Assertive VS Passive Aggressive

[EricaH329]

I know this is probably not a great time to start a thread, considering i'm pretty pissed off at the moment. But I need to get this out.

 

My biggest pet peeve is someone who contradicts themselves. Personally, I hate it when people are passive aggressive. Really gets under my skin. Therefore, I do my best to remain assertive. I tell people exactly how I feel (within reason).

 

My biggest issue at the moment, is how people will tell me that they, also, dislike people who are passive aggressive, and yet become extremely defensive the minute I become assertive.

 

Give me a break!!! I'm an honest person, I won't lie to you and if you are doing something that's out of line (again, within reason), i'll let you know. But then they become extremely butt hurt over it and refuse to admit that they are contradicting themselves.

 

I'm not out to please other people. I'm doing the best I can to become the person that I ultimately want to be. I'm not a mean person, and I don't intentionally bring people down. I don't understand why people can't handle the truth, but would rather be lied to and have people in their lives that are passive aggressive.

 

 

/rant

[D-Lish]

Most people can't handle direct confrontation. I'm used to that now. I have one boss that is PA, and the other that is direct. I appreciate the direct boss because ultimately everything she has to say is helpful and I get proper direction from her (even though she yells...ALOT:()

 

I respect direct. I think PA is a sign of extreme weakness. PA drives me crazy too Erica.

 

There are times when a situation might call for diplomacy sure, but you can be direct while using a diplomatic approach.

Edited June 29, 2010 by D-Lish

[EricaH329]

Most people can't handle direct confrontation. I'm used to that now. I have one boss that is PA, and the other that is direct. I appreciate the direct boss because ultimately everything she has to say is helpful and I get proper direction from her (even though she yells...ALOT:()

 

I respect direct. I think PA is a sign of extreme weakness. PA drives me crazy too Erica.

 

There are times when a situation might call for diplomacy sure, but you can be direct while using a diplomatic approach.

 

I completely agree with you!! My boss is passive aggressive, also (which drives me crazy!). But since there isn't anything I can do about it, I deal with it. However, when there are people close to me (like my best friend, or someone i'm dating) that begins acting in a passive aggressive way, I tend to point it out to them. Then they get upset and angry with me.

 

I consider myself to be a pretty sympathetic person. I'm very in touch with my feelings, and I can empathize with others. But there comes a point in time where being 'too nice' is not appropriate. Assertiveness is a very respectable quality in most, and when a person cannot handle being told the truth... makes me wonder whether or not they really hate people who are PA, or if they are just saying that to cop out of taking a hard look at themselves.

[D-Lish]

I'd say it's about not wanting to take a hard look within. Most people can't/won't do that.

 

I have to admit that when people are direct with me, I sometimes get angry at first, then walk away and think on it. I often find myself going back and saying "okay, I hear what you've said"...

 

Did something specific happen that has you upset E?

[2sunny]

are you sure you are defining passive aggressive in its' proper manner?

 

generally it's termed as a person who doesn't show they are mad at the person or situation they are angry at/about - then take it out behind their back or in a different way/situation.

 

defined as:

 

Passive-aggressive personality disorder is a long-term (chronic) condition in which a person seems to actively comply with the desires and needs of others, but actually passively resists them. In the process, the person becomes increasingly hostile and angry.

 

or as:

 

Symptoms

 

People with this disorder resent responsibility and show it through their behaviors, rather than by openly expressing their feelings. They often use procrastination, inefficiency, and forgetfulness to avoid doing what they need to do or have been told by others to do.

 

Some common symptoms of passive-aggressive personality disorder include:

 

Acting sullen

Avoiding responsibility by claiming forgetfulness

Being inefficient on purpose

Blaming others

Complaining

Feeling resentment

Having a fear of authority

Having unexpressed anger or hostility

Procrastinating

Resisting other people's suggestions

A person with this disorder may appear to comply with another's wishes and may even demonstrate enthusiasm for those wishes. However, they:

 

Perform the requested action too late to be helpful

Perform it in a way that is useless

Sabotage the action to show anger that they cannot express in words

 

 

does that fit your situation?

