Are there too many differences?

June 29, 2010

I have been in a committed, fun, trusting, understanding, communicative, loving relationship for 6 months now.

There are a few factors in my relationship that make me fearful that things may not work out long term.

Firstly, I am Catholic and he is Agnostic. He is willing to allow his children to be raised as Catholics and he respects all my beliefs. My main concern here is that he will not attend sunday mass on a regular basis with me and that he won't really be able to help in teaching and raising my children in a religiuos environment.

Secondly, I'm Vietnamese/Australian and he is Australian. The biggest hurdle at the moment is that my parents very much disapprove and my mum doesn't even want to meet him. But if in the end, i'm sure that he is the one for me than I know my parents will come around and learn to love him too and welcome him as one of the family.

Thirdly and most concerning to me, marriage is not something he sees as an absolute must/goal in his life. He tells me though, that if the person that he was with (ie, me) believed in marriage and he would not want anything more than to marry. This makes me doubt that he understands the concept of 'til death do us part' because this is something that I do believe in.

In regards to sex, he is willing to wait, despite him being 34 and myself 24, he very much has had a sex life before me but has abstained from sex since being with me.

He has some many good qualities, he is balanced in work and lifestyle, practical with money without being a tightass, is close with his own family, we comunicate very easily and can talk about anything and everything. He is so understanding and supportive of issues of sex, not meeting the family, me being catholic, etc that I really really do think things will work out and I can see us growing old together.

I would love any advice about whether I would be better off ending the relationship because of his view of marriage and the cultural and religious differences instead of continuing on and wasting both of our time.

Edited June 29, 2010 by TheresaJ

June 29, 2010

I have been in a committed, fun, trusting, understanding, communicative, loving relationship for 6 months now.

There are a few factors in my relationship that make me fearful that things may not work out long term.

Firstly, I am Catholic and he is Agnostic. He is willing to allow his children to be raised as Catholics and he respects all my beliefs. My main concern here is that he will not attend sunday mass on a regular basis with me and that he won't really be able to help in teaching and raising my children in a religiuos environment.

So what?

The fact that he is willing to allow his children to be raised as Catholics is both open-minded and tolerant.

You'd have a far bigger problem on your hands if he had put his foot down and insisted he didn't want them baptised or raised in any religion, until they were old enough to make up their own minds.

As I would.

And by the way - I was a devout Roman Catholic, for the best part of 40 years, so I know what I'm talking about.

My two daughters are baptised as Roman Catholics.

Would that I could go back and change that!

Count yourself lucky he is so tolerant!

The person with the narrow view, is you, not he.

Why should he participate in something he does not believe in?

Why should he compromise his beliefs and opinions just to make you more content?

Why should he go against what he stands for, just to fit in with your ideas?

Secondly, I'm Vietnamese/Australian and he is Australian. The biggest hurdle at the moment is that my parents very much disapprove and my mum doesn't even want to meet him. But if in the end, i'm sure that he is the one for me than I know my parents will come around and learn to love him too and welcome him as one of the family.

Oh, nice.

so not only is he a victim of your religious intolerance, he is also a victim of racial prejudice by your family.

This just gets better.

Can't you see how distasteful this is?

Thirdly and most concerning to me, marriage is not something he sees as an absolute must/goal in his life. He tells me though, that if the person that he was with (ie, me) believed in marriage and he would not want anything more than to marry. This makes me doubt that he understands the concept of 'til death do us part' because this is something that I do believe in.

Then he is not for you.

If you want something really strongly, and he is not "on the same page" as you, then simply getting him to conform to your expectations will not make for an idyllic or blissful marriage.

"A man convinced against his Will, is of the same opinion, still."

He may well marry you, but if you don't think he's dedicated, then that won't change who he is.

Will it?

In regards to sex, he is willing to wait, despite him being 34 and myself 24, he very much has had a sex life before me but has abstained from sex since being with me.

Is that his decision, or yours?

See how you are trying to make him inot something he is not?

Why try so hard to change someone to what you want, and how you expect him to conform?

I'm astonished you are still with him, frankly.... or he with you.

He has some many good qualities, he is balanced in work and lifestyle, practical with money without being a tightass, is close with his own family, we comunicate very easily and can talk about anything and everything. He is so understanding and supportive of issues of sex, not meeting the family, me being catholic, etc that I really really do think things will work out and I can see us growing old together.

From where I'm standing, I very much doubt it.

In time, he will grow tired of your demands, and start making some of his own.

