USMCHokie Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 Ok, quick summary first. As per my previous posts, I was dating two girls. I ended it with one of them last night and told her straight up that there were incompatibilities which prevented anything from continuing long term. I am also thinking about ending it with the other girl too. After all this, I realized that although I'm attracted to both of them, I don't think I'm attracted "enough" and almost feel like I could "do better" due to my recently increasing self-confidence. And this might be the reason why I haven't been feeling that "spark" with them...because I subconsciously (or maybe even consciously) want someone who is even more attractive. And to be honest, it makes me feel like a completely shallow douche...and I'm a little disgusted with myself... In years past, when my confidence and esteem was lacking, I approached dating with the "beggars can't be choosers" attitude, where I'd be interested in any girl just because she showed an interest in me. But now I feel a lot better about myself and am more comfortable approaching attractive women who I'm interested in and making them interested in me. I know how important confidence is in the dating game, but is this sort of behavior normal? Does confidence cause us to raise our expectations and want more than we've had before? For those who experienced increased confidence later in life, did you ever feel that you could "do better" as far as physical attractiveness?
Diezel Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 Marine, you're killing me here. Everytime I read another of these "Every woman is not good enough for me, except my EX" threads from you, I want to gouge my eyes out. Look, confidence does NOT make you shallow... it makes you SELECTIVE. It means you get to PICK who you would like to be with based on a set of criteria. It's called "NOT SETTLING" and when you become older, that's NOT a bad thing at all. When you're younger, you take just about ANYTHING, but as you grow older, you begin to realize what behaviors you'll tolerate and what'll physically spark an attraction for you. Again, it's SELECTIVE, not SHALLOW. It means you're doing it RIGHT.
Author USMCHokie Posted July 2, 2010 Author Posted July 2, 2010 Marine, you're killing me here. Everytime I read another of these "Every woman is not good enough for me, except my EX" threads from you, I want to gouge my eyes out. Look, confidence does NOT make you shallow... it makes you SELECTIVE. It means you get to PICK who you would like to be with based on a set of criteria. It's called "NOT SETTLING" and when you become older, that's NOT a bad thing at all. When you're younger, you take just about ANYTHING, but as you grow older, you begin to realize what behaviors you'll tolerate and what'll physically spark an attraction for you. Again, it's SELECTIVE, not SHALLOW. It means you're doing it RIGHT. Thanks for the straight up response. The only reason I say shallow is because these girls are otherwise good people with good personalities that I seem to get along great with. But one of the reasons that I don't want to be in a relationship with them is because I don't think they are pretty enough for me...? It definitely sounds like a d*ck move on my part...and it's definitely not something I'm particularly proud of...
Diezel Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 Again, that's not being shallow. I'm sure there are plenty of women who'd say the same about you. They'd probably think they are out of your league. What you are doing is NO different and it's NOT wrong. If you believe you should be with someone more attractive, than you SHOULD. Why lie to yourself about what you want and settle for less? At least you KNOW what you WANT.
TheBigQuestion Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 I've turned down dating several women in my life for not being good looking enough and other similarly shallow reasons. I have standards and I'm not ashamed of it. I have personality standards as well, of course. Don't feel bad.
pantherj Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 Anytime a person becomes more physically attactive, it takes a while for that person to determine their new market value. Maybe a person was a '6', but lost weight and got into great shape, and now they're an '8'. Once you settle into your new market value, you should be able to form a long term relationship. I don't think any guy should go on a second date with a girl who doesn't meet these 3 criteria: 1.) She is looks beautiful to you. Eyes, hair, nairs, smile, ect. The subtleties of female beauty. 2.) She looks sexy to you. Her body has the right shape and tone, and you want to have wild passionate sex with her. 3.) Her personality makes you happy, and puts you at ease. You have good chemistry together. There are some guys out there who select women based solely on the second criteria, and that's fine for a one night stand. But if you want LTR, then I think your partner needs to meet all 3 criteria. Women seem to be entirely different. If the girl is physically attracted to a man, then the other criteria go out the window. I'm not saying all women are that way, of course not. But I know a lot of women who stay in long term relationships with guys who are total a$$#ols. Guy looks like he was hit in the face with a frying pan, has a vile attitude 24/7, treats her like trash, but the girl is physically attracted to the guy, so she makes it work. She'll put on rose colored glasses, and lie to herself and everyone else about him. Every father who has a daughter lives in fear that she will lose her mind over a rotten guy who only has physical attaction going for him. So this is the major difference I'm trying to explain: Guy meets a girl who he only finds to be sexy, nothing else. Sleeps with her, and then ditches her. Girl meets a guy who she only finds to be sexy, sleeps with him, and something switches in her brain :love::love:, now suddenly this rotten person is a prince who can do no wrong. WTH?