[EricaH329]

I'd say it's about not wanting to take a hard look within. Most people can't/won't do that.

 

I have to admit that when people are direct with me, I sometimes get angry at first, then walk away and think on it. I often find myself going back and saying "okay, I hear what you've said"...

 

Did something specific happen that has you upset E?

 

I can relate to that. When someone tells me something I don't want to hear, I become defensive at first, but I will continue to talk to them until I understand where they are coming from. I most certainly don't become PA and walk away from it and hold hard feelings against them. That's nonsense to me (not implying that's what you do, you know I love you , just saying from my own personal experience).

 

As for what happened to make me start this thread, this guy i've been seeing is seriously pissing me off. He constantly contradicts himself (which I have yet to point out to him, i'm picking my battles), and when he says something that I disagree with and I point it out to him, he becomes super defensive and starts telling me that i'm too assertive. I don't act as though any situation he is in is 'beneath' me or him, I just tell him what I would do if I were in his situation.

 

He tells me that he dislikes PA people, and yet he (obviously) dislikes people who are direct with him also. Makes no sense!!!

[that girl]

I think a decent amount of how people react has to do with how you approach things. If you're super angry and they don't know where it came from, odds are they will get defensive. But a lot of times if you start off assuming they didn't do it on purpose and are upfront with what you need, things will work out. (I'm assuming it is something like not calling when they say they will not sleeping with your sister).

 

That said, some people are just totally unwilling to admit when they are wrong no matter how well you approach things.

[2sunny]

I can relate to that. When someone tells me something I don't want to hear, I become defensive at first, but I will continue to talk to them until I understand where they are coming from. I most certainly don't become PA and walk away from it and hold hard feelings against them. That's nonsense to me (not implying that's what you do, you know I love you , just saying from my own personal experience).

 

As for what happened to make me start this thread, this guy i've been seeing is seriously pissing me off. He constantly contradicts himself (which I have yet to point out to him, i'm picking my battles), and when he says something that I disagree with and I point it out to him, he becomes super defensive and starts telling me that i'm too assertive. I don't act as though any situation he is in is 'beneath' me or him, I just tell him what I would do if I were in his situation.

 

He tells me that he dislikes PA people, and yet he (obviously) dislikes people who are direct with him also. Makes no sense!!!

 

i don't think you are referring to PA behavior - i just think you two are mismatched.

 

also seems if he is constantly contradicting himself - he may just tend to be lying about things he may not intend for you to understand about him. hence - the mismatch...

[D-Lish]

I can relate to that. When someone tells me something I don't want to hear, I become defensive at first, but I will continue to talk to them until I understand where they are coming from. I most certainly don't become PA and walk away from it and hold hard feelings against them. That's nonsense to me (not implying that's what you do, you know I love you , just saying from my own personal experience).

 

As for what happened to make me start this thread, this guy i've been seeing is seriously pissing me off. He constantly contradicts himself (which I have yet to point out to him, i'm picking my battles), and when he says something that I disagree with and I point it out to him, he becomes super defensive and starts telling me that i'm too assertive. I don't act as though any situation he is in is 'beneath' me or him, I just tell him what I would do if I were in his situation.

 

He tells me that he dislikes PA people, and yet he (obviously) dislikes people who are direct with him also. Makes no sense!!!

 

No, it's cool- I do walk away angry at first! It's hard to hear other people pointing out your flaws! I think that's just human nature. When I am mad, I walk away at first so I don't say anything I'll regret out of anger. I'll always come back with a clearer head.

 

The people that get it will always come back with a more open attitude. Those are the people worthy of keeping in your circle.

 

If it's your boss, you sort of have to let it go, but if it's a bf- you have more room for choice about whether or not he's the right for you.

