle the whole deal here.

 

Meanwhile, when my wife and kids got home, my youngest daughter was crying because the whole situation (seeing the condo really struck a nerve) is happening too quickly for her. I have to put on a brave face for my kids, and that means helping my wife as if the move is not such a drastic thing.

 

Look, I completely understand your thinking. You're an upstanding fellow, and you're aware of the sensitivities at play here.

That said, you can't carry the whole bag.

I think you can STILL "put on a brave face for [the] kids" without having to aid & abet her wandering lifestyle. If you don't draw certain boundaries, she's just going to continue her parasitic treatment of you and, by extension, the kids.

[worldgonewrong]

Meant to add - the lesson you're imparting here - to her and the kids - is that bad behavior gets rewarded with...a new condo AND free moving help.

Bad, bad, bad.

In time, you will become angry for having been taken for a fool. Trust me - I know from experience.

[Cedarman]

My kids don't know much of anything about their mom's bad behaviour. What possible good would it do for them to know? All they know is that we cannot get along, but that we both love them. That is all I want them to know. When they're older, they'll be able to figure it out themselves - they're smart kids. But me badmouthing their Mom is just not going to happen.

 

So again, the alternative (i.e. not helping my wife and telling her to GFY) would not really help anything either. Even the fleeting moment of feeling good about refusing any help wouldn't last. Besides, I have been married to her for 25 years - and always handled stuff - it's a hard habit to break. But I'll be breaking it cold turkey when she's out.

Edited October 18, 2012 by Cedarman

[standtall]

But me badmouthing their Mom is just not going to happen.

 

So again, the alternative (i.e. not helping my wife and telling her to GFY) would not really help anything either. Even the fleeting moment of feeling good about refusing any help wouldn't last. Besides, I have been married to her for 25 years - and always handled stuff - it's a hard habit to break. But I'll be breaking it cold turkey when she's out.

 

No one said anything about bad mouthing her..of course you should not do that in their presence...but you don't have to help her either. Actually that would be a good lesson to her and your children..the consequences of actions

[Cedarman]

The only lesson my kids would learn is that Daddy and Mommy are fighting again and Mommy is leaving. And what is the point, now, of teaching my wife a lesson? I don't see the value in that. It's a lose lose proposition anyway you look at it. It would just prolong the move out if she had to do it on her own. I need my space as much as she needs hers.

[2sunny]

The only lesson my kids would learn is that Daddy and Mommy are fighting again and Mommy is leaving. And what is the point, now, of teaching my wife a lesson? I don't see the value in that. It's a lose lose proposition anyway you look at it. It would just prolong the move out if she had to do it on her own. I need my space as much as she needs hers.

 

No they wouldn't.

 

Tell them Mom chooses to move... That's stuff she now has to LEARN to handle on her own.

 

No argument! No words...expect maybe one word = NO.

 

Oh honey would you help me move my big yummy bed into my new condo - the bed I'm planning to screw my new stud with...would ya help poor little old me?

 

No....

 

It's as simple as that.

 

If she asks why not - simply say "didn't you hear my answer?" "The answer is no"

[Cedarman]

All good, sincere advice and I do appreciate it. But everybody is different. For me, this is the best way to let go. My wife will be finally out of the house on Saturday evening (our mediator suggested waiting until the weekend, for the kids). And then it will be minimal or no contact - except for issues around the kids. I am prepared for this. I am prepared for a few weeks of uncertainty on both sides because the kids are going to want to have a mixed schedule for a while. The focus is on the kids. And it is not important to me that the kids know who's at fault for this. For THEIR sake, it is better that we appear amicable - there is no gain to be petty or vindictive about this move for anybody except me. There's no gain in saying "Mommy chose to move" - they can figure that out for themselves.

 

As for my wife having sex with another man - yeah, that's rough and hard to deal with. Imagination runs wild. But she was a virgin when we married whereas I had a pretty healthy dating life prior to getting married. Our sex life was intense for about 20 years, and even during the rough years, the sex (when it happened) was still good from a physical standpoint - for both of us. Even my wife admits this. The fact is, my wife as well as any other healthy woman is a sexual creature, just like men. And in reviewing all of my past - I realize that from a pure sex standpoint, my wife wasn't the best - pretty conservative in bed and I always had to lead (of course I am comparing her to my university days - so not really a fair comparison). Kind of an "I taught her everything she knows" situation. But when we were in love - it seemed like the best. Also - not to get too graphic, but I was always a little large for her and I made sure to be sensitive to that. So she's going to have to find somebody smaller (haha) or equally considerate - or she's in for some pain!!

 

I know that I am "good in bed", so if she finds somebody who's better and fulfills her needs - there's not much I can do about it, but move on. I'm still physically in good shape - cycle a lot in summer, golf, still ski hard in the winter (raced through University). Once I get my mental state in the right shape - I am confident that I WILL be able to move on.

 

But thanks for the advice - I take it in good spirits and really appreciate the support and different ideas on this forum. Really helps to get a raw reality check as I work through this, making mistakes and all.

 

Certainly is a wild and crazy rollercoaster....

Edited October 18, 2012 by Cedarman
typos

[worldgonewrong]

Cedarman- You sound like you have your head on straight for the most part, despite the obvious trauma of the situation.

 

Just an aside thought (and maybe I'm wrong) - if your wife is like mine, it sounds like she never heard the word "No" come from your mouth a lot during the entire marriage. It created an imbalance, and certainly a sense of entitlement on her part. If you can correct that, bit by bit, it will help. Might not restore the marriage, but it will create a sense of equilibrium in you that you can take forward into a possible next relationship.

