Cedarman Posted July 10, 2010 Posted July 10, 2010 Apologies for this long first post: I've been married for 23 years, with two young kids (both still in grade school). My wife and I met overseas (at a conference) and she immigrated to shortly before we got married. She was quite young (23) when we married (I'm five year's older). We spent the first 10 years of marriage just the two of us before deciding to have kids. We were very close and truly best friends and lovers. Things were not always great - my wife was always very needy and emotionally demanding - when we had arguments she would fall back on the sacrifice she made (leaving family and friends to come to here, etc, etc) - working on my guilt feelings. I hung out with my friends less as a result. She even made me feel guilty for spending time with my family since her's were not in the country. I made several career sacrifices because she really needed me to be around a lot - giving up career paths which would have required too much time away from home (if I worked late she would think I was having an affair). At the same time, I fully supported her development - doing everything I could to support her budding career as well as outside interests (eg - introducing her to golf). Eventually, her career started to take off, while mine languished (although I still have what most would consider a very good job, my wife makes more money). I have to admit that I felt some resentment because I have always blamed her for my abandoning a fast career track. Still, I was mostly happy and I believe she was too. It was a trade-off I made willingly. After our first child was born, my wife had mild post-partum depression, and I had to be extra supportive during the first two years. When our second was born, my wife seemed much better, but really doted upon our second daughter, while virtually ignoring our first. I loved being a father and gave up my golf membership because I truly wanted to be with the family on weekend mornings rather than at the course. Meanwhile, my wife (who had grown to love golf) started to play more and I was happy to see her get active again. Over the years, during the summer, I would typically take our kids to the cottage on many weekends, while my wife (who didn't like the cottage) would stay in the city to play golf (taking over MY membership). Our biggest argument came as a result of a trip she took with two former golf buddies of mine on a daytrip to an out of town course to play without telling me (I had taken the kids for a long weekend and she was supposedly working a half day and would join us on the Saturday). This was the first broken trust in our marriage. While I know there was nothing besides golf going on, I have never been able to get past this lie. She claims it was simply a lie of omission - she told me she was playing golf, just not where and with whom. This was about 8 years ago. Since then, we've had a roller coaster relationship. Arguments have usually revolved around my wife doing something which she considers innocent (golfing all weekend, going out clubbing with friends) while I did things with the kids. During our arguments I say things which have hurt her (calling her selfish and self-centered) and I regret the damage this has caused. Again, I truly believe in my heart that nothing funny is going on, but I can't get past my broken trust in her. There's no appreciation for my chosen role either. eg - My wife has always rationalized my giving up golf by saying I simply liked going to the cottage more (as if the kids were merely passengers on MY ride). Golf - which was a passion we once shared together became something we did totally separately. When we do play (and I beat her) she'll say I take it too seriously, when she beats me, the kids hear how she's a "better" player than me. It wasn't the cause of our problems, merely a symptom. Flash forward to now - Over the past two years, she's had plastic surgery (breast augmentation) and spends literally hours each day on her appearance. She looks great (as always), but I thought she was beautiful before the fake breasts and the fake eyelashes. But it's almost like she wants to change her complete life including how she looks. Classic mid-life crisis. My wife has found a new set of girlfriends who like to go out clubbing. I'm never invited to go along (even just for a quick after-work drink), and sometimes my wife is out until 2 or 3 in the morning. She's taken to closing her door when using the computer and does all her communicating with friends via Blackberry messenger. My wife has basically told me that she's no longer in love with me yet doesn't want to move out because of the kids (and because she has never lived on her own and is probably scared). NOW I'm wondering if there is somebody else. The problem is, I still love her (she has many good qualities which outweigh her bad). But I've taken stock of my life and I've realized (late) that I've isolated myself - I have no life outside of work and family - losing touch with many friends in what seems like a flash (but was really over a decade). My kids have filled the void, but they're getting to be teenagers and I have to face reality. I'm feeling old and foolish for not thinking about ME enough. I'm really wondering if I can somehow save this marriage and re-kindle the type of relationship which we had pre-kids? Or is this a pipe dream? Or is my "love" is really just neediness on my part, or just a physical attraction? I can't really imagine my life without my wife - but it's obvious that she does nothing BUT imagine her life without me. How pathetic is that?
