cdubs32 Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 So earlier this week I created a thread about a guy I met online, went to dinner/drinks with and how he asked if I wanted to contribute to the bill. After friends and family telling me this was a bad sign that he didn't treat and mixed responses here, I decided I still wanted to try a second date. So he took control on the second date and came up with the idea that we should go to a baseball game. So he bought the tickets and is telling me about the seats over IM and proceeds to tell me that they were pretty expensive. I start to feel bad and ask him if he would like any money for them. I'm sure some of you will say this was a stupid move on my part, but I guess that was just my manners kicking in. So when I offer he says "I could be generous and say you don't owe me a thing, but something tells me you wouldn't want it to be that way." So I say it's up to him and he says he'll cover the tickets. So now I'm curious and ask him what makes him think I wouldn't want him to pay for the tickets. He says that I seem like a girl who has worked hard for what I have gotten in life and seeing that it's only our second date he thought I would want to at least pay for my ticket. But that he's trying to be a nice and romantic guy by doing this. Now I just feel even weirder than I did before. Why is he telling me all of this? I certainly don't think I give off a vibe that says I never want to be treated to a dinner hahaha. Is this weird or is it just me? I haven't ready any other posts but this one: You have to keep in mind that just because he assumes something or make a pre-judgement about you, doesn't necessarily mean it's something you did or something about YOU that makes him think/act this way. You have to remember that all we have to go on is past experiences. I'd say there's a good chance that he's gone out with women before who WANTED to pay and were very forward about it, and maybe even one girl was offended that he offered to pay for everything without giving her the option. Now I'm a guy who is traditional and I always offer to pay, but I also put up a fight when the girl offers to pay some if it. But I do give in if they insist. This guy has just had some previous experiences that were different and he doesn't know what to do in these situations, so he's going on what he knows from the past. Give him some slack in this department. If he's a great guy that can make you happy, then keep seeing him. Please do not become one of those women who will walk away simply because of this scenario. You will find yourself bitter and alone like all the other 35-45 year old crazy btchy women.
Shakz Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 I haven't ready any other posts but this one: You have to keep in mind that just because he assumes something or make a pre-judgement about you, doesn't necessarily mean it's something you did or something about YOU that makes him think/act this way. You have to remember that all we have to go on is past experiences. I'd say there's a good chance that he's gone out with women before who WANTED to pay and were very forward about it, and maybe even one girl was offended that he offered to pay for everything without giving her the option. Now I'm a guy who is traditional and I always offer to pay, but I also put up a fight when the girl offers to pay some if it. But I do give in if they insist. This guy has just had some previous experiences that were different and he doesn't know what to do in these situations, so he's going on what he knows from the past. Give him some slack in this department. If he's a great guy that can make you happy, then keep seeing him. Please do not become one of those women who will walk away simply because of this scenario. You will find yourself bitter and alone like all the other 35-45 year old crazy btchy women. Why would you write such a fair-minded and well-considered post only to sabotage your efforts with this last sentence?
cdubs32 Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 I'm actually not that sweet, I just think my manners get in the way. Sometimes I think I need to be b*itchier or more demanding at the beginning of relationships. Please don't. Stay sweet, there's not enough of you in the world. I wish I knew more sweeter women, but there just aren't that many of them around my age left in Chicago. He's going to say yes, but perhaps he's been on dates with women who got offended by it, or made themselves pay. Sounds to me like he's a little awkward, and mentioning how expensive they were was a bad move. However everything they're saying is a bit overboard and nutty if you ask me. Exactly. I don't think he's a mean guy and the comment about the cost didn't really seem too whiny. More than anything, this is all just coming off as really awkward to me. Dating is awkward by definition. OK that's the second person who told me "have fun." LOL I'm not marrying the guy and clearly I'm doubting the second date. Just putting my feelers out here. So he just texted me saying he's sorry if he upset me and if I want to pay for my own ticket, I can. He just thought it would be a nice gesture. This guy is reading me all wrong. I don't even know what to write back. There you go, he's not being a cheapskate (well, maybe he is, too early to tell) but I'd say there's a decent chance he's just not reading you. In all honesty try to change the subject and not talk about the cost. If he still brings it up then he's a cheapskate, but maybe he's just new to this and is reading you wrong. You've only been out once, give him a chance to get to know you better. Ok. Little lesson for next time. He says: Guy: Tickets were a little expensive Girl: Awww, you're so sweet. Thank you again, I can't wait to go. kill him with kindness. Make him feel appreciated and like he's taking you on the best dates. MONEY cannot give him that feeling. You can. Yep, this will work very well. Maybe he doesn't want you to pay, maybe he just wants some appreciation. Maybe he's not a rich guy and he just wants you to realize he's taking a lot out of his pocket to take you out, which means he has interest in you. Guys don't spend lots of money on girls they aren't that into unless they're rich.