Either that, or you will grow tired of a man that is so intent on bending over backwards to do what you want, that he will end up looking up his own backside and become a doormat.

The whole point of marriage is equal compromise, and meeting in the middle. so far, he seems to have been doing all the changing.

What are you willing to change about yourself to make him happy?

I would love any advice about whether I would be better off ending the relationship because of his view of marriage and the cultural and religious differences instead of continuing on and wasting both of our time.

End it.

Not for your sake.

For his.

June 29, 2010

I'm not sure if any of those are deal-breakers:

#1 religion difference: not ideal, but other couples have made it work. I'd say it makes it more likely that you'll stop going to church and you're kids won't be raised in church as much as you'd like. The people that attend church regularly are the ones that just wake up on Sunday mornings and go - it's not a weekly decision on wheter to go or not - they just go. If daddy's staying home, it'll be tempting for you and kids to sleep in with him in my opinion.

#2 parents - probably not a big issue unless your boyfriend is really bothered by it. you don't want to end up in the middle of their squabbles on a regular basis

#3 marriage belief difference - this is the manifestation of the age difference; he's more mature, has been around longer and seen that most marriages are unhappy and that he's just as likely to be happy single. you're 24, so you probably don't see the world the same way he does; you still have the idealistic, romantic view that most marriages are evidence of a successful person. Marriage isn't a prize (or goal to be achieved); read the "case for marriage / reason for marriage" thread to see some very experienced viewpoints on this

My biggie is this - I truly believe now that waiting for sex until marriage is a BIG mistake. I did it too and as a result my marriage has gravely suffered from a poor sex life because my wife and I are sexually incompatible. You say he has alot of sexual experience and I gather you have none. What if you don't meet his expectations or you're not as sexually free as other women he's been with. Eventually sex with you could become a turn-off for him and he'll start not wanting it from you as much. What if you have mismatched libido's? This too can ruin marriages (as you'll see on here).

It sounds like you're very religious, which is admirable, but do a little research or talk to a marriage counselor, and you'll see that waiting for marriage is a big gamble with huge downside.

June 30, 2010

#1. I understand he is being tolerant and understanding regarding religion. Effectively, what i've presented to him is that I am religious, and he respects that, he is Agnostic, and I also respect that too.

I would never force him to go to church or believe in God. I would be happy to go to church by myself and be the sole parental Catholic teaching figure, but I want to know if the accumulation of this and other problems is too much to try and continue the relationship.

#2. Yes, my family is being prejudice, but it stems from the differences in values that are important in my day to day life, like family dynamics, respect for elders, family loyalty, gender roles, etc. I know it may be prejudice but the reality is that there are differences in eastern and western culture. (yes, i will brace myself for the criticism..)

#3. I understand I probably have a very idealistic view of marriage but I know he believes in marriage and it is something he wants, I think he just doesn't want to come across as someone who is out there desperately seeking a wife.

#4. Regarding sex, I am a reasonably liberal catholic, ie, not the best catholic around and don't blindly believe in all their doctrines. I would possibly have sex with him before marriage, if that was what i was comfortable doing but because I have doubts, I don't want to have sex yet.

To be honest I'm often astonished that we're still together too, I think if he's so much more experience in relationships/life, why would he not just leave me and find someone else who is not religious, who doesn't look at sex as reverently as it do and does not have a very traditionally ethnic family. He has known from the start that I am firm on some of my beliefs and I have always given him the option to opt out.

He says it's because we're such good friends who communicate well and can talk and work our way through these differences that he feels this relationship is worth pursuing. Is he too chicken to opt out?

June 30, 2010

the family thing will be a nightmare for you and for him on the long run... seems to me that it's all based on prejudice and that's not a very good starting point... it will only get worse... also, aren't you a bit too young for him?

June 30, 2010

Another thing... with your relationship being at only 6 months, you're both still in the butterflies in the stomach, infatuation, lust stage.. so that is probably why you're both still together despite all of these differences..

the question you should ask yourself is after this infatuation stage is over in a year or two, will you have enough commonalities and shared values and respect for each other to have a solid relationship/marriage. For reference.. at 6 months into my dating relationship with my now wife, we were still holding each other and watching CMT (Country Music Television) videos together hour upon hour in the dark and making out constantly. This stage you're still in is really no indication of what marriage with this person will be like. At 6 months, my wife was watching hockey games with me, watching guy movies with me, and being physically intimate. She didn't really enjoy any of those things but she did them because we were in that lust stage. You're both likely putting on an act to woo the other person that isn't completely the true you.