fishtaco Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 Sounds like you're doing things right. I'm in the same boat. Back when I was the "nice guy", I would have dated any of the women that are interested in me right now. Some of them are quite nice, as in "they have great personalities". But since I've gained more understanding of how dating works, and I've given up my nice guy ways, I've become more successful, and as a result, became more picky. It is what it is. When your dating value becomes higher, you become more picky. That's how it is with men, and that's how it is with women too.
phineas Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 I just signed my D-papers so i havn't been dateing anyone. However throughout the whole ordeal i've lost 50lbs & added some good muscle. every time I drop a waist size I look at my potential prospects after divorce & decide I can do better. And why not?
Morals Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 Being selective is different from being shallow. There's an inherent difference. Being selective means "I like this girl for these qualities, AND the things she doesn't like, and I respect her differences". Being shallow means "I like this girl for her qualities, but I think I can find a better girl". Ask anyone out there in a relationship if they think they could find someone "better" and I'm sure they would say yes. The object of a relationship is finding someone your compatible with, the first time you have a fight, what's going to happen? You going to say "I can find a girl I don't fight with"? That being said, I think that dating multiple women at one time, as you stated in your first post, does breed a little too much confidence. You get the sensation that since two women want you at the same time, you can pick and choose. The problem with the situation is you aren't giving EITHER woman a chance. You feel that because of the situation, you can get other women. Your behavior is cyclical. You will lose both of them because of your obnoxious behavior towards them, and then you will be back on here saying "Why am I not in a relationship? I have a great body and a great personality!" My suggestion is to choose the one that you enjoy being with more, break it off nicely with the other one and go from there. You will find that all of a sudden, you start seeing qualities and behaviors in the one you chose that you didn't notice before. This will allow you to compare your behaviors and ensure that she is right for you. Otherwise, you will find yourself choosing too late, for the wrong reasons, and it will fall apart.
sally4sara Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 If you met a girl that you got on with really well and had tons of things in common with AND thought they were attractive, but took a pass because you feel you can get someone better looking? I'd say yeah, you might be becoming shallow. So my next question would be: What if you met a girl that was much more attractive that you got on OKAY with and had only ONE thing in common with? Would you rather be with her JUST because she was more attractive? If you would rather be with her, despite a lack of compatibility in other areas, then yes - you've grown shallow. Only you know which way it is.
Green Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 I think 1) confidence is a GREAT THING. You have to CHANGE the way you think about it. If you are dumping girls you LIKE because they don't rank high enough on some imaginary SCALE of looks... then that is UNCONFIDENT. Just ask yourself one simple question, AM I ATTRACTED. Don't break it down to "THEY ARE NOT PRETTY ENOUGH." Oh and DON'T START DATING girls who you are not attracted to and you won't run into this problem. Pretty simple.
Jersey Shortie Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 Well, just make sure your expecations are not out of the world. Every woman wants her guy to be totally attracted to her. You wouldn't be doing anyone any favors by staying with a woman you only felt so-so about. But I doubt you would be with a woman just because she was very attractive either. There needs to be more both ways. If you are passing up on women that you feel a connection with but you don't consider attractive, there is something you have to think about. I will say though that I do think today's men have bought into what the media has sold them about female beauty and therefore, even guys with average looks and jobs hold expectations about what they *deserve* or how real woman don't measure up because men today all think they deserve Maxim models. And if you have a girl just that hot, you might think it makes you a better man. Which does say something about a lack of confidence in yourself as a man if you evaulate your worth on the attractiveness of the woman you are with. That's unfair preasure on her, no matter how hot she is.
