How do I follow through this time?

[ComputerJock]

Why not have daughter and husband find a place to share while daughter saves money and gets her car fixed...two birds with one stone.

 

ComputerJock

[eeyore1981]

What you guys are saying is all true. There's more to the story, though, and I want to try to give as full of a picture as possible, not to defend H, but to try to get the help I need.

 

The communication issue has been ongoing throughout most of our relationship. I'm not sure how long it took for me to actually be able to put my finger on what was going on, but after that, it became harder and harder to deal with. There was some fighting over it in the past, but it really came to a head about a year or so before H had an affair. Since Dday, there has been a small amount of improvement on his part, but IMO, not enough. This still seems to me like a major issue.

 

The sex life. It was really bad for a long time. I tried a lot of things to make it better, and finally resorted to sleeping on the couch, where the harrassment continued for a while and then finally stopped. Before I moved to the couch, I asked and my H agreed to MC. Our MC seemed to have no empathy for my position. During this time, one night in bed, H kept fondling me, and I kept moving his hand away, and it did no good. At this point, I was suffering from sleep deprivation so badly I had been to the dr. 2 or 3 times. That night, I was beginning to get angry, and I knew if I got angry enough I was not going to be able to go back to sleep. H put his hand on me again, and I took one of his fingers and bent it back as far as I could. He got mad, but left me alone. I told this to MC at next (and last) visit, and MC proceeded to ream me for a good 15 minutes about how I was physically abusing my H. He didn't say one word to H about him doing any wrong. So I was left with H and basically the MC telling me I was in the wrong.

 

But, at the same time this was going on, H was being a wonderful father to our children, and he was also being supportive of me during some very bad times with my oldest daughter, before she was murdered. It was like, (and I know how crazy this sounds, but it is different living it day to day than telling it down the road.) other than the sexual problem, everything else between us was good.

 

And this is what it is like now. If I am not dealing with my H's affair and his nonstop lying about it, we have a very good relationship.

[eeyore1981]

Why not have daughter and husband find a place to share while daughter saves money and gets her car fixed...two birds with one stone.

 

ComputerJock

 

Her moving back in with me is a non issue, and if she prefers to move in with her father, that's fine, too.

 

I posted it because it is more drama and stress I really don't need right now, and also to illustrate a little more of how rare it was yesterday for us to have an opportunity to be alone with no interruptions to work out some of our problems, and he just let it slip away. I guess he feels like it has already been almost 3 years, what's another day or month or year to start working on this.

 

I honestly don't know how I let this happen to me. I'm so glad I have IC again tomorrow. Does anyone think it would be unreasonable for me to ask to go in twice a week for a little while instead of just the once? Am I just being a drama queen?

[eeyore1981]

Wow, I was really hoping for more of a pep squad to help me through this. Oh, well...

 

Right now I seem to be doing okay. I'm really trying hard to make this a divorce, and not an attempt at reconciliation.

 

I'm a talker, it's what I need to work through things, but I'm thinking it is in my best interest to not even attempt to talk to H anymore. So I just finished writing him a 2 page letter I will not be giving him, it was just to get some things out of my system. In writing it, it brought me to a few realizations, which has to be a good thing. Maybe I am wrong about what he is thinking, but I refuse to fault myself for it, as he has had, IMO, ample time to correct with words and actions any misunderstandings on my part. He has chosen not to, though I have been more than available, so be it.

 

I don't see any other way to look at it but him keeping his little secret is more important than the 26 years we have spent together. I refuse to believe I am that worthless.

[seren]

Eeyore, after reading what you shared, which I am sure took an awful lot to do, it sounded like you and H are like two people who have escaped a huge shipwreck and are trying to stop drowning. There has been so very, very much turmoil, not just the A, but sounds like a lot of unresolved loss, anger, hurt and pain.

 

I get the not feeling like you deserve any better, the of course something like this would happen to me, the did I really expect to have a good and happy life. I am the survivor of long term SA and rape, when H's A happened it was just another thing in the long line of crap that seems to attach itself to me. I share that, not to take away from what you have said, but to let you know the feeling is not alien to me and that there are others who think this way. You are not going out of your mind.

 

I think that, yes, you need to have a safe place/person to share each unresolved issue with, each alloted its own time and space and each at least discussed before beginning to move on to the next. It will be a long hard road, and I so wish that your H was with you for the journey for he should be the one person who has shared some of what you are going through.

