I asked my sister, married 31 years, "How?"

[spriggig]

My point in posting this is to say that you have to do the work, you'll do it with one person, or you'll fail to do it across eight people and still be miserable. Eventually, if you're in a happy, long-term relationship, it's because you learned and did the work. You took responsibility for your own happiness and helped your SO take responsibility for theirs. Either you work on yourself or you're miserable in your relationships or you're miserable alone (if you don't work on yourself, you'll probably be miserable alone, too). That's all there is.

 

My sister is the only person I've ever met who seems to actually be happy in her marriage. My sister's response to "Are you happy in your marriage?"

 

Ron and I have been married for 31 years this past April.

 

The first few years I was happy.

The next ten years I was unhappy but undecided about why.

Five more years...

I realized I was in an abusive marriage and Ron's drinking became so bad that I decided I had to leave him. (He is an emotional abusive, not a physical abusive - he has security, abandonment, and anger issues.)

 

I told Ron I was done, I was worth more. He was broken and I was broken and I hated both of us. I do not know to this day how I could have left him.

 

Amazingly, and for reasons of his own (the timing was right), Ron heard me. Ron learned to say more than, "Yeah, I'm fine." We struggled on.

 

I was still unhappy. I was fat. I was as mean as snake spit from living with this man for so long and being forced into almost complete solitude by the forces that shape this kind of relationship. I spent a lot of time at work. I made better money, learned to ignore this mean, self-centered drunk to whom I was married.

 

When I was forty-five, I decided to fix me. I lost the physical weight of fifty plus pounds. I learned to let go of the anger I harbored. I learned to talk to women and become friends with them - to trust one or two of them with some of what I'd gone through. I worked on me for five years. I learned to accept this man and learned to love him again. The love is tempered with knowledge this time. There are boundaries.

 

When I was fifty, I told Ron I wouldn't leave him.

 

I've been through a lot with the old dog.

 

I don't fight with Ron about his drinking. I don't take crap about Ron's insecurities, his anger issues, or his "whatever" attitude. When he starts his yelling, I might walk away or I might yell right back at him. Usually, I get all "Wah! You yelled at me!" for a couple of minutes and then I fire back at him like a sailor. I can still hold my own with this old dog. I can out smart him and I can certainly out talk him. I am fair and honest and just. I'm still mean as a dragon in her rocky lair.

 

The Verdict:

Yeah, I think we are happy. Mostly. Finally. Amazingly.

After all, I married my best friend.

 

DogNDragon

[trippi1432]

My point in posting this is to say that you have to do the work, you'll do it with one person, or you'll fail to do it across eight people and still be miserable. Eventually, if you're in a happy, long-term relationship, it's because you learned and did the work. You took responsibility for your own happiness and helped your SO take responsibility for theirs. Either you work on yourself or you're miserable in your relationships or you're miserable alone (if you don't work on yourself, you'll probably be miserable alone, too). That's all there is.

 

My sister is the only person I've ever met who seems to actually be happy in her marriage. My sister's response to "Are you happy in your marriage?"

 

Great post!! I can already see so much of this in my own relationship with my ex....from my own side....I would have stuck it out...even though we were both pretty miserable.

 

Ron and I have been married for 31 years this past April.

 

The first few years I was happy.

The next ten years I was unhappy but undecided about why.

Five more years...

I realized I was in an abusive marriage and Ron's drinking became so bad that I decided I had to leave him. (He is an emotional abusive, not a physical abusive - he has security, abandonment, and anger issues.)

 

I told Ron I was done, I was worth more. He was broken and I was broken and I hated both of us. I do not know to this day how I could have left him.

 

Amazingly, and for reasons of his own (the timing was right), Ron heard me. Ron learned to say more than, "Yeah, I'm fine." We struggled on.

 

I was still unhappy. I was fat. I was as mean as snake spit from living with this man for so long and being forced into almost complete solitude by the forces that shape this kind of relationship. I spent a lot of time at work. I made better money, learned to ignore this mean, self-centered drunk to whom I was married.

