Hazyhead Posted July 5, 2010 Posted July 5, 2010 In my IC, something came up that really made me think (more than usual I mean), she mentioned that I sought out in xMM a 'rescuer' type. I've never thought of myself as going for this type of man before but when we started talking about it, it made sense. Basically, all the previous relationships I've had have been with men who allowed me my sense of freedom, allowed me to make all the decisions and would never argue with me. In my last relationship, this was very much the case - he was a lovely guy, but I wore the pants, so to speak and, when things started to go the way I was uncomfortable with (big wedding plans) I didn't know how to put the breaks on, or explain myself, because I'd never had to. I'd always had a happy life with no real problems. So I didn't face things. Instead I sought somebody out who would let me escape from it all. xMM saw himself as a bit of a 'rescuer' in his marriage, having helped his wife get out of an abusive home (this is all stuff I found out much later) and 'protected' her from her family afterwards. Maybe I saw this trait in him? I think also I wanted a break from being decision maker and just wanted to be looked after for a change; wanted to feel like the 'little woman', which he also did for me and I went happily along with it. It was so refreshing! I now am working through why I ran from my problems instead of facing them, but the reason for my posting is the rescuer thing. I wonder how many men (wouldn't normally put the gender on this but it feels like it will mainly be men) in affairs try to play the rescuer role, or think they do, with either their AP or BS. Maybe the person the rescuer really needs to save is them?
Fieldsofgold Posted July 5, 2010 Posted July 5, 2010 In my IC, something came up that really made me think (more than usual I mean), she mentioned that I sought out in xMM a 'rescuer' type. I've never thought of myself as going for this type of man before but when we started talking about it, it made sense. Basically, all the previous relationships I've had have been with men who allowed me my sense of freedom, allowed me to make all the decisions and would never argue with me. In my last relationship, this was very much the case - he was a lovely guy, but I wore the pants, so to speak and, when things started to go the way I was uncomfortable with (big wedding plans) I didn't know how to put the breaks on, or explain myself, because I'd never had to. I'd always had a happy life with no real problems. So I didn't face things. Instead I sought somebody out who would let me escape from it all. xMM saw himself as a bit of a 'rescuer' in his marriage, having helped his wife get out of an abusive home (this is all stuff I found out much later) and 'protected' her from her family afterwards. Maybe I saw this trait in him? I think also I wanted a break from being decision maker and just wanted to be looked after for a change; wanted to feel like the 'little woman', which he also did for me and I went happily along with it. It was so refreshing! I now am working through why I ran from my problems instead of facing them, but the reason for my posting is the rescuer thing. I wonder how many men (wouldn't normally put the gender on this but it feels like it will mainly be men) in affairs try to play the rescuer role, or think they do, with either their AP or BS. Maybe the person the rescuer really needs to save is them? I don't know for sure, but I think a lot of OW think they are somehow rescuing the MM from the cold, loveless, unaffectionate and uncaring W.
LostMe Posted July 5, 2010 Posted July 5, 2010 You've just described me to a T! I like my freedom, independence, I generally have a happy go lucky outlook. I shy away from anything I think will upset me...books, films, anything 'emotional'. I'm learning that this is not healthy! I used xMM to escape a stressful time. I wanted some romance, my H is a bit of a geezer and doesn't really know what this means! But he's learning too. Anyway, I never thought of xMM as A 'rescuer' but something rings true...I certainly felt that he would look after me whereas H likes me to wear the trousers. Hmmm...
califnan Posted July 5, 2010 Posted July 5, 2010 I now am working through why I ran from my problems instead of facing them, but the reason for my posting is the rescuer thing. I wonder how many men (wouldn't normally put the gender on this but it feels like it will mainly be men) in affairs try to play the rescuer role, or think they do, with either their AP or BS. Maybe the person the rescuer really needs to save is them? ----------------------- I think the MM wish to Think they are the rescuer of - or ingratiating the lives of the diff women .. Makes them feel good .. "I ran from my problems instead of facing them" .. I wonder how many would say that they had problems in their life and the A temporarily masted those problems over, or took them off track of taking care of pre-existing problems.. It's like being institutionalized - your problems are still waiting for you when you get out..