Don't be in a rush to get married - you're only 24 and you may think you know who you are, but you most like don't know. Or maybe you know who you are right now, but that person will probably change in 5 years into a new person with more experience in life and a new lense filter through which to view the world. Maybe you'll be lucky and marry the right person for you at a young age, but marrying young is a common indicator of divorce, and you already have alot of questions about this guy (rightfully so).

So my advice is to just keep having fun and be a young person (you only get to be 24 for one year in your life) and don't be so concerned about "where is this going?" thoughts. Give the relationship another 6 months and if you're still together, then maybe evaluate it. But at this stage in life, you should be focused on 1) fostering relationships (i.e., life-long friends), 2) enjoying your youth, 3) career development, and 4) personal and religious growth. Finding the right man to marry shouldn't be at the top of your list. And DON'T spend soo much time with this man that you separate yourself from your friends! Friends are forever, boys aren't.

And lastly, if you find yourself being someone you're not just to please this man, then break it off now. Be true to yourself. Good luck.

Edited June 30, 2010 by Married_and_Lonely

June 30, 2010

What she said.

So what?
The fact that he is willing to allow his children to be raised as Catholics is both open-minded and tolerant.
You'd have a far bigger problem on your hands if he had put his foot down and insisted he didn't want them baptised or raised in any religion, until they were old enough to make up their own minds.
As I would.
And by the way - I was a devout Roman Catholic, for the best part of 40 years, so I know what I'm talking about.
My two daughters are baptised as Roman Catholics.
Would that I could go back and change that!

Count yourself lucky he is so tolerant!
The person with the narrow view, is you, not he.
Why should he participate in something he does not believe in?
Why should he compromise his beliefs and opinions just to make you more content?
Why should he go against what he stands for, just to fit in with your ideas?

Oh, nice.
so not only is he a victim of your religious intolerance, he is also a victim of racial prejudice by your family.
This just gets better.
Can't you see how distasteful this is?

Then he is not for you.
If you want something really strongly, and he is not "on the same page" as you, then simply getting him to conform to your expectations will not make for an idyllic or blissful marriage.
"A man convinced against his Will, is of the same opinion, still."
He may well marry you, but if you don't think he's dedicated, then that won't change who he is.
Will it?

Is that his decision, or yours?
See how you are trying to make him inot something he is not?
Why try so hard to change someone to what you want, and how you expect him to conform?
I'm astonished you are still with him, frankly.... or he with you.

From where I'm standing, I very much doubt it.
In time, he will grow tired of your demands, and start making some of his own.
Either that, or you will grow tired of a man that is so intent on bending over backwards to do what you want, that he will end up looking up his own backside and become a doormat.
The whole point of marriage is equal compromise, and meeting in the middle. so far, he seems to have been doing all the changing.
What are you willing to change about yourself to make him happy?

End it.
Not for your sake.
For his.

June 30, 2010

The only biggotry and intolerance I see is yours, Tara. You have problems with the Roman Catholic church, that's easy to see. You're transferring them onto someone else's life in a very hateful manner.

He is not a victim nor is the OP a "victimizer".

The OP and her family have feelings, emotions, values that they hold. TheresaJ is expressing a well reasoned set of doubts as to whether there is wisdom in continuing the relationship into a marriage.

To the OP, the family prejudice is something that can be overcome. When you marry someone, you become one. If your parental family cannot accept your new spouse, that is their problem. It is external to the marriage and relationship.

The other two problems are internal to the relationship, which are lack of shared religious values and divergent values of what a marriage commitment is.

Either you two work these issues out now, or move on. Do not marry with the expectation that you can "change him". Do not abrogate the values you hold true in your own heart in an ill-conceived compromise, for the sake of marrying. Either of which are certain guarantees of failure. Compromise is the meat of a relationship, but you cannot compromise your own "truth".

This will take some careful, honest examination with of what these values truly mean to you.

So what?
The fact that he is willing to allow his children to be raised as Catholics is both open-minded and tolerant.
You'd have a far bigger problem on your hands if he had put his foot down and insisted he didn't want them baptised or raised in any religion, until they were old enough to make up their own minds.
As I would.
And by the way - I was a devout Roman Catholic, for the best part of 40 years, so I know what I'm talking about.
My two daughters are baptised as Roman Catholics.
Would that I could go back and change that!

