bentnotbroken Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 Showing me respect and courtesy would include actually engaging my ideas and the literature that I presented rather than harping on about how great your own family is. I don't doubt that your kids are fine people, but that negates nothing that I've said, and it likewise does not negate the dangers of the cult of child worship that parents are only now slowly escaping. Engaging thoughts and ideas is a two way street. Your post seemed pretty set in stone and accusatory without knowing the background of me or any other parent posting. I am well aware of the articles of parenting styles and the pros and cons of those styles. It is part of my job and study program. :)Do you children? A couple of posts for you equals harping, therefore no discussion is necesssary because anything I say has been dismissed because of your preconceived notions and disagreement with my opinions. But to each his own.
TheBigQuestion Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 Engaging thoughts and ideas is a two way street. Your post seemed pretty set in stone and accusatory without knowing the background of me or any other parent posting. I am well aware of the articles of parenting styles and the pros and cons of those styles. It is part of my job and study program. :)Do you children? A couple of posts for you equals harping, therefore no discussion is necesssary because anything I say has been dismissed because of your preconceived notions and disagreement with my opinions. But to each his own. I know it's a two-way street. You and several others in this thread already demonstrated your viewpoint. I presented an alternative. Regardless of whether I came across as accusatory, I still presented a lengthy, well-written article that aptly demonstrates why I believe overparenting is a fundamentally bad idea that flies in the face of logic and risk assessment. You've said nothing other than what basically amounts to "I'm right because I say so." My personal thesis is that keeping kids in a bubble the way the parents in the article have (and this is absolutely the norm nowadays) seems like it contributes to an inability to make sound decisions when mom and dad aren't around. This can certainly extend to drug use. It may not DIRECTLY relate to the OP's situation, as she has not shown too many helicopter parent tendencies, but it's a reason why I think that overparenting techniques will likely be largely ineffective in dealing with such delicate situations. No, I don't have any children of my own. However, my adolescence was still not THAT long ago, and I know in retrospect what worked for me and for my friends/acquaintances. My parents thankfully never spied on me despite being quite overprotective (my mom used to walk me to my elementary school 2 blocks away until I was 11 years old). Discovering that I was being spied on or that I was being extensively controlled would've likely enraged me and had counterintuitive results. It's kind of like the DARE program; it never stopped anyone I knew from trying marijuana even though it made it sound like it was the worst thing in the world. It probably just made certain kids more interested, and anyone with this spark of interest could actually read about and realize that it's less harmful than almost every over the counter drug in existence, and feel more compelled to try it.
Tayla Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 BigQuestion- You are fair and gracious to speak of the article. Thank you for standing your ground on such a view point. It may be *different* from what folks want to hear or read ( parents sometimes dont like to think they are fallible since they really do try the best they can ). I am not siding with one way to parent as I've seen some methods work better then others contingent on the circumstances and the young adult or pre- teen. So with that, thanks for giving the opportunity to view things from another angle. Never hurts at any age to re-group on some behaviors or ways to discipline with love.BNB really is a loving parent so I must contend that it goes to ones' heart when someone challenges their way that works for them...I do get that part too.....
bentnotbroken Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 I know it's a two-way street. You and several others in this thread already demonstrated your viewpoint. I presented an alternative. Regardless of whether I came across as accusatory, I still presented a lengthy, well-written article that aptly demonstrates why I believe overparenting is a fundamentally bad idea that flies in the face of logic and risk assessment. You've said nothing other than what basically amounts to "I'm right because I say so." My personal thesis is that keeping kids in a bubble the way the parents in the article have (and this is absolutely the norm nowadays) seems like it contributes to an inability to make sound decisions when mom and dad aren't around. This can certainly extend to drug use. It may not DIRECTLY relate to the OP's situation, as she has not shown too many helicopter parent tendencies, but it's a reason why I think that overparenting techniques will likely be largely ineffective in dealing with such delicate situations. No, I don't have any children of my own. However, my adolescence was still not THAT long ago, and I know in retrospect what worked for me and for my friends/acquaintances. My parents thankfully never spied on me despite being quite overprotective (my mom used to walk me to my elementary school 2 blocks away until I was 11 years old). Discovering that I was being spied on or that I was being extensively controlled would've likely enraged me and had counterintuitive results. It's kind of like the DARE program; it never stopped anyone I knew from trying marijuana even though it made it sound like it was the worst thing in the world. It probably just made certain kids more interested, and anyone with this spark of interest could actually read about and realize that it's less harmful than almost every over the counter drug in existence, and feel more compelled to try it. Ahhh, you offerend a different view. It is "what you believe", but it doesn't make it right or true in every parenting situation. Just as my style won't work for every parenting situation. That's the beauty of raising one's own children with the support of like minded people. See you would have resented what others feel shows love and support. I believe my children (as I am not privy to their inner thoughts; only their actions)tend to discuss their anger issues with me or use the boxing bag and gloves in the garage. I think I have taught them that I am the parent and they are the children. My rules in the home I pay for are to be followed and I will do what it takes to insure that they are. When they feel as if they can no longer live with those rules, they are welcome to move out with my love and my blessings. As I have said before, the things that you say the article includes are things that I have read before and there are supporting studies and dissenting studies. I have been given the opportunity make a choice and for our family it is the right choice. There are some parents who are more permissive than I am...might work for them. I don't have a child who is battling any addiction, grandbabies or one that dismissed education. Again, I believe my style and the Grace of God contributed to that. They have and will in the future ignore advice, make mistakes and hopefully learn from the consequences. I had to...thank God my parents raised me the way they did.