jj33 Posted July 5, 2010 Posted July 5, 2010 (edited) xMM liked the idea that he could help me. He never did in the ways that he could have, but he liked the idea that he could. I think that is part of why he has to tear me down now. But he liked the idea that I was a little bit lost when he met me in various ways and I looked to him for guidance. And I definitely saw rescuer in him. He never came through in that way, I ended up rescuing him in certain ways but I am not the type that men rescue and he was so seemed so strong and so dominant that it seemed like he could rescue me. Didnt work out that way at all. Edited July 5, 2010 by jj33
Fallen Angel Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 ----------------------- I think the MM wish to Think they are the rescuer of - or ingratiating the lives of the diff women .. Makes them feel good .. "I ran from my problems instead of facing them" .. I wonder how many would say that they had problems in their life and the A temporarily masted those problems over, or took them off track of taking care of pre-existing problems.. It's like being institutionalized - your problems are still waiting for you when you get out.. Nan, Excuse me, but can you please explain what you mean? I have seen you talk about a man "ingratiating the lives of women" before, and I do not understand what you mean by that anymore this time than I did the last time. Ingratiating means [COLOR=#333333]1. [/COLOR] charming; agreeable; pleasing. [COLOR=#333333]2. [/COLOR]deliberately meant to gain favor Do you possibly mean he feels he is enhancing their lives? Please explain.
califnan Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 Nan, Excuse me, but can you please explain what you mean? I have seen you talk about a man "ingratiating the lives of women" before, and I do not understand what you mean by that anymore this time than I did the last time. Ingratiating means [COLOR=#333333]1. [/COLOR] charming; agreeable; pleasing. [COLOR=#333333]2. [/COLOR]deliberately meant to gain favor Do you possibly mean he feels he is enhancing their lives? Please explain. -------------------- Yes FA .. I meant ingratiate the same as enchance. BUT .. This time I was using it to say he "thinks" he is ingratiating the life.. (and I know you will be the first to say that it is true that he enhances your life).. BUT .. The other times I have said it - was to say that the OW is used by the MM to ingratiate His life.. or to add even more To his life and his marriage.
Fallen Angel Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 I think if men are honest, they almost all have a touch of KISAS (Knight In Shining Armor Syndrome). The problem is that most women these days do not need or want to be rescued. Because of that, men feel like they are not needed. A man appreciates a woman who allows him to "save" her now and then. Even if it is something silly like opening a jar of pickles. Being the one who has to pump the gas at the petrol station. etc. I have said it until i am blue in the face and people asked me to quit talking about it, lmao, but if you do not allow a man to feel he is doing his job as provider and protector (what men are genetically predispositioned to do) they will seek out someone who will. Hazy, you admit that you were in a place where you just wanted a soft place to land for awhile. It is okay to admit that. We all need to do that sometimes. But if you mix your desire for a soft landing, and a man's desire to be that soft landing, you can very easily end up in the situation you found yourself in! As to if he needs saving, the answer is likely, yes. Getting him to admit to that however, is a whole different ball game. He needs rescuing from the "male ideals" he has ingrained in his DNA. Not something that you are likely to be able to provide. The problem with men with KISAS is that they don't know how to let go of the unattainable goals that they set for themselves. The goal of being able to be everything to everybody all the time. Could you imagine the stress trying to live up to that would cause?
Fallen Angel Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 -------------------- Yes FA .. I meant ingratiate the same as enchance. BUT .. This time I was using it to say he "thinks" he is ingratiating the life.. (and I know you will be the first to say that it is true that he enhances your life).. BUT .. The other times I have said it - was to say that the OW is used by the MM to ingratiate His life.. or to add even more To his life and his marriage. Okay. I was unaware that ingratiate and enhance were interchangable. Yes, I willingly admit that he enhances my life in many ways. And I agree that I too enhance his life. However I disagree that I enhance his marriage. I will not go into why I disagree as I am certain that would lead to a thread jack of which I do not wish to be a part of.
Mombot Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 I definitely feel I enhance his life, but do not feel I am integrated into his life,As it stands, I don't think I want to be.
Susmay Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 I don't know for sure, but I think a lot of OW think they are somehow rescuing the MM from the cold, loveless, unaffectionate and uncaring W. There's been quite a lot said about the KISAS syndrome. However not so much said about the damsel in shining armour (DISH) rescuing the knight in distress (KID). It can work both ways I think.
MorningCoffee Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 the reason for my posting is the rescuer thing. I wonder how many men (wouldn't normally put the gender on this but it feels like it will mainly be men) in affairs try to play the rescuer role, or think they do, with either their AP or BS. Maybe the person the rescuer really needs to save is them? Speaking for myself, as an SOM, what my fMW/AP said she got from me was enough for me to feel that I and our A were good for her. I liked feeling I helped her in some significant ways, but I was not setting out to rescue. Still, whatever those unmet needs were that I somehow addressed in her, they were not being met in her M so it felt validating. And yes, another lesson learned -- the importance of beginning to pay more respect to my own needs -- shows that there's plenty to work on right here in me.