Gunny376 Posted July 10, 2010 Posted July 10, 2010 Its been my general experience over the last 53 years that once a woman starts acting differently than initially when you meet her, starts dressing "more attractively" get breast enhancements? There's someone else ~ or she's trolling for someone else. Based upon my experiences in Life, and much reading on the subject of marriage, relationships, men and women ~ I'd come down hard on her! Have her served with divorce papers, have her evicted legally from the home, (Claim domestic violence ~ she threatened you with a steak knife? Women do it all of the time) Get an RO (Restraining Order) against her and limited supervised visitation. And don't feel guilty about doing it? Women use these ploys all the time. Document, document, document ~ even start a journal about who, what, when where, she's done ~ you've done ~ how much time you spend with the children (an she doesn't) start lining up you witness (neighbors, friends, family) about what's going on. You might want to install a "key-logger" on the home computer ~ or her laptop, and/or a GPS tracker. There's also this sight from GB ~ http://www.spysupermarket.co.uk/home.html And there's also equipment from Cheaters.com. Personally if I were to even suspect such as having to purchase such to validate my SO cheating on me? That would be enough for me to kick her to the curb. Too many Good women out there looking for just ONE good man to waste your time on a bad one! What one will abuse? Another can certainly use! If crying couldn't make her stay? It sure as Hell as want make her come back! I've learned a lot of things over the years and one of those is that I, myself, alone am responsible for my own personal happiness and contentment in and with life. People come? And People go? There's no one monkey that makes a show! My XHEX wanted everything from a twelve year marriage, child support, claiming the two children as dependents for federal and state taxes, even wanted me to pay for all the martial bills to include her car payment. Not a problem! She put in the divorce decree that she waived any rights to my military retirement (which in Alabama at the time she wasn't entitled to anyway ~ it was a ploy be her dumb-@zz attorney to get me to sign.) I signed it all off to her ~ my reasoning was that as a career Marine (Sixteen years in) and just back from the First Gulf War I had zero chance of getting custody of my children (Had I know then what I know know) Besides, no matter what you buy? You've got to replace it about every ten years anyway? I've read a lot of books, and search the Internet about divorce and such? And it comes down to this: Identify your own self weakness and seek self improvement ~ aka ~ work on being the best "you" that you can become and be! And do that for yourself and no one else! (If your an @zzhole? Admit it, accept! Validate it) Take complete and absolute responsibility for your own happiness and do not seek such in others. Nor validation from such. Expect nothing from others. Give all you can give to them ~ but expect nothing from them. Not your family, your friends, your wife, your husband, your lover, your children. You need to work on becoming self-autonomous 1
Gunny376 Posted July 10, 2010 Posted July 10, 2010 Just for clarification? The XHEX got everything from a twelve year marriage? But she also signed off on about a million dollars worth or retirement income, commissary priviledges (30% less of name brand groceries than at WaLMart ~ with no sales tax, , PX Priviliges, {No sales tax} Space ~ A ( I can jump a military aircraft going anywhere in the world for about $10). My medcial premium per month is about $20 with a co-pay per doctor visit being $12 I pay nothing out of pocket for medical nor dental. The car is paid off and only has 28K on her. I bought her new for less $10,000 than she was listed for. (I once was a car salesman for six months, and went the last sales day of the year to buy a 2003 when they had 2004's on the lot? She listed for $26K ~ I got her for $17K Point being? Get your life straight! 1
Author Cedarman Posted July 10, 2010 Author Posted July 10, 2010 Thanks for the advice Gunny. I don't think I could spy on my wife. Besides which, I've already learned that she's capable of lying so the question really is whether this type of problem is recoverable. Learning more lies wouldn't help. The thing is, I always viewed her as the most honest person I know and now I now better - I would really love to be able to get back to situation where we're open and completely honest with each other. Just don't know if this is possible. She IS a good mother when she puts in the time and effort - but at the same time she seems to resent being a mother - saying many times that it was more MY idea to have kids than her. She doesn't seem to enjoy her role as a "mother". When i speak with my wife, her answer is that the damage has been done - putting the blame on me for my criticisms when we argue (a bad habit of mine). I really think she has self-esteem problems and observations that would roll off other people seem to really stick to her. It also might explain her obsession with her looks and wanting to change (even though she is naturally quite gorgeous.) She's afraid of getting old and is in denial. Compounding matters is that her life experiences before marriage were limited - never living by herself, very straight, not a hard partier. I had a more wild high school/university experience - been there done that. So maybe it's a phase for her - like a delayed adolescence? Anyway, we're trying a "date" tonight and we'll see how that goes. Lately she always seems to be biding her time with me, anxious to get back to her "new life" - but we'll see. 1
