Clancy Posted February 5, 2004 Posted February 5, 2004 Is it beacuse I'm older and more conservative now or are girls a lot skankier now than they've ever been. I watched a reality type movie called the Real Cancun where ordinary girls whipped off their tops to expose their breasts in public at the first opportunity. I see on Jerry Springer that girls will bare their breasts, on national TV in return for hoots from the audience and some cheap beads. Maybe I'm watching the wrong shows but there seems to be a sub-culture of teen skank that has convinved girls that they're worth is only measured in if they can bang a guy and if they can grind the ass on the dance floor. I love women's breasts and they are fun too look at but I'm really saddenned by the way girls have allowed their bodies to become so devalued in such a public way. How are these girls being raised? Have society's values been so restructured that, to behave the way only a drunken slut would have 30 years ago, makes a girls cool.
doniker Posted February 5, 2004 Posted February 5, 2004 I notice these things too. and I wish I was 20 years younger so I could take advantage of it all!!!
moimeme Posted February 5, 2004 Posted February 5, 2004 You can't translate the demographic found in a 'girls' movie or Jerry Springer to extrapolate to all females.
dyermaker Posted February 5, 2004 Posted February 5, 2004 I blame rap music. Every generation has {ehem} outtsripped their parents. The youth finds sexual rebellion as as great way to assert independence from authority. While one generation would be okay taking off their top in baton rouge, one a long time ago wore skrits above the knee and snuck out to the discotech . It's natural for the adults to disapprove.
Author Clancy Posted February 5, 2004 Author Posted February 5, 2004 Well, that's certainly true Moimeme but those were examples of what I see in society in general. Look at the MTV generation. Christina A., who admittedly has some vocal talent, uses her body as though she was the whore of Babylon. And girls on the dance floor certainly try to emulate her moves. What about the virtueless behaviours we see on shows like Blind Date and The Fith Wheel. The values found at the bottom of those barrels are slut-based.. And the whole booty shaking dance move is pure skank too. If a girl moves her body like a slut public doesn't that lower her value as a person and potential mate?
dyermaker Posted February 5, 2004 Posted February 5, 2004 Originally posted by Clancy Look at the MTV generation. MTV is an entertainment network, a business. The generation that is portrayed on it is commercialized, for the sake of selling things. The phrase 'MTV Generation' is a phrase invented by older people to categorize the youth as being immoral. Look at the HBO generation! We have women watching sex and the city, and my grandparents watching the sopranos. Let entertainment be entertainment. What about the virtueless behaviours we see on shows like Blind Date and The Fith Wheel. The values found at the bottom of those barrels are slut-based.. Stop watching late-night trashy TV to determine the behavior of a generation. It would be like me watching leave it to beaver, and wondering why every older person is so prudent. Years ago, your parents would have found what your generation was engaging in to be shocking. I hope when I become a parent I can recognize this, and deal with things a little more contextually than blaming my kids for what I caught someone in their demographic doing on TV.
cdn Posted February 5, 2004 Posted February 5, 2004 Stop watching late-night trashy TV to determine the behavior of a generation. It would be like me watching leave it to beaver, and wondering why every older person is so prudent. I'll take the values from Leave it Beaver over those reflected on late-night trashy TV any day.
Author Clancy Posted February 5, 2004 Author Posted February 5, 2004 I think it's incorrect to assume that TV land doesn't change the morals, values, and subsequently the behaviours of teens. Why is it I see Native kids on reserves dressing in ghetto/gangsta style and get this...singing rap songs with Detroit/and Brooklyn black accents. Yes, my generation shocked our parents and as a parent I'm being shocked now. But this slutty behaviour seems a lot worse than boys wearng long hair and kids smoking pot and hitchiking to wear flowers in their hair in San Francisco. Dyer, you say you hope you'll be able to better deal with the shocks your childdren will be giving your generation. At this rate what will the children of the future do to shock..give public blow jobs on the dance floor?