 

I also think that there is so much going on that it must be like being in a spin dryer on max speed, for you both. I know the A has hurt you deeply, I suspect that it is not so much the A (not to minimise) but the fact that H has been your safe place and that is now blown to hell and back. Sorry to make so many assumptions, please disregard if this is the case.

 

I also suppose that the person who you would want to support you is your H, as you say, 26 years is a long time, a lot of history, even if it does sound like you have had a really hard road to travel. It sounds like you are in a flat place and need a reaction to provoke the inaction. please don't hit the self destruct button, even if that is what your head is prompting you to do. I hope there is someone you can trust to get it all out. I hope you and H can begin to discuss both your issues and begin the process of healing (not in a bull****ty happy clappy way) so you can move on to the next chapter of your life.

 

Keep paddling upstream Eeyore. Take very good care. Seren.

[turnstone]

Turnstone, I feel as if I have been in limbo for the past 3 years. I have gone over my options so many times, and I have to sacrifice and feel I lose no matter what choice I make.

Well that's because you haven't followed through on any of it yet. Eeyore, when it comes to situations like this it seems that its always going to feel like you're losing more than you gain until you actually do it.

 

I consulted a lawyer some time ago, and am clear on what my options are there.

 

I've done as you did. I make plans, I do things, and I don't tell him what I'm doing, who I am with, when I will be home, etc. Tuesday will be my 5th IC appointment, and H does not even know I am in therapy.

Well, maybe he needs to know that little snippet, because that's not about the fun you're having without him, that's about the work you're prepared to do and are actually doing.

 

I think you're right to identify IC as the priority. It demonstrates that you are prepared to put yourself first and take care of yourself, which is something you really, really need and deserve.

 

It's almost 7am here, and I've had less than 3 hours sleep. I had a strong urge about 4:30am to go wake H up and go into a rant about why should he get a full night's sleep in our bed while I'm awake from kids coming in in the middle of the night, but I restrained myself. I consider I have made it through the night.

Why the hell is he in the bed? Everything you do should be for your benefit now, not his. From now on every time you are about to do something ask yourself who it benefits and if its not you, don't do it.

 

I suspect your daughter moving back in with you could be a good thing if she's able to be supportive of you.

 

Seren's last post is good stuff Eeyore.

[eeyore1981]

Seren and Turnstone, I appreciate your responses. I have a lot of times where I feel like I am so alone. I'm getting the feeling I am not explaining myself very well, though, so I'll try harder. I did have to smile at the irony, though.

 

In the past, when I have been at my breaking point, and come in here to this forum to post, even as bad as everything is, (and while I know it's bad living it, writing it out makes it even more bad, as I see it more clearly??) the previous times I still wanted to work it out, and I was here hoping people would empathize and give me advice to that end, but most of the posts were telling me to leave. I wasn't ready to do that at that time, and felt I wouldn't make it.

 

This time is different. Turnstone, the reason I haven't mentioned to my H I am in IC is because this isn't about a reconciliation for me anymore. My intro to the therapist was pretty much I am in a horrible marriage, I feel I have tried everything within my power to save it, and now it is time for me to throw in the towel, but I don't know how, please help me heal myself and believe I deserve better. Now I feel I am getting advice to stay.

 

I don't know, maybe I am making a huge mistake. I hoped to be a little further along in therapy, and feel a little more secure about myself before I took this step, but I just couldn't take anymore, and maybe this is the best way.

 

When this first happened, almost 3 years ago, I was stronger, I had more self-confidence, and I had a more positive attitude I could get through this okay. I feel like I have just been beaten down over all this time, and I can't even blame my H for it. When someone tells me they are sorry, and want to work things out, I tend to believe them. We have been through this over and over, but after the initial effort by my H, which sucks me back in, then he is done, and makes no more effort. I have allowed myself to be yanked back and forth since the first of September, 2007. It is now July, 2010. I am exhausted, I am so worn down, and I don't really even trust myself and my feelings anymore.