spriggig Posted July 10, 2010 Posted July 10, 2010 Or is my "love" is really just neediness on my part, or just a physical attraction? I can't really imagine my life without my wife - but it's obvious that she does nothing BUT imagine her life without me. How pathetic is that? I think you're answering your own question here. Also to your comment that knowing more lies won't help. You need to figure out the real reason you don't want to know. Try to look at this statement from the outside and see how strange it is that a husband doesn't want to know if his wife is possibly cheating. Saying "it won't help" is a defense of denial, not a reason. It sounds like this marriage was over years ago. Boob job, clubbing with new (I'm guessing younger, single) girlfriends and hiding the computer use is all indicative of a woman on the prowl. I also suspect she is experiencing a mid-life crisis. She might be visiting dating sites on the computer but not yet in an affair. Can you save this marriage? Not alone. 1
imagine Posted July 10, 2010 Posted July 10, 2010 A married couple should spend a minimum of fifteen hours together. Right now you guys probably need twice this amount. To make this time more enjoyable you need to learn how to meet each others emotional requirements. Make a list of your problems to her and come up with an agreement. Do not disagree with her proposals. Work through them. The children are a joint enterprise, they are dependent on both mom and dad. An agreement to have them means taking on all the responsibilities of a parent.
Author Cedarman Posted July 11, 2010 Author Posted July 11, 2010 Well, against my better judgement, yesterday I tried to get into my wife's blackberry and after one try, my conscience go the better of me. Problem is, this morning my wife saw that somebody had tried to enter an incorrect password and she's extremely angry. Accusing me as she drove out of the driveway to do groceries - we haven't talked about it yet. Our trust was pretty low to begin with and now it's probably shot. Any advice? By nature, I'm a pretty easy going guy, but these past few years have definitely taken a toll. Doing things I never thought I would do - it's crazy. Ironically, we've been married 23 years, and early in the marriage I was the one who wondered if it was a big mistake and almost left. But I felt guilty for disrupting her life (she came around the world to marry me) so I decided to work and devote myself to the marriage and invest a lot of time and emotion into making it work. Turning into a pretty bad investment - I don't even recognize what I thought I was building my life around. Definitely put too many eggs in one basket. Things are not looking good - so now I have to think about me and my two daughters.
wrencn Posted July 11, 2010 Posted July 11, 2010 You had every right to spy. Don't beat yourself up over it. Let her be mad, that's her guilt talking. My husband use to rifle through my stuff and it annoyed me but I felt if that's what he needed then I should let him.
eeyore1981 Posted July 11, 2010 Posted July 11, 2010 You had every right to spy. Don't beat yourself up over it. Let her be mad, that's her guilt talking. My husband use to rifle through my stuff and it annoyed me but I felt if that's what he needed then I should let him. BBM Yeah, that. It is my firm belief if an SO is lying and/or being evasive, that is the trust breakers. The other person attempting to find out the truth is acting on self-preservation. While she's gone, maybe you should try to get a look at her computer. 1
spriggig Posted July 11, 2010 Posted July 11, 2010 If you guys stay together and try to fix this, one of the conditions is that she allows you full access to her accounts/phone, etc. The reason is that, perhaps against logic, you'll have moments of doubt and need to confirm that she's staying true. I have a IRL friend who had an EA and this was the arrangement they came to on their own and it worked--she said it took a year for her H to stop snooping. Think back to when you were first married, and (I assume) you both had nothing to hide, would she have even had a password on her phone, hypothetically? Yeah, trust is low right now, because of how she is acting.
imagine Posted July 11, 2010 Posted July 11, 2010 Why is her blackberry confidential? Could you not ask her to show you how it worked? I guess now you will have to install a voice recorder in her car. Taped under the seat with lots of batteries. You may have to install a GPS to record her movements. Why don't you ask her quietly if she loves you. Express your concerns. Spying is for the good of your marriage. Conversations with her should not beat around the bush.