Count yourself lucky he is so tolerant!
The person with the narrow view, is you, not he.
Why should he participate in something he does not believe in?
Why should he compromise his beliefs and opinions just to make you more content?
Why should he go against what he stands for, just to fit in with your ideas?

Oh, nice.
so not only is he a victim of your religious intolerance, he is also a victim of racial prejudice by your family.
This just gets better.
Can't you see how distasteful this is?

Then he is not for you.
If you want something really strongly, and he is not "on the same page" as you, then simply getting him to conform to your expectations will not make for an idyllic or blissful marriage.
"A man convinced against his Will, is of the same opinion, still."
He may well marry you, but if you don't think he's dedicated, then that won't change who he is.
Will it?

Is that his decision, or yours?
See how you are trying to make him inot something he is not?
Why try so hard to change someone to what you want, and how you expect him to conform?
I'm astonished you are still with him, frankly.... or he with you.

From where I'm standing, I very much doubt it.
In time, he will grow tired of your demands, and start making some of his own.
Either that, or you will grow tired of a man that is so intent on bending over backwards to do what you want, that he will end up looking up his own backside and become a doormat.
The whole point of marriage is equal compromise, and meeting in the middle. so far, he seems to have been doing all the changing.
What are you willing to change about yourself to make him happy?

End it.
Not for your sake.
For his.

July 1, 2010

The only biggotry and intolerance I see is yours, Tara. You have problems with the Roman Catholic church, that's easy to see. You're transferring them onto someone else's life in a very hateful manner.

I responded to the very first post. In it, she seemed to make it completely apparent that because he did not seem to conform to either her ideals, as a Roman catholic, or to what her family perceived to be acceptable, it was her post that came across as judgemental, bigoted and prejudicial.

I took it as read.

None of the other posts or comments existed at that point.

Forget the remaining thread, and just go back and read the very first post, in isolation, without any other commentary.

Does it sound like a post from someone who is tolerant, accepting and unbiased?

The OP and her family have feelings, emotions, values that they hold.

And I disagree with them.

Am I wrong to disagree with them?

Do they seem a healthy opinion to hold to you?

TheresaJ is expressing a well reasoned set of doubts as to whether there is wisdom in continuing the relationship into a marriage.

Sure, that's how it came across - in her second post.

The first post was a far cry from that.

To the OP, the family prejudice is something that can be overcome. When you marry someone, you become one. If your parental family cannot accept your new spouse, that is their problem. It is external to the marriage and relationship.

You in turn, have absolutely no concept of the complexity of family ties in an Asian culture.

This is more than skin-deep. Family ties in an Asian family are almost sacrosanct....

The other two problems are internal to the relationship, which are lack of shared religious values and divergent values of what a marriage commitment is.

Religious values or lack of them is a deal-breaker, in many cases. This is much harder for people to overcome than many imagine. We've had countless threads on this. It's an obstacle, I tell you.....And divergent values of what a marriage commitment is would in all cases indicate that the marriage would be nothing of the kind. you cszn't get any more divergent than that really - can you??

Either you two work these issues out now, or move on. Do not marry with the expectation that you can "change him".

She shouldn't even be in a relationship with him with the expectation that she can "Change Him"!!

Do not abrogate the values you hold true in your own heart in an ill-conceived compromise, for the sake of marrying. Either of which are certain guarantees of failure. Compromise is the meat of a relationship, but you cannot compromise your own "truth".

You don't get it, do you?

She doesn't intend to compromise anything.

She wants, or intends to get him to compromise..... as the first post suggests.....

This will take some careful, honest examination with of what these values truly mean to you.

Nope.

This will take knocking this on the head now, and finding a like-minded catholic man with similar religious, marital relationship and commitment values as she has.

It will be easier in the long-run, to find a similar-minded partner, than to try to modify, mould and change him into what she sees as an ideal....

Edited July 1, 2010 by TaraMaiden

July 1, 2010

This guy sounds like a keeper, someone who loves you and respects you. Now you can toss him away because he is not exactly like you (and your parents!) want him to be. In that case I tell you good luck in finding a guy who wants to wait for sex until you are married... Most guys don't like that and rightfully so. Sex should not be a carrot that you dangle in front of a man in order to get him to marry you. Sex is supposed to be fun and to make your bond more profound. A lot of men who waited to have sex until marriage come to the conclusion that they are not compatible sexually with their wife or that she constantly uses sex as a bargaining tool.

