AVR1962 Posted July 5, 2010 Posted July 5, 2010 Husband and I have been together 21 years, I persued him, parents saw it very one-sided but everytime I tried to break things off he would beg me to stay. He had not dated in the 3 years since his divorce, thought women were not interested in him, rather nerdy type. Only son and the apple of his family's eye. Very detached person, no real close friends. Bitter about his mother's control over him as a young person. I am an energetic person, he is a couch potato. In 21 years of marriage there has been drinking and porn issues, both of which we have had counseling for. Counselor felt husband had a problem with limitations (at least 30 lbs over weight). 95% of the intiation for sex has been from me from even the very start....says he hates rejection and was hurt by his first love and swore he'd never let himself get hurt like that again. he is 50, I am 47. Fast forward to today.....I'd still been angry over him getting upset at me for not going to him for sex which was a recent topic (like it it my duty to fullfill him, he wasn't coming to me and I have gotten tired of me being the one to go to him so I stopped). He said that his going out with the guys for beers and not calling to let me know, was because he saw no point as it seemed I wasn't interested in the marriage anymore (based on me not going to him for sex). That's when he said that I had to have everything my way and that everything is my idea......he never has an idea but this apparently had caused resentment. So here I am the ideas person, otherwise we spend no time together, and he sees it as me being controlling. I decided to join husband on a business trip this past week, I met him there. When I arrived all I wanted to do was go to the pool to cool off, husband joined me.He was wanting to be all playful in the water like we were newlyweds or something (I know this was him trying) but he was saying how hot I looked in my swimsuit and that when I went to the get in the pool he said "go ahead so I can check you out." This is the crappy garbage I find inmature, his complements are sexually oriented and I find them disgusting. I have told him many times how to compliment me without it being sexually based but that goes in one ear and right out the other. Then he's all trying to hug me in the water, I just got out. Later I fired up our lap top so we'd have Internet access and started looking thru pic files and come across this file dated 9/09 full of women's pictures.....women all busty, even a slim young oriental bending over, I was so pissed but I did not say a word.....all this happened on day1. Day 2 and 3 were generally a good with the exception of husband checking out every young chick who walked. Day 4 everything started falling apart...... rude people, lousy service.....no big deal, tension is building but I am trying to let it go. We chilled out by the pool, played a game had a good afternoon. Back at the hotel husband sat in one of the chairs so I could not see what he was doing on his phone, he's got a new phone that accesses the Internet which knowing him might not be all that good. Our teen daughter walked behind him to see what he was doing and asks what he was reading about. Husband said there was some heavy top model who recently lost weight and he was just reading about that. My mind went "bling" MODEL, I know exactly what he was doing. I wasn't able to get back on the Internet that night but the next day I checked out the article and sure enough here's all these model pics in swimsuit poses so I made the comment that I knew why he was checking it out, husband was all full of non-sense about how he was really interested in the article, ha! This is soooooooo typicallyof my husband. At this point I'd had enough, I went to breakfast by myself and when husband came out I went to the room and packed my stuff. I ahve learned that expressing my feelings do not good, have tried it for years. I get apologies and but then things never change. We left for the airport where I nearly hit an old ladyon a bike coming up behind me and then nearly got hit by a car coming the other direction.....at that point I said I was DONE, done with everything! This had been no vacation. We got to the airport and husband could not take his eyes off this very young blonde girl. I finally asked if he'd like me to take a picture for him. He acts all bewildered. I told him I could put on the computer with the rest of the girl pics he had on there for jack-off material. He tells me that the pics were not his but that he had asked a friend for them, how convenient! His head had been wrapped around sex the whole trip and I lost it and I told him so, he just sat there as if I had said nothing. He never did make a comment. Since I had joined him I had to pick up the rental car which I drove the whole time because my name was the only one autorized. Husband was a typical back-seat driver the whole time, checking to make sure I was clear to change lanes, checking mirrors, telling me where to turn. I knew the area and by golly I could never do this to him or he'd hold grudges and years later tell me how upset he was over me telling him how to drive but it's okay when the shoe is on the other foot. So it really pissed me off that he was doing this. Maybe he was just trying to help but after everything else that's happened I saw it as him trying to control me and the situation. We