OFGnomore Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 (edited) ***Subject Should be BSs How do you define transparency*** Can being too transparent be a bad thing for reconciliation? Since Dday I've been an open book with H. Is there a point when it does more harm than good to keep talking about the A? For example, H and I see members of the other party in the community. Although no contact is exchanged, how much is " I saw so and so driving or at the grocery" productive toward moving forward? As a FWS, I feel like any sighting s/b told because it for me, it takes me back to feeling like I'm keeping interactions from H like back in the A even though there is no contact. H says I can share whatever I want with him but at times I feel conflicted, like I'm "keeping it from him" if I don't or "stirring up pain" if I do. Thoughts? Edited July 2, 2010 by OFGnomore
Owl Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 Sounds like something you probably should discuss directly with your H. Ask HIM what level of 'reporting' he'd prefer, and whether or not he feels that what you're doing currently is too much. I WOULD expect the need for in depth 'reporting' to go down in time...but often that timeframe is a lot longer than a fWS would expect. It takes a LOT longer than most WS's realize for a BS to start to resume 'normal' mental functions. Often BS's almost obsess over the affair, what led to it, what they felt as a result of it, etc... So recovery for them takes a lot longer than a WS might expect...not understanding that obsession that often comes as part of the whole deal. That's my take anyway...have a sit down witn your H...ask him how he's feeling now, ask him if the level of info he's getting is enough, too little, or too much, and discuss if it makes sense to reduce it...IF HE'S COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
Samantha0905 Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 I think there does come a point where talking about the affair does more harm than good. If two people decide to work on the marriage and move beyond the affair, constantly dredging up the affair only shows the BS is not actually ready to forgive and move forward. I also would not feel a need to report every "sighting." That would be ridiculous. And yes, I do think dredging up the pain for no good reason. I would also reserve a part of myself for myself. Privacy is a wonderful thing and I don't think a WS should be required to give up themselves to be "truly remorseful." It's not a real relationship anyway if you're not allowed to be yourself. The BS needs to decide whether they are ready to forgive you, trust you again and move forward. I would not be submitting a detailed report of my activities each day. I know people don't like time frames attached to such things as they say each person heals at a different rate -- and that might be true -- but I don't think I could last much beyond a year of being grilled or treated like I must be in a constant state of repentance. Holding on to negative energy over a long period of time cannot be healthy. In any event, luckily my husband is not hanging everything over my head like I'm Jack the Ripper's partner in crime or something. I may be able to tell him EVERYTHING in the world, but I simply don't want to. I don't have to share every thought in my head. And I certainly don't have to put my XAP on total "ignore" in my head. My thoughts are mine and thank goodness for that.
Spark1111 Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 ***Subject Should be BSs How do you define transparency*** Can being too transparent be a bad thing for reconciliation? Since Dday I've been an open book with H. Is there a point when it does more harm than good to keep talking about the A? For example, H and I see members of the other party in the community. Although no contact is exchanged, how much is " I saw so and so driving or at the grocery" productive toward moving forward? As a FWS, I feel like any sighting s/b told because it for me, it takes me back to feeling like I'm keeping interactions from H like back in the A even though there is no contact. H says I can share whatever I want with him but at times I feel conflicted, like I'm "keeping it from him" if I don't or "stirring up pain" if I do. Thoughts? My fWS works in the same organization has fOW. While the offices are NOW 50 miles apart, there exists some opportunity to cross paths. She blatantly broke NC 2 years after the affair ended. I personally would want to know, not that it dredged anything up for me anymore, but I would appreciate his total honesty at any time he saw, bumped into her, or had to have work-related contact (rare). But OWL is right. You have sightings, not actual contact, so discuss with your husband what his level of comfort is in this. If I, as the BS, ever saw her, I cannot think of a reason why I wouldn't share that with him. I mean, why would we ignore that?