I think he has more reasons to dump you than you have to dump him. You sound immature. And you have the right to be immature at 24... You just cannot expect a mature guy to go along with your immature whims. You need to learn to think for yourself and to decide yourself what you want to do with your life instead of letting this be dictated by your parents and your religion.

July 1, 2010

I responded to the very first post. In it, she seemed to make it completely apparent that because he did not seem to conform to either her ideals, as a Roman catholic, or to what her family perceived to be acceptable, it was her post that came across as judgemental, bigoted and prejudicial.
I took it as read.
None of the other posts or comments existed at that point.
Forget the remaining thread, and just go back and read the very first post, in isolation, without any other commentary.
Does it sound like a post from someone who is tolerant, accepting and unbiased?

I see nothing in the OP's first post that even seemed the slightest bit intolerant, whatsoever. The first post in the thread was edited, perhaps you read a different version of it.

And I disagree with them.
Am I wrong to disagree with them?
Do they seem a healthy opinion to hold to you?

You are the one being judgemental. They are personal values, there is nothing to disagree with them and they certainly don't warrant the level of nastiness you displayed.

You in turn, have absolutely no concept of the complexity of family ties in an Asian culture.
This is more than skin-deep. Family ties in an Asian family are almost sacrosanct....

I'm just curious - how would you know whether or not that I am asian myself?

Religious values or lack of them is a deal-breaker, in many cases. This is much harder for people to overcome than many imagine. We've had countless threads on this. It's an obstacle, I tell you.....And divergent values of what a marriage commitment is would in all cases indicate that the marriage would be nothing of the kind. you cszn't get any more divergent than that really - can you??

There are a great many successful marriages between couples with different religious values. It is not impossible. What matters is what those values mean to each individual and whether there is respect for the other's beliefs and room in the relationship for them to coexist.

She shouldn't even be in a relationship with him with the expectation that she can "Change Him"!!

You don't get it, do you?
She doesn't intend to compromise anything.
She wants, or intends to get him to compromise..... as the first post suggests.....

Where in the first post do you see this? It certainly says nothing of the kind at present.

Nope.
This will take knocking this on the head now, and finding a like-minded catholic man with similar religious, marital relationship and commitment values as she has.

It will be easier in the long-run, to find a similar-minded partner, than to try to modify, mould and change him into what she sees as an ideal....

July 1, 2010

It does sound to me as if the OP has an "Ideal Husband Checklist" and is ticking off boxes to see if this guy will be suitable long term.

Not once has she mentioned if she actually loves him.

July 2, 2010

just_some_guy, you see it your way. I see it mine.

I see nothing wrong with what I've written, and my opinions are based on the way it's come across to me.

I'm not suggesting anybody else - including the OP - has to see it my way with me (although clearly, some do.....).

We differ.

It's that simple.

July 5, 2010

He seems like a really good guy. Okay, so you two are pretty different, but has those differences caused any problems in the relationship? Does it bother you that he doesn't believe what you believe? Or is it just that this relationship won't be exactly like the way you were taught relationships should be.

Also, why are you looking for a husband? You're 24 and you've been dating a guy for 6 months and all you can think about is marriage and kids. You still have time to date and enjoy your life without having to think about all this stuff. Maybe after a year he might decided that he wants to marry you. It seems like your goal is to be married with kids and no that's not his goal in life but he's not ruling out the possibility. Ultimately couples who share the same views and goals in life are more compatible. But just because you think there will be a problem doesn't mean you should end it.

I guess the real question is what are you looking for in a relationship? Are you searching for love? Or are you searching for a husband that can give you children? What's more important to you? Is this guy giving you what you want?

July 6, 2010

Tara,

Right there with you on this situation. Actually it is not possible to tell from the original post whether or not the parents objection is based on religion, race or both.

As for the no sex before marriage - that is often a recipe for disaster.

The only biggotry and intolerance I see is yours, Tara. You have problems with the Roman Catholic church, that's easy to see. You're transferring them onto someone else's life in a very hateful manner.

He is not a victim nor is the OP a "victimizer".

The OP and her family have feelings, emotions, values that they hold. TheresaJ is expressing a well reasoned set of doubts as to whether there is wisdom in continuing the relationship into a marriage.

To the OP, the family prejudice is something that can be overcome. When you marry someone, you become one. If your parental family cannot accept your new spouse, that is their problem. It is external to the marriage and relationship.

The other two problems are internal to the relationship, which are lack of shared religious values and divergent values of what a marriage commitment is.