got home, we have 3 dogs and 2 cats, pet sitter comes in several times a day to care for pets but after 5 days the floors are full of hair. I started laundry, cleaned the floors, watered all the outside plants, filled the pond......I had to burn off some of my tension. Husband sorted his clothes, scopped the cat box and then got on the computer and did not attempt to lift a finger to help. It was 1 1/2 hours past feeding time for the dogs and husband was starting to think of his own hunger and asks me if I had an idea for dinner. I told him that I had been too busy to think about dinner and I let go on him. I asked him how he thought he could just sit on the computer when there was so much to do, he didn't answer. Oh then guess what he does? He starts trimming the dead roses! What? I fed the dogs, got the rabbit out of her pen to get some fresh grass, continued to work on laundry and then I decided I was NOT sticking around to eat frozen dinners which looked like what husband was going to prepare. I told him that I needed to check on a freind's cat and that I would get dinner while I was out so not to worry about dinner for me. He then tells me he'd like to come with me if I didn't mind. I told him he could but that I was pissed and just beyond bewilderment at that point. We got to the restuarant and husband was trying to make small conversation and I was not willing. He never answered me in the airport and he never answered me about his contributing at home and I was still seething from all that, and he wanted to ignore it and make small talk? Forget that! Is there something I am missing here? Is there something about male thinking that I am not getting? I ask myself why I have stayed, why I am here, I see no future for us. I am so angry with my husband and to be honest I think he is plenty mad at me. I am done with his little 'you hurt my feelings' games and trying to guess what he wants and trying to make things work with him. His head has always been wrapped around other women, always, even when we were dating but when it comes to me, it was like I was there strictly to please him and it had to be me that was going to him. I think in our whole marriage I maybe turned him down for sex a dozen times and he said that those turn-downs made him feel rejected. Rejected? Who's being rejected.....I have persued him, he had not persued me. I am the one always trying to mend thisngs, not him. So I guess I was supposed to just have sex with him even when I didn't want to? I remember those rejections coming when I was already asleep and he'd wake me up fondling me OR when I was sick......the only times I recall come-ons from him were when I was most vulnerable, otherwise it was his hubba-bubba let's F**** type come-ons that totally turned me off. I have talked and I have talked and I have talked but he never hears what I say, nothing makes a difference and right now I just don't even want to try.
demrea Posted July 5, 2010 Posted July 5, 2010 What's wrong with a sexually oriented compliment? You sound like a repressed stick in the mud!
LucreziaBorgia Posted July 5, 2010 Posted July 5, 2010 (edited) This is the crappy garbage I find inmature, his complements are sexually oriented and I find them disgusting. Your husband compliments you and tries to show you affection, and you think it is disgusting and cut him off? Why are you surprised that he would be looking for a sexual outlet when his own wife apparently puts his sexual overtures in the "disgusting" category? Your monitoring and discussing of his picture viewing sounds like a mother chastising her son. Perhaps he is having trouble putting you in a sexual category because of this (hence a need of an alternate sexual outlet) and because you find his sexuality disgusting. I suspect that he doesn't really think of you sexually rarely if at all (I know I would not think of my SO in a sexual way if he treated me like a child instead of a partner) and is trying to find ways to placate you the only way he knows how, and is failing. Edited July 5, 2010 by LucreziaBorgia
demrea Posted July 5, 2010 Posted July 5, 2010 Your husband compliments you and tries to show you affection, and you think it is disgusting and cut him off? Why are you surprised that he would be looking for a sexual outlet when his own wife apparently puts his sexual overtures in the "disgusting" category? Your monitoring and discussing of his picture viewing sounds like a mother chastising her son. Perhaps he is having trouble putting you in a sexual category because of this (hence a need of an alternate sexual outlet) and because you find his sexuality disgusting. I suspect that he doesn't really think of you sexually rarely if at all (I know I would not think of my SO in a sexual way if he treated me like a child instead of a partner) and is trying to find ways to placate you the only way he knows how, and is failing. Said so much better then me, well done! I hope she responds, I am interested in a sincere response.
califnan Posted July 5, 2010 Posted July 5, 2010 AVR, You had me at: You approach him for sex, he goes out with the guys and blames you for not approaching him for sex, he wants to check you out as you get into the pool - and then all of a sudden act playful.. Continue with your life and do more things for yourself, by yourself - until (hopefully) he comes around and begins to Cherish you - as a husband should love and cherish his wife.