 

When I was forty-five, I decided to fix me. I lost the physical weight of fifty plus pounds. I learned to let go of the anger I harbored. I learned to talk to women and become friends with them - to trust one or two of them with some of what I'd gone through. I worked on me

(What I am doing now for me!!)

for five years. I learned to accept this man and learned to love him again. The love is tempered with knowledge this time. There are boundaries. (Yes!!)

 

When I was fifty, I told Ron I wouldn't leave him.

 

I've been through a lot with the old dog.

 

I don't fight with Ron about his drinking. I don't take crap about Ron's insecurities, his anger issues, or his "whatever" attitude. When he starts his yelling, I might walk away or I might yell right back at him. Usually, I get all "Wah! You yelled at me!" for a couple of minutes and then I fire back at him like a sailor. I can still hold my own with this old dog. I can out smart him and I can certainly out talk him. I am fair and honest and just. I'm still mean as a dragon in her rocky lair.

 

(Maybe it sounds mean and spiteful....but BY GOD she has the right idea here, work on you and be happy with yourself whether in the relationship or out of it, don't take the crap, but do take the good.)

 

The Verdict:

Yeah, I think we are happy. Mostly. Finally. Amazingly.

After all, I married my best friend.

Thanks for posting this!! :o

[quankanne]

HAHAHAHAHA ... this gal figured out the secret to a lasting relationship, all right: Never give up, never give in and dish it out just as good! :laugh:

[trippi1432]

HAHAHAHAHA ... this gal figured out the secret to a lasting relationship, all right: Never give up, never give in and dish it out just as good! :laugh:

 

Hey, to each their own right? I did that for 15 years married to a blackout drunk, miserable man....and I was just as miserable in my own right. I would have probably continued on being miserable....dishing it out...etc, etc...but I got lucky, he left because I never would have.

 

Spriggg has a good point, I choose whether or not I am miserable alone....but there are many choices in that regard. 2 months to D day and I am doing the happy dance.....I have a whole new world opened up to me now and I am the one who chooses to be happy or miserable in it.

[Butterflair]

I was married 32 years, I thought things were pretty stable and I was pretty happy. We were comfortable though moving in different directions. We had survived his first affair and were on the way to the golden years, grandchildren and traveling were the fun things we did. All this changed when he got a girlfriend, not just any girl but one of my son's ex-girlfriends.

 

I could work on me (which I have) until I'm blue in the face but that won't change the fact that he is a cheater, probably always was. It snapped in me and I was done. In order to fix me and continue to be happy, I had to let him go. It hurts me that 32 yrs is gone and we didn't make it.

 

I'm happy that your sister's marriage is going good and she's happy. One thinks at that time in their life they've overcome all the hurdles but there are hurdles all down the road. Hopefully she won't hit any more.

[spriggig]

Well, there's more...

 

I replied to my sister: "I think I should marry a woman who is smarter than me."

 

Because, while I'm no slouch, my sister is smarter than I am and she is also wise and thoughtful.

 

Here's what she said to that:

 

There are statistics that say that you should. Smart women are easier to love because we eventually give huge pay back.

 

Ron and I are relatively well matched. I am smarter than he in some areas and I am somewhat better educated.

Ron is smarter than I am in some ways - he is better with spatial problems, mechanical issues, and anything involving math.

Ron is good at trouble shooting, I am better at problem solving and deciphering issues involving complex connective layering.

Ron uses a direct "beat it to death approach" and I'm analytical and use method.

 

Smart women can (and frequently do) make good mates because they can make a lot of money.

 

Smart women can hold their own in the boardroom and in the bedroom.

 

Smart women care about themselves and take care of themselves - they may have bad habits, but they don't whine, cry, and make the world sorry for them. They know how to dress to the teeth and make the world take notice.

 

Smart women often have the best sense of themselves and the better sense of the world around them.

 

Smart women have a sense of humor - one cannot live in this world without laughing at one's self and the wild world that we live in.

 

I NEVER would have made it without being able to laugh, at any time, and sometimes right in the middle of the most horrendous times of my life - at the absurdity of the messes that we create for ourselves. Ron has looked at me on occasion and wondered at this ability - I suspect it is God given or that I am insane.

 

Look for a woman that is At Least your equal.

She will take care of the rest.