Bronzepen Posted February 5, 2004 Posted February 5, 2004 For each generation, there is always going to be a "pushing the envelope" . What we call slutty today will not have the same definition of slutty to our kids when they are adults.
Errol Posted February 5, 2004 Posted February 5, 2004 I have to say I agree with the overall "skankiness" of this generation. I know that the constantly shifting censorship and ratings of TV and movies, and music, has a huge impact on the thought patterns and decision making ability of our young people today. Perhaps our parents (or for some of you--your grandparents) were not wrong when they said that rock-&-roll was corrupting the children. I have teenage daughters. We've talked to them about the issues they face. Some of the comments I've heard are "No, we don't have sex -- its just touching!" (that one instigated a very long conversation and she did NOT go on that date!) "I am afraid to date because sex is going to hurt, and I don't want to with other girls" She thought that sex was part of dating and she was afraid that because it was a group date it meant group sex! When I was young dating in a group was considered safer therefor younger teenagers could date. We asked what made her think that and its everywhere! TV, movies, teen magazines with condom ads, etc. Sex is "cool" like smoking used to be. The half-time show at the Super bowl didn't shock the kids like it did the parents! (except for explaining to a young daughter was a 32 hour erection was!) We see it as being slutty or skanky (I use the term 'smut') which translates into a very negative opinion of those who are acting this way, something to be ashamed of, something 'Bad'. While the younger generations just don't 'feel' it that way. Our childish misconceptions were not as dangerous as the misconceptions of recent generations.
Leikela Posted February 5, 2004 Posted February 5, 2004 I am 27 years old and I grew up as an adolescent in the late 80's and early 90's. I look at young girls today and think to myself that things haven't definitely gotten racier. I wouldn't have even thought about dressing with my cleavage hanging out when I was 15. I remember being embarassed in high school when I wore a "body suit" (the craze at the time) under jeans. To me that was racy and all it is is a close fitting shirt, like a bathing suit that you snap in the crotch. No skin is revealed. I will say that society has definitely influenced our teens today. I watched MTV when I was young and wanted to dress and act like the people I saw on there. Nothing has changed. I worked with teens at a facility where kids have been victims of sexual/physical abuse and they all look up to Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera and try to dress like them. It still shocks me to this day the way young kids are dressing and influnced by what they see on TV and read in magazines. It just screams SEX! Times are definitely changing because even commercials have become racier. You wouldn't see Victoria's Secret commericals like that on 10 years ago. Also, during the Super Bowl they had a commercial where they showed some lady's butt in a thong. I was taken aback by that. And they thought Janet Jackson's boob was a big deal? I don't agree with the level that it has gotten to at all. I think it's a disrespect to one's body, but those are my personal morals. I'll be damned if when I have kids, that they are going to dress or carry on that way. Heck no! I am teaching them to have respect for themselves.
EnigmaXOXO Posted February 5, 2004 Posted February 5, 2004 I think it's incorrect to assume that TV land doesn't change the morals, values, and subsequently the behaviors of teens. Why is it I see Native kids on reserves dressing in ghetto/gangsta style and get this...singing rap songs with Detroit/and Brooklyn black accents. Clancy, I FEEEEEEEEL your pain! As a youth mentor and councilor who worked directly with Native American kids, I wasn’t surprised to see our urban teens assimilate into the “gangsta” lifestyle. After all, it was right outside their doors everyday. But when traveling to Rosebud and Pine ridge, I was floored to discover there was little respect left for traditional values and culture --- as beautiful as it was. Instead, I found the same young teens I had seen wondering the city streets. I even spoke to some of these adolescents who admitted they would much rather be mistaken for (In their words) “Chicanos,” then to be identified as Native Americans. Perhaps it was the stigma placed upon them from the non-Native communities living on the outskirts of the Reservation. But more importantly, “media” and the influence of our contemporary society has even stretched its long arm into the remotest of communities. You’d be hard pressed to find even the poorest of families without a television or radio. Along with it come all the same problems we now face with our own kids: violence, crime, drugs, gangs and teen pregnancies. And because these are such small communities, the ratio is much higher. Like you, it pains me to see our young girls devalue themselves as “sex objects” and “boy toys.” … trying to emulate those images of physical perfection and raw sexuality the media bombards them with every day. Every billboard, magazine cover, and television commercial/show features your gratuitous T&A. Sex and violence sells. I even challenged my kids once to spend a day counting how many times these images and ideas were presented to them in a 24 hour period. The average was eleven times a day…more for those who accounted for their music and video games! I don’t believe we can attribute the breakdown of values we’re seeing to just the ‘media’ and cultural influences. Rather I believe some of it has to do with the fundamental breakdown of our family units in general, and the shortage of good, strong role models when it comes to parents and adults. I don’t know where this is all going, Clancy, but my heart breaks. Meanwhile, all we can do is hang onto hope and love our kids the best we know how…and PRAY they somehow find the strength to navigate this confusing world and survive themselves.