Either you two work these issues out now, or move on. Do not marry with the expectation that you can "change him". Do not abrogate the values you hold true in your own heart in an ill-conceived compromise, for the sake of marrying. Either of which are certain guarantees of failure. Compromise is the meat of a relationship, but you cannot compromise your own "truth".

This will take some careful, honest examination with of what these values truly mean to you.

July 6, 2010

wow, so much to answer to. Am I crazy asking complete strangers, who do not know me at all, for advice?

So, firstly, I do love him but i am i right in thinking that realistically there is more to a long term relationship than love...

None, of these issues have actually cause any problems so far, my concern is that they will cause big rifts in the future, and i was hoping to get some general insight from those that are hopefully more worldy than myself. ie, from all you on this forum:)

I guess when I comes down to it, yes I am young, and I probably haven't really figured out in my head exactly what I want in my life, or what my 'deal-breakers' really are.

I know my life will not be dictated by my family/religion but they will always be influenced by them to some degree, because inherently they are a part of me and the person that I am has been moulded to some degree by my family, my culture and my religion. I just don't know how much these values really mean to me.

I know that marraige and children is something I definitely want in the end. It aches and hurts me so much to think that i might break his heart(and my own) by ending the relationship for reasons that I know have been there from the start, but that i've been too stupid and confused to know if they are deal-breakers or not.

Does this make me sound like all i want is a ring on my finger next week and little babies running around in 9 months (for the record, i don't) but I don't want to get to the point when I am too old and settle for whatever comes along (and yes, i believe having children later on in life is a lot harder). I don't want to waste either of our time if I don't think the relationship will last.

sb129-you mention a checklist, call it a checklist if you want but not everyone is suited to anyone, so i think we all keep an unsaid 'checklist' of sorts in our head. I'm sure you couldn't be in a relationship with any random person on the street, and that's because you have a 'checklist' that stops you from just being with anyone.

and yes TaraMaiden, you did come across as very critical and harse, but, heck, I did put myself out there on a forum, so I won't crticise your comments and opinions, but reading them did give me a very heavy heart and made me feel like i was such a horrid person. But you are right about one thing-asian families, it's definitely not something you can just forget about once you have your own husband/family. If you marry an asian, you marry their whole family.

My family is actually a pretty liberal, tolerant and loving family, if it comes down to it, whoever i marry will be accepted as one of the family, my mum just has to stop being so irrational about me not being with another Vietnamese.

Thank you all for your comments, I think i will just give it more time with my lovely man. He knows i have these doubts and if he's willing to stick around for now, than i'm gonna just enjoy myself and see where this goes.

July 6, 2010

#1. I understand he is being tolerant and understanding regarding religion. Effectively, what i've presented to him is that I am religious, and he respects that, he is Agnostic, and I also respect that too.

I would never force him to go to church or believe in God. I would be happy to go to church by myself and be the sole parental Catholic teaching figure, but I want to know if the accumulation of this and other problems is too much to try and continue the relationship.

#2. Yes, my family is being prejudice, but it stems from the differences in values that are important in my day to day life, like family dynamics, respect for elders, family loyalty, gender roles, etc. I know it may be prejudice but the reality is that there are differences in eastern and western culture. (yes, i will brace myself for the criticism..)

#3. I understand I probably have a very idealistic view of marriage but I know he believes in marriage and it is something he wants, I think he just doesn't want to come across as someone who is out there desperately seeking a wife.

#4. Regarding sex, I am a reasonably liberal catholic, ie, not the best catholic around and don't blindly believe in all their doctrines. I would possibly have sex with him before marriage, if that was what i was comfortable doing but because I have doubts, I don't want to have sex yet.

To be honest I'm often astonished that we're still together too, I think if he's so much more experience in relationships/life, why would he not just leave me and find someone else who is not religious, who doesn't look at sex as reverently as it do and does not have a very traditionally ethnic family. He has known from the start that I am firm on some of my beliefs and I have always given him the option to opt out.
He says it's because we're such good friends who communicate well and can talk and work our way through these differences that he feels this relationship is worth pursuing. Is he too chicken to opt out?

Don't listen to the raging lunatic up there. I think the questions you've raised are perfectly acceptable, if not wise! You are not trying to force your religion or beliefs on anyone, but it is normal and necessary to find a MATCH... not meaning that you will change this man you're with now, but that you determine if the two of you match up equally or at least enough to make a happy and stable relationship.

I think the only person who can answer these questions is you, with the aid of your partner. Maybe sit down and write a list of things that are very important to you, and ask your partner to do the same. Then compare your lists and see where you have serious conflicts.