Make sure she looks up to you in three key areas - it doesn't matter which three.

 

That's the end of it. She sounds proud of herself, and some might (and do) say full of herself. BUT, she really does have every right to be, she is very capable. I brought up the "marry a smart woman" thing, figuring she'd have something to say about it. She did. LOL.

[trippi1432]

Well, there's more...

 

I replied to my sister: "I think I should marry a woman who is smarter than me."

 

Because, while I'm no slouch, my sister is smarter than I am and she is also wise and thoughtful.

 

Here's what she said to that:

 

 

 

That's the end of it. She sounds proud of herself, and some might (and do) say full of herself. BUT, she really does have every right to be, she is very capable. I brought up the "marry a smart woman" thing, figuring she'd have something to say about it. She did. LOL.

 

You know, there is some wisdom in your sister's feedback...no, not pretentious at all...just a very strong woman with good insight.....and is in her marriage for the long haul.

 

I've known many successful women, including female CEO's of corporations, that have been kicked in the gut by their husband's walking out. I enjoyed reading this....thanks for posting this as well.

[Butterflair]

I like that too, thanks for sharing.

[habs53]

Hey, to each their own right? I did that for 15 years married to a blackout drunk, miserable man....and I was just as miserable in my own right. I would have probably continued on being miserable....dishing it out...etc, etc...but I got lucky, he left because I never would have.

 

Spriggg has a good point, I choose whether or not I am miserable alone....but there are many choices in that regard. 2 months to D day and I am doing the happy dance.....I have a whole new world opened up to me now and I am the one who chooses to be happy or miserable in it.

 

I will back you up on this one. Seems to me you put up with an awful lot. You stuck in there for a long time. Unfortunatley, there is wives that have a few bad years, then pack there bags and leave. There was no abuse, nothing like that. I wish there was more women like you.

[trippi1432]

I will back you up on this one. Seems to me you put up with an awful lot. You stuck in there for a long time. Unfortunatley, there is wives that have a few bad years, then pack there bags and leave. There was no abuse, nothing like that. I wish there was more women like you.

 

That's sweet, thank you Habs. :o

 

Honestly, this is how we finally start learning more about ourselves...the hard knocks of life. If we truly commit to working on ourselves, somewhere there has to be some happiness.

 

Nothing ever comes easy...it has to be learned...sometimes over and over again. What's that saying...."Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug"....I'm working on being the windshield this time around.

[SarahRose]

The sad part is that her husband doesn't care enough about her or the marriage to make the changes HE needs to make to make himself a better husband.

 

All she did was change herself so she could tolerate his miserable drunken **** better.

 

Sad really.

[Woggle]

Doesn't sound like such a happy marriage to me.

[trippi1432]

Actually, I disagree about it not being a "happy" marriage. I've seen couples who genuinely appear to be miserable with each other but love each other to death.....it's called being together and being around each other for so long.

 

While they might be able to benefit on working on some happiness, it could also change the entire dynamic of their relationship. He is her best friend, therefore she has learned how to tolerate the things she may not like. On the other hand, he doesn't want to change. It's not her job to change him, it's his job to change himself.

 

I think that the lesson here is that there is no such thing as a PERFECT marriage or a PERFECT partner. Striving for perfection is like chasing after a rainbow...you never get to the pot of Gold. While outwardly it appears miserable, she has decided to work on herself....she is not co-dependent on "Ray" helping her with that, she is doing that for herself.

[spriggig]

The sad part is that her husband doesn't care enough about her or the marriage to make the changes HE needs to make to make himself a better husband.

 

All she did was change herself so she could tolerate his miserable drunken **** better.

 

Sad really.

 

I'll defend him a bit here, he did cut way back on his drinking, which she doesn't mention. And, he did learn "[sIZE=2]to say more than, "Yeah, I'm fine.""

 

My sister would not have stayed with this man if he had not changed for the better--trust me on that. And, yes she had to change and learn too, that's sort of the point of this post.[/sIZE]

[LisaUk]

The sad part is that her husband doesn't care enough about her or the marriage to make the changes HE needs to make to make himself a better husband.

 

All she did was change herself so she could tolerate his miserable drunken **** better.

 

Sad really.