Stung Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 Anytime a person becomes more physically attactive, it takes a while for that person to determine their new market value. Maybe a person was a '6', but lost weight and got into great shape, and now they're an '8'. Once you settle into your new market value, you should be able to form a long term relationship. I don't think any guy should go on a second date with a girl who doesn't meet these 3 criteria: 1.) She is looks beautiful to you. Eyes, hair, nairs, smile, ect. The subtleties of female beauty. 2.) She looks sexy to you. Her body has the right shape and tone, and you want to have wild passionate sex with her. 3.) Her personality makes you happy, and puts you at ease. You have good chemistry together. There are some guys out there who select women based solely on the second criteria, and that's fine for a one night stand. But if you want LTR, then I think your partner needs to meet all 3 criteria. Women seem to be entirely different. If the girl is physically attracted to a man, then the other criteria go out the window. I'm not saying all women are that way, of course not. But I know a lot of women who stay in long term relationships with guys who are total a$$#ols. Guy looks like he was hit in the face with a frying pan, has a vile attitude 24/7, treats her like trash, but the girl is physically attracted to the guy, so she makes it work. She'll put on rose colored glasses, and lie to herself and everyone else about him. Every father who has a daughter lives in fear that she will lose her mind over a rotten guy who only has physical attaction going for him. So this is the major difference I'm trying to explain: Guy meets a girl who he only finds to be sexy, nothing else. Sleeps with her, and then ditches her. Girl meets a guy who she only finds to be sexy, sleeps with him, and something switches in her brain :love::love:, now suddenly this rotten person is a prince who can do no wrong. WTH? I really wish loveshackians would get over this idea that only women make poor relationship choices. There are plenty of men who make foolish choices and align themselves with women who behave badly or treat them poorly or only want them for their money, because they're dazzled by some other aspect of them, and there are plenty of women scratching their heads as to why he puts up with her. It's a genderless phenomenon. This idea that men are far and away the more discerning sex is kind of laughable, sorry to burst your bubble. Hokie, if the butterflies aren't there, they aren't there. I hate the very idea of ascribing anybody 'market value' or 'leagues' but you're by no means obligated to keep spending time with women who don't give you that extra zing. Just keep your expectations realistic, and remember to evaluate and appreciate the whole package. Being discerning does not equal being shallow.
Mimolicious Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 USM- You're the captain of your own ship. I don't see anything wrong with having standards and keeping true to them (for the time being. LOL). At least you are not selling dreams to chicks that you are no longer feeling connected with. Now, if arrogance kicks in then... Houston we got a problem! Sorry, don't mean to TJ but what happened with the weekend trip?
norajane Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 Thanks for the straight up response. The only reason I say shallow is because these girls are otherwise good people with good personalities that I seem to get along great with. But one of the reasons that I don't want to be in a relationship with them is because I don't think they are pretty enough for me...? It definitely sounds like a d*ck move on my part...and it's definitely not something I'm particularly proud of... Do you think these girls are pretty, though? Because passing up a pretty girl who is good people and that you get along great with simply because you believe you can attract a prettier girl is really shooting yourself in the foot. There's no guarantee that the prettier girls you can attract are people you will get along great with. For a long term relationship, "get along great" is really important. And if you do think she's pretty (although maybe not as stunning as you think you can get) and are passing her up, then odds are, you aren't looking for a long term relationship.
Crazy Magnet Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 If you aren't attracted to them in a wild animal sex kind of way then feel free to move on. I think you've been waffling about them both for a while now. I've turned down plenty of men because I didn't think they were attractive. I don't think I was wrong for that in any way. I'm not desperate to be in an LTR so I wait until I find someone who has the total package. She's out there, but you have to stop wasting your time with girls you aren't really into and get back out there to look for her!
