just_some_guy Posted July 3, 2010 Posted July 3, 2010 Had a tough talk with my W. We've been separated for several months now. It has been a very hard time for her, struggling with depression and she's been on disability leave from work. Attempts at marriage counseling have gone very poorly both before and after I moved out. In the mean time, I've been working on myself, living alone and have become healthier, peaceful and more centered. Most of all, I am more in touch with my emotions and not letting myself get tied up in knots, preventing myself expressing them, even if it means displeasing or disappointing others. She said she was strong enough to talk and ready to talk about where we are going. It took strength on my part, to let my inner voice and feelings out, but I said I do not want to continue with marriage therapy anymore, that I'm ready to move on. Things were not pleasant afterward, but at least this time, I didn't have to face the all the irrational, vicious lashing out. It was emotional, but real. Honestly, I love her and want her to be happy. I hope she finds herself, learns to love and accept herself and hope she finds a new man to be happy with.
habs53 Posted July 3, 2010 Posted July 3, 2010 Had a tough talk with my W. We've been separated for several months now. It has been a very hard time for her, struggling with depression and she's been on disability leave from work. Attempts at marriage counseling have gone very poorly both before and after I moved out. In the mean time, I've been working on myself, living alone and have become healthier, peaceful and more centered. Most of all, I am more in touch with my emotions and not letting myself get tied up in knots, preventing myself expressing them, even if it means displeasing or disappointing others. She said she was strong enough to talk and ready to talk about where we are going. It took strength on my part, to let my inner voice and feelings out, but I said I do not want to continue with marriage therapy anymore, that I'm ready to move on. Things were not pleasant afterward, but at least this time, I didn't have to face the all the irrational, vicious lashing out. It was emotional, but real. Honestly, I love her and want her to be happy. I hope she finds herself, learns to love and accept herself and hope she finds a new man to be happy with. Going through the same thing here buddy. Its not a normal breakup as people would see it. Really hard to fugure out what to do with a person like this. Good luck to you.
hopesndreams Posted July 3, 2010 Posted July 3, 2010 Honestly, I love her and want her to be happy. I hope she finds herself, learns to love and accept herself and hope she finds a new man to be happy with. She'll find herself. The best thing you can do for her now is NC. It will help her move on, with or without a "new" man and with far less suffering.
habs53 Posted July 3, 2010 Posted July 3, 2010 Honestly, I love her and want her to be happy. I hope she finds herself, learns to love and accept herself and hope she finds a new man to be happy with. She'll find herself. The best thing you can do for her now is NC. It will help her move on, with or without a "new" man and with far less suffering. That is good advice.
cavedweller Posted July 4, 2010 Posted July 4, 2010 guy, If you two can not make the marriage work, then, you both have to move on.
LisaUk Posted July 4, 2010 Posted July 4, 2010 Had a tough talk with my W. We've been separated for several months now. It has been a very hard time for her, struggling with depression and she's been on disability leave from work. Attempts at marriage counseling have gone very poorly both before and after I moved out. In the mean time, I've been working on myself, living alone and have become healthier, peaceful and more centered. Most of all, I am more in touch with my emotions and not letting myself get tied up in knots, preventing myself expressing them, even if it means displeasing or disappointing others. She said she was strong enough to talk and ready to talk about where we are going. It took strength on my part, to let my inner voice and feelings out, but I said I do not want to continue with marriage therapy anymore, that I'm ready to move on. Things were not pleasant afterward, but at least this time, I didn't have to face the all the irrational, vicious lashing out. It was emotional, but real. Honestly, I love her and want her to be happy. I hope she finds herself, learns to love and accept herself and hope she finds a new man to be happy with. Correct me if I am wrong though Justsomeguy, but my understanding from your early posts here on LS was that the MC was a farce anyway, a make believe, you had already decided to end the marriage before you moved out and sought MC as a means of letting her down? I rmemeber clearly posting to you that she was now making the effort to lose the weight and you saying you had already emotionally detached and were not interested in trying to work things out, so why the post which suggests that this is a recent decision? Or do I have it all wrong?