White Flower Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 In my IC, something came up that really made me think (more than usual I mean), she mentioned that I sought out in xMM a 'rescuer' type. I've never thought of myself as going for this type of man before but when we started talking about it, it made sense. Basically, all the previous relationships I've had have been with men who allowed me my sense of freedom, allowed me to make all the decisions and would never argue with me. In my last relationship, this was very much the case - he was a lovely guy, but I wore the pants, so to speak and, when things started to go the way I was uncomfortable with (big wedding plans) I didn't know how to put the breaks on, or explain myself, because I'd never had to. I'd always had a happy life with no real problems. So I didn't face things. Instead I sought somebody out who would let me escape from it all. xMM saw himself as a bit of a 'rescuer' in his marriage, having helped his wife get out of an abusive home (this is all stuff I found out much later) and 'protected' her from her family afterwards. Maybe I saw this trait in him? I think also I wanted a break from being decision maker and just wanted to be looked after for a change; wanted to feel like the 'little woman', which he also did for me and I went happily along with it. It was so refreshing! I now am working through why I ran from my problems instead of facing them, but the reason for my posting is the rescuer thing. I wonder how many men (wouldn't normally put the gender on this but it feels like it will mainly be men) in affairs try to play the rescuer role, or think they do, with either their AP or BS. Maybe the person the rescuer really needs to save is them? Very interesting topic Hazyhead! I absolutely believe that my MM was the rescuer in all his As before me and that he was the one who actually needed rescuing. And I am guilty of trying to rescue HIM. This is different for him and it has made him, I feel, bonded with me. But, it HAS taken its toll on us because trying to figure him out can be a bit too much at times and that is why I'm backing off. He really needs to do this work on himself, for himself. I'm sure it's just easier deflecting your problems onto someone else (when MM was rescuing others) or at least enjoying the distraction because dealing with your own pain can be, well, painful! I wish him the best in his IC journey and I wish you the best in yours. Hugs!
White Flower Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 I don't know for sure, but I think a lot of OW think they are somehow rescuing the MM from the cold, loveless, unaffectionate and uncaring W. This may be true for a handful, perhaps younger and more...shall we say...innocent OW? I saw early on the MM needed rescuing from himself, his youth, everything that he colored perfect but I knew deep down wasn't. Nobody's life is that perfect, no matter how much they paint it so. Damn, this is all about self-discovery isn't it.
Fallen Angel Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 There's been quite a lot said about the KISAS syndrome. However not so much said about the damsel in shining armour (DISH) rescuing the knight in distress (KID). It can work both ways I think. The DISH rescuing the KID. CUTE! I think it can work both ways. The KISA wants to save the DID (Damsel in Distress) by fighting dragons for her. The DISH wants to save the KID by mothering him. Two different approaches with the same end result in mind. To make the other person feel gratitude and affection. (In that order I think.)
OWoman Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 I wonder how many men (wouldn't normally put the gender on this but it feels like it will mainly be men) in affairs try to play the rescuer role, or think they do, with either their AP or BS. Maybe the person the rescuer really needs to save is them? This definitely was the case with my H. He wanted to rescue her from her brokenness and fix her, and when he found out she was in an abusive M, then he simply HAD to rescue her! Sadly, he didn't realise until too late that SHE was the abuser and her xH the victim, until it happened to him, too... And yes, ultimately it was him that needed rescuing. Luckily he had good IC which helped him to escape, and to address both his KISAS and his KID aspects. Like others, I've never needed rescuing either - always been a "sisters are doing it for themselves" type with my Rosie the Riveter attitude - so it was a learning experience for me to accept being taken care of in small ways, and allowing myself to reciprocate in other ways. It definitely does enhance the R Even though I've always felt it's better to love someone than to need them, I think people like to feel they add value to someone's life in a way that isn't just decorative.
Spark1111 Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 That's it on the money, Hazyhead. They cannot/do not have the strength or courage to introspect and save themselves, so they are drawn to saving others. It's a diversion. There is a great book out by two women psychologists about this. Google it. Darn! Can't remember it! KISA? Try "rapacious rescuees"? Sorry not to be more helpful. They talk of the the types of recuers, and then they talk of the differing types of "rescuees"; what needs are filled and why and where they may come from.
2sure Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 There comes a time in the lives of many men - especially married family men , when reality strikes and they feel under appreciated by their wives and children, no longer the hero they or he once thought he would be. The future they dreamed of has arrived, goals possibly met and still - they want and feel they deserve more. They want to be a hero to someone. The golden boy, the martyr, the saint , the sacrificing victim. They want to have that what if relationship. And like it or not, to be a hero they need someone in a vulnerable position.
freestyle Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 Karpman's Drama Triangle comes to mind here. http://www.lynneforrest.com/html/the_faces_of_victim.html
Author Hazyhead Posted July 6, 2010 Author Posted July 6, 2010 But he liked the idea that I was a little bit lost when he met me in various ways and I looked to him for guidance. And I definitely saw rescuer in him. He never came through in that way, I ended up rescuing him in certain ways but I am not the type that men rescue and he was so seemed so strong and so dominant that it seemed like he could rescue me. Didnt work out that way at all. I identify with this JJ. I was kind of floundering a little, letting life pass me rather than deal with things. He seemed so calm and strong and I turned the wrong way in the storm for something to grab on to to ground me.