[Cedarman]

Just an aside thought (and maybe I'm wrong) - if your wife is like mine, it sounds like she never heard the word "No" come from your mouth a lot during the entire marriage. It created an imbalance, and certainly a sense of entitlement on her part. If you can correct that, bit by bit, it will help. Might not restore the marriage, but it will create a sense of equilibrium in you that you can take forward into a possible next relationship.

 

 

You're right. My wife has always been high maintenance - I never really minded because things were good for so long and she would always make up for things in her own way. But when she stopped trying, I kept giving - which in hindsight was a big mistake.

 

But I am not going to stop now because the reality is, this marriage is 99% over. It's too late to do anything - so I am going into the separation being the same as always - and if my wife doesn't appreciate it, it is her loss. If she does, then there is a 1% chance we could try reconciling - again, but on my terms. I'm not holding my breath.

 

But you're right that my next relationship should have a better sense of equilibrium - will be trying to get my head straight so that I don't head into a bad situation on the rebound from this.

[2sunny]

Are you actively doing counseling? If so, what are YOU working on with the counselor? Be specific.

[Cedarman]

Are you actively doing counseling? If so, what are YOU working on with the counselor? Be specific.

 

No, not yet. Waiting for a referral from our mediator as well as a referral when I see my family Doctor next week. I'll see a couple and go with the one that clicks. My wife is starting her IC next week - I will probably start the following week. Not sure what we'll be working on, I want to get to a space where I can move on. The funny thing is, there was a time fairly early on in our marriage where I had the same feelings my wife is having right now - but I didn't act upon these feelings. I worked on committing to the marriage and THIS is the result. So, there is a lot to talk about.

 

Also want to explore whether my feelings are more basic human nature in the sense that you start to desperately want something you can no longer have. Maybe I'm addicted to my wife?

 

Will be interesting...

[Cedarman]

Well, after all the talk of waiting for Saturday "for the kids", my wife just left. We had a discussion about the separation and she didn't like what I was saying, so in a bit of a snit she said "I'm ready" and left. (This is typical behaviour for my wife.) I said "Well, I wish you good luck - I hope you find whatever it is you're searching for and that it's worth it to you".

 

Right now I feel a big sense of relief. My youngest daughter is in the basement with a friend and I can hear their laughter. My wife had the "good sense" to leave without saying goodbye and creating a scene. She will see them on Sunday anyway. My oldest daughter will be home in about 30 minutes. I think I'll have a sit down talk with them before bedtime.

 

I'm sure it will hit me like a ton of bricks later, but right now I feel REAL good. I'm going to enjoy the feeling while it lasts - with no illusions that I'm going to be OK in the morning.

[Cedarman]

Its not just her loss, its your children's too. IMO you are still tied to the past, what you did/what she did. If you really want to reconcile you have to want to *both* move forward together. But your 'my way or the highway' isn't going to repair your marriage, that's certain.

 

She needs to come to the same conclusion, btw.

 

Well, when I said the same way as always it was taking the high road and helping her with the move and setting up/fixing up her condo, as opposed to telling her to do it all herself. Hardly "my way or the highway". One day, she might appreciate it. Or maybe not. Either way, I know I did everything I could.

[Cedarman]

Sapientia - I hear you, and agree that any reconciliation will require change on both sides. Just think you may have misinterpreted my "same as always" statement.

 

 

Anyway, I am trying to do limited contact (NC is impossible because of the kids). Not calling, not texting, not emailing. Trying consciously to NOT think about her as much as possible. But for the next two weeks we had agreed to be flexible so that the kids get used to the new situation. Eg - tomorrow, we had already agreed that my wife would take the kids to do some shopping. Next Friday, there is a banquet (for a club our kids belong to) that we are both attending. So today, my wife sends me a long email which ended with an invitation for the kids and I to go to her place for dinner tomorrow night after she drops the kids off at my place in the afternoon. She's even suggesting that she will cook something - which for my wife (an order in kind of person) is kind of special.

 

I've been feeling good since she left last night, and now I'm wondering if I am truly hooked to her pheromones or something because I feel much better than I have all week when she was around the house. Thinking of declining the invitation or just dropping the kids off (since they would want to go) and letting her bring them back. Wondering if seeing her would send me down the roller coaster?

[Cedarman]

Our mediator suggested the flexible routine for the first couple of weeks as we work towards the more formal schedule. She said the kids will show us what works for them by their actions. It's hard for me to play the "Happy family" routine which is why I am not sure if I should go for dinner. The kids will be with me more than their Mom and it won't do them any good if I am unable to move on. So there are a lot of conflicting issues at play here.

 

My oldest daughter is fine, a typical teenager - more concerned with her own life and friends - at least that is the impression she gives. My youngest daughter is taking this pretty hard though. Tonight I had her to myself (oldest daughter was at her best friend's house for a sleepover) and she seems so sad (usually she and I joke and tease each a lot). When I say something she would normally laugh at she just shrugs. I don't want to mislead her that things will work out, but hopping immediately into the formal routine would be very tough on her. Our formal routine isn't cast in stone either. If my girls want to spend more nights at my wife's place, I am ok with that.

 

Meanwhile, I had a rough night - haven't been able to sleep since tucking my daughter in, so watched tv all night. Not good.

[paradigm shift]

I think you are on the right track Cedarman, and I think that questioning whether being together is something you want or something you are just used to is a step on the path to a solid future. I know I waffle in my head every single day; do I want him back because I love him or do I want him back because this is how it is supposed to be? Or is it both or neither?

 

Keep it up with your girls, and everyone is right, stability and routine are kids' best friends.

 

Thinking of you guys