 

I was trying to keep from discussing this with H anymore, but I slipped and said a little last night, and again this morning. I was just, once again, morally outraged, because once again he has twisted the situation into something it is not. He says he told me the truth, and look what happened. He totally disregards lying to me all this time, again, expecting to be rewarded for finally telling the truth. I told him this morning this is not because he told the truth. This is because we both said we wanted this over with, and we agreed for that to happen we needed to discuss what happened, why it happened, and what steps needed to be taken to try to prevent this from happening again, and yet, he makes no effort to follow through, yet again. This should have been done when it first came out, and it has caused me a lot of unnecessary pain for almost 3 years now, and he is willing to continue to drag it out. I can't do this anymore.

[Spark1111]

Eeyore! ((((((Eeyore!))))))

 

Take your break. Rebuild your confidence. See the IC twice a week.

 

Do whatever you need to do to grow strong and self-assured.

 

You are at the last stage of the process and questioning: Do I respect this person enough to remain with them?

 

Obviously, you do not because you have been doing all the heavy lifting, and he has been skating along on "good enuf."

 

You are smart enough to realize that you have arrived at the make or break point for you.

 

I have read that when a relationship is TRULY over, a man feels nothing....he is as emotionally distant as the moon.

 

A woman feels contempt. Are you now contemptuous of him? Examine that in IC.

 

I wish you strength to make whatever decision is best for you.

 

(((((Hugs!))))

[eeyore1981]

I was just thinking my attitude towards my marriage has been like a bad gambling addiction. About the time I realize I can't lose anymore, I start getting some back, so I fool myself into thinking I am going to at least break even, but I quickly start losing again.

 

Part of why I have stayed is because I wanted to 'get even'. I thought a lot about a RA, and even took steps to have one, but I wasn't able to follow through. I have had some anger with myself over that, and this was a hard feeling to overcome. Even after chickening out the first time, I still thought it sounded like a great idea, but I've finally come to accept that my heart just isn't in it.

 

H has a long history of 'reforming' at the last possible moment, but I hope he doesn't this time. It will hurt my feelings and make me feel unloved if he doesn't, but in the long run, I think it will be easier on me if I don't have to deal with telling him no more.

 

I'm so tired. I wish I understood better. He told me he wanted a divorce and then I found out he was cheating on me. I didn't ask to reconcile, he did. When I agreed, I didn't go in being a bitch about it. I wanted to work it out and be happy together, and it took months and months of lies from him before I even started thinking revenge and punishment. Why the ef did he do this? I was at my lawyer's when he called me, if he wasn't even willing to work on this, why didn't he just let it be? We could be divorced and 3 years on with our separate lives now. What a bastard. Was it just to get as much more hurt out of me as possible? Did he not think he had hurt me enough?

[2sunny]

I was just thinking my attitude towards my marriage has been like a bad gambling addiction. About the time I realize I can't lose anymore, I start getting some back, so I fool myself into thinking I am going to at least break even, but I quickly start losing again.

 

Part of why I have stayed is because I wanted to 'get even'. I thought a lot about a RA, and even took steps to have one, but I wasn't able to follow through. I have had some anger with myself over that, and this was a hard feeling to overcome. Even after chickening out the first time, I still thought it sounded like a great idea, but I've finally come to accept that my heart just isn't in it.

 

H has a long history of 'reforming' at the last possible moment, but I hope he doesn't this time. It will hurt my feelings and make me feel unloved if he doesn't, but in the long run, I think it will be easier on me if I don't have to deal with telling him no more.

 

I'm so tired. I wish I understood better. He told me he wanted a divorce and then I found out he was cheating on me. I didn't ask to reconcile, he did. When I agreed, I didn't go in being a bitch about it. I wanted to work it out and be happy together, and it took months and months of lies from him before I even started thinking revenge and punishment. Why the ef did he do this? I was at my lawyer's when he called me, if he wasn't even willing to work on this, why didn't he just let it be? We could be divorced and 3 years on with our separate lives now. What a bastard. Was it just to get as much more hurt out of me as possible? Did he not think he had hurt me enough?

 

it's time for you to love yourself enough - so that you find that this isn't enough... what he has offered doesn't set well with you for a reason - he hasn't been honest.

 

HE is to blame - for keeping the truth from you in order to save face. he is only thinking of himself.

 

he wanted a divorce? give it to him - he has suffered no consequences, thus - the reason for being unmotivated to change.

 

you can't possibly be happy if nothing changed. he's had 3 years. 3 years to change and set things right with you - yet he only continues to try and make it all go away = that's just not enough. he only intends for you to find out nothing - accept no info - and be obliviously happy? what an idiot he is! how disrespectful of him - and why should you settle for such disrespect? you shouldn't! no one can be happy when they have no idea what they are to forgive... he hasn't given you what you are supposed to accept because he won't admit to begin with. you are worse off now than 3 years ago because he hasn't admitted and repaired what HE damaged! what an a$$.