spriggig Posted July 4, 2010 Posted July 4, 2010 ...Or do I have it all wrong? He's simply engaging in the time-honored practice of re-writing history. When I saw this, I thought it was a "look what a big man I am" post and figured he was probably lying to himself to avoid facing the guilt. But that's what I always think, so yeah.
trippi1432 Posted July 5, 2010 Posted July 5, 2010 JSG, I know that I see your posts here and there on different threads and you have posted some of your story on some of my threads....but I don't see where you really laid out the entire story. I recall you stating that you were going to do that one day on your own thread. Like I said...bits and pieces all over the place, so putting the puzzle together, I conclude the following: ....basically you decided your marriage was over back in January due to your wife's eating disorder. You laid the bomb on her, she is reacting and you feel like you need to validate yourself. I think Sprigg is correct, you have been re-writing history for 7 months or longer now. In your mind, you have already moved on....have already looked for greener grass based on some of your posts on other forums....so why are you dragging out this heartbreak for her and making it worse? No DA*N wonder she is depressed and on a leave of absence. Are you worried that she is suicidal.....the longer you drag out this mindf*ck, she probably will be.....LBS do enough of a mindf*ck on their own, they don't need an uncaring individual to help them in their task, especially one that doesn't respect their wedding vows. It's not just that you walked out on her due to her weight, it's the trauma that she is having to deal with of feeling betrayed as well. In Vikki Stark's book, Runaway Husbands, pg 51 points out that trauma caused to a left behind spouse is "damage to the psyche caused when a person is unable to integrate a sudden change in his or her reality." "....trauma often occurs as a result of betrayal by someone on whom the person has depended." Studies have actually been conducted using brain scans to see how extreme stress affects the brain patterns of someone having undergone a severe trauma (your one ex having a miscarriage.....this one obviously "letting herself go" perhaps...I hope you hadn't been lying to her over the years telling her you would love her no matter what she looked like) Obviously, the weight is her problem to deal with, but to not love someone because of it....there's more to it than that. Your wife's depression is most likely caused by the trauma that she is going through trying to understand the reality of her situation....you not loving her. "Recent studies indicate that extreme stress can cause measurable physical changes in the hippocampus and the medial prefrontal cortex, two areas of the brain involved in memory and emotional response". (Yale University School of Medicine). If you don't love her and have already moved on as a WAS, quit validating it.....You remind me of my ex when you say "I'm moving on so she can be happy"....:mad: Truth is, you moved on a long time ago, using this against her as a means to satisfy your new Jungian thought process....BS. If nothing else...point her here so she can find some real support and people who care....we can point her to the 180 and NC to move you on out of her life and work on bettering herself for HER. I realize that you have many threads going to seek the validation you are looking for (some I didn't post on specifically due to the issues being so similar), but I think the best advice you got was back in April posted by tnttim: The facts: You have an ex wife and a separated wife both suffering from an addiction that was only small but grew over time, after you got married. You tried to force change, didn't succeed, and bailed on both. Current wife is doing better but we all know a backslide is inevitable. You took your overly obsessive overweight wife on a diner date. You played father with your wives and then got tired of being a father. IMO: I agree with letting her fix her own problems, and you being there only complicates the process. I agree you have done all that you can do with her until you reached your wits end. I don't agree with you giving up on your best friend because of a disease. It's called selfishness. If they had cancer would you leave them? I think you and I got into this discussion on my medical conditions thread..... They didn't need you to solve their problems, they needed your support in fighting their demons. They needed your compassion when things got tough, and they backslide. They needed you not to judge them. They needed a strong example. You still sit as judge and jury on your wife's ED....she needs to get her own Internal counselor without you so she can rebuild the self esteem that has been stripped from her. Two addicted spouses and all I see is you pointing fingers at them. Does a third have to happen before you even consider you might be playing a role in their demise. I see the trend, why not you, it's your life. I know this sounds like a rant....but for someone to take absolutely no blame in the demise of their marriage....well, there's more to this story that I don't think you are telling.