TheBigQuestion Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 Ahhh, you offerend a different view. It is "what you believe", but it doesn't make it right or true in every parenting situation. Just as my style won't work for every parenting situation. That's the beauty of raising one's own children with the support of like minded people. See you would have resented what others feel shows love and support. I believe my children (as I am not privy to their inner thoughts; only their actions)tend to discuss their anger issues with me or use the boxing bag and gloves in the garage. I think I have taught them that I am the parent and they are the children. My rules in the home I pay for are to be followed and I will do what it takes to insure that they are. When they feel as if they can no longer live with those rules, they are welcome to move out with my love and my blessings. As I have said before, the things that you say the article includes are things that I have read before and there are supporting studies and dissenting studies. I have been given the opportunity make a choice and for our family it is the right choice. There are some parents who are more permissive than I am...might work for them. I don't have a child who is battling any addiction, grandbabies or one that dismissed education. Again, I believe my style and the Grace of God contributed to that. They have and will in the future ignore advice, make mistakes and hopefully learn from the consequences. I had to...thank God my parents raised me the way they did. I'm sorry, but there are certain things in that article that are completely indisputable. The world is fundamentally a safer place than it was 30 years ago in virtually every way as to how it affects children, and yet children are more sheltered and babied than ever before. Child abductions are down. Overall crime is down. Even bullying has seen a considerable decline. The chances of being kidnapped/murdered at random are about as likely as being killed by a meteorite landing on your head. This has nothing to do with being "permissive" or "strict" in the ways you describe. This has to do with a complete ignorance of FACT and COMMON SENSE that so many parents seem to have nowadays. Virtually every action they take regarding their kids seems to be primarily motived by FEAR and secondarily motivated by LOVE. The attitudes that contribute to and arise from the overparenting trend ("permissive" is not "overparenting's" antonym, once again) ABSOLUTELY contribute to poorer physical health and poorer social skills, and it seems obvious to me (and to the minority of parents out there with actual common sense) that sheltering children from the world makes them less able to adequately deal with it. If your children have turned out as well as you say they do, I'm pretty sure that you did plenty of things that are fundamentally different from what is being described in this article (and anything that could emerge from similar attitudes).
Art_Critic Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 TheBigQuestion.. Do you consider yourself an overbearing parent ?
TheBigQuestion Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 TheBigQuestion.. Do you consider yourself an overbearing parent ? Kind of hard to be one when you don't have kids.
Art_Critic Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 Kind of hard to be one when you don't have kids. ahhhh.. I was going to make reference to how overbearing you are being on this thread but since you don't have kids then I won't. I will say that until I became a Step Father and then later on in life became a Father that my idea of parenting before I had kids is nothing like it is/was then and is today.. It was an interesting article but since my wife and I became parents we have learned that what works today doesn't always work tomorrow, our parenting style has changed just in the little time he has been on this earth
Tayla Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 artcritic, Thanks for at least acknowledging that the article was read. It did have some important facts to reconsider. As well you said, times change and the article is simply following how that change has affected the skills and reasonings of some parents. Which then in turn affects the society as a whole. Okay with that said, BNB is opposing just as much as BigQ is. Neither is right or wrong in standing on principle. THey are just on extremes. BigQ is working to open folks views and at least entertain that there is some valid facts in the article. Its fallen on some deaf ears though and that cant be changed if willingness is depleted. Just soo grateful that nothing is written in stone, even the ways we parent Well I recant here, cavemen wrote in stone
Art_Critic Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 BigQ is working to open folks views and at least entertain that there is some valid facts in the article. I don't want to speak for BigQ but he also seems to speak from the viewpoint of having lived some of what is in that article.. (I got that from reading his past threads and if I'm wrong BigQ then I apologize) and that kind of viewpoint has great merit.. Speaking from experience of parenting he may not be able to do that but speaking from the child's viewpoint he can so maybe some of the posters will look at what he posted differently knowing this.
turnera Posted July 15, 2010 Posted July 15, 2010 I read that article when it came out, and I totally agree that today's parents are going crazy with the helicoptering. That said, I also totally agree that children's brains develop gradually. When you hide your face behind your hands, a 6 month old thinks you disappeared. When you ask a 9 year old would she like to go to bed now, she will say NO! When you tell a 15 year old that if she skips school she'll be spending the weekend writing a 15 page book report, she reconsiders skipping school. A teenager's job is to push boundaries. It's part of how they learn to fly the coop. And, at that stage, it is a parent's job NOT to be their friend, but to be the cop, the one who gives her consequences for stupid decisions so that she learns not to do it again. The child NEEDS the parent to set hard boundaries - with love. I did it by talking to my DD19 all the time, by explaining why I set the rules, by ALWAYS listening to her and NEVER judging her (which really shocked her), and giving her lots and lots of logic - that way, the reasons are logical and she can't argue them. Well, she can try, lol, but she usually realized going into it that my reasoning WAS sound and she didn't have a leg to stand on. More learning going on there. But all the while I was showing her love through those actions. I never let her doubt for one minute that I would restrict her, punish her, monitor her, if she did something that lost my trust of her. She started out with my trust, but she knew that mess-ups would lose her that trust and she'd have to regain it. But she knew that those restrictions and punishments and monitoring would have come about because of what SHE chose to do. Now, some parents didn't take my approach, some didn't study child psychology as much as I did, and they ended up with a kid who aggressively pushes boundaries, thinks they can't trust their parents, believes it's their job to get one over on their parents. Once that child becomes a teenager, my approach is more important than ever - control, with love. Teenagers are impulsive; they show a marked inability to see the bigger picture or to avoid rash decisions. As such, letting them know they will face consequences is often the ONLY way to get through to them, once they have lost fear of and respect for their parents. At that point, it's a parent's job to just keep their kid safe until they graduate. And that often means grounding, monitoring, and punishing. Those kids will grow up, someday. Hopefully you've kept them safe, relatively drug and alcohol free, and out of jail until then.
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