Lipsy10 Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 He sounds really manipulative and you sound sweet. He chose to make the second date expensive and then tried to manipulate you into paying for part of the tickets. Like "prove to me you aren't a gold digger." When in reality, he just wanted to go to the game. 100% agree! I think this is a case of he's just not that into you. If a guy really likes you then he wont mind buying you dinner, also mentioning the price of the tickets was sooo classless. Why are you wasting your time with this guy, you haven't even had a second date yet and your already having problems. Even if this money issue is all a big misunderstanding you really shouldn't be having these probs so early on. Something just doesn't gel with you 2. Move on.
cdubs32 Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 Why would you write such a fair-minded and well-considered post only to sabotage your efforts with this last sentence? Look around, how many women who are actively dating in this age group AREN'T how I described? Why are men in this age group going after 25 year old women on online dating sites if there's so many great women of their own age and maturity level?...because it's sad to say: there aren't many It's really sad, and I'm already running into these types of women at my age level (late 20's). Women have been treated poorly by previous guys, they assume they're all dicks, they have high standards in place that normal decent men can't live up to because the women are protecting themselves to try and avoid the "*******" that's been torturing them emotionally the last 10 years of their dating life. It's really sad, but doesn't mean it's not true. I've done a lot of dating, I see this everywhere. That's why the OP should stay sweet and undamaged, it'll make her more desireable by decent men.
SarahRose Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 The guy is a total douche. How unappealing and unromantic. I am not seeing where the date part is. You might as well be going with a girlfriend if he is never going to treat you. I think you are setting yourself up to be taken advantage of by this guy. Why would you offer to pay again? Do you not feel deserving of a man treating you? He must be really good looking?
sally4sara Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 He says that I seem like a girl who has worked hard for what I have gotten in life and seeing that it's only our second date he thought I would want to at least pay for my ticket. But that he's trying to be a nice and romantic guy by doing this. Now I just feel even weirder than I did before. Why is he telling me all of this? I certainly don't think I give off a vibe that says I never want to be treated to a dinner hahaha. Is this weird or is it just me? You feel weird maybe because you were paid a really excellent compliment, while lacking the perspective to see it was a compliment?
xpaperxcutx Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 Oh I've done that. It may not have been on purpose. I invited a woman to dinner and when the bill came discovered I left my wallet at home. I was mortified. I had to call my brother to come down and bring my wallet and it took forever. She kept saying let's go and I kept trying to come up with a reason to stay. Finally he shows up and, like a moron, just hands me the wallet right in front of her! To my relief she thought it was pretty funny that I would go to such lengths, but it would have been much worse to ask her to pay. So you're going to justify a guy that stuck me a $200 tab? Geez. Come on this guy only brough $50 with him at that time and he was downing 10 -12 shots of vodka. I hardly drank. I asked him if he had money to pay for it, and he said not to worry. Well, let's just say this guy is a loser.