Author just_some_guy Posted July 5, 2010 Author Posted July 5, 2010 Correct me if I am wrong though Justsomeguy, but my understanding from your early posts here on LS was that the MC was a farce anyway, a make believe, you had already decided to end the marriage before you moved out and sought MC as a means of letting her down? I rmemeber clearly posting to you that she was now making the effort to lose the weight and you saying you had already emotionally detached and were not interested in trying to work things out, so why the post which suggests that this is a recent decision? Or do I have it all wrong? You have it all wrong.
Author just_some_guy Posted July 5, 2010 Author Posted July 5, 2010 JSG, I know that I see your posts here and there on different threads and you have posted some of your story on some of my threads....but I don't see where you really laid out the entire story. I recall you stating that you were going to do that one day on your own thread. Like I said...bits and pieces all over the place, so putting the puzzle together, I conclude the following: ....basically you decided your marriage was over back in January due to your wife's eating disorder. You laid the bomb on her, she is reacting and you feel like you need to validate yourself. I think Sprigg is correct, you have been re-writing history for 7 months or longer now. In your mind, you have already moved on....have already looked for greener grass based on some of your posts on other forums....so why are you dragging out this heartbreak for her and making it worse? No DA*N wonder she is depressed and on a leave of absence. Are you worried that she is suicidal.....the longer you drag out this mindf*ck, she probably will be.....LBS do enough of a mindf*ck on their own, they don't need an uncaring individual to help them in their task, especially one that doesn't respect their wedding vows. It's not just that you walked out on her due to her weight, it's the trauma that she is having to deal with of feeling betrayed as well. In Vikki Stark's book, Runaway Husbands, pg 51 points out that trauma caused to a left behind spouse is "damage to the psyche caused when a person is unable to integrate a sudden change in his or her reality." "....trauma often occurs as a result of betrayal by someone on whom the person has depended." Studies have actually been conducted using brain scans to see how extreme stress affects the brain patterns of someone having undergone a severe trauma (your one ex having a miscarriage.....this one obviously "letting herself go" perhaps...I hope you hadn't been lying to her over the years telling her you would love her no matter what she looked like) Obviously, the weight is her problem to deal with, but to not love someone because of it....there's more to it than that. Your wife's depression is most likely caused by the trauma that she is going through trying to understand the reality of her situation....you not loving her. "Recent studies indicate that extreme stress can cause measurable physical changes in the hippocampus and the medial prefrontal cortex, two areas of the brain involved in memory and emotional response". (Yale University School of Medicine). If you don't love her and have already moved on as a WAS, quit validating it.....You remind me of my ex when you say "I'm moving on so she can be happy"....:mad: Truth is, you moved on a long time ago, using this against her as a means to satisfy your new Jungian thought process....BS. If nothing else...point her here so she can find some real support and people who care....we can point her to the 180 and NC to move you on out of her life and work on bettering herself for HER. I realize that you have many threads going to seek the validation you are looking for (some I didn't post on specifically due to the issues being so similar), but I think the best advice you got was back in April posted by tnttim: I know this sounds like a rant....but for someone to take absolutely no blame in the demise of their marriage....well, there's more to this story that I don't think you are telling. Not only is it a rant, it is a flat out irrational rant too. I've never said that I have no part in the demise of the marriage. My very first post was in January, shortly after I told her I was going to seek IC for myself because I had serious