sumdude Posted July 11, 2010 Posted July 11, 2010 (edited) My wife has basically told me that she's no longer in love with me yet doesn't want to move out because of the kids (and because she has never lived on her own and is probably scared). NOW I'm wondering if there is somebody else. OK you've received the classic "I love you but I'm not in love with you." speech. Most every betrayed spouse that I've come across in 5 years on this site has heard the same thing. It means.. " I don't want you like that anymore but I don't have a better way to say it or the guts to admit my guilt. I'm already having or am really looking for sex with someone else." Been there.. She doesn't want to move out? Well partially for the kids but also so she can have her cake and eat it too. Why should she move? You're taking care of everything including the kids while she can run around doing whatever and whoever she wants. She doesn't respect you anymore. The marriage is over and has been. Yes you think you still love her but mostly you're addicted to her. Ask yourself ... if your best friend was telling you what you've told us what would yous say? You have to take control of your life, you shouldn't put up with this kind of disrespect. You're not hopeless unless you believe it. It's going to be hard but for your own sake you need to start talking to lawyers. Do it secretly and when you know your options financially and otherwise in a divorce then spring it on her. Never mind snooping unless you really want to know the details. I'd bet $1000 that there's someone(s) else. Edited July 11, 2010 by sumdude 1
Author Cedarman Posted July 11, 2010 Author Posted July 11, 2010 Well, this day certainly hasn't gone as planned. My wife and I had another discussion which turned into an argument. I came right out and admitted that I was snooping and told her why. She continues to deny anything funny is going on, but admits to lying (mainly by omission) for the past few years about things like her outings with her friends. Why? - well according to her, MY attitude forced her to lie because she thought I wouldn't approve. What utter BS - it's the lying that keeps me up at night, not her activities. i.e. if she were simply honest, I would be better able to deal with whatever she wanted to do - by lying she left a credibility gap which I filled with my worst fears. She has become so skillful and dependent upon lying that I no longer can trust what she says. Even during the argument she was lying, I asked her if she has any other email accounts and she denied this (I know for a fact that she's set up gmail account). Also - I managed to get into her home email account and there were a lot of messages in the sent box (which she thought she deleted) which were suspicious - no out and out smoking gun, but definite proof that she was NOT out with just "the girls" as she consistently told me. What this means is that the marriage counseling we did (twice) over the past few years has been a complete waste because she was never committed to honesty and working to fix our trust issue. In fact, she abused this trust habitually. Bottom line is I said that if she can't be honest with her husband then she should simply leave. Of course, complicating matters is that I'm on a business trip the next two days and then my wife and two daughters are flying to her home county for a 2.5 week vacation (I'm supposed to join them in 10 days). The timing sucks (but I guess there is never a good time for this to happen). My fault on the timing I guess... I'm going to go on the trip, if only for my daughter's sake. In the meantime, I'm going to get some legal advice on the separation. When I suggested that my wife leave - she immediately said "Why should I be the one to go?". Unbelievable! 1
worlybear Posted July 11, 2010 Posted July 11, 2010 Hey there. Just read your posts and my gut feeling is put you and your kids first. Your wife has a very selfish attitude towards you and your family and imo she is using you and has not got the courage to tell you the marriage is over. Stay strong:bunny::bunny:
habs53 Posted July 11, 2010 Posted July 11, 2010 Well, this day certainly hasn't gone as planned. My wife and I had another discussion which turned into an argument. I came right out and admitted that I was snooping and told her why. She continues to deny anything funny is going on, but admits to lying (mainly by omission) for the past few years about things like her outings with her friends. Why? - well according to her, MY attitude forced her to lie because she thought I wouldn't approve. What utter BS - it's the lying that keeps me up at night, not her activities. i.e. if she were simply honest, I would be better able to deal with whatever she wanted to do - by lying she left a credibility gap which I filled with my worst fears. She has become so skillful and dependent upon lying that I no longer can trust what she says. Even during the argument she was lying, I asked her if she has any other email accounts and she denied this (I know for a fact that she's set up gmail account). Also - I managed to get into her home email account and there were a lot of messages in the sent box (which she thought she deleted) which were suspicious - no out and out smoking gun, but definite proof that she was NOT out with just "the girls" as she consistently told me. What this means is that the marriage counseling we did (twice) over the past few years has been a complete waste because she was never committed to honesty and working to fix our trust issue. In fact, she abused this trust habitually. Bottom line is I said that if she can't be honest with her husband then she should simply leave. Of course, complicating matters is that I'm on a business trip the next two days and then my wife and two daughters are flying to her home county for a 2.5 week vacation (I'm supposed to join them in 10 days). The timing sucks (but I guess there is never a good time for this to happen). My fault on the timing I guess... I'm going to go on the trip, if only for my daughter's sake. In the meantime, I'm going to get some legal advice on the separation. When I suggested that my wife leave - she immediately said "Why should I be the one to go?". Unbelievable! tell her you will help her, you got a big front lawn to put stuff on?