 

Relationships are hard work. It's quite possible you are saying things that strike a chord, and that's difficult for him. Always pay attention to how he handles it. If he comes back wanting to discuss further, with an open mind, he's a keeper. If he keeps walking away and never wants to face things, it's not likely he'll ever be flexible.

[D-Lish]

i don't think you are referring to PA behavior - i just think you two are mismatched.

 

also seems if he is constantly contradicting himself - he may just tend to be lying about things he may not intend for you to understand about him. hence - the mismatch...

 

Could just be because they are "new", and still in the figuring things out stage.

[2sunny]

Could just be because they are "new", and still in the figuring things out stage.

 

usually that "new" stage is when things are generally amazingly great. you know, when two people are putting their best out there for the one they're dating. so it makes me think it couldn't be this. seems too mismatched to be fun.

[EricaH329]

To be honest, there aren't many people that I know who can handle an assertive personality like mine. I'm not too sure why, i'm not a mean person. I just don't like sugar coating things. I can most certainly empathize with people, and I do quite frequently, but when a person says something that upsets me (or I disagree with) I don't hesitate to to let them know how I feel.

 

But what's get to me, is that it seems like most of the time people don't want me to say these things, they just want me to keep my mouth shut and would rather I take the more PA approach. That's just not me. And it bothers me when people claim to dislike others who can't speak their mind, and yet vehemently contradict that statement when a person is assertive.

[pantherj]

Here is a pattern some of you may have experienced:

 

female: "I noticed something I don't like about the way you live your life."

 

male: "Well yeah mabey it's not the best way."

 

female: "Oh good so we agree?"

 

male: "Yeah."

 

female: "Great! So here's how you should change. _______. That's how I would do it. Ok?"

 

male: "Yep. I think you're right."

 

female: "You're great. I love you."

 

Time passes. The change doesn't occur.

 

female: "I thought you said you were going to change this part of your life?"

 

male: "Yeah well I thought about it..."

 

female: "And? C'mon! Speak up!

 

male: "Why are you getting an attitude? Your being too aggressive."

 

female: "I can't believe you won't change when you know I'm right. You even agreed! OMG PASSIVE AGGREESIVE!"

 

The guy sneaks off with his tail between his legs, and avoids the situation. The girl storms off, brooding about her bfs passive aggressive refusal to change. The problem is not the bf is passive aggressive, and I'll prove it. Let's assume the guy is not passive aggressive.

 

female: "I noticed something I don't like about the way you live your life."

 

male: "Well yeah mabey it's not the best way, but it's my way."

 

female: "I think you should change."

 

male: "I'm not changing that part of my life. If you can't accept that, then we should break up."

 

female: "I'm right about this! RANT RANT! CHANGE!"

 

male: "No."

 

Woman goes off and tells everyone and her grandmother about how the guy should change. Guy goes about his daily routine.

 

woman: "So you don't love me enough to change?"

 

male: "I love you. I'm not changing."

 

They either break up, or stay together. But the problem is the same, the guy's refusal to change, not how he refused to change.

[2sunny]

To be honest, there aren't many people that I know who can handle an assertive personality like mine. I'm not too sure why, i'm not a mean person. I just don't like sugar coating things. I can most certainly empathize with people, and I do quite frequently, but when a person says something that upsets me (or I disagree with) I don't hesitate to to let them know how I feel.

 

But what's get to me, is that it seems like most of the time people don't want me to say these things, they just want me to keep my mouth shut and would rather I take the more PA approach. That's just not me. And it bothers me when people claim to dislike others who can't speak their mind, and yet vehemently contradict that statement when a person is assertive.

 

just because we notice something about a situation or someone - doesn't necessarily mean they want to hear our opinion or perspective. ask permission to give your viewpoint or experience - this allows the person to agree to hear what you may want to say - or not.

 

also - just because they listen doesn't mean they need to do anything about how you feel about a situation. big difference between agreeing to listen or be heard - and actually taking action on what one hears you say.