If it's vitally important that your husband go to church with you to set an example for your children, that doesn't make you "wrong" or him wrong, it just may mean you're not compatible to be married.

It's good to discuss all this now before you get married though. Most people don't and then end up divorced!

July 6, 2010

You're not crazy asking complete strangers for advice. How do you think most of us got here in the first place? But always be prepared to be judged, because that's kinda what you're asking us to do.

I'm sure you love him to an extent but I don't think you are completely in love with him or else you wouldn't be having these doubts. And at this stage in the relationship most people won't be head over heels smitten in love anyway. When you asked if there should be more to a relationship than love, I almost said no. But then I realized there is more than love. There's companionship, trust, friendship and many other things. I personally don't have a goal in life to get married or have children nor am I religious, so trying to piece these things as parts of a relationship is hard for me. I'm willing to accept that these things mean little to a relationship to me, but to others it may be fundamental.

So let's think of the issues and if they are solvable. You want marriage and children and he doesn't really care. Well he's not against it so he can still give you that and have no problem with it. You're parents aren't too thrilled about him not being the same race as you but you've already stated that they will get over it. I think the only issue now is the religion. You aren't going to change him and that's not what you want. Either you will have to accept that he won't go to church with you or you will be angry or upset with him when he doesn't go. Only you know how you would react to this and you will have to prepare for it or end it.

I think you've made a good decision to just wait it out. You still have plenty of time and the relationship is still thriving. Besides, if it's not broken, don't fix it.

July 6, 2010

Don't listen to the raging lunatic up there.

You talking about me?

That's hilarious.

no really, it is.

Thanks, you put a smile on my face.

And I really do mean that most sincerely....

July 6, 2010

You talking about me?

That's hilarious.
no really, it is.
Thanks, you put a smile on my face.
And I really do mean that most sincerely....

Ha... noooo. I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the person who makes it sound like a crime to have religious beliefs and seek a mate with similar beliefs.

Ha... okay, I went back and looked, and yes, I suppose it was you that I was referring to. I think there's a difference between religious intolerance or hatred and just choosing to marry someone with similar religious beliefs.

July 7, 2010

Having spent 40 years in the catholic church, and now well glad to be out of it, I know how apparently subtle religious insistence like this can eventually absolutely destroy relationships.

we've had threads running before, where the religious differences between couples has caused an irreparable rift between the pair.

Sad to say, it has in every case been the 'religious' person who has either made demands upon the agnostic/atheist SO, or has ended the relationship, either because the differences could not be tolerated (at best) or because God's message about staying with non-believers was direct and clear, (at worst) and conversion being impossible, the relationship was doomed.

In every case, it has been the religious partner who found the situation unacceptable. The SO (not being adequately, sufficiently or remotely religiously-minded) was quite happy to give the religious SO as much space, freedom and unquestioned acceptance as was required.

The discomfort, uncertainty, dissatisfaction and unrest has always been on the side of the religious person.

This is why it would be far better of the OP to terminate this now, and seek a like-minded God-worshipping individual with whom to build a future.

Her partner would never ask her to cease being religious.

he would never stipulate she should be less of a church-goer, or refuse her desire to bring up the children as Catholics.

She made clear that he is laid back, tolerant and accepting.

So why can she not be the same?

Please remember, my one input with regard to responding to the OP, was after her first post.

I am not, as you seem to suppose, a 'raging lunatic'.

I am in fact, one of the least 'raging lunatics' you'd ever wish to meet.

I am speaking from previous experience of input and witness to situations and other threads.

Other members on this thread have agreed with me, so I think your comments are not only unfair, they are utterly unjustified and wide off the mark.

The bottom line is, a religious person should be completely accepting of his - or her - partner's own path, whatever that may be.

If this is something that troubles them, then it can only get worse, not better, and seeking a like-minded individual as a more suitable partner, is advisable.

Why, or where, is the raging lunacy in that?

July 7, 2010

Having spent 40 years in the catholic church, and now well glad to be out of it, I know how apparently subtle religious insistence like this can eventually absolutely destroy relationships.
we've had threads running before, where the religious differences between couples has caused an irreparable rift between the pair.
Sad to say, it has in every case been the 'religious' person who has either made demands upon the agnostic/atheist SO, or has ended the relationship, either because the differences could not be tolerated (at best) or because God's message about staying with non-believers was direct and clear, (at worst) and conversion being impossible, the relationship was doomed.