 

let him live with what he has created... you need to move forward and find what happy looks like for YOU - without him dragging you down with his lies and cover up. he can live with that - you don't need to any longer.

 

make him uncomfortable. do not give him any comforts - he's been willing to short change you - your future - your happiness = all at the expense of covering for himself... look how much good it does. it makes the BS feel like they will never know the truth - never move past the ugly truth and on to the healing. the healing can never begin until the awareness of the bad behavior has been reveal.

 

he's doing everything backwards or a man that's trying to repair a marriage. unfortunately - it all looks very familiar for a very selfish man who can't repair what HE'S damaged.

 

are you absolutely sure he isn't still active in his affair? it sure looks like it from this perspective... either way, he has created his own demise. a roadblock for a wife who WAS willing... the roadblock was never removed.

[2sunny]

how do you follow through? first - get angry! YOU deserve to be angry!

 

pack him a small bag. put it outside by the front door. have the locks changed and the garage door opener reprogramed.

 

when he's on the way home - tell him he's not welcome home anymore. you've had enough lies and manipulation. you want nothing more to do with him - nothing is left to say. his silence has told you everything. he's had his chance and he missed the boat. the boat should have left 3 years ago.

 

file for divorce and start living again. he's robbed you of 3 more years... he's offered nothing - except excuses and silence.

 

do NOT let him back in the house - much less the bed YOU need to sleep in. what a selfish man! why would you settle for so little? he offers you no sense of happiness.

 

i am mad now that i went back to your old posts from 3 years ago. he's never intended to give you kind and loving behavior.

 

it's way too late to think anything will change. get moving = get living again!

 

he's only getting what HE earned. ya give nothin' = ya get nothin' give him NONE of you.

 

he's essentially stolen three years of your happiness by with holding his truth from you. that should be enough for you to be damn mad! mad enough to say no more!

Edited July 6, 2010 by 2sunny

[eeyore1981]

I am angry. If he weren't the father of my children who are always around, I probably would have put his clothes in bags at the curb. I do need to make every effort to be mature about this, though, because of my kids. I'd like to try to set a good example.

 

To be honest, though, there is nothing I would like better right at this moment than to have a screaming, crying, raging hissy fit from hell.

 

I'm starting to have doubts, and I'm really scared. I read a little bit of a self-help book, though, and it said these were normal feelings, so I'm going to just keep telling myself I'm doing the right thing.

 

I had IC today and I go back on Fri. My IC doesn't seem to think I'm crazy in how I feel about how I've been treated, or in what my expectations were for a successful reconciliation. That has helped me a lot, but the bottom line is still I am ending a 25 year marriage, to a man I love, no matter how badly he has treated me. It hasn't all been bad, there were a lot of good times, too, and I think others in a ltr know what I'm saying. This hurts a lot, and it wasn't what I thought was going to happen when I married the guy.

 

I can't believe I'm really doing this. One day at a time.

[eeyore1981]

H said he found an apartment and he thinks he can be out this weekend.

 

He also talked to our son a little while ago, so now one of my kids knows.

 

We talked a little about what furniture he could take. I started sniping at him a little bit because I asked him if the apt. was furnished, he said no, so I asked him what furniture he wanted to take, and offered him the TV in the living room. He said he would just get another TV, then said a few items he wanted. I said fine, and then I said I would appreciate his discussing with me anything else he thought of later he wanted, and he just looked at me like I was being a bitch about it. Which I found offensive. He said he would, in a tone that said it should be obvious. Which I also found offensive.

 

I'm sitting here right now wishing the stupid weekend would get here and be over so he would be gone. I am so angry sitting here thinking about how little this marriage meant to him, right next to him, and doing my best to just keep my mouth shut.

 

I do not want to argue with him anymore, I do not want to argue with him anymore........

[eeyore1981]

I'm assuming your kids don't know? What do you think they would say to you if they understood the hell you have been and are going through to try to keep this M alive? And for their benefit (at least partially)?