Jack & Coke Posted July 5, 2010 Posted July 5, 2010 Just an observation, it seems that there are a lot of things you don't like about your husband. First it was the way he acted when he went to get beers, then his comments were too sexual, then it was that he was looking at other women, then the pictures, then the backseat driving, then not helping around the house, then when he did help you didn't like the job he chose to do, see what I'm saying? I think you need to find out what your biggest issue with him is, because that seems to be magnifying every little thing he does that you don't like. The pool for couples can be a sexy, playful place and he knows you want him to initiate sex more, so I think you should have in that moment told him what would turn you on instead of storming out. It seemed that after the whole mess before he was trying to pursue you for once. Because of the way that was handled it looked like you were mad at tons of other things and the whole trip spun out of control.
georgia girl Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 I have to say, AVR, I agree with Jack and Coke. I'm not sure what you expected, but your husband was flirting with you. As you note, he has somewhat fragile self-confidence. However, he was listening to your complaints and I think he took your willingness to go on this trip as a signal that you wanted to resume sexual relations. Maybe his attempt at flirting wasn't quite what you were looking for, I certainly think he tried. I also think that you shooting him down pretty much sealed your fate. He's not going to go back down that road for a pretty long time. Additionally, I think he'll also listened to your complaints about not helping out around the house and he tried to help, once again to get shot down. I don't presume to understand your relationship or the years and water that's gone under your marital bridge. But, if at this point in time, your spouse is trying and you still want this to work, perhaps you ought to go with the flow just a bit more? My fiance can be somewhat awkward when it comes to flirting at times. I nearly laughed when he made an unknowing sexual reference the other night at dinner when we were out with my future in-laws (who know he lives with me). When he realized his statement was a little more sexual than he had actually intended, he got incredibly embarassed. Instead of getting angry, I put an arm around him, grinned and said, "He's such a romantic devil but I love him!" His parents laughed and we had a great rest of the evening - especially after we got home!
califnan Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 I had a friend who once told me that her continued initiating sex (and even begging for it) with her husband .. eventually caused her to feel hurt and leading to frigidness. I wonder if AVR has repressed her feelings of hurt with her husband and she is feeling that he is not acting romantic - and all other is too little, too late..
Author AVR1962 Posted July 6, 2010 Author Posted July 6, 2010 Califnan, you understand perfectly. From the start it was me who persued him, initiated and showed the interest to do things and that's the way it has remained. I feel if someone is interested in you they will ask you to spend time with them but husband did not even while dating. he said it was the ladies in his past relationships that persued him, that he wasn't good with ideas. If I tried to break up, he'd cry and beg me to stay. I tried to hold his hand, he let go. I kissed him in public and he said it was allowed with his career (military). I liked to cuddle at night but touching him was only for sex as my massages or anykind of physical time with him was met with horny comments and erections, he couldn't just cuddle or be close. We'd go out in a group (restaurant) and he'd be oggling over the girls and making safe flirty conversation with the waitress. I asked him what that was about, had been marreid to a man who cheated and didn't want that again. He said that as a single person he would see an attractive lady and he would fantasize what it would be like to have sex with her, said he knew he didn't stand a chance. I'm still talking as a young couple, we were around 30, newlyweds, having sex about 4 times a week, me initiating and I was really trying to please him (ex's affairs in the back of my mind), did things with him just for him and yet what I was giving wasn't enough.....he was jacking-off in the bathroom to porn. Said that the more he got the more he wanted but what I think really was going on is he was a porn addict and I didn't know it at the time. Girls were a walking target for his fantacies and like my first husband no matter what I did and how hard I tried to please him, the addiction had control. Our counselor said that husband's addiction began as a young person, feeling like he woudl not be accepted by the girls he didn't attempt conversation at a time when males start showing an interest. He turned those feelings inward and fantasized what it would be like to be with them instead. I thought being rid of the porn would make a difference but it did not. It continued to be me going to him, me doing everything in the house, me doing all the yard work for many years, me taking care of the kids and the cooking.....me trying to keep a family together, me trying to please my husband and wanting love from him that I felt was not there. With time I felt like a maid, a servant, a cook, and a sperm recepticle. I was not getting anything in return for what I was giving and it was taking a toll on me. He always has kept me at arm's length with interest. Raising the kids brought hardship between us, his drinking was a real issue.....pretty passive person until he reaches a certain point with the drinking. He loved to ignore....kids would ask him something, he heard but never acknowledged and never responded. he liked to walk away while I was speaking. After 15 years of that I finally had it and I grabbed his collar and told him to not walk away from me again. He swung around, twisted my hand, I was