Men and women

[Diezel]

I wrote out something, but it's pointless.

If someone doesn't see it your way, they're wrong.

 

Just call a spade a spade and tell people to agree with you. That way I can stop wasting my time. Because as soon as I try to give an explanation, it's equated to calling you a liar.

 

You already made up your mind before you made this thread, you just want people to agree with you.

[Shucksaw]

I wrote out something, but it's pointless.

If someone doesn't see it your way, they're wrong.

 

Just call a spade a spade and tell people to agree with you. That way I can stop wasting my time. Because as soon as I try to give an explanation, it's equated to calling you a liar.

 

You already made up your mind before you made this thread, you just want people to agree with you.

[sigh] Another false accusation.

 

Maybe we don’t agree or maybe you can’t help me. Maybe you have good intentions. Maybe I should get over it.. maybe not.

 

But what’s the point of accusing me?

[sweetjasmine]

Women are portrayed as sex objects by all forms of media, its not going to stop anytime soon.

 

I agree, and this is exactly where OP's problems and feelings come from.

 

Society objectifying women encourages women to objectify themselves. Both men and women encourage women to view themselves as objects and define their worth by their appearance and sexual attractiveness.

 

So it should be absolutely no mystery that a lot of women are going to feel threatened when their partners use other sex objects to get off. That's where these feelings of inadequacy and competition come from.

[Shucksaw]

I agree, and this is exactly where OP's problems and feelings come from.

 

Society objectifying women encourages women to objectify themselves. Both men and women encourage women to view themselves as objects and define their worth by their appearance and sexual attractiveness.

 

So it should be absolutely no mystery that a lot of women are going to feel threatened when their partners use other sex objects to get off. That's where these feelings of inadequacy and competition come from.

 

I think there is truth in this.

 

But how to overcome the issue?

[Ruby Slippers]

So it should be absolutely no mystery that a lot of women are going to feel threatened when their partners use other sex objects to get off. That's where these feelings of inadequacy and competition come from.

I think there's more to it than that.

 

I agree with Shucksaw -- when I love a man, I really don't check out other men at all. It's like that part of my brain just shuts off, and I only have those kind of feelings of desire and sexy thoughts about my man. Trying to check out another man like that or masturbate to a picture or video or some other guy would feel... like my heart was straying. Why would I want to rouse those feelings with some other man, when I have this great man I love and am crazy about?

 

It takes no effort on my part to indulge in my desire only for my partner. It's as natural to me as breathing.

 

So that's the source of my sadness. I know that men tend to be better at compartmentalizing sex and love than women, but since my mind and heart don't work like that, it's hard to believe that his do. I understand it rationally, but that does nothing to eliminate the emotional response. You can't tell yourself how to feel. You can control your behavior appropriately, but the feelings are coming out.

[carhill]

OP, IMO, there's two separate issues...

 

First, him checking out other women in your presence, that's a relationship and communication issue. You set the boundaries that you feel positive about regarding such behavior and then enforce them. If that means his noodle doesn't enjoy your presence, well, that's what it means. I would not expect him to alter that part of his personality, though he *can* alter the behaviors

 

Second, wrt porn and sexual objects, that's fantasy; you're reality. If you want to set personal boundaries as to how he expresses fantasies to you or around you, that sounds healthy. It's unreasonable to expect him to forgo his own fantasies to please you. It's a part of compatibility. If you're incompatible in this way and it's a deal-breaker for you, accept that. In that case, he's not 'wrong', rather 'wrong for you'.

 

Are all men like this? No, we're all different. I will guarantee you that the likelihood of finding an exact copy of your intrinsic psychology in a man is a pipe dream on steroids. At best, you'll find someone who is compatible in the areas of mutual importance and you both will be able to compromise on the rest. The key is you *both* compromise. I noted a few of his potential compromises above. He won't be alone in that work. Good luck

[A O]

Today I stumbled upon my dad’s collection. Dozens and dozens of pictures of naked or semi-naked young girls (not paedophile young, but girls my age or younger). Those girls look nothing like my mom.

Kudos for starting yet another anti-porn thread (in disguise). Great idea to go with a general theme heading to help fly under the 'everyone's tired of porn' sentiment flying around at the moment. Brickbats though for using a tired old excuse - supposedly fixing a computer that somehow has you "stumbling" on daddy's porn collection. A stumble that affords you the time to note the content, variety and size of said collection no less!

 

Society objectifying women encourages women to objectify themselves.

Define society and tell us, in your view, who encourages women most within your definition?