 

I'm sorry, but you have misunderstood the situation. There were some times I wanted to leave this marriage and stayed for the kids when they were young. I stayed after this last bout because I, apparently foolishly and even stupidly, believed my husband thought enough of me to do some work to fix our marriage and make it a really good marriage. My mistake, and nothing to do with my kids.

[Woman In Blue]

Hey eeyore, your self-esteem has taken a beating, no doubt about it. Been there, done that, waiting for the video release.

 

Right now, you're disappointed, angry as hell, resentful, hurt, and every other emotion under the sun. Also been there.

 

But when the smoke starts to clear away, you're going to find that this is probably the best course of action at this point. You both seem to be at an impasse, and it honestly doesn't sound as though he's suddenly going to have an epiphany and finally "get it," realizing how lacking he's been in the husband department for many, many years.

 

It seems like you spent most of this relationship trying to be the person he wanted you to be, and no matter what you did, you still fell short in his eyes. Perhaps he can move to Connecticut and find himself a Stepford Wife, because his expectations are not realistic.

 

You did everything you could. You can't control how others act, think and feel. You can only control how you act, think and feel. You're doing the best you can - that's all you CAN do.

 

One day, when you're far enough out of this situation, you'll look back and see that this is, indeed, the best course of action for you.

 

Wishing you much strength and peace of mind.

[eeyore1981]

Hey eeyore, your self-esteem has taken a beating, no doubt about it. Been there, done that, waiting for the video release.

 

Right now, you're disappointed, angry as hell, resentful, hurt, and every other emotion under the sun. Also been there.

 

But when the smoke starts to clear away, you're going to find that this is probably the best course of action at this point. You both seem to be at an impasse, and it honestly doesn't sound as though he's suddenly going to have an epiphany and finally "get it," realizing how lacking he's been in the husband department for many, many years.

 

It seems like you spent most of this relationship trying to be the person he wanted you to be, and no matter what you did, you still fell short in his eyes. Perhaps he can move to Connecticut and find himself a Stepford Wife, because his expectations are not realistic.

 

You did everything you could. You can't control how others act, think and feel. You can only control how you act, think and feel. You're doing the best you can - that's all you CAN do.

 

One day, when you're far enough out of this situation, you'll look back and see that this is, indeed, the best course of action for you.

 

Wishing you much strength and peace of mind.

 

You're right, this is exactly where I am right now. I am really upset this morning. We had a fight before he left for work.

 

His thought processes, his 'logic' is CRAZY!!!! I've lived with it so long, I've accepted it for too long. I'm working on identifying it, and I'm getting a lot better, but it still isn't instant for me. It took me 10 minutes after he left this morning, which I think beats a day or two, which it used to be for me.

 

He said he knew when he told me Sat. he was trying to get in OW's pants, that I would be all about how he has lied to me for 3 years. I said, "Well, you did, but this is about how you just think I can deal with this indefinitely, not caring how much it is hurting me and stressing me out."

 

After he left, I was just shaking, and then I thought about what he said.

I don't need to defend myself. So what if it was ALL about his lying to me for almost 3 years. There may be people out there on this planet who have no issue with their spouse lying to them for 3 years, but I don't know any of them, and I d*mn sure am not one of them. He may think there is nothing wrong with it, but I have a huge problem with it. HUGE.

 

Yeah, I know he is not going to have an epiphany anytime soon, if ever. I know, at this point of deciding I want a divorce, and trying so hard to follow through on it, what he thinks, why he does this, whether he gets it or not, I know that is now a non-issue. That's why I'm doing this, to make it a non-issue, but at least today, this still matters to me, and I think it is going to for a while.

 

I forget exactly what was said leading to this, but he said, "You should stop it." referring to this problem going on for so long. That sums it up. He has no accountability for his actions, and once again feels I should just take all the damage his behavior has caused me and suck it up.

 

I've read in here and outside sources it takes about 2.5 to 5 years to recover from infidelity, and that's with the cheater doing everything they are supposed to to aid in the recovery. Apparently, my husband is SPECIAL and these guidelines don't apply to him.

[eeyore1981]

I see, sorry 'bout that.

 

Sadintexas, I didn't mean to admonish you, and I am sorry it came across that way.

 

I'm trying to be as accurate as possible, not only with what H is doing, but also myself.

 

Like getting into a fight with H this morning. I KNOW I shouldn't even be engaging with him over this anymore, I know it, but I don't have that kind of self-control yet. I am so effing angry and hurt.