InmannRoshi Posted February 5, 2004 Posted February 5, 2004 I am 27 years old and I grew up as an adolescent in the late 80's and early 90's. I look at young girls today and think to myself that things haven't definitely gotten racier. I wouldn't have even thought about dressing with my cleavage hanging out when I was 15. I remember being embarassed in high school when I wore a "body suit" (the craze at the time) under jeans. To me that was racy and all it is is a close fitting shirt, like a bathing suit that you snap in the crotch. No skin is revealed. I'm your age, and seem to remember that about the most common dress code violation at our school was having a skirt that went above the knees. That was pushing the envelope and would get you sent home for a change of clothes. Now its 12 year olds with butt cleavage with the thong exposed with a small t-shirt with "Slut" written across the front. I agree that there is a natural tendency for generations to push the enevelope and to rebel against the generation before them. But that wasn't a generation ago ... that was 10 years ago.
stranger Posted February 5, 2004 Posted February 5, 2004 Originally posted by Clancy I think it's incorrect to assume that TV land doesn't change the morals, values, and subsequently the behaviours of teens. Why is it I see Native kids on reserves dressing in ghetto/gangsta style and get this...singing rap songs with Detroit/and Brooklyn black accents. Yes, my generation shocked our parents and as a parent I'm being shocked now. But this slutty behaviour seems a lot worse than boys wearng long hair and kids smoking pot and hitchiking to wear flowers in their hair in San Francisco. Dyer, you say you hope you'll be able to better deal with the shocks your childdren will be giving your generation. At this rate what will the children of the future do to shock..give public blow jobs on the dance floor? Clancy, I agree with you. And I hate to shock you, but just yesterday I saw a news report on tv about an incident in a MIDDLE SCHOOL where the teacher left the room for a while and two students engaged in oral sex right there in the classroom! They described them as "special needs students" whereby my husband remarked, "Sounds like they had 'special needs' all right." Sad....very sad.
dyermaker Posted February 6, 2004 Posted February 6, 2004 Acting "Gangsta" is synonymous with acting "black" What us white folk call the "gang" look has hardly ANYTHING to do with crime. It just so happens that members of street gangs dress like this. But if some guy wore a suit and a fedora, would we criticize him for affiliating with 'white' organized crime? The hiphop artists of today sing of crime just like Johnny Cash did in the late 1950's. Don't justify your prejudice toward the "mtv generation " by calling it gang-related. What you really mean is that people are beginning to imitate the culture of black people. If you take issue to this, that's a personal problem, not a problem with society. I'm grateful for black influence on our culture. The 'assimilation' of black people into white culture has created some great things, including the music of Elvis Presley and Led Zeppelin. I don't particularly care for the hip-hop style of dress/music--but to claim that it's some degeneration of society is ridiculous, and seperate from the sexualization of youth. It isn't black music that causes children to have sex. Children were doing that in the fifties, sixties, and certainly the seventies. The soundtrack is irrelevant--{ehem}--the song remains the same.