Author Cedarman Posted July 11, 2010 Author Posted July 11, 2010 Now the question is do I bother to join them on their holiday? I thought initially it would be good for my daughters but I'm wondering if it would be better to just cool off a bit for all parties. The other question is separation - do most people get an agreement of some sort in place? Right now it seems we have irreconcilable differences - so not sure if a separation with the intent to get back together would be good. Eg - if there was a no dating clause, how could I handle that knowing she lied so much when we were married? What about the kids - stability would seem most important, is it common to have joint custody during a separation, or should my wife just move out and have visitation? Part of me hates the prospect of custody. Nothing would hurt more than to become a part-time Dad, and a part of me hates the thought that my wife would LOVE to be a part time Mom - that's kind of the arrangement right now, so what's the point? Too much to think about and a business trip tomorrow. Thanks for all the input!
LuckyLady13 Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 Cedar, let me tell you something. You mentioned stability being important. I just want to say that my mother was similar to your wife as I was growing up. I saw my dad two weeks ago who is still with her. I haven't spoken to her at all for a year and a half. When talking to my dad, it had been probably 20 years since the last time tears streamed down my face when I talked to him and I said "when I was 16 and you let her back into your life after being separated for six months, it broke my heart". Seeing my mother treat my father the way she was really broke my heart and to this day it still hurts. If my mother didn't cheat on him, I know over the years she's tried but I don't know if she ever found a guy dumb enough to have sex with her. It hurt me to see my mother behaving that way toward my dad but it also hurt to see my dad stay with her and take more of it for years after. People have a tendency to think it's going to hurt the kids to divorce but I nearly begged my dad to divorce my mother years back. He's the type of guy to give a person in need the shirt off his back while my mother wanted to be a part time mom (barely that) and party, have fun...act like a teenager instead of a wife and mother. If you stay with her, that may be the thing that hurts your kids the most.
habs53 Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 Cedar, let me tell you something. You mentioned stability being important. I just want to say that my mother was similar to your wife as I was growing up. I saw my dad two weeks ago who is still with her. I haven't spoken to her at all for a year and a half. When talking to my dad, it had been probably 20 years since the last time tears streamed down my face when I talked to him and I said "when I was 16 and you let her back into your life after being separated for six months, it broke my heart". Seeing my mother treat my father the way she was really broke my heart and to this day it still hurts. If my mother didn't cheat on him, I know over the years she's tried but I don't know if she ever found a guy dumb enough to have sex with her. It hurt me to see my mother behaving that way toward my dad but it also hurt to see my dad stay with her and take more of it for years after. People have a tendency to think it's going to hurt the kids to divorce but I nearly begged my dad to divorce my mother years back. He's the type of guy to give a person in need the shirt off his back while my mother wanted to be a part time mom (barely that) and party, have fun...act like a teenager instead of a wife and mother. If you stay with her, that may be the thing that hurts your kids the most. That is a sad yet great post.