[Spark1111]

Eeyore, maybe this is anger and hurt you did not allow yourself to express initially.

 

Maybe it came out in dribs and drabs as you put your Reconciliation hat on, then plastered a smile on your face and got back to the business of happy family.

 

I know there were times I did, only to have it bubble up from my toes and explode out of my mouth.

 

In retrospect, I think a longer separation would have been healthier FOR ME.

 

Because the biggest trigger to the affair is the WS who we see and interact with every day.

 

And it is very common for whatever rage we have suppressed to come spewing out when we see our fWS begin to grow ....complacent about the marriage; as if they are so far passed the pain and we are not there yet; and we want them to halt, turn around, grab our hand and help us get past the pain they caused us because we do/have love/loved them.

 

Maybe we see that they are incapable, or refuse to get better tools to help us, or remain very poor communicators who grow defensive or angry when we need words spoken from their heart, and reassurances that it will never happen again, or plain old fashioned tenderness.

 

And when they cannot supply it, we start to see them differently, more realistically, and either we commit to accepting who they are and always will be, or we walk away.

 

And it is normal, Eeyore. Reconciliation is a 2 to 5 year process with the success largely determined by how willing the WS is to answer any question you may have (88%) to not (55%).

 

Hang in there for yourself!

[eeyore1981]

Eeyore, maybe this is anger and hurt you did not allow yourself to express initially.

 

Maybe it came out in dribs and drabs as you put your Reconciliation hat on, then plastered a smile on your face and got back to the business of happy family.

 

I know there were times I did, only to have it bubble up from my toes and explode out of my mouth.

 

In retrospect, I think a longer separation would have been healthier FOR ME.

 

Because the biggest trigger to the affair is the WS who we see and interact with every day.

 

And it is very common for whatever rage we have suppressed to come spewing out when we see our fWS begin to grow ....complacent about the marriage; as if they are so far passed the pain and we are not there yet; and we want them to halt, turn around, grab our hand and help us get past the pain they caused us because we do/have love/loved them.

 

Maybe we see that they are incapable, or refuse to get better tools to help us, or remain very poor communicators who grow defensive or angry when we need words spoken from their heart, and reassurances that it will never happen again, or plain old fashioned tenderness.

 

And when they cannot supply it, we start to see them differently, more realistically, and either we commit to accepting who they are and always will be, or we walk away.

 

And it is normal, Eeyore. Reconciliation is a 2 to 5 year process with the success largely determined by how willing the WS is to answer any question you may have (88%) to not (55%).

 

Hang in there for yourself!

 

Spark, all I know is I am almost 3 years out, and whether my husband's affair was a mild EA vs. a full-blown major love affair EA + PA is still nothing more than guesswork on my part. WTF!

 

This is unacceptable to me. I have spent the past 3 years trying to find some way to make him understand how essential it is to our recovery for me to know to what extent I was cheated on. I find this to be insanity at this point.

 

This isn't about no matter what he tells me it will never be enough. This is about the details I know for sure vs. what he has claimed the affair to be do not add up to truth.

 

(And this isn't directed at you, Spark, I just have a rant coming on now.)

 

As of 2 years and 10 months, he is just now finally definitively admitting with no take backs that yes, he was pursuing an intimate relationship with another woman. Okay, maybe that is all it is. But now, under the circumstances, for me to believe that is all it is, I would like a reasonable explanation of why it has taken 2 years and 10 months to admit this. I mean, really? Destroy our marriage to not have to admit this? It's bad, sure, but certainly not earth-shattering. If it was to kill our marriage, I was already in the process of filing for divorce before this ever started, so why bother? If it was a lame attempt at saving our marriage, it should have been more than obvious 2 years and 4 months ago this was a bad plan, and it was wrecking our marriage, so why?

 

The affair, whatever it was, hurt me, and I admit it. But at that point, I wasn't blaming myself for it. It didn't take me a week to get halfway to understanding this affair was way more about him than it was me.

 

The aftermath, that is where the major, deep trauma has been done. I am a wreck. I question my thoughts, my sanity, everything. I've lost my self-confidence, I've lost my self-esteem. I no longer trust myself. My IC right now is about the only thing keeping me from thinking I am the crazy one.