SadandConfusedWA Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 Oh, my number one reason for turning down men is because I feel that "I can do better". Looks are important (as well as other traits), but I don't want to date anyone that is below me in looks. Now, I am not exactly sure what my "market value" is, but I have started out really low with the online dating and now see that I have underestimated myself. Having said that, I have refused to meet a guy that I feel is "too good looking" for me. This guy looks like a male model, perfect body and 6-pack and an even better face. However, I need to lose 20lbs and I am aware that I currently can't offer the same level of hotness. So I stopped replying to his e-mails
TheLoneSock Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 I know how important confidence is in the dating game, but is this sort of behavior normal? Does confidence cause us to raise our expectations and want more than we've had before? For those who experienced increased confidence later in life, did you ever feel that you could "do better" as far as physical attractiveness? You just have to find your middle ground. You're basically on a pendulum that started at one end, and has now swung to the other. Just relax a bit and let it settle in the center and I think you'll be happier. Also, don't try so hard! By that I mean, if you're actively dating more than one girl, it probably means you're searching for something that can't be found, it has to come to you. My advice is to relax.
threebyfate Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 Thanks for the straight up response. The only reason I say shallow is because these girls are otherwise good people with good personalities that I seem to get along great with. But one of the reasons that I don't want to be in a relationship with them is because I don't think they are pretty enough for me...? It definitely sounds like a d*ck move on my part...and it's definitely not something I'm particularly proud of...One way to avoid this connundrum is not to date women you don't feel are the cat's meow. Forget the mercy dating aspect. But it's definitely a problem if you were initially physically attracted, then suddenly become turned off due to the superficial. No matter how physically attractive anyone is, there's always someone more attractive. As well, you also become anaesthetized to their form of attractiveness after awhile but conceptually, have bonded on other levels hence why relationships happen. Be careful you're not self-sabotaging due to the fear of being hurt again. If that's not the case, then carry on. Watch yourself for patterns of "grass is greener" behaviour.
Mr White Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 Ok, quick summary first. As per my previous posts, I was dating two girls. I ended it with one of them last night and told her straight up that there were incompatibilities which prevented anything from continuing long term. I am also thinking about ending it with the other girl too. After all this, I realized that although I'm attracted to both of them, I don't think I'm attracted "enough" and almost feel like I could "do better" due to my recently increasing self-confidence. And this might be the reason why I haven't been feeling that "spark" with them...because I subconsciously (or maybe even consciously) want someone who is even more attractive. And to be honest, it makes me feel like a completely shallow douche...and I'm a little disgusted with myself... In years past, when my confidence and esteem was lacking, I approached dating with the "beggars can't be choosers" attitude, where I'd be interested in any girl just because she showed an interest in me. But now I feel a lot better about myself and am more comfortable approaching attractive women who I'm interested in and making them interested in me. I know how important confidence is in the dating game, but is this sort of behavior normal? Does confidence cause us to raise our expectations and want more than we've had before? For those who experienced increased confidence later in life, did you ever feel that you could "do better" as far as physical attractiveness? A-ha! I'm impressed, Now that you've figured it out, the question is what to do next? I went through something similar, but eventually realized that I'd be complete idiot if I had continued to operate from this mindset.
Mr White Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 Thanks for the straight up response. The only reason I say shallow is because these girls are otherwise good people with good personalities that I seem to get along great with. But one of the reasons that I don't want to be in a relationship with them is because I don't think they are pretty enough for me...? It definitely sounds like a d*ck move on my part...and it's definitely not something I'm particularly proud of... Pull your head out of your azz --> it took me months to realize how hot my gf in fact is. I haven't seen these girls and I can't tell, but part of the issue could be not that they are not pretty enough, but that they don't conform closely to some rigid preconceived idea of what's pretty.
bac Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 Does it mean that if a person is very confident, he/or she would do mostly ONSs or very short-term relationships? Because they can get unlimited number of dates if they are very popular, and, also, because there are always hotter and sexier people around, especially if you do not sleep with them yet.
SarahRose Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 (edited) You and any partner are both going to age and not look the same over time. What will you do when your wife gains a few pounds, gets grey hair and wrinkles, trade her in for a younger model? Any of us can do better but real confidence and maturity is learning to be content with what you have. Edited July 2, 2010 by SarahRose
TouchedByViolet Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 Sounds like your feelings of attraction are bouncing between extremes. On one side you were desperate to have anyone find you attractive. The other extreme is wanting to have the most attractive women possible. Bouncing between extremes is a sign that you lack experience and maturity about relationships. You are completely normal for going through a phase like this.
Diezel Posted July 2, 2010 Posted July 2, 2010 Any of us can do better but real confidence and maturity is learning to be content with what you have. Tread carefully, there's a VERY fine line between being content and settling.
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