 

I disagree, I think this point of view actually is a very sweeping statement. We don't have all the info about this marriage, the guy has a disease if he is alcohlic, personally I don't think he won't change b/c he doesn't care about his wife or the marriage, for all we know he could love her to death. Things are never that black and white. We don't (or should not) marry for what a person can provide us with, or what they can be, to do so is foolish, life throws many things at us, illness, infertility, job loss, death etc. marry for the way you feel about someone, deal with the rest, that is why it is for better for worse.

 

Actually, I disagree about it not being a "happy" marriage. I've seen couples who genuinely appear to be miserable with each other but love each other to death.....it's called being together and being around each other for so long.

 

Exactly! Marry for the love, the friendship, that is commitment otherwise what is the point in marrying in the first place?

 

I think that the lesson here is that there is no such thing as a PERFECT marriage or a PERFECT partner. Striving for perfection is like chasing after a rainbow...you never get to the pot of Gold.

 

Oh Trippi, this is exactly what I tried to tell my ex when he left me, he doesn't get it and probably won't until it is too late for him. Hey ho, that's his choice and he will have to live with the consequences. We don't stop loving our children, our family, our pets b/c they do something we don't like, why should a spouse be any different? If you're unhappy with something they are doing, I think it helps to remeber that first, you married them b/c you love them, second, you are not perfect either and third TALK TO THEM, while they may not "change" there is a way to develop an understanding of how each person feels and to come to a compromise, a way to live so both are happy, essentially that is what marriage is, no marriage is 100% happy all of the time, that's impossible! It is the love that keeps you committed at the end of the day, so I guess if someone marries for what a person PROVIDES them with rather than for LOVE then they are are sorely disappointed and often (not always the case) these are the ones that walk. Most spouses want their partner to be happy b/c they love them, I know I did, yet rather than see that and work with it and give the opportunity to resolve, some walk b/c they think they can find that PERFECT person! :laugh::laugh: GOOD LUCK!

[trippi1432]

I disagree, I think this point of view actually is a very sweeping statement. We don't have all the info about this marriage, the guy has a disease if he is alcohlic, personally I don't think he won't change b/c he doesn't care about his wife or the marriage, for all we know he could love her to death. Things are never that black and white. We don't (or should not) marry for what a person can provide us with, or what they can be, to do so is foolish, life throws many things at us, illness, infertility, job loss, death etc. marry for the way you feel about someone, deal with the rest, that is why it is for better for worse.

 

I agree here with you Lisa, no one knows how their life is going to be shaped after 30 years together....you weather what life throws at you as a couple. Sometimes though, there are unhealthy things that we wish the other person could change out of love for their family....things that can be changed or managed/controlled. At least this person was willing to try and his wife saw the positive changes in him and made them for herself too.

 

The thing about the alcohol is that a person can choose to change that if they want to. It appears in this case, the BIL chose to cut back on the drinking because he does love his wife. That is admirable, others are not so lucky.

Oh Trippi, this is exactly what I tried to tell my ex when he left me, he doesn't get it and probably won't until it is too late for him. Hey ho, that's his choice and he will have to live with the consequences. We don't stop loving our children, our family, our pets b/c they do something we don't like, why should a spouse be any different? If you're unhappy with something they are doing, I think it helps to remeber that first, you married them b/c you love them, second, you are not perfect either and third TALK TO THEM, while they may not "change" there is a way to develop an understanding of how each person feels and to come to a compromise, a way to live so both are happy, essentially that is what marriage is, no marriage is 100% happy all of the time, that's impossible!

(Amen to this - I recall how many times my ex's drinking was a problem with our family life, there was nothing there in him to want to change that for us. He would infuriate me by taking our son - 3 or 4 years old - on his drinking binges with his friend while I was on a 12 hour work shift. At that time, I worked in manufacturing, I didn't have a "cushy" desk job. These were our standard hours. I got a frantic call one time from the drinking buddies wife that he had locked himself in his truck, windows rolled up, wouldn't start the truck up and was passed out.....it's was over 95 degrees outside, so it had to be well over 100 degrees in the truck. Thank God she had our son and he was not in the truck with him. Did this teach him any thing? No. Did my talking to him about it do anything? No. He laughed at me about it....Did my getting ticked off at him then do anything? NADA! Even trying to get him to go to AA while I went to Al-Anon....nothing worked until he left us and finally decided to change for his girlfriend.