 

I still love my husband, and I still want him. I can't stay with him like this, though. I just can't. Things will be good between us, and then something will come up, and every time he takes something that doesn't even have to be a problem and escalates it on and on until it is a huge mountain it is almost impossible to overcome. I can pinpoint the exact moment this all went wrong and led to here. And the last major crisis, and the one before that, etc. etc., and it is all so petty and so stupid. Every time it has cost me so much, and I have to understand I am worth more than this.

[Spark1111]

Spark, all I know is I am almost 3 years out, and whether my husband's affair was a mild EA vs. a full-blown major love affair EA + PA is still nothing more than guesswork on my part. WTF!

 

You should have had any question answered by now, even if it was the coward's explanation: I'm sorry I did not tell you the truth the first time because I was afraid to lose you....or something honest!

 

This is unacceptable to me. I have spent the past 3 years trying to find some way to make him understand how essential it is to our recovery for me to know to what extent I was cheated on. I find this to be insanity at this point.

 

I understand. How can I forgive you when I STILL do not know what I am being asked to forgive?

 

This isn't about no matter what he tells me it will never be enough. This is about the details I know for sure vs. what he has claimed the affair to be do not add up to truth.

 

And it feels like continued gaslighting, whether it is intentional or not. It hurts and it is destructive to reconciliation. A WS's ability to calmly discuss anything about the affair, whether they have answers or not, is almost more important than what they say.

 

(And this isn't directed at you, Spark, I just have a rant coming on now.)

 

As of 2 years and 10 months, he is just now finally definitively admitting with no take backs that yes, he was pursuing an intimate relationship with another woman. Okay, maybe that is all it is. But now, under the circumstances, for me to believe that is all it is, I would like a reasonable explanation of why it has taken 2 years and 10 months to admit this. I mean, really? Destroy our marriage to not have to admit this? It's bad, sure, but certainly not earth-shattering. If it was to kill our marriage, I was already in the process of filing for divorce before this ever started, so why bother? If it was a lame attempt at saving our marriage, it should have been more than obvious 2 years and 4 months ago this was a bad plan, and it was wrecking our marriage, so why?

 

Because he is still a coward? Can't face his own actions? Just wants to move on and forget about it? Doesn't understand how this coniues to undermine trust? Until no love remains?

 

The affair, whatever it was, hurt me, and I admit it. But at that point, I wasn't blaming myself for it. It didn't take me a week to get halfway to understanding this affair was way more about him than it was me.

 

The aftermath, that is where the major, deep trauma has been done. I am a wreck. I question my thoughts, my sanity, everything. I've lost my self-confidence, I've lost my self-esteem. I no longer trust myself. My IC right now is about the only thing keeping me from thinking I am the crazy one.

 

Many do not survive the botched aftermath. And there is such poor advice out there, even from counselors who will tell you too many details are dangerous. It's NOT the details, it's the effort on the part of the WS to be willing to be honest, or honestly try!

 

I still love my husband, and I still want him. I can't stay with him like this, though. I just can't. Things will be good between us, and then something will come up, and every time he takes something that doesn't even have to be a problem and escalates it on and on until it is a huge mountain it is almost impossible to overcome. I can pinpoint the exact moment this all went wrong and led to here. And the last major crisis, and the one before that, etc. etc., and it is all so petty and so stupid. Every time it has cost me so much, and I have to understand I am worth more than this.

 

He is not over it because he has not forced himself to deal with his own issues and you can't force him to. That's why he takes your molehills and blows them into mountains. Two reasons: They are still mountains for him, ones he does not want to examine, and secondly, getting angry at you creates a diversion that helps him to.......avoids conflict.

 

This is why you are going crazy, IMO, and it's a scenario I have lived.

 

Cheaters can have poor commuications kills, they avoid conflict, and they can have very low self-esteen which prevents them from growing and overcoming what caused the problems in the first place.

 

Eeyore, IMHO, you look at this man three years later and he still has the very characteristics that caused him to have an affair.

 

Eeyore, you don't feel safe and are realizing you may never.

[eeyore1981]

Today has been really bad. My emotions have been cycling all over the place. I've been queasy all day. I'm almost 3 days out, I hope I can get through the rest of today.

[2sunny]

I am angry. If he weren't the father of my children who are always around, I probably would have put his clothes in bags at the curb. I do need to make every effort to be mature about this, though, because of my kids. I'd like to try to set a good example.

To be honest, though, there is nothing I would like better right at this moment than to have a screaming, crying, raging hissy fit from hell.