jj33 Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 Very well put I turned the wrong way looking for something to ground me. Life seemed so unreal at that point it felt like Cinderella finding Prince Charming. But it wasnt. It was just a fairy tale.... turned into a fable (you know those morality tales I swear my situation has gone from something I thought I would cherish forever to a very ugly cautionary tale. I remember once seeing a sign that said "What happens if Prince Charming never arrives".... (like take care of yourself dont wait to be rescued...)
Author Hazyhead Posted July 6, 2010 Author Posted July 6, 2010 I think if men are honest, they almost all have a touch of KISAS (Knight In Shining Armor Syndrome). The problem is that most women these days do not need or want to be rescued. Because of that, men feel like they are not needed. A man appreciates a woman who allows him to "save" her now and then. Even if it is something silly like opening a jar of pickles. Being the one who has to pump the gas at the petrol station. etc. I have said it until i am blue in the face and people asked me to quit talking about it, lmao, but if you do not allow a man to feel he is doing his job as provider and protector (what men are genetically predispositioned to do) they will seek out someone who will. Hazy, you admit that you were in a place where you just wanted a soft place to land for awhile. It is okay to admit that. We all need to do that sometimes. But if you mix your desire for a soft landing, and a man's desire to be that soft landing, you can very easily end up in the situation you found yourself in! As to if he needs saving, the answer is likely, yes. Getting him to admit to that however, is a whole different ball game. He needs rescuing from the "male ideals" he has ingrained in his DNA. Not something that you are likely to be able to provide. The problem with men with KISAS is that they don't know how to let go of the unattainable goals that they set for themselves. The goal of being able to be everything to everybody all the time. Could you imagine the stress trying to live up to that would cause? I get you completely FA; this is something that I'm learning - let a man look after you a little; don't be all, 'I can do it!' Actually I am also learning to enjoy this, like I said earlier, being the little lady He did try to do everything for everyone all the time, even citing his responsibilities (not that I ever asked) towards his wife's extended family as being a reason he couldn't deal with things "right now", as nobody else ever did anything. I'm not giving this as reasons, you understand, just echoing his words. What a hero, eh? He 'rescued' me when it suited him of course, as being the AP in an affair is most likely. There for me when he could be, not when I needed him. This became more and more evident as the affair went on and he dug himself deeper and deeper.
Author Hazyhead Posted July 6, 2010 Author Posted July 6, 2010 And I am guilty of trying to rescue HIM. This is different for him and it has made him, I feel, bonded with me. But, it HAS taken its toll on us because trying to figure him out can be a bit too much at times and that is why I'm backing off. He really needs to do this work on himself, for himself. White Flower, I might be wrong, but it always seems that more than anything, you being there to rescue him takes its toll on you. I'm glad you're standing back and letting him save himself as this will allow you to put your efforts into yourself and heal from the trauma. He's still there and whilst this is the case, you put yourself first. Hugs back!
Author Hazyhead Posted July 6, 2010 Author Posted July 6, 2010 Like others, I've never needed rescuing either - always been a "sisters are doing it for themselves" type with my Rosie the Riveter attitude - so it was a learning experience for me to accept being taken care of in small ways, and allowing myself to reciprocate in other ways. It definitely does enhance the R Even though I've always felt it's better to love someone than to need them, I think people like to feel they add value to someone's life in a way that isn't just decorative. I like this OW It's validating to look after one another. Plus sometimes I just can't be fecked to do it myself
Author Hazyhead Posted July 6, 2010 Author Posted July 6, 2010 That's it on the money, Hazyhead. They cannot/do not have the strength or courage to introspect and save themselves, so they are drawn to saving others. It's a diversion. There is a great book out by two women psychologists about this. Google it. Darn! Can't remember it! KISA? Try "rapacious rescuees"? Sorry not to be more helpful. They talk of the the types of recuers, and then they talk of the differing types of "rescuees"; what needs are filled and why and where they may come from. Do you know Spark, I'm convinced he will go on to repeat his pattern. He will move on to somebody else who seems to have problems because his own overwhelm him and he has never known where to start in dealing with them. Even when he did attend IC (at the request of his wife) he lied his ass off, telling her what he thought were the right things to say I would always say, 'Why don't you just open up and tell the truth? That's one safe place for you to do so.' He would always give me the response that he was only doing it to pacify his wife. I honestly think that he just didn't want to open up the can for fear of the mess the worms would bring.
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