fighting him to get awya and then there was a pop.....he had fractured my finger in 2 places. My dad is in the med feild and said that a break woudl have been better for me than a fracture as it has a better chance to heal properly. I spent 6 months in physical therapy and he blamed it on me, said I attacked him.....I did not such thing. he complained about how much milk and toilet paper the kids used, real sticky about money and wanted all our accounts seperate. After years of this I slowly have lost feeling for my husband and I do have alot of hard feelings because of the things he did. I felt I was the one trying and he was the one always pulling away, always looking.....IMs with girls, stip clubs, trying to get into a brothal to 'buy a beer' (please!), admitted and very obvious emotional affairs. It's taken its toll and I know that nothing I did, nothing I said was going to change him or things between us and I stopped letting him in and being vulnerable to the sex just for anykind of intamacy as I knew that's all it would be. I have kept myself up, I am not an unattractive person, I have never cheated on my husband. So there is no doubt that the little stuff have become obsticles that normally would not be there if things were different. I get to feeling guilty at times that I feel the need for time with my husband to show he cares and wants to be with me (I am not a clingy or needy person), I then refocus and out my energy some place else. I woudl love to be held or have my hand held without the gross comments. I would like to be with someone who wants to be with me and cares for me. I don't think that is too much to ask.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 AVR1962 you read a # of responses questioning your OP and what exactly you are trying to get to...... What I see, is every little thing he does is under a microscope and you can't stand him and it has manifested itself around sex. So he looks at other women and may look at some innocent sexual images (models).... Whoop de doo..... Others point that out, yet you find one poster who says what you want to hear Califan and ignore everything else written or even think about those other posts. I didn't even bother reading your second post, which after the first sentence was basically spiraling in to the same nasty nit-picking that the OP was. So my advise.... Get a divorce and find someone else to pursue...
xxoo Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 I would like to be with someone who wants to be with me and cares for me. I don't think that is too much to ask. Then why are you wasting your years with this guy? With all the years of baggage, this "mini-vacation" didn't have a chance! The thing is, nothing he did on the vacation seems so bad to anyone here, but you are seeing all those acts through the lens of years of neglect and mistreatment. Focus on the years, not one week at the pool, and find the strength to leave.
Author AVR1962 Posted July 6, 2010 Author Posted July 6, 2010 Thank goodness I have good friends, some of which who are going thru similiar situations. No matter how much sex I would have given my first husband it would never stopped him from cheating and nothing I do is going ot make a difference with this situation either. Sorry I brought up the subject here.
califnan Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 AVR1962 you read a # of responses questioning your OP and what exactly you are trying to get to...... What I see, is every little thing he does is under a microscope and you can't stand him and it has manifested itself around sex. So he looks at other women and may look at some innocent sexual images (models).... Whoop de doo..... Others point that out, yet you find one poster who says what you want to hear Califan and ignore everything else written or even think about those other posts. I didn't even bother reading your second post, which after the first sentence was basically spiraling in to the same nasty nit-picking that the OP was. So my advise.... Get a divorce and find someone else to pursue... --------------------- If you knew of her second post and "didn't even bother reading" .. why are you responding again - Would it be to counsel her - or get your digs in??
califnan Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 AVR, You seem to wish to save your marriage, otherwise you would have divorced him? If not divorce, and you feel something is salvageable about your marriage - then the only thing I could suggest it for you to do your own thing as far as personal time .. i.e. take walks, classes, join a gym, etc .. Should he not wish to draw closer to you in the spirit, you may wish to take the time to reassess/re-evaluate your marriage..
Toodamnpragmatic Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 --------------------- If you knew of her second post and "didn't even bother reading" .. why are you responding again - Would it be to counsel her - or get your digs in?? Get a divorce.... The story is spiraling out of control.... If it is true it is pathetic and actually it is her fault for letting it reach this point.....
califnan Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 Get a divorce.... The story is spiraling out of control.... If it is true it is pathetic and actually it is her fault for letting it reach this point..... ------------------- Thanks Too, for reading her second post..
Toodamnpragmatic Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 ------------------- Thanks Too, for reading her second post.. I think she is magnifying everything, or completely co-dependent, meaning she needs significant counseling....
giotto Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 you need to have a serious conversation with your husband, although to me it seems there is too much baggage to deal with. Try counselling together and see if you can solve some of the issues. You obviously don't like your husband at the moment, there is a lot of resentment, and I wonder what are you doing with him... give it a last shot and, if doesn't work out, leave...