 

I'm starting to have doubts, and I'm really scared. I read a little bit of a self-help book, though, and it said these were normal feelings, so I'm going to just keep telling myself I'm doing the right thing.

 

I had IC today and I go back on Fri. My IC doesn't seem to think I'm crazy in how I feel about how I've been treated, or in what my expectations were for a successful reconciliation. That has helped me a lot, but the bottom line is still I am ending a 25 year marriage, to a man I love, no matter how badly he has treated me. It hasn't all been bad, there were a lot of good times, too, and I think others in a ltr know what I'm saying. This hurts a lot, and it wasn't what I thought was going to happen when I married the guy.

 

I can't believe I'm really doing this. One day at a time.

 

the example you need to set for your kids is that Mom has a healthy boundary that won't take lies and deception! tell them that his unwillingness to be honest killed the possibility of reconciling.

 

kids learn to respect a woman (or man) who is respecting themselves. if you spend years longer putting up with crap and taking more of it - they learn that they need to do that in life as well.

 

lead by example. show them what a woman of honor and courage looks like. show them that a woman who respects herself isn't someone to mess with.

 

you are not wimpy gal - YOU are now the warrior! good work, be proud of yourself!

[turnstone]

How're you doing, Eeyore?

[eeyore1981]

How're you doing, Eeyore?

 

I don't know. I haven't been posting due to computer problems. I'm on a different computer right now.

 

H moved out Friday afternoon. He told me he got an apartment, but didn't volunteer where, and so I didn't ask. I'm not begging for info anymore.

 

I left before he came to get his things, and my son helped him move. My son called and told me they were finished. I went home, and my son wasn't there. I called to find out where he was, and he didn't answer. I figured he was with his father, and I started FLIPPING OUT! I wasn't expecting that, and I am shocked I was so upset. I'm working on figuring out where all that came from, and plan on talking about it tomorrow in IC, because I know my son has every right to spend time with his dad. After some thought, I think I was feeling betrayed by my son. That's not right at all. Has anyone else had feelings like this?

 

I was thinking I had worked through this, but last night my son and I got into a fight, and he left, and I don't know if I was still harboring those feelings which escalated the situation, or not. He did come back after a while, but I feel like my son is blaming me for the break up of the marriage.

 

My son and I were extremely close until he was about 14, and then our relationship was strained at best almost overnight. It is almost impossible to talk to him about anything, and we have had a lot of problems. He seems so angry at me almost all the time. I think it has a lot to do with all the marital problems going on, but I just really don't know anymore.

[sally4sara]

I don't know. I haven't been posting due to computer problems. I'm on a different computer right now.

 

H moved out Friday afternoon. He told me he got an apartment, but didn't volunteer where, and so I didn't ask. I'm not begging for info anymore.

 

I left before he came to get his things, and my son helped him move. My son called and told me they were finished. I went home, and my son wasn't there. I called to find out where he was, and he didn't answer. I figured he was with his father, and I started FLIPPING OUT! I wasn't expecting that, and I am shocked I was so upset. I'm working on figuring out where all that came from, and plan on talking about it tomorrow in IC, because I know my son has every right to spend time with his dad. After some thought, I think I was feeling betrayed by my son. That's not right at all. Has anyone else had feelings like this?

 

I was thinking I had worked through this, but last night my son and I got into a fight, and he left, and I don't know if I was still harboring those feelings which escalated the situation, or not. He did come back after a while, but I feel like my son is blaming me for the break up of the marriage.

 

My son and I were extremely close until he was about 14, and then our relationship was strained at best almost overnight. It is almost impossible to talk to him about anything, and we have had a lot of problems. He seems so angry at me almost all the time. I think it has a lot to do with all the marital problems going on, but I just really don't know anymore.

 

Keep your head up.

Kids want to be able to admire their parents. He is probably just feeling the pinch in admiring his father. Its all icky to come out and express his feelings to the man he feels he has to live up to. Your husband moving out makes it impossible to shove it down and pretend his father is perfect. So rather than acknowledge his father's flaws - he only sees that you've hit your wall and his dad has left because of it. He will come to it one day and be able to accept that you never wished for this to happen and you had no other choice if you wanted to preserve your sanity. He will be glad once he sees you come around the corner of all this and be a happier you. Just make sure he knows you will always be available to him.

 

And you will be one day - a happier you.