 

 

.

[Shucksaw]

Carhill, thanks for your reply.

I guess my question is: do all men sexually desire other women? Is it impossible to find a man who only has eyes for his woman?

If he has that need to check out other women, it really doesn’t matter if it is my presence or not.

 

Ruby, this is exactly how I feel, word by word!

Thank you for explaining it better that I did.

[A O]

I guess my question is: do all men sexually desire other women? Is it impossible to find a man who only has eyes for his woman? If he has that need to check out other women, it really doesn’t matter if it is my presence or not.

Lets use your logic the other way around.

 

What do you think of women who need to look attractive while not in the company of their SO? Why do they have a need to feel desirable to everyone, not just their SO? And given that fashion and make up is as large, if not a larger industry than porn - then what does that say about women in general? Are there actually any women out there who only wants to be desired by just their significant other?

 

 

.

[Jersey Shortie]

LOL its been going on a lot longer than just today.

 

Men will ALWAYS lust after the female body. Not saying its right to have a hidden collection of porn when you are married, but its just part of being human, living in this sex fueled society.

 

Part of being human is responding to real women, not fantasy women. Men conditioned themselves to the tech age and then we all try to defend it as "natural". It's not natural to spend time infront of your computer oggling fake women. It is natural be turned on by a woman's body. There is a distinction. Now I am not saying men shouldn't be attracted to women. Of course they should be. But society in general, men in general, coodle each other so that they don't have to really man up at all. Any real growth in sexuality is quite stunted, even as we tell ourselves how advanced we are just because sex is more in your face.

 

Women are portrayed as sex objects by all forms of media, its not going to stop anytime soon.

 

That doesn't mean men or women have to treat women as sex objects. You seem to be saying "oh wells! Suck it up ladies! You're worth is nothing but based on sex!" Come on, that's lazy! If men want respect, try repsecting women.

 

 

Society objectifying women encourages women to objectify themselves. Both men and women encourage women to view themselves as objects and define their worth by their appearance and sexual attractiveness.

 

So it should be absolutely no mystery that a lot of women are going to feel threatened when their partners use other sex objects to get off. That's where these feelings of inadequacy and competition come from.

 

And if you are just a sex object, why should your feelings be considered? This is the stance too many men take. they claim they love women. They claim they respect women. But when push comes to shove it's about defending their right to objectify women and ignore a woman's feelings. Since we are only sex objects, our feelings are worthless.

[A O]

It's not natural to spend time infront of your computer oggling fake women. It is natural be turned on by a woman's body. There is a distinction.

What is this distinction?

 

They claim they respect women. But when push comes to shove it's about defending their right to objectify women and ignore a woman's feelings.

So, using your logic - women who objectify themselves, especially all those who do so when not in the company of their men, clearly - they're not giving a toss about the feelings of their men either!

 

Since we are only sex objects, our feelings are worthless.

If this were true then not only would rape be rampant, it would carry very little penalty, if any penalty at all!!

 

 

.

[sweetjasmine]

I agree with Shucksaw -- when I love a man, I really don't check out other men at all. It's like that part of my brain just shuts off, and I only have those kind of feelings of desire and sexy thoughts about my man.

 

I notice other people and look, but that's about it. I don't get feelings of desire/sexy thoughts about them, but I do look.

 

I understand it rationally, but that does nothing to eliminate the emotional response.

 

Yup. And even though I disagree with JS on a few things when it comes to this topic, she's right when she says that people here tend to invalidate women's feelings on the issues with comments like "deal with it!" or "you're just being irrational and insecure." It's obnoxious.

 

Brickbats though for using a tired old excuse - supposedly fixing a computer that somehow has you "stumbling" on daddy's porn collection. A stumble that affords you the time to note the content, variety and size of said collection no less!

 

I've actually done this, back when my dad hadn't quite figured out how to avoid downloading viruses that set your homepage to sexyteensandtheirmoms dot com or whatever the ef it was and bombarded you with pop-ups whenever you opened up IE. Not to mention never clearing the browsing history and accidentally saving videos to the desktop.

 

Define society and tell us, in your view, who encourages women most within your definition?

 

I'm talking about mainstream American society, and it doesn't matter at all who encourages women most. Why would it? Women encourage women in certain ways, and men encourage women in other ways. What's your point? Why would it matter if men do it more or women do it more? It still happens, and it still causes a lot of problems.

[sweetjasmine]

If this were true then not only would rape be rampant, it would carry very little penalty, if any penalty at all!!