problems with the relationship. She came absolutely unglued, "How dare I make her look like a failure" "How DARE I talk to anyone else about our problems" screaming and ranting and on and on. Do you really think that was the first time I brought it up with her? When I said on vacation last summer, "I was afraid you were going to die today. I can't take this anymore, things have to change when we get back." For the second time on the same trip? When I said after we got back and nothing changed for a month, "I can't stay and watch you kill yourself. I just can't do this." There's lots more - I only got here on this board AFTER trying everything I could think of. She blew me off, refused to hear any of it, pushed it out of her mind in denial. It was as if never said. This was not even the first time I said that I did not want to continue the marriage, that I wanted to end it, that I was ready to move on. The last time I said it was at the end of our last session of MC. She REFUSED to accept it then. She is REFUSING to accept it now. But you and her both say I dropped a "bomb" on her. F*ck me, if it couldn't be any plainer than that. Is there something vague about the italicized, verbatim words I spoke to her over the last year and more? Is there something about not having sex in a marriage that isn't a CLEAR sign of trouble? The only reason it wasn't clear to her is that she was and still is deluding herself. As far as Vikki Stark goes, I don't have her book, but it looks like a typical pablum of self-pitying pop-psych garbage. But from her website (hawking her book of course): 1. Prior to the separation, the husband had seemed to be an attentive, engaged spouse, looked upon by his wife as honest and trustworthy. Ok, that could be me. Could be a whole lot of people. 2. The husband had never indicated that he was unhappy in the marriage or thinking of leaving, and the wife believed herself to be in a secure relationship. This takes two. What if wife was in denial and refused to see, hear or accept that there were problems? (Something which she now at least partially admits) I was indicating. Perhaps not as clearly as I should have, but that's something I have problems with. 3. By the time he reveals his feelings to his wife, the end of the marriage is already a fait accompli and the husband moves out quickly. Nope. Months of warnings, all ignored. 4. The husband typically blurts out the news that the marriage is over "out-of-the-blue" in the middle of a mundane domestic conversation. Nope. 5. Reasons given for his decision are nonsensical, exaggerated, trivial or fraudulent. Nope. 6. The husband’s behavior changes radically, feeling to his wife that he has become a cruel and vindictive stranger. Honestly, this sounds like book-selling nonsense to me. But no, I'm not being cruel or vindictive. 7. The husband exhibits no remorse; rather, anger is directed toward his wife and he may describe himself as the victim. Nope. I'm not angry. I feel terrible about the whole thing. 8. In most cases, the husband is having an affair and moves in directly with his girlfriend. Nope. Living and sleeping alone. See my thread 9. The husband makes no attempt to help his wife, either financially or emotionally, as if all positive regard for her has been extinguished. Nope. Bills are paid, money is available. She spending it quite freely. Hell, she's replaced more furniture than I even have. She burned through at $16,000 that I've provided her. She still has a maid - even though she hasn't worked since April. I don't have a maid. Who came to help when she was near-suicidal? Who drove her to the doctors? Who took the brunt of a bunch of brutal emotional lashing out when she was hurting? Who pays the bills, who fixes stuff that breaks? 10. Systematically devaluing the marriage, the husband redefines what had previously been an agreed-upon view of the couple's joint history. I'm not sure what this means, but I don't think so. I have pictures of our history, with dates from the camera itself. I think my view of joint history is quite honest. It looks like a bunch of self-pitying prattle to me, but I don't even fit her definition of a WAS. I realize I'm in the minority on this board, as the leaver rather than the leav-ee. I think you and LisaUK are projecting your hurt and anger at your spouses at me.