In every case, it has been the religious partner who found the situation unacceptable. The SO (not being adequately, sufficiently or remotely religiously-minded) was quite happy to give the religious SO as much space, freedom and unquestioned acceptance as was required.
The discomfort, uncertainty, dissatisfaction and unrest has always been on the side of the religious person.

This is why it would be far better of the OP to terminate this now, and seek a like-minded God-worshipping individual with whom to build a future.

Her partner would never ask her to cease being religious.
he would never stipulate she should be less of a church-goer, or refuse her desire to bring up the children as Catholics.
She made clear that he is laid back, tolerant and accepting.

So why can she not be the same?

Please remember, my one input with regard to responding to the OP, was after her first post.
I am not, as you seem to suppose, a 'raging lunatic'.
I am in fact, one of the least 'raging lunatics' you'd ever wish to meet.
I am speaking from previous experience of input and witness to situations and other threads.
Other members on this thread have agreed with me, so I think your comments are not only unfair, they are utterly unjustified and wide off the mark.

The bottom line is, a religious person should be completely accepting of his - or her - partner's own path, whatever that may be.
If this is something that troubles them, then it can only get worse, not better, and seeking a like-minded individual as a more suitable partner, is advisable.

Why, or where, is the raging lunacy in that?

The "raging lunacy" was because your first post came across as very erratic and frantic.

There is no reason that I, or the OP, as a religious person must be accepting of a person's choice to be agnostic or atheist or Buddhist or anything. It's the same as the fact that I would never date a smoker. I don't like smoking and it's unhealthy. I wouldn't date someone who had a drug addiction, and I wouldn't date someone with radically different political views than I.

I think telling someone they must accept someone's religious beliefs or non-beliefs is raging lunacy.

And trust me, I have known atheists who refuse to date a person who believes in God, too.

July 7, 2010

The "raging lunacy" was because your first post came across as very erratic and frantic.

"erraic and frantic"...?

I truly have no idea what you mean by that.

For example....?

There is no reason that I, or the OP, as a religious person must be accepting of a person's choice to be agnostic or atheist or Buddhist or anything.

There is if you want to stay with them and make a future with them as your life-partner.

It's the same as the fact that I would never date a smoker.

You're shooting yourself in the foot here.

You're making my point, aren't you?

As you have no right to change them, and they don't want to change - you don't date them...

I don't like smoking and it's unhealthy.

And she's uncomfortable with his status as an agnostic. So should she be dating him?

I wouldn't date someone who had a drug addiction, and I wouldn't date someone with radically different political views than I.

So what therefore, is your advice to the OP, if she wishes to carry on dating this man, bearing in mind his Agnostic "habit" makes her uneasy and doubtful?

I think telling someone they must accept someone's religious beliefs or non-beliefs is raging lunacy.

I didn't say that. I said that if they want to stay together, marry and raise a family, you have to compromise and be more accepting. I didn't say she HAD to accept it - but if she wants to make a go of this, be he a smoker, a drug addict or an agnostic - she should think very, very carefully about whether this is the right thing to do. And if she can't - then she should stop this now.

Which is exactly what you're saying......

And trust me, I have known atheists who refuse to date a person who believes in God, too.

Oh sure, me too.

But that's not the discussion here.

I don't know why you've brought up this "refusal to date" issue.

It's not the issue here.

nobody here is'refusing to date' anybody.

What is actually being said is that Religious difference makes it very difficult to date a person, if there is no compromise and acceptance right from the word go.

In order to make a relationship work, a couple has to work together to accept the differences, let them be, and live as a unit, in spite of it all.

Th OP has already stated this gives her cause for concern.

you seem a little confused about this, in your arguments about whom you would/wouldn't date.

I don't see that you are, or how you are, actually helping the OP's argument at all.....

July 7, 2010

I don't know why you've brought up this "refusal to date" issue.
It's not the issue here.
nobody here is'refusing to date' anybody.
What is actually being said is that Religious difference makes it very difficult to date a person, if there is no compromise and acceptance right from the word go.

Clearly there was a misinterpretation. When I read your original reply to the OP, I inferred from it that you were saying people don't have a right to not date someone b/c of their religious non-beliefs. I understood you to be saying that a Christian should be accepting of an atheist's disbelief in God, and if the Christian wasn't accepting of that, that s/he was doing something wrong or being closed-minded.

I'm in complete agreement that people can believe whatever they want, and if values are misaligned that are of extreme importance, that you shouldn't date that person.

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