 

Only a fraction of rapes are reported (93,934 reported in 2005, FBI estimates that 37% are reported), and out of those, only a fraction result in pressed charges and a guilty conviction.

 

How many years does the average rapist serve?

 

I wouldn't call it rampant, but it's nothing to sneeze at, and if you expand it to sexual assault, then 1 in 3 women will experience it in their lifetime.

[MrNate]

Well, I'm a heterosexual guy, so I'll keep it simple. Even when in a relationship, unless something happens, and there's a drastic change in my hormonal composition, I'm always going to look at women. Ex: I'll always find Jessica Alba gorgeous, dating or not. Because why? I'm heterosexual. Also, I believe obsessing over any one person/object just isn't healthy. Just my opinion.

 

And this isn't world play, or dodging around the issue, this is 100% truth for me and most men.

 

I think our time is much better spent not obsessing how we can become the center of someone else's world, and understanding the world doesn't revolve around anyone. This would make for much healthier attitudes, which would hopefully lead to greater peace of mind.

[Jersey Shortie]

You don't care about what is healthiest Mr.Nate. You care about proping up an environment and mentality that best suits your masculine desire. What you just said has little to do with relationships and everything to do with what *you* want as a man.

[MrNate]

You don't care about what is healthiest Mr.Nate. You care about proping up an environment and mentality that best suits your masculine desire. What you just said has little to do with relationships and everything to do with what *you* want as a man.

 

Hm, so I guess the question is: Who defines what's healthiest?

 

Propping up an environment that best suits me? Well duh. Of course I am. I want my life to be easy on me. I expect women to do the same- make their environment into one that best suits them.

 

And yeah, what I said applies both to relationships and what I want as a man.

 

When you cast aside all your wants and desires for someone else. That is the epitome of unhealthiness. There's no person in this world worth losing who you are over.

[Stung]

Well, I'm a heterosexual guy, so I'll keep it simple. Even when in a relationship, unless something happens, and there's a drastic change in my hormonal composition, I'm always going to look at women. Ex: I'll always find Jessica Alba gorgeous, dating or not. Because why? I'm heterosexual. Also, I believe obsessing over any one person/object just isn't healthy. Just my opinion.

 

And this isn't world play, or dodging around the issue, this is 100% truth for me and most men.

 

I think our time is much better spent not obsessing how we can become the center of someone else's world, and understanding the world doesn't revolve around anyone. This would make for much healthier attitudes, which would hopefully lead to greater peace of mind.

 

 

Okay. For the record, I was not addressing any of the other issues in this thread, solely the anger directed at another form of sexual expression. I was not personally calling other forms of sexual expression and experience unnatural or unhealthy. In response to your post in particular Mr. Nate, I think you should be careful throwing around judgemental words like 'obsessive' and 'unhealthy' here, rather than trying to understand another viewpoint. Just because my sexuality tends to be more focused than yours and is not only physically but also emotionally based, doesn't mean it is unhealthy. I can't speak for anyone else in this thread but I can guarantee you I am not 'obsessed' with my husband, and my world does not revolve around him, although of course I do love him and he makes my world a better place to be in. I am a grown woman with children, hobbies, friends, family, ambitions. I do have sexual and romantic/emotional thoughts and feelings throughout the day, at which time I think I'll be glad when I get the baby to sleep so I can trip my husband and bone him on the floor.

 

Personally I agree that the OP will have to learn to view herself, her own sexuality, and her mate's sexuality in a somewhat different light in order to feel comfortable. That's often part of the maturation process for both sexes. It doesn't mean that she has to view her naturally monogamous mindset as 'unhealthy' and it doesn't mean that the jaded males of this board, tired of the hashed-over porn subject, should feel free to attack or belittle a young woman who is questioning valid issues of human sexuality.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Stung

[Ruby Slippers]

Are there actually any women out there who only wants to be desired by just their significant other?

When I am in a loving, committed relationship, I don't care one bit what other men think of me.

 

Also, I believe obsessing over any one person/object just isn't healthy. Just my opinion.

 

I think our time is much better spent not obsessing how we can become the center of someone else's world, and understanding the world doesn't revolve around anyone. This would make for much healthier attitudes, which would hopefully lead to greater peace of mind.

The definition of obsession is "a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an often unreasonable idea or feeling".

 

There's nothing disturbing or unreasonable about nurturing the strong bond of a loving partnership. Quite the contrary -- it's healthy, stabilizing, good for your health, and beneficial in myriad ways.