trippi1432 Posted July 5, 2010 Posted July 5, 2010 (edited) JSG - First off, each of those indicators do not have to be "by the book" when a mental trauma is experienced by the left-behind spouse. Honestly, we don't have your wife's side of the story here so what goes on is only by what you feel and so far, none of it has to do with you. While you seem to be the "great man" to be doing all you can for her, you are a constant physical reminder to her of the "failure" she now thinks that she is (basing that on your post where you went to IC and she didn't like the things you came back with). Obviously, even though she considered a gastric bypass to try and make the physical changes you required of her, tried to OD because her depression has become so bad, her begging you to stay one minute and then lashing out at you the next....I'm sure that is cruel and unusual punishment for someone like you who is trying to do "right" by his wife. You have made your case, made your decision...does she not have any family nearby so you can get out of the picture? Seems to me that you have validated every reason to have left her. She needs internal counseling so she can get stronger to get her self-esteem back (of which I'm sure none of that had to do with you....she's was probably miserable for several years and the ED was a comfort to her, yes that is her issue to overcome for herself...not for you)....this reminds me of the video segments we watched during out-patient treatments for depression and PTSD. Classic! Obviously, you looked up the site for Vikki Stark to get those 10 Hallmarks of WAS...if you want to really help your wife...you should buy her a copy of the book so she can work on healing. Just seems to me that you have been dragging out her hurt and hope that the marriage could be fixed by doing MC with her all this time, giving her false hope. You have stated many times on here that you do not love her anymore, you moved out seven months ago....you are validating your reasons for being the leaver. So it really matters not as to anything an LBS on here can tell you for what your wife is going through. An irrational rant...to a leaver, it most likely is irrational. There are a lot of leavers on this board actually and I'm sure they will all sympathize with you. Edited July 5, 2010 by trippi1432
Author just_some_guy Posted July 5, 2010 Author Posted July 5, 2010 Trippi, I think you have someone else's story mixed up with me. 1. She never, nor did I ever say she OD'd or attempted suicide. (But I believe you said that you did) 2. I never "required" her to do a gastric bypass or anything else. Honestly, it sounds like you are reacting to your own history, not to me or my story. She's in her own therapy and her own program. I will not and should not get involved with that. She convened our last meeting with the intent of starting MC again. Honestly, if it were just a weight problem, I could have lived with that. But it is a full blown addiction-like disease, right down to life-threatening levels. In spite of the weight loss, the disease is still in full force. The house is still PACKED with food. You can't see the light in the freezer or refrigerator because there is so much food in it. (a giant side-by-side) The pantry is overflowing. There are bags of food being stored all over the house. Clearly, as she moves away from food, she's moving to shopping as sooth to the addiction. She's filled all the closets with clothes, all the drawers, bought new furniture and a lot of other stuff. My part in all of this was my inability to express my feelings, letting myself get shut down and manipulated in the relationship and not seeing the seeds of her addiction/eating-disorder before we got involved. She was my second addict. That says something about me. That's what I'm working on. I'm not willing to be part of that or her recovery process, which in my estimation has only barely begun. Yes, you only have my side of the story. It probably sounds one-sided. Perhaps it really is one-sided, perhaps it isn't.
LisaUk Posted July 5, 2010 Posted July 5, 2010 Not only is it a rant, it is a flat out irrational rant too. I've never said that I have no part in the demise of the marriage. My very first post was in January, shortly after I told her I was going to seek IC for myself because I had serious problems with the relationship. She came absolutely unglued, "How dare I make her look like a failure" "How DARE I talk to anyone else about our problems" screaming and ranting and on and on. Do you really think that was the first time I brought it up with her? When I said on vacation last summer, "I was afraid you were going to die today. I can't take this anymore, things have to change when we get back." For the second time on the same trip? When I said after we got back and nothing changed for a month, "I can't stay and watch you kill yourself. I just can't do this." There's lots more - I only got here on this board AFTER trying everything I could think of. She blew me off, refused to hear any of it, pushed it out of her mind in denial. It was as if never said. This was not even the first time