 

to expect others to do something about it all is not always realistic... some folks just like to hear themselves complain without the intention to change anything.

[2sunny]

To be honest, there aren't many people that I know who can handle an assertive personality like mine. I'm not too sure why, i'm not a mean person. I just don't like sugar coating things. I can most certainly empathize with people, and I do quite frequently, but when a person says something that upsets me (or I disagree with) I don't hesitate to to let them know how I feel.

 

But what's get to me, is that it seems like most of the time people don't want me to say these things, they just want me to keep my mouth shut and would rather I take the more PA approach. That's just not me. And it bothers me when people claim to dislike others who can't speak their mind, and yet vehemently contradict that statement when a person is assertive.

 

you may also be mixing up assertive with aggressive. i can't tell mainly because i don't know you - but just a point for you to consider.

[EricaH329]

Here is a pattern some of you may have experienced:

 

female: "I noticed something I don't like about the way you live your life."

 

male: "Well yeah mabey it's not the best way."

 

female: "Oh good so we agree?"

 

male: "Yeah."

 

female: "Great! So here's how you should change. _______. That's how I would do it. Ok?"

 

male: "Yep. I think you're right."

 

female: "You're great. I love you."

 

Time passes. The change doesn't occur.

 

female: "I thought you said you were going to change this part of your life?"

 

male: "Yeah well I thought about it..."

 

female: "And? C'mon! Speak up!

 

male: "Why are you getting an attitude? Your being too aggressive."

 

female: "I can't believe you won't change when you know I'm right. You even agreed! OMG PASSIVE AGGREESIVE!"

 

The guy sneaks off with his tail between his legs, and avoids the situation. The girl storms off, brooding about her bfs passive aggressive refusal to change. The problem is not the bf is passive aggressive, and I'll prove it. Let's assume the guy is not passive aggressive.

 

female: "I noticed something I don't like about the way you live your life."

 

male: "Well yeah mabey it's not the best way, but it's my way."

 

female: "I think you should change."

 

male: "I'm not changing that part of my life. If you can't accept that, then we should break up."

 

female: "I'm right about this! RANT RANT! CHANGE!"

 

male: "No."

 

Woman goes off and tells everyone and her grandmother about how the guy should change. Guy goes about his daily routine.

 

woman: "So you don't love me enough to change?"

 

male: "I love you. I'm not changing."

 

They either break up, or stay together. But the problem is the same, the guy's refusal to change, not how he refused to change.

 

Wow, you've completely misunderstood my point. That's not how I am at all. I don't expect anyone to change, and even if this was just an example, I most certainly do not expect things from people.

 

The situations i've found myself in (just an example) are more like this:

 

Male: I've given this person advice. This is what the advice is: (input advice here). What do you think?

 

Me: I think you have the right idea. Personally, I would have given this advice: (input advice here).

 

Male: What?! No way. You just don't understand.

 

Me: Why are you becoming so defensive? I'm just letting you know my point of view. I apologize if it's not something you wanted to hear, or if I misunderstood the situation.

 

Male: Well, i'm a different person. I think differently. So my advice is just fine the way that it is.

 

Me: (Left completely shocked, and feeling pretty stupid for believing that the other person wanted my honest opinion, as opposed to what they just wanted to hear).

 

Also, on a more PA note, most people assume that i'm going to keep my opinion to myself (even after being asked for it). They would much rather my opinion (if it's different from theirs) be kept to myself. I don't play that game. I'm sorry if you can't handle my honesty. I'm always very up front with a person from the beginning, and let them know that i'm an honest person and if they can't handle that sort of thing then forming a relationship with me might not be a good idea. They all agree that honesty is the best way to go about it, and they hate it when people don't voice their opinion and yet seem to hold a resentment for doing so.

 

Puh-lease!

[gypsy_nicky]

so thats the only case this happens?- when you disagree with something he said he goes into passive aggressive mode?