2sunny Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 Now the question is do I bother to join them on their holiday? I thought initially it would be good for my daughters but I'm wondering if it would be better to just cool off a bit for all parties. The other question is separation - do most people get an agreement of some sort in place? Right now it seems we have irreconcilable differences - so not sure if a separation with the intent to get back together would be good. Eg - if there was a no dating clause, how could I handle that knowing she lied so much when we were married? What about the kids - stability would seem most important, is it common to have joint custody during a separation, or should my wife just move out and have visitation? Part of me hates the prospect of custody. Nothing would hurt more than to become a part-time Dad, and a part of me hates the thought that my wife would LOVE to be a part time Mom - that's kind of the arrangement right now, so what's the point? Too much to think about and a business trip tomorrow. Thanks for all the input! i wouldn't go on holiday. i would make her move out today. you can tell her that she is the one lying... and isn't willing to be honest - she should leave. move money. check that she doesn't take money she shouldn't. closed credit cards. change the locks on the house. get a separation going. have custody going to you - so that she is forced to bring the kids back from her country - and it's legally expected that they live here - with you. she can have visitation. it is HER behavior that has changed your household. SHE is the one to move. she is the one who CAUSED this. that is why things should go this way. she's been cheating a long time... you've just been overlooking it all. start paying attention man! on a side note: no woman would be mad that someone looked at her phone - if she had nothing to hide. people look at my phone all the time - i don't get bothered by it... but i'm not trying to hide anything and i don't lie. start checking who she's hiding her phone messages, email, texts with... i'd bet money it's a golf or work buddy. by kicking her out now - she may get a quick wake up call and start realizing she is the one who messed things up - and that SHE is the only one who can fix that... in case she doesn't - get busy taking care of you.
Author Cedarman Posted July 12, 2010 Author Posted July 12, 2010 Again, thanks everyone for the input. It's very supportive to hear from people who are going through or have gone through a similar situation. As far as kicking her out - I can't do this, house is joint name - she's got as much ownership as me. The whole situation sucks and but I guess it was inevitable. Still debating about joining them for the last week of holidays - if only to protect my flank and represent my side with her friends and in-laws, and protect my kids from a lot of potential negativity. I'd like to think my wife will take the high road for the kid's sake and simply not mention anything until we sit down together and sort it out first, but on the other hand - I have no confidence that I know my wife anymore. Anway thanks again - it's past midnite and I have to get up in 4 hours - doubt I'll get any sleep tonight. I'll check back in tomorrow night.
Butterflair Posted July 12, 2010 Posted July 12, 2010 (edited) I just read your thread. I had to end a 32 yr marriage the end of last year and I had to do things I didn't like to get the truth. I had to keep things on the down low for over a month in order to gain evidence. I know each situation is different but here are my thoughts on what I've read. - there is no reason she should have her phone locked unless she is hiding something. My husband would delete all text messages and phone call records on his phone daily but they still showed up on the bill. Blackberries also receive email. I have one. I had to lock mine once I hired a PI. - Put your daughters first. Do what is best for them and be sure they are considered in all you do. While she might be a good mother, quality time with the young kids is important. Is she really spending quality time? It sounds like you are doing more. - I believe she is having an affair, whether it's physical or emotional, doesn't matter. She is not wholly with you. You need to find this out and do it NOW. The more time you wait, the more she will hide. You need this to get the truth and to know what your dealing with. Okay, with that said, you should go on the vacation and act as normal as you can. Before you leave and while she is gone, look for as much as you can in the house. Check the computer, the phone records, credit card bills and look for unusual activity. Look in her closet (carefully and put things back as found) and try to find hidden things. Take photos of anything unusual. Document everything you find. With copies or photos. Think of it as evidence in court should you need it. Here is the important one... install a keylogger on the computer while she is gone. You can also access them remotely and check all her mail and chats. While it may not be "legal" in your state and you may not be able to use it in court, you will find out what is going on and get the truth. I was able to get meeting places to give the PI so he could document evidence that would be legal in court. You need to consult a lawyer and find out your rights as far as marital assets and the kids. Knowledge is power. DO NOT feel sorry for her. She has dragged you around by the nose for years and played you with guilt. I know how it feels to end a long term marriage but I also know how it feels to try to keep a marriage going with someone you can't trust. My husband cheated on me before with a long term affair and I thought we over came that, well we didn't. He just had another one and I'm done. When you are