I said that I did not want to continue the marriage, that I wanted to end it, that I was ready to move on. The last time I said it was at the end of our last session of MC. She REFUSED to accept it then. She is REFUSING to accept it now. But you and her both say I dropped a "bomb" on her. F*ck me, if it couldn't be any plainer than that. Is there something vague about the italicized, verbatim words I spoke to her over the last year and more? Is there something about not having sex in a marriage that isn't a CLEAR sign of trouble? The only reason it wasn't clear to her is that she was and still is deluding herself. As far as Vikki Stark goes, I don't have her book, but it looks like a typical pablum of self-pitying pop-psych garbage. But from her website (hawking her book of course): Ok, that could be me. Could be a whole lot of people. This takes two. What if wife was in denial and refused to see, hear or accept that there were problems? (Something which she now at least partially admits) I was indicating. Perhaps not as clearly as I should have, but that's something I have problems with. Nope. Months of warnings, all ignored. Nope. Nope. Honestly, this sounds like book-selling nonsense to me. But no, I'm not being cruel or vindictive. Nope. I'm not angry. I feel terrible about the whole thing. 8. In most cases, the husband is having an affair and moves in directly with his girlfriend. Nope. Living and sleeping alone. See my thread Nope. Bills are paid, money is available. She spending it quite freely. Hell, she's replaced more furniture than I even have. She burned through at $16,000 that I've provided her. She still has a maid - even though she hasn't worked since April. I don't have a maid. Who came to help when she was near-suicidal? Who drove her to the doctors? Who took the brunt of a bunch of brutal emotional lashing out when she was hurting? Who pays the bills, who fixes stuff that breaks? I'm not sure what this means, but I don't think so. I have pictures of our history, with dates from the camera itself. I think my view of joint history is quite honest. It looks like a bunch of self-pitying prattle to me, but I don't even fit her definition of a WAS. I realize I'm in the minority on this board, as the leaver rather than the leav-ee. I think you and LisaUK are projecting your hurt and anger at your spouses at me. JSG, OK first off where you say above that Vicki Starks book is prattle, you don't know what you are talking about, in fact THIS is exactly the way that I was left. Not one warning from my ex, BY HIS OWN D*MM ADMISSION "SORRY I DIDN'T LET YOU KNOW I WAS UNHAPPY AND PRETENDED EVERYTHING WAS FINE BUT THIS IS THE RIGHT THING", He told me he was leaving whilst I was in bed one Saturday morning, a couple of weeks after we had booked our wedding, after he dragged me round wedding venues and churches telling me how happy he was I was going to be his wife, how much he loved me etc etc, need I go on to illustarte the point that Vicki Starks theory is far from prattle! Secondly, I am not projecting my hurt on you, that was offensive, I never suggested you were a WAS, just pointing out that you are re-writing what happened in your own mind to justify your actions. Truth time! I have avoided saying things to you b/c I don't think you have the strength to hear them or to understand the way they are intended, there is help here, REAL help for people who are here to learn and to grow. I do not think that is why you are here.
LisaUk Posted July 5, 2010 Posted July 5, 2010 Trippi, I think you have someone else's story mixed up with me. 1. She never, nor did I ever say she OD'd or attempted suicide. (But I believe you said that you did. ENOUGH JSG ENOUGH! I mean this is the best possible way, although I doubt you will take it that way, perhaps something you would do well to work on therapy is empathy, you seem to lack the capacity for it. Please do not cause those here in pain, any more of it.
Gunny376 Posted July 5, 2010 Posted July 5, 2010 Had a tough talk with my W. We've been separated for several months now. It has been a very hard time for her, struggling with depression and she's been on disability leave from work. Attempts at marriage counseling have gone very poorly both before and after I moved out. In the mean time, I've been working on myself, living alone and have become healthier, peaceful and more centered. Most of all, I am more in touch with my emotions and not letting myself get tied up in knots, preventing myself expressing them, even if it means displeasing or disappointing others. She said she was strong enough to talk and ready to talk about where we are going. It took strength on my part, to let my inner voice and feelings out, but I said I do not want to continue with marriage therapy anymore, that I'm ready to move on. Things were not pleasant afterward, but at least this time, I didn't have to face the all the irrational, vicious lashing out. It was emotional, but real. Honestly, I love her and want her to be happy. I hope she finds herself, learns to love and accept herself and hope she finds a new man to be happy with. Carry On MARINE!