Shakz Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 Look around, how many women who are actively dating in this age group AREN'T how I described? Why are men in this age group going after 25 year old women on online dating sites if there's so many great women of their own age and maturity level?...because it's sad to say: there aren't many It's really sad, and I'm already running into these types of women at my age level (late 20's). Women have been treated poorly by previous guys, they assume they're all dicks, they have high standards in place that normal decent men can't live up to because the women are protecting themselves to try and avoid the "*******" that's been torturing them emotionally the last 10 years of their dating life. It's really sad, but doesn't mean it's not true. I've done a lot of dating, I see this everywhere. That's why the OP should stay sweet and undamaged, it'll make her more desireable by decent men. Well, I'm 48 and find women in this age group to have their share of emotional baggage but no more so than younger women. It's just a different set of luggage. I think we just have such different perspectives. I like to think that people make mistakes in life, and grow from them. Most of the datable women in my age group have been divorced, have kids, or have been through the wringer dating-wise. These things change people, but not always for the worse. I don't go into a date with a 45-year-old woma with the preconception that she's a bitch anymore than I would go into a date with a 25-year-old woman thinking I'm going to go deaf in a nightclub listening to Lady Gaga howl all night.
cdubs32 Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 Well, I'm 48 and find women in this age group to have their share of emotional baggage but no more so than younger women. It's just a different set of luggage. I think we just have such different perspectives. I like to think that people make mistakes in life, and grow from them. Most of the datable women in my age group have been divorced, have kids, or have been through the wringer dating-wise. These things change people, but not always for the worse. I don't go into a date with a 45-year-old woma with the preconception that she's a bitch anymore than I would go into a date with a 25-year-old woman thinking I'm going to go deaf in a nightclub listening to Lady Gaga howl all night. I can agree to that. Most women I know in the more middle-aged group and are dating are like how I described, but I also know they've been through a lot. I also do agree with the 25 year olds, and they're expectations are a little out of this world in terms of looks/money with some men. I've just been on so many dates with women who I think still believe brad pitt will sweep them off their feet someday, and they'll be looking for guys like me when they're 35, but I won't want anything to do with them at that point. Maybe that's just how I feel today and it will change over time, but yeah, I'm burnt out on dating and I'm not going to do it again for a very long time. Part of me has come to the realization that some people just weren't mean to be in relationships or get married, and it's very possible I'm one of them. But I don't let it get me down because there's so many other fulfilling things to pursue in this life that can actually pay off with effort and work and gain a sense of achievement with. Dating is just not something you can work at to pay off, it'll only do the opposite and make you feel worse.
VertexSquared Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 So you're going to justify a guy that stuck me a $200 tab? Geez. Come on this guy only brough $50 with him at that time and he was downing 10 -12 shots of vodka. I hardly drank. I asked him if he had money to pay for it, and he said not to worry. Well, let's just say this guy is a loser. He isn't justifying that at all! He just said that at one point he went to dinner without the money required to pay for the date, but he went to great lengths to get his wallet back to pay for the dinner.
Shakz Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 So you're going to justify a guy that stuck me a $200 tab? Geez. Come on this guy only brough $50 with him at that time and he was downing 10 -12 shots of vodka. I hardly drank. I asked him if he had money to pay for it, and he said not to worry. Well, let's just say this guy is a loser. Well, I'm not trying to justify anything other than to say that sometimes a guy forgets his wallet and doesn't always have an out. But in this scenario, I think you would have been justified to walk out on him after shot number three or four. Who drinks that much but an alcoholic?
TaurusTerp Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 Why would you write such a fair-minded and well-considered post only to sabotage your efforts with this last sentence? He's right, though the wording is a little tactless. The vast majority of the women that replied in this thread stuck him on auto-reject, without even knowing the rest of their interactions. Does he make her laugh? Is there great physical and emotional chemistry? These women are 86'ing this guy already for this one flaw which could very well be a misunderstanding. Perhaps some of them will find a perfect match....but the more likely scenario is that they end up settling or never finding their prince charming.
VertexSquared Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 The problem is that there's no real reason for this guy to be bringing up how expensive the tickets are. That sort of action in itself is a pretty strong indicator of a variety of other specific flaws with high probability.
WalkInThePark Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 So he bought the tickets and is telling me about the seats over IM and proceeds to tell me that they were pretty expensive. This is wrong. He invites you to the game and tells you the tickets are expensive, SO wrong. It's like inviting you to dinner and telling you beforehand that the restaurant is really expensive. I understand that you feel bad, I would also feel bad but the thing is: he makes you feel bad. He is not generous and that is a big flaw in my book. A confident guy who wants to make his date happy, invites her and shuts up about the price of the tickets.