xalysabethh Posted February 6, 2004 Posted February 6, 2004 I too feel things have gotton racier so to say. becasue i'm 24 so i'm that old and even from when i was young i mean i went through my stage of wearing dazzy dukes and tight clothes etc but not till i was like 13 or 14 but i see kids in elementry school wearing racy things and wehn i shop for my 4 year old i am appalled at soem of the cloth selection they have for even her size! i dont know that its getting worse but it keeps getting younger. xalsyabeth
AMN819 Posted February 6, 2004 Posted February 6, 2004 Originally posted by dyermaker I blame rap music. And would you blame Marilyn Manson for the Columbine incident? To blame music for anything is ridiculous. I happen to be a VERY conservative person and this is ONE HUGE element I very highy disagree with conservatives on.... I happen to be 21.. listen to EVERYTHING out there...mainly rap..and I can tell you this...I have NEVER shown ANY body part to anyone. I go to bars ALL the time...clubs ALL the time and ALL the girls will start flashing the crowd...guys will try to encourage me....I say H*LL NO....the fact is, I was raised WAY better than that. I have much more respect for myself..I wouldn't even THINK to do it. Music may have changed significantly since the 50's and it may be very degrading and profane..and yes, somewhat out of control. But the reality of all this sh*t that goes on is bad parenting. Every possible BAD thing out there...drugs, sex, rape, violence all parenting...most people (well, most DECENT people...accounting for the ones who made a mistake once in their life and got caught)who go out and drink..before they get in their car say "Oh no, I am drunk..lemme get a cab before me or someone else gets hurt...." I think like that..but I also think "Holy SH*T..if I EVER got a DUI, my dad would beat the P*ss outta me"...that's probably the reason I DON'T do drugs, and don't get into trouble. I don't mean to argue with you on this subject, so please forgive me if it seems that I have an attitude..I just hate people blaming Eminem for kids smacking their mother...Eminem didn't hold a gun to your head and force you to. You are just a d@mn punk and your parents need to kick your @ss. So, to answer the topic...not all girls are like that...but yes, things have changed drastically over the years and this IS how girls act these days..sad, huh??? What's worse is the innocent ones walking home from work or school get raped and kidnapped...not that I would EVER even THINK to wish that on someone..but you get my drift!!! OY!!!
reasontosigh Posted February 6, 2004 Posted February 6, 2004 Music may have changed significantly since the 50's and it may be very degrading and profane..and yes, somewhat out of control. But the reality of all this sh*t that goes on is bad parenting Frankly, I agree. Unfortunately, not all children seem to have good communication within their families. Sad but true. My parents knew I had seen a lot of things while growing up (and even did a thing or two) but they never insulted my intelligence, which I believe is the greatest gift a parent can give a child. Fortunately for me also, the communcation level in our house was quite good. I could ask anything and get a straight answer. As for Eminem, if I recall correctly, he addresses that very issue in one of his songs. I believe the one I'm thinking of here is "Sing For The Moment".