Author just_some_guy Posted July 5, 2010 Author Posted July 5, 2010 (edited) You three attacked me, claimed I'm "rewriting history" and that going into MC was some kind of "farce" on my part. Then you have the nerve to claim I'm causing you pain? How do you think that sounds to me? Where in the hell did I re-write history? I've written quite honestly as things have unfolded over the last several months. If it seems disjointed and hard to follow, that's because it was and is. I went into MC without a lot of hope for reconciliation, but was willing to honestly try to work on it. I saw it as the best chance to work on it and the best chance to end the marriage in the healthiest way if we could not work it out. I was disappointed that it really went no where at all. She argued with and got nasty with the counselor, threw tantrums, got defensive about everything and made demands outside the sessions to stop me talking about things. It was a miserable failure in all respects, all seven sessions. Our last session terminated with me saying I felt it was time to end it. I felt more so at the end than I did at the beginning. Nor did it accomplish the secondary goal for my going, which was if it was to end, to do so in the best possible manner. Trippi has brought events in from her situation and transposed them into my story. Things that I never wrote about or happened. I'm sorry if pointing out her (self-mentioned) suicide attempt caused her pain, but indeed I never mentioned any such thing in my situation. There was no such attempt, not even threats. There was ideation when I asked her about it. Lisa, I'm sorry your S.O. ended things so abruptly without any warning. That must be terribly hard. I can't even imagine. My W says the same thing, that it was out of the clear blue sky. But it was NOT so. I voiced unhappiness many times. I can even tell you the exact date of some them from my personal journal and from emails with close friends that I discussed some of this with. I KNOW these conversations happened, I remember saying the words. Yet to hear her tell it, they never happened at all. Edited July 5, 2010 by just_some_guy
LisaUk Posted July 5, 2010 Posted July 5, 2010 You three attacked me, claimed I'm "rewriting history" and that going into MC was some kind of "farce" on my part. Then you have the nerve to claim I'm causing you pain? How do you think that sounds to me? Where in the hell did I re-write history? I've written quite honestly as things have unfolded over the last several months. If it seems disjointed and hard to follow, that's because it was and is. I went into MC without a lot of hope for reconciliation, but was willing to honestly try to work on it. I saw it as the best chance to work on it and the best chance to end the marriage in the healthiest way if we could not work it out. I was disappointed that it really went no where at all. She argued with and got nasty with the counselor, threw tantrums, got defensive about everything and made demands outside the sessions to stop me talking about things. It was a miserable failure in all respects, all seven sessions. Our last session terminated with me saying I felt it was time to end it. I felt more so at the end than I did at the beginning. Nor did it accomplish the secondary goal for my going, which was if it was to end, to do so in the best possible manner. Trippi has brought events in from her situation and transposed them into my story. Things that I never wrote about or happened. I'm sorry if pointing out her (self-mentioned) suicide attempt caused her pain, but indeed I never mentioned any such thing in my situation. There was no such attempt, not even threats. There was ideation when I asked her about it. Lisa, I'm sorry your S.O. ended things so abruptly without any warning. That must be terribly hard. I can't even imagine. My W says the same thing, that it was out of the clear blue sky. But it was NOT so. I voiced unhappiness many times. I can even tell you the exact date of some them from my personal journal and from emails with close friends that I discussed some of this with. I KNOW these conversations happened, I remember saying the words. Yet to hear her tell it, they never happened at all. JSG, no one was attacaking you. I seemed to remember that you had told me on one o fyour own threads that you were going to MC but had no intention of working things out with your wife, you were done. I will have to find the time to find the post another time as I have to be up for work in the morning, it is 6 hours ahead here. If I misunderstood then I apologise. May I suggest, and it is only a suggestion, that perhaps your wife did not hear these conversations as you expressing unhappiness b/c she believed that when you took your wedding vows you meant them, ie you were commited to her for better for worse, so when you said "I can't do this anymore" she kne wyou were upset but the thought you would leave her never entered her mind? Then you go to MC and she starts to do as you ask and starts to try and get help, but you tell her it isn't enough, shes buying stiff or whatever, you get what I mean. From the outside looking in it really does appear that you do not want to see this from her point of view? Only you know what happened in your marriage, only you can decide what you need to do in the future.
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