 

I could engage in any number of activities destructive to the relationship and explain them away "because I'm a woman", but I don't do them because the power of a real connection trumps any of those meaningless diversions.

[MrNate]

Okay. For the record, I was not addressing any of the other issues in this thread, solely the anger directed at another form of sexual expression. I was not personally calling other forms of sexual expression and experience unnatural or unhealthy. In response to your post in particular Mr. Nate, I think you should be careful throwing around judgemental words like 'obsessive' and 'unhealthy' here, rather than trying to understand another viewpoint. Just because my sexuality tends to be more focused than yours and is not only physically but also emotionally based, doesn't mean it is unhealthy. I can't speak for anyone else in this thread but I can guarantee you I am not 'obsessed' with my husband, and my world does not revolve around him, although of course I do love him and he makes my world a better place to be in. I am a grown woman with children, hobbies, friends, family, ambitions. I do have sexual and romantic/emotional thoughts and feelings throughout the day, at which time I think I'll be glad when I get the baby to sleep so I can trip my husband and bone him on the floor.

 

Personally I agree that the OP will have to learn to view herself, her own sexuality, and her mate's sexuality in a somewhat different light in order to feel comfortable. That's often part of the maturation process for both sexes. It doesn't mean that she has to view her naturally monogamous mindset as 'unhealthy' and it doesn't mean that the jaded males of this board, tired of the hashed-over porn subject, should feel free to attack or belittle a young woman who is questioning valid issues of human sexuality.

 

Two things:

 

1.'Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.' My comment above was not directed towards anyone, and simply states my opinion. I just don't think heavily obsessing over anything is healthy. Again, that's not directed towards anyone here, it's just my sole opinion. Why you decided to pick me out? I don't know, but you should be careful about what you say as well.

 

2.Also, as I've stated earlier, the OP must find the inner courage to tackle this issue, and not run around it. Avoiding it will only create pain, frustration, etc. (fight or flight).

 

Let's do our best to avoid calling others out on their opinions, and focus on helping the OP.

 

Thank you.

[Shucksaw]

Kudos for starting yet another anti-porn thread (in disguise). Great idea to go with a general theme heading to help fly under the 'everyone's tired of porn' sentiment flying around at the moment. Brickbats though for using a tired old excuse - supposedly fixing a computer that somehow has you "stumbling" on daddy's porn collection. A stumble that affords you the time to note the content, variety and size of said collection no less!

I was hoping I could avoid pointless accusations…. Oh well, here it goes…

 

1. I maintain and backup all computers in our house. This is the first time I ‘stumbled on’ something like this. This time I noticed something unusual; my dad obviously forgot to delete it or copy it to dvd or whatever he wanted to do with it… This may not even be his porn collection, someone could’ve sent it to him, whatever. It does not matter.

No one questions the fact that men in their 50’s are still attracted to 18 year olds.

Even if I never found anything like this on my dad’s computer, the issue would still exist, right?

 

Of course, once I found it, I looked – for about 2-3 min. Felt weird, confused and a bit disgusted, stopped looking, left backing up process on and went for a walk. When I came back, my backup was finished. I didn’t look any more. I open my own laptop and typed this post. This is the whole story.

 

Now I said everything. If you still don’t believe me, that is your choice. I am not going to waist any more time defending myself over something that is not really relevant. It was only a TRIGGER.

 

 

2. Porn is only part of my problem and I could even accept it under certain circumstances. I don’t want this to become a porn thread – I have no moral issues with porn, I have my opinion on porn, but I’d rather leave it for another thread; I don’t want to digress from the topic of this thread any more than I already have.

 

 

 

Now, if everyone is happy with that, I would like to go back to and focus on the issue from the OP.

[Shucksaw]

Lets use your logic the other way around.

 

What do you think of women who need to look attractive while not in the company of their SO? Why do they have a need to feel desirable to everyone, not just their SO? And given that fashion and make up is as large, if not a larger industry than porn - then what does that say about women in general? Are there actually any women out there who only wants to be desired by just their significant other?

I do. And Ruby, who already answered you question. I’m sure we are not the only two women in the world who feel like this.

 

Besides, can you please explain to me how you actually STOP being attractive when not in the company of your SO?

 

And how is that different for what men do? Men are not immune to fashion. Not so much make up, but hair products for example? Not to mention all those treatments for boldness.

 

What you are talking about is not ‘the other way around’.

It is a separate issue altogether.

 

What is this distinction?