Spark1111 Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 I think there does come a point where talking about the affair does more harm than good. If two people decide to work on the marriage and move beyond the affair, constantly dredging up the affair only shows the BS is not actually ready to forgive and move forward. I think it shows the BS may have already forgiven, but not yet healed from the affair. If more discussion is necessary for the BS to heal, they will indicate that to the WS, who should be more than ready to oblige. Discussion has nothing to do with forgiveness, IMO, just understanding. I also would not feel a need to report every "sighting." That would be ridiculous. And yes, I do think dredging up the pain for no good reason. I think you should ask your spouse what they would like from you in the event of a sighting. I would also reserve a part of myself for myself. Privacy is a wonderful thing and I don't think a WS should be required to give up themselves to be "truly remorseful." It's not a real relationship anyway if you're not allowed to be yourself. The BS needs to decide whether they are ready to forgive you, trust you again and move forward. I would not be submitting a detailed report of my activities each day. All true, BUT what do you see as the role of the WS to repair the marriage and restore trust? Who decides how much transparency is needed? You or you spouse? I know people don't like time frames attached to such things as they say each person heals at a different rate -- and that might be true -- but I don't think I could last much beyond a year of being grilled or treated like I must be in a constant state of repentance. Holding on to negative energy over a long period of time cannot be healthy. Who says it is grilling or negative? My fWS could not wait to prove how honest he was after it ended. He knew it was a necessary component of reconciliation. He wanted me to trust him again and did what ever he could to prove it to me. He did not feel punished, but was grateful to have the opportunity to do so. In any event, luckily my husband is not hanging everything over my head like I'm Jack the Ripper's partner in crime or something. I may be able to tell him EVERYTHING in the world, but I simply don't want to. I don't have to share every thought in my head. And I certainly don't have to put my XAP on total "ignore" in my head. My thoughts are mine and thank goodness for that. I am amazed how many WSs feel they are being punished when asked about their affair. I do not expect anyone to put the AP on ignore initially. Just total indifference....eventually, especially if they truly want to re-commit to the marriage.
Spark1111 Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 Ignore what? Seeing, stumbling into, talking with the OW/OM. Why would we ignore or avoid the conversation?
Dexter Morgan Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 ***Subject Should be BSs How do you define transparency*** get your ass home stay your ass home give access to all forms of communication submit to a lie detector test every 2 weeks:lmao:
NoIDidn't Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 My fWS works in the same organization has fOW. While the offices are NOW 50 miles apart, there exists some opportunity to cross paths. She blatantly broke NC 2 years after the affair ended. I personally would want to know, not that it dredged anything up for me anymore, but I would appreciate his total honesty at any time he saw, bumped into her, or had to have work-related contact (rare). But OWL is right. You have sightings, not actual contact, so discuss with your husband what his level of comfort is in this. If I, as the BS, ever saw her, I cannot think of a reason why I wouldn't share that with him. I mean, why would we ignore that? I agree. My H and fOW don't work together anymore, but we still live in the same locale, and hang in similar social circles because of Church programs. Plus my H is known as a performer. I want to know when she is around. I have no plans on being surprised. I'm sure she does the same. But there is a thing as too much, but one needs to go to their actual BS to find out what it is. The WS deciding that their level of transparency is good enough is basically saying to the BS that their feelings don't matter - and never have.
wheelwright Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 get your ass home stay your ass home give access to all forms of communication submit to a lie detector test every 2 weeks:lmao: You ARE funny. You could do stand up about betrayal. Gotta love your posts.
Samantha0905 Posted July 3, 2010 Posted July 3, 2010 I am amazed how many WSs feel they are being punished when asked about their affair. I do not expect anyone to put the AP on ignore initially. Just total indifference....eventually, especially if they truly want to re-commit to the marriage. I don't know if I could ever feel totally indifferent about another person. I may eventually feel indifferent about the sex part. I think it shows the BS may have already forgiven, but not yet healed from the affair. If more discussion is necessary for the BS to heal, they will indicate that to the WS, who should be more than ready to oblige. Discussion has nothing to do with forgiveness, IMO, just understanding. I agree, but after a while I think it needs to be turned loose.I think it becomes psychologically unhealthy after a period of time for both parties and for the marriage.I don't think you will ever know 100% why it went on as the WS probably doesn't know themselves. I think you should ask your spouse what they would like from you in the event of a sighting. I wouldn't.On the other hand, my spouse wouldn't make it a preoccupation. It may be a difference between men and women(at the risk of sounding sexist.) All true, BUT what do you see as the role of the WS to repair the marriage and restore trust? Who decides how much transparency is needed? You or you spouse? I think it's a joint decision because the two of you have decided to forge on and work on the marriage. Marriage is a joint partnership. I have to admit, however, I would have someone dictating to me to see my emails, etc. It almost reeks of being on parole or something. You have to report in to your officer? No thanks.The role of the WS would be to sincerely be regretful, be as participative in the marriage as possible and to not have an affair ever again. Who says it is grilling or negative? My fWS could not wait to prove how honest he was after it ended. He knew it was a necessary component of reconciliation. He wanted me to trust him again and did what ever he could to prove it to me. He did not feel punished, but was grateful to have the opportunity to do so. I'm glad he felt that way as it seems to be something which makes you happy/proud.It would be like an inquisition after a while. As I've said, I get it initially but it seems like it would be counterproductive after a while.....