Author AVR1962 Posted July 6, 2010 Author Posted July 6, 2010 Thank you yet again Califnan.....reavulating is and trying to find myself in all of this is what I am trying to do right now. I think some of the others only read my posts in part and focused where there should not have been focus. The whole situation takes on a lot of little bits and pieces, twists and turns. There's been a great deal of dishonesty and untrustworthy behavior from my husband that keeps me cautious. I perrsonally have had one-on-one counseling and basically they feel if I were more confident I would not be with my husband so I have not returned as I would rather straighten things out. We have 5 children and 5 grandchildren. My first marriage was destroyed by a man who was a sex addict and wanted to please the female world with his special gift. I know 3 other women approx my age who have been in 20 year mariages that are divorcing or divorced for much of the same controlling, selfish behavior, lack of respect, and demanding ways. I see what they are going thru eventhough they weren't happy in their marriages and I really don't want to put myself in that situation. Maybe once our youngest is out of the home I will see less of an obligation to stay but I have never promoted divorce and don't believe it is the solution in most situations.
giotto Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 Maybe once our youngest is out of the home I will see less of an obligation to stay but I have never promoted divorce and don't believe it is the solution in most situations. How old is your youngest? You don't believe in divorce? So you'd rather stay and be destroyed by this man's behaviour? Why?
califnan Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 I'm with you, I try not to promote divorce either.. As when one leaves one situation, they may get into another one even worse. And of course, people don't wish to be alone in their latter years either.. I think some may just feel that it is best to get out of a bad situation and with a fresh start and divorce is supposedly the only way to accomplish this.. I would advise any woman who is in an oppresive situation, to build on her life as far as career (classes).. If a counselor feels you are lacking in confidence .. then to further your interests and rebuild your own life, would be a good start in bringing you to a point of Strengthening yourself and reassessing your marriage.. At the time you are strenthening your life, your husband may be re-evaluating his role as well. You should not have been put in a position to have to guide him or tell him everything..
giotto Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 I'm with you, I try not to promote divorce either.. As when one leaves one situation, they may get into another one even worse. And of course, people don't wish to be alone in their latter years either.. what about not getting in any situation? She can't rebuild herself in the situation she is in now. She needs to sort her marriage out... and people don't wish to be alone in their latter years? Who says? I'd rather be on my own than with a husband like that...
califnan Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 what about not getting in any situation? She can't rebuild herself in the situation she is in now. She needs to sort her marriage out... and people don't wish to be alone in their latter years? Who says? I'd rather be on my own than with a husband like that... ------------------- I am on my own .. When my husband chose indifference, it was the loneliest I had ever been in my entire life.. And I too, would rather be in my world of fulfillment as a whole complete woman, than in a bad marriage. Still if people are in a bad marriage, there must be reasons for not divorcing: either they feel the marriage is salvageable, or they are fearful of divorcing.. Yes, I believe as she Strengthens herself (her life), he will either come together (in the spirit) realizing his role .. or run.
She's_NotInLove_w/Me Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 These issues are definitely workable... IMHO, people on these boards are often quick to dismiss and take a "get a divorce and a fresh start" attitude... First of all your resentment and decision to no longer approach him for sex is a huge roadblock. For all of your years together you have always approached him... I am not for a second saying you should share yourself with your husband and be intimate with him when you have no desire to do so. But you need to get to the root of why you feel the way you do, and start there at resolving that issue. I feel you are hypersensitive to his every action. Way too tightly wound. If you and him were intimate (and both totally into it) several times a week, he would have zero interest and energy to spend elsewhere sexually. Now, don't get me wrong, I know that it is obviously a HUGE gap from where you’re at now... but the two of you need to figure out how to get there. All that said there is an opportunity for him to make strides in his relationship with his wife too. You must make him aware of that, and in a respectful, non-confrontational way, communicate to him what you most need from him. To me the obvious would be his fidelity on all levels (not just physical), but I am very sure there is more you want and need than just that. Define those needs and wants, putting them in words, and communicating them effectively could go a long way. I am thinking a well thought out letter perhaps. You know that with all you have already been through that the two of you can make this work if you want to. It's a choice. Good Luck!
xxoo Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 Forget sexual incompatibities, the porn addiction, the drinking problems, the lousy parenting. This was enough to end the marriage: After 15 years of that I finally had it and I grabbed his collar and told him to not walk away from me again. He swung around, twisted my hand, I was fighting him to get awya and then there was a pop.....he had fractured my finger in 2 places. My dad is in the med feild and said that a break woudl have been better for me than a fracture as it has a better chance to heal properly. I spent 6 months in physical therapy and he blamed it on me, said I attacked him.....I did not such thing. . I'm not even going to blame one person here--but it got physical and ended with a broken bone. And he was unapologetic. This is not "workable", imo. This is an abusive relationship, possibly mutually so.
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