AO, I certainly hope there is a distinction. Are you saying you don’t see any?

 

So, using your logic - women who objectify themselves, especially all those who do so when not in the company of their men, clearly - they're not giving a toss about the feelings of their men either!

You can’t possibly objectify yourself! That is an oxymoron.

 

If this were true then not only would rape be rampant, it would carry very little penalty, if any penalty at all!!

What rape has to do with this??

I’m sorry, but I find the fact that you are bringing rape into this discussion disturbing.

 

Well, I'm a heterosexual guy, so I'll keep it simple. Even when in a relationship, unless something happens, and there's a drastic change in my hormonal composition, I'm always going to look at women. Ex: I'll always find Jessica Alba gorgeous, dating or not. Because why? I'm heterosexual.

 

I assume that, as a heterosexual man, by ‘finding her gorgeous’, you mean you would do her?

 

Hypothetical question: assuming you are in a relationship – if Jessica Alba miraculously appears in your local coffee shop and shares a nice cup of coffee with you, would you try to do more with her? What if she offers?

 

.

And this isn't world play, or dodging around the issue, this is 100% truth for me and most men.

I don’t think you’re dodging around the issue. Thanks for you honesty.

[Diezel]

Hypothetical question: assuming you are in a relationship – if Jessica Alba miraculously appears in your local coffee shop and shares a nice cup of coffee with you, would you try to do more with her? What if she offers?

 

I've been watching this thread, and right here, is where I can tell that you are a smart woman, and I really hope your boyfriend stays on his toes...

 

Loaded question much? And moreso to serve YOUR general purpose.

 

If someone answers YES: You say, SEE, all men are like that, pigs, how could they possibly be devoted? They'd cheat at the drop of a hat with someone based on how good they look or their status, and since they would do that and I wouldn't, they are wrong for doing so. Finding someone attractive = Sexual Desire... annnd EWWWWWW.

 

If someone answers NO: Ohhh, you see, people DO see the world as I see it. You CAN just find ONE single person attractive in this world and ignore all others, so I must be right.

 

 

You wouldn't be able to win with an answer either way.

[aerogurl87]

My boyfriend doesn't watch porn anymore. To him it's just not something he does while he's in a committed relationship because he finds it to be disrespectful.

 

By the way if your boyfriend is looking at naked pics of girls with his buddies, that sounds kinda weird to me. Porn isn't a team sport unless your watching a threesome or an orgy.

Edited July 3, 2010 by aerogurl87

[Shucksaw]

I notice other people and look, but that's about it. I don't get feelings of desire/sexy thoughts about them, but I do look.

Fair enough.

You know what, If my BF looked like that, I would have no issues at all!

 

Yup. And even though I disagree with JS on a few things when it comes to this topic, she's right when she says that people here tend to invalidate women's feelings on the issues with comments like "deal with it!" or "you're just being irrational and insecure." It's obnoxious.

Quoted for truth.

 

I'm talking about mainstream American society, and it doesn't matter at all who encourages women most. Why would it? Women encourage women in certain ways, and men encourage women in other ways. What's your point? Why would it matter if men do it more or women do it more? It still happens, and it still causes a lot of problems.

I agree 100%

It is completely irrelevant who encourages it.

 

 

. It doesn't mean that she has to view her naturally monogamous mindset as 'unhealthy' …QUOTE]

Does this imply that most people don’t have ‘naturally monogamous mindset’?

 

…it doesn't mean that the jaded males of this board, tired of the hashed-over porn subject, should feel free to attack or belittle a young woman who is questioning valid issues of human sexuality.

Thank you!

[Gero]

My boyfriend doesn't watch porn anymore. To him it's just not something he does while he's in a committed relationship because he finds it to be disrespectful.

 

By the way if your boyfriend is looking at naked pics of girls with his buddies, that sounds kinda weird to me. Porn isn't a team sport unless your watching a threesome or an orgy.

 

I know that some guys don't watch porn and all that stuff when in a serious relationship. I've seen it. It's not something that's really common but some men are like that.

 

As for the looking at naked pictures with friends, a lot of guys do that. At my last job, the other guys at my work would be showing each other porn and stuff all of the time. I always thought it was weird and didn't relate.

 

To me, porn has always served a purpose, so why would I watch porn with friends just for the entertainment value? Just like when other guys comment on whether a chick looks hot or not to me or ask me if I think she's hot. I always feel weird in that situation.

 

It's probably that I am an introvert and more of an old-fashioned type guy and I don't talk about those types of things with other people.