ready for the showdown, you can show her the evidence or tell her you have it and that you're ready to file for divorce. You will know if she sincerely wants to make things right and work it out and if she does, she'll agree to anything. If she gets angry then call the lawyer and hit her with all of it. Feel no guilt, she is responsible for her part in this, it's not your job to carry the whole marriage. To sum it up: Don't trust anything she says as truth. Go on the trip and be the best you that you are able to be. Be there for your girls. Keep a journal of all she says and does. Keylog your computer. Trust your gut instinct, that little voice in your head. If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it IS a duck. I know this is hard, try to step outside yourself and look as an observer and do not have sex with her again until you know what's going on. Good luck Edited July 12, 2010 by Butterflair
Author Cedarman Posted July 13, 2010 Author Posted July 13, 2010 Thanks Butterflair. I'm still not comfortable with the snooping. But I did get into her email and from the emails I've found I already know that my wife has not been emotionally faithful (although I believe in my heart that she has been physically faithful). In addition, I've shown that she's outright lied about her activities (she would say she was going out with her girlfriends - all married with kids). It turns out that her two new best friends are a divorcee and a married woman having an affair - not the best role models when they're all out at a club. Also a string of emails inviting a guy to meet her girlfriends (at what was supposed to be an all-girls event). My wife explained this by saying she was just introducing him to her divorced girlfriend - possible, but why did she lie about it? No, there's already something fishy going on and a lot of disrespect for me. I get angry just thinking about it. Having said that, today at the first day of the conference, all I could think about was what she was doing while I was gone. Seeing a lawyer? Meeting her friends for lunch and crying about how outrageous it was for me to "spy" on her? Looking after the kids? It was very distracting and depressing. Normally, I would call and/or text my wife at least once or twice during the day but today I did nothing (I did text a message to my eldest daughter). I can imagine that if we do separate the "no contact" thing will be very difficult for me - my imagination is way too active (probably makes this problem even worse than it is). Anyway, I used to just call to talk and tell her some of the small stuff that happens during a business trip (eg - I'm staying in a very cool hotel - just little silly things that I never worried about saying, but now over-analyze). It used to be so easy. NOW I know that if I called, she'd just think I was "checking up" on her. It stinks that I miss sharing things with her when in my heart I pretty much know she doesn't give a damn (or she's so stubborn that she'll never admit to herself that she does care - she has a huge survival streak which allows her to simply cast off thoughts that might hurt her.) I'm guessing that I'll be on these forums a lot in the future.
Butterflair Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 I know it doesn't feel good to snoop, I hated doing it and the first time I read the chats I had to call my sister so she'd be on the phone with me for support. It sucks to be forced to do such things but if the spouse won't give you the truth, then you have to hunt for it. I wasn't risking my health and well being on lies. Once I found out he had been with this skank, I no longer had sex with him. Her past is very bad. If they are having an affair, they will lie about it. If you find nothing, it just sets your mind at ease.
spriggig Posted July 13, 2010 Posted July 13, 2010 ...she has a huge survival streak which allows her to simply cast off thoughts that might hurt her. "Survival Streak". This is the most positive spin I've ever heard for irresponsible.
Author Cedarman Posted July 13, 2010 Author Posted July 13, 2010 "Survival Streak". This is the most positive spin I've ever heard for irresponsible. No, her actions regarding me and the family are irresponsible, but her survival streak was a necessity for her. She came from a very poor background and her father was a bit of a tyrant and physically abusive to my mother-in-law (her mother finally leaving/divorcing him when my wife was 12 - they all lived in one room after leaving). The biggest insult my wife ever said to me while we were arguing was that I reminded her of her father - that really hurt as I've never done anything to physically hurt my wife - just a lot of arguments. And I've been totally supportive of anything she's tried and have always been there for her - even after she started lying to me. The weirdest thing is when my father in law died, everybody, including my wife made such a big deal about it - My wife even flying home for the funeral. You'd think he was the best Dad and best husband in the world. Given the stories I had heard, I wouldn't have bothered, or would have gone just to ensure that he was dead. Anyway, my wife has this ability to compartmentalize conflict and move on. That's what will be tough about any possible reconciliation and why I believe that Marriage Counselling has failed. She's already compartmentalized our marriage and moved on. Even our last argument (when I revealed that I know about her emails) - we argued, she cried, but she had NO trouble sleeping that night. Where I feel an almost overwhelming sadness about what we've lost, she seems to be focussed on the next phase of her life. Seems very cold and calculating, and it is - but she's in better shape than me. We should mix a little bit.
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