dyermaker Posted February 6, 2004 Posted February 6, 2004 Originally posted by AMN819 And would you blame Marilyn Manson for the Columbine incident? To blame music for anything is ridiculous. I happen to be a VERY conservative person and this is ONE HUGE element I very highy disagree with conservatives on.... I happen to be 21.. listen to EVERYTHING out there...mainly rap..and I can tell you this...I have NEVER shown ANY body part to anyone. I go to bars ALL the time...clubs ALL the time and ALL the girls will start flashing the crowd...guys will try to encourage me....I say H*LL NO....the fact is, I was raised WAY better than that. I have much more respect for myself..I wouldn't even THINK to do it. Music may have changed significantly since the 50's and it may be very degrading and profane..and yes, somewhat out of control. But the reality of all this sh*t that goes on is bad parenting. Every possible BAD thing out there...drugs, sex, rape, violence all parenting...most people (well, most DECENT people...accounting for the ones who made a mistake once in their life and got caught)who go out and drink..before they get in their car say "Oh no, I am drunk..lemme get a cab before me or someone else gets hurt...." I think like that..but I also think "Holy SH*T..if I EVER got a DUI, my dad would beat the P*ss outta me"...that's probably the reason I DON'T do drugs, and don't get into trouble. I don't mean to argue with you on this subject, so please forgive me if it seems that I have an attitude..I just hate people blaming Eminem for kids smacking their mother...Eminem didn't hold a gun to your head and force you to. You are just a d@mn punk and your parents need to kick your @ss. So, to answer the topic...not all girls are like that...but yes, things have changed drastically over the years and this IS how girls act these days..sad, huh??? What's worse is the innocent ones walking home from work or school get raped and kidnapped...not that I would EVER even THINK to wish that on someone..but you get my drift!!! OY!!! You misinterpreted my sarcasm, I completely agree with you, I'm sorry you didn't see it, especially in the context of my other posts. I'm younger than you, and listen to plenty of music, both from the fifties and trailer-trash hiphop artists alike.
dyermaker Posted February 6, 2004 Posted February 6, 2004 Originally posted by reasontosigh As for Eminem, if I recall correctly, he addresses that very issue in one of his songs. I believe the one I'm thinking of here is "Sing For The Moment". Yes, it's what I was thinking of when I posted it.
monkey00 Posted February 6, 2004 Posted February 6, 2004 you do realize.... that some of the ppl that appear on the jerry springer show are paid to go up and "act" or show their boobs...etc. when they cant find ppl to appear on the show, they have to keep it going by hiring ppl to fake it and start ****
dyermaker Posted February 6, 2004 Posted February 6, 2004 Originally posted by monkey00 you do realize.... that some of the ppl that appear on the jerry springer show are paid to go up and "act" While I wouldn't put it past them, do you have anything to back this up? Just curious.
Jacqui Posted February 6, 2004 Posted February 6, 2004 Uh, is it just me or does anyone else find it disturbing that there is such an overt double standard of sexual behaviour at work here? Why is a guy rewarded for going out and having sex with as many girls as he can, when a female such as Christina A is caned right on this forum for simply for showing off her fabulous figure? Are men such neandathrals that they cannot control themselves when presented with a sexually powerful woman? I don't think there is anything wrong with the 'youth of today'. I think that the older members of this forum should start applying equal standards to both sexes and realise that a boy who flaunts his sexuality is just as much of a 'slut' (if they feel inclined to use such a term) as a girl who does the same. But in my opinion, neither is doing anything wrong by being open about and experimenting with their sexuality. That is not a sign of decreasing values, that is a sign of a changing society. Get used to it.
reasontosigh Posted February 6, 2004 Posted February 6, 2004 ....I think that the older members of this forum should start applying equal standards to both sexes and realise that a boy who flaunts his sexuality is just as much of a 'slut' (if they feel inclined to use such a term) as a girl who does the same... There are quite a few of us "older members" that do. I believe you will discover that as you read through more of the threads here.
subtitled Posted February 6, 2004 Posted February 6, 2004 I am at an age at which i should be most immersed in the "skankiness" of my generation. The truth is, my upbringing, perhaps most importantly my parent's support for my independence, individuality and freedom of choice have meant that i haven't felt at any point pressured into falling into mainstream habits that you have identified as the 'mtv generations' way of doing things. Personally, i believe it has a lot to do with the way you have been brought up as to how you respond to these phases. Perhaps the answer to a lot of these issues you have identified in people my age is the importance placed upon fitting in, which is often a value passed on through one's parents behaviour. I have no definate answers to the way society is going, i agree with Dyer in his assertion that it is a part of cultural evolution and that every generation has its associated controversy, but one thing i know is that for every culture there is a counter culture.. and for this reason just because the skanky culture receives the most publicity, does not mean there isn't an opposite culture just as strong ready to overwhelm the other in the not too distant future.
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