Edited June 29, 2010 by gypsy_nicky

[2sunny]

Wow, you've completely misunderstood my point. That's not how I am at all. I don't expect anyone to change, and even if this was just an example, I most certainly do not expect things from people.

 

The situations i've found myself in (just an example) are more like this:

 

Male: I've given this person advice. This is what the advice is: (input advice here). What do you think?

 

Me: I think you have the right idea. Personally, I would have given this advice: (input advice here).

 

Male: What?! No way. You just don't understand.

 

Me: Why are you becoming so defensive? I'm just letting you know my point of view. I apologize if it's not something you wanted to hear, or if I misunderstood the situation.

 

Male: Well, i'm a different person. I think differently. So my advice is just fine the way that it is.

 

Me: (Left completely shocked, and feeling pretty stupid for believing that the other person wanted my honest opinion, as opposed to what they just wanted to hear).

 

Also, on a more PA note, most people assume that i'm going to keep my opinion to myself (even after being asked for it). They would much rather my opinion (if it's different from theirs) be kept to myself. I don't play that game. I'm sorry if you can't handle my honesty. I'm always very up front with a person from the beginning, and let them know that i'm an honest person and if they can't handle that sort of thing then forming a relationship with me might not be a good idea. They all agree that honesty is the best way to go about it, and they hate it when people don't voice their opinion and yet seem to hold a resentment for doing so.

 

Puh-lease!

 

i think your approach and mindset are more aggressive than assertive - given this example.

 

an assertive person would state their personal opinion - leaving room for the other to form their own perspective or opinion which best suits "them" and let it go the best way for that person's conclusion without expecting the other person to have the need to agree or take the advice given and change.

 

for example - my truth is based upon my experience and perspective - that is mine. a lot of my assigned meaning comes into consideration.

 

what i may relay to others is only MY truth. (based on the above)

 

for me to expect that others would or might have my truth as their own isn't reasonable (that is mine only). if they want to hear it they can ask me for my truth or i can ask if they want to hear what my input may be. i should never offer without their permission. if they choose not to act upon what i say based upon MY truth - it doesn't matter to me at all. i only shared my experience and perspective with them - theirs is and usually will be completely different than what mine is.

 

that is what ultimately makes all of us the individuals that we are.

Edited June 29, 2010 by 2sunny

[pantherj]

Wow, you've completely misunderstood my point. That's not how I am at all. I don't expect anyone to change, and even if this was just an example, I most certainly do not expect things from people.

 

The situations i've found myself in (just an example) are more like this:

 

Male: I've given this person advice. This is what the advice is: (input advice here). What do you think?

 

Me: I think you have the right idea. Personally, I would have given this advice: (input advice here).

 

Male: What?! No way. You just don't understand.

 

Me: Why are you becoming so defensive? I'm just letting you know my point of view. I apologize if it's not something you wanted to hear, or if I misunderstood the situation.

 

Male: Well, i'm a different person. I think differently. So my advice is just fine the way that it is.

 

Me: (Left completely shocked, and feeling pretty stupid for believing that the other person wanted my honest opinion, as opposed to what they just wanted to hear).

 

Also, on a more PA note, most people assume that i'm going to keep my opinion to myself (even after being asked for it). They would much rather my opinion (if it's different from theirs) be kept to myself. I don't play that game. I'm sorry if you can't handle my honesty. I'm always very up front with a person from the beginning, and let them know that i'm an honest person and if they can't handle that sort of thing then forming a relationship with me might not be a good idea. They all agree that honesty is the best way to go about it, and they hate it when people don't voice their opinion and yet seem to hold a resentment for doing so.

 

Puh-lease!

 

Huh? I wasn't commenting on any point you tried to make.

[A O]

But then they become extremely butt hurt over it and refuse to admit that they are contradicting themselves.

Do you want to be assertive or do you want to be right! One is good, we rarely need the other.