Author IceIceBaby Posted June 28, 2010 Author Posted June 28, 2010 I agree that I probably should not have offered to chip in for the tickets. This date was all his planning. I agreed to go to the game, but he never ran anything by me...like ticket prices. He just bought them hours after I agreed to go. They are very good seats to a Yankees game if that gives you an idea of how expensive they might be. But he could have gotten cheap bleacher seats and I would have been fine with that. But he went and sprung for the good seats, so I feel like he should swing the cash for them. But again, I think my manners got the best of me. And to whoever asked if I don't feel worthy of a man treating me to dinner...sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. None of my past long term boyfriends ever treated me. It's not something I'm used to. I dated one guy last fall for about two months who made it very clear that he always paid for everything. And he did...except for one ice cream date. I was suprised at how good it felt and I also felt guilty for feeling this way. Clearly from peoples responses to my posts, there are guys who think girls shouldn't expect this and if they do they're just in it for a free meal. And I don't ever want to come across that way. But regardless, he seemed to be feeling bad about this whole thing last night so I texted him and really laid it all out for him. He said he felt awful and had really read me wrong. He said he does not want me to pay for the ticket, honest to God. I really don't know how after one date he could have read me that way. Or deep down does he want me to pay? Now I feel like every time he reaches for the bill, he'd be doing it only because I complained and now he feel he has to. Man, this blows.
reservoirdog1 Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 IIB -- regardless of economics, social equality, etc., as I see it, this guy is making WAAAAAAAAAY to big a deal out of this. Two dates, and each time he's generated discomfort over the who-pays issue? I'm getting a bit of a weirdo vibe from this guy, and I wouldn't know him from Adam. He should've chosen a less expensive option for the date. Even if he's not stingy, he overanalyzes the money issue and is clearly a bit obsessive about it. Not good. I doubt you want discomfort over the money issue to creep into your future dates, and based on the story so far, it sounds like it will.
donnamaybe Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 This is what happens in this day and age during the dating process. There are many women out there who are so over-the-top feminist that the idea of a man offering to pay for them totally pisses them off. Then there are the self-entitled princesses who think they should be able to crook their little pinky and every man in their vicinity should be crawling up behind them, begging to be the one to do their bidding. There are some of us who are just regular people who take not only ourselves but others into consideration; who realize that now both men AND women are working, and often it's the woman who has the better paying job. However, if one or the other, whether it be the man or the woman, makes these expensive plans, whoever made the plans should expect to pay. But it's tough for guys to know which kind of gal they're dealing with until they get to know them a bit. I agree it was rather ignorant for him to even bring up the fact that the tickets were expensive, and that made for an awkward situation, but as you said he was messed with in the past by the princess type. He could just be a little on his guard because of that. You just have to decide whether the OTHER things about him make it worth your while to figure out who he really is and what he's really about. Good luck!
make me believe Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 This entire situation is just way too awkward and this guy sounds like a cheap douche. I'm with most of the other posters: why would he even mention the cost of the tickets? Either he was complaining and hinting around for you to offer to pay for yours, or he was trying to impress you because they were expensive. Either way... TACKY!!! I would be SO turned off. When I first started dating my ex he regularly took me to NBA games, 2nd or 3rd row. He never once mentioned the price of the tickets or implied that he wanted me to pay for mine! Even later on in the relationship when we would reminisce about our early days I once asked him "so how much did all of those basketball tickets cost, babe?" and guess what? He STILL wouldn't talk about the price with me because he knows how tacky and ridiculous that is! Anyway, this combined with his behavior on your first date is just red flag after red flag. I can't believe you even gave the guy another chance. If nothing else, his lack of basic social skills would be a huge turnoff for me.
Crazy Magnet Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 This entire situation is just way too awkward and this guy sounds like a cheap douche. I'm with most of the other posters: why would he even mention the cost of the tickets? Either he was complaining and hinting around for you to offer to pay for yours, or he was trying to impress you because they were expensive. Either way... TACKY!!! I would be SO turned off. When I first started dating my ex he regularly took me to NBA games, 2nd or 3rd row. He never once mentioned the price of the tickets or implied that he wanted me to pay for mine! Even later on in the relationship when we would reminisce about our early days I once asked him "so how much did all of those basketball tickets cost, babe?" and guess what? He STILL wouldn't talk about the price with me because he knows how tacky and ridiculous that is! Anyway, this combined with his behavior on your first date is just red flag after red flag. I can't believe you even gave the guy another chance. If nothing else, his lack of basic social skills would be a huge turnoff for me. The example ex boyfriend here is how men should act. It's rude to talk about how expensive something is with someone you hardly know. It either screams "cheap!" or "full of myself!" neither of which are particularly good traits. I think the point is that YOU feel uncomfortable, so regardless what the rest of us think you need to act on your feeling and find someone who doesn't weird you out.