Dexter Morgan Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 You ARE funny. You could do stand up about betrayal. Gotta love your posts. well, that would be transparency, would it not?
Spark1111 Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 I don't know if I could ever feel totally indifferent about another person. I may eventually feel indifferent about the sex part. [/b] I agree, but after a while I think it needs to be turned loose.I think it becomes psychologically unhealthy after a period of time for both parties and for the marriage.I don't think you will ever know 100% why it went on as the WS probably doesn't know themselves. This is the scariest statement to a reconciling BS: "I don't think you will ever know 100% why it went on as the WS probably doesn't know themselves." I could not reconcile with this person, ever. I wouldn't.On the other hand, my spouse wouldn't make it a preoccupation. It may be a difference between men and women(at the risk of sounding sexist.) I think it's a joint decision because the two of you have decided to forge on and work on the marriage. Marriage is a joint partnership. I have to admit, however, I would have someone dictating to me to see my emails, etc. It almost reeks of being on parole or something. You have to report in to your officer? No thanks.The role of the WS would be to sincerely be regretful, be as participative in the marriage as possible and to not have an affair ever again. Agreed. So how did you restore trust? By promising to be trustworthy after an affair? I'm glad he felt that way as it seems to be something which makes you happy/proud.It would be like an inquisition after a while. As I've said, I get it initially but it seems like it would be counterproductive after a while..... No, it makes me proud that he was truly remorseful and willing to do the heavy-lifting to prove he deeply loved me and was re-commited to us. I didn't want to stay married to him. I refused to stay in a marital contract without love and passion. I wouldn't settle for less than that.
Spark1111 Posted July 6, 2010 Posted July 6, 2010 The WS deciding that their level of transparency is good enough is basically saying to the BS that their feelings don't matter - and never have. Couln't agree more. It IS DISREPECTFUL, IMO. OFG, ask your husband what HE want from you. That is respectful.
Author OFGnomore Posted July 7, 2010 Author Posted July 7, 2010 Couln't agree more. It IS DISREPECTFUL, IMO. OFG, ask your husband what HE want from you. That is respectful. I did, and his response was basically: I'm not going to babysit you, check your email or verify your stories. You confessed on your own accord, you provided me with emails from xMMs work place that confirmed your stories I not going to stay in a M with constant suspicion. If you want to tell me when you see xMM around town it's up to you. I'd want to know contact though. And if you ever cheat again for any reason, I will ask no questions. I will begin divorce proceedings without any discussion. My issue has been, I feel guilt when I see xMM even in the most harmless situations. It triggers the time when I would see him and H didn't know about it. It's truly my issue and I think I almost neurotically tell him just so I never feel like there is anything kept from him again. But I wonder if it just keeps the pain alive.
Spark1111 Posted July 7, 2010 Posted July 7, 2010 Very well could be, OFG! I know my husband triggers too, almost more than I do today. And it's okay to discuss that with your spouse: your pain, remorse, regret and WHY you are triggering. It a conversation that needs to be negotiated. Your husband has been very clear with you about his needs. Maybe you need to discuss with him your issues, and your needs to disclose sightings as they trigger the pain you feel over your actions?
NoIDidn't Posted July 7, 2010 Posted July 7, 2010 I did, and his response was basically: I'm not going to babysit you, check your email or verify your stories. You confessed on your own accord, you provided me with emails from xMMs work place that confirmed your stories I not going to stay in a M with constant suspicion. If you want to tell me when you see xMM around town it's up to you. I'd want to know contact though. And if you ever cheat again for any reason, I will ask no questions. I will begin divorce proceedings without any discussion. My issue has been, I feel guilt when I see xMM even in the most harmless situations. It triggers the time when I would see him and H didn't know about it. It's truly my issue and I think I almost neurotically tell him just so I never feel like there is anything kept from him again. But I wonder if it just keeps the pain alive. Wow. I'm not a man, but that's what I told my H. No discussions if it happens again. And I am a W, not a warden or a babysitter. My H also went through the phase of telling everytime he saw xOW, even just in passing. It didn't keep the pain alive, but it got annoying and that was when we had the "argument" about what was expected of him and me if we were to stay married. If I asked to see his email, I wanted him to show me. I didn't want his passwords. I wanted to know if he spoke to her beyond be polite. I didn't want to suspect anything for the rest of my life with him, and he didn't want to feel like I was never going to trust him again. After that "argument", we never had another problem with transparency regarding his EA or Rs with any other women in his life. It was very productive.
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