 

an assertive person would state their personal opinion - leaving room for the other to form their own perspective or opinion which best suits "them" and let it go the best way for that person's conclusion without expecting the other person to have the need to agree or take the advice given and change.

Bang on the money. Contradiction, bit of a laugh that one.

.

[gypsy_nicky]

Wow, you've completely misunderstood my point. That's not how I am at all. I don't expect anyone to change, and even if this was just an example, I most certainly do not expect things from people.

 

The situations i've found myself in (just an example) are more like this:

 

Male: I've given this person advice. This is what the advice is: (input advice here). What do you think?

 

Me: I think you have the right idea. Personally, I would have given this advice: (input advice here).

 

Male: What?! No way. You just don't understand.

 

Me: Why are you becoming so defensive? I'm just letting you know my point of view. I apologize if it's not something you wanted to hear, or if I misunderstood the situation.

 

Male: Well, i'm a different person. I think differently. So my advice is just fine the way that it is.

 

Me: (Left completely shocked, and feeling pretty stupid for believing that the other person wanted my honest opinion, as opposed to what they just wanted to hear).

 

Also, on a more PA note, most people assume that i'm going to keep my opinion to myself (even after being asked for it). They would much rather my opinion (if it's different from theirs) be kept to myself. I don't play that game. I'm sorry if you can't handle my honesty. I'm always very up front with a person from the beginning, and let them know that i'm an honest person and if they can't handle that sort of thing then forming a relationship with me might not be a good idea. They all agree that honesty is the best way to go about it, and they hate it when people don't voice their opinion and yet seem to hold a resentment for doing so.

 

Puh-lease!

 

There are red flags going up in my radar from this post. First off, he asks loaded/rhetoric questions. It looks like he's controlling. It's even more effective if its passive aggression (which most controllers use).

[gypsy_nicky]

i think your approach and mindset are more aggressive than assertive - given this example.

 

an assertive person would state their personal opinion - leaving room for the other to form their own perspective or opinion which best suits "them" and let it go the best way for that person's conclusion without expecting the other person to have the need to agree or take the advice given and change.

 

for example - my truth is based upon my experience and perspective - that is mine. a lot of my assigned meaning comes into consideration.

 

what i may relay to others is only MY truth. (based on the above)

 

for me to expect that others would or might have my truth as their own isn't reasonable (that is mine only). if they want to hear it they can ask me for my truth or i can ask if they want to hear what my input may be. i should never offer without their permission. if they choose not to act upon what i say based upon MY truth - it doesn't matter to me at all. i only shared my experience and perspective with them - theirs is and usually will be completely different than what mine is.

 

that is what ultimately makes all of us the individuals that we are.

 

I don't think so. I think you should be telling this to the guy she's dating.

[pantherj]

Without knowing more information, the guy just seems to be rude and a bit of a tool. My hats off to girls who try to date guys like that. Best of luck .

[threebyfate]

Erica, I read that scenario you provided and he's not acting passive aggressive. He was looking for validation much like most who post threads on LS so when he didn't get it from you, rather received what he perceived as criticism, he reacted like most on LS, defensively.

 

But one thing's for certain. The minute you say the phrase "why are you getting so defensive" it will automatically instigate a battle, bar none.

[Diezel]

Yeah Erica, never tell someone that they are getting defensive... it's pretty much a green light to becoming defensive.

 

But I guess maybe now you are finding out why the sex with this guy is so good.

 

My question for everyone else is, if Erica hadn't said that the guy was passive aggressive, based on the interaction she provided, would you THINK he was?

I'm just saying, because it seems like a few people here are seeing the end result without looking at the clues.

 

 

Now, Erica, if you REALLY did lead in with "You have the right idea", that statement alone was meant to disarm any incoming hostility from him, basically a way for him to see that you ARE commending him for his advice but that you'd like to add onto that.

 

Sometimes people WILL ask for our advice, but in reality, they want to hear certain things. It's easier on the forum because it's people we don't see or hear but when it's a person we are dating, it's a whole new can of worms.