Art_Critic Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 But regardless, he seemed to be feeling bad about this whole thing last night so I texted him and really laid it all out for him. He said he felt awful and had really read me wrong. Good for you IIB.. good honest communication If nothing else at the very least you are now back on the same page and as such you both know what is what going into this.. Maybe now money won't be so in the forefront of your dating and once you get to know each other some more maybe things will lighten up and you will both laugh about it..
silic0ntoad Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 Aren't we all about doing things 50/50 in this country? Look ladies, hate to break it to you, but you wanted it, you got it. You're not allowed to call a guy a cheapskate for wanting to go dutch with someone he A) Barely Knows. B) Obviously isn't sleeping with yet. C) Doesn't have a concrete idea of where it will lead. IMHO, I say good for him, sure he may have mishandled his words in a rather tedious manner, but he is giving you what you want; equality. Point is, if the guy is saying those things, he's either being honest that the game was very pricey, or he wants you to appreciate the amount of money and time he is putting into you. But, sorry to inject some unbiased logic... Back to your regularly scheduled pandering
stellaluna Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 So what about if he is paying but only after saying what he said to me? In your opinion, should he have flat out turned down my offer to pay? YES! I can't imagine asking my date if she'd like to contribute- that's such a cheap, bonehead move. This guy basically cornered you into saying you'd pay. And again, the guy asks you to a baseball game and then FEELS THE NEED TO TELL YOU HOW EXPENSIVE THE TICKETS ARE? What a dick! This guy has an issue.
Diezel Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 IceIceBaby, if you are having this much trouble after ONLY the 2nd date, just imagine what the rest of the relationship would be like. This is REGARDLESS of the economics of the two dates. A lot of people are confusing the real matter here. It's no longer about whether he paid or not, it's more now about the fact that he paid and THEN decided to let you know they were massively expensive, which brings to mind a few things: (1) He was trying to impress you with the cost - Red Flag already. This type of guy is probably the worst kind of spender. He'll be the one who will be throwing out money for the most unnecessary crap out there, but will never spend money on the most important things. (2) Trying to lay down some kind of economic law in which, the next date, you'd probably have to up the ante. Because, how can you possibly go lower than expensive baseball seats for the next date? (3) Value of the overall date = Reward for HIM. It's a covert and underlying message that signifies: I spent a lot on you, so you better put out tonight! These are the 3 essentials. Again, people can debate here on and off as to whether a man should pay and blah and blah and blah... Guess what, no one is ever going to agree on that. But what everyone here CAN agree on was that bringing up the expense he took upon HIMSELF to try to take you out was low and mightily sleazy.
Ruby Slippers Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 It's really sad, and I'm already running into these types of women at my age level (late 20's). Women have been treated poorly by previous guys, they assume they're all dicks, they have high standards in place that normal decent men can't live up to because the women are protecting themselves to try and avoid the "*******" that's been torturing them emotionally the last 10 years of their dating life. It's really sad, but doesn't mean it's not true. I've done a lot of dating, I see this everywhere. That's why the OP should stay sweet and undamaged, it'll make her more desireable by decent men. I've got news for you: you're probably going to hurt a woman or two (if you haven't already), intentionally or not, and contribute to her negative experiences with men. It's just part of being human. I believe that very few of my past negative experiences with men were intentional on anyone's part. We just screwed up because we're human. Women experience pain at the hands of men, and men experience pain at the hands of women. We all get hurt. To seek out only people who have never been hurt is to seek out partners who are inexperienced and less mature. It's the pain of life that toughens you up and teaches you how to deal with catastrophes. No one is immune to the pain of life.
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