He was like this before I met him, but he told me at first that he only drank every once in a while - total lie. He once fell down a flight of stairs at a party and almost bled to death before someone found him....this was years before I knew him. All of his friends called him the "Life of the Party". He actually stated that to me 15 years later when justifying his leaving the first time because he felt guilty for getting drunk and hitting his son. I will admit, that was the first time he had ever hit our son....previously it was me until I threatened to end his life. Ick....so many horrible, horrible memories it makes me want to cry!!!)

 

It is the love that keeps you committed at the end of the day, so I guess if someone marries for what a person PROVIDES them with rather than for LOVE then they are are sorely disappointed and often (not always the case) these are the ones that walk. Most spouses want their partner to be happy b/c they love them, I know I did, yet rather than see that and work with it and give the opportunity to resolve, some walk b/c they think they can find that PERFECT person! :laugh::laugh: GOOD LUCK!

 

Again, very true....my ex was more interested in what he could get rather than love. My ex walked looking for the "perfect" person who wouldn't require a prenupt before marrying them (that alone, tells me something even more about his character besides just the drinking.) In truth, looking back on the 15 years we were together I wish that I could say that there was times he tried, there were times I tried...AA, Al-anon, couple's counseling and finally marriage counseling.....in earnest, he probably did me a favor by walking. I hate to think of it that way, but I've seen him stop drinking now and I've known one of his drinking buddies to stop because he put his family first. I now know that my ex wouldn't stop or cut back because he had not respect for us as his family and setting an example for his son was not important to him at the time either.

 

Sorry for rambling.....this just dredges up so much emotion for me because it hits so close to home...honestly, I feel like I've been a fool for those 15 years and hate myself for being weak and staying in a relationship like I did, hoping he would change. My apologies for my personal ranting on the thread.

 

Lisa - Don't forget....you deserve to find happiness after what you have been through with your ex.

Edited June 27, 2010 by trippi1432
sp

[Steadfast]

spriggig, thanks for this thread. Isn't it a shame that the treasured message of it probably isn't being read by those who really need to hear it? The classic definition of preaching to the choir. Knowledge is power, and so often we must be broken before we become receptive to things like this.

 

Great posts bring great responses too:

 

 

Oh Trippi, this is exactly what I tried to tell my ex when he left me, he doesn't get it and probably won't until it is too late for him. Hey ho, that's his choice and he will have to live with the consequences. We don't stop loving our children, our family, our pets b/c they do something we don't like, why should a spouse be any different?

 

 

Our marriage (husband or wife) is supposed to be the strongest relationship of our lives. Yet, like many basic foundations of fortified morality, the relentless attacks upon it has caused people to view it with critical expectation. Rebellion, when manifested in selfishness will drain every drop of happiness from your life; leaving it to wither and die.

 

For those of us from failed relations, knowing the truth (even if we were cheated out of its full reward) is better than not knowing. Just another example of why one must let bitterness and anger go. It stunts growth.

[spriggig]

I'll also add that they have no children together. My BIL has two boys from a previous marriage. Also, they both have always had the means to comfortably support themselves apart.

 

In short, nothing held these two together but them.

 

So, it's possible. And that gives me the good kind of hope for all of us.

[WalkInThePark]

This marriage might have lasted for 31 years but it sure does not sound like 31 happy years to me. Why waste your time on someone who is an alcoholic? It's a recipe for disaster.

[2ndthymearound]

 

 

Oh Trippi, this is exactly what I tried to tell my ex when he left me, he doesn't get it and probably won't until it is too late for him. Hey ho, that's his choice and he will have to live with the consequences. We don't stop loving our children, our family, our pets b/c they do something we don't like, why should a spouse be any different? If you're unhappy with something they are doing, I think it helps to remeber that first, you married them b/c you love them, second, you are not perfect either and third TALK TO THEM, while they may not "change" there is a way to develop an understanding of how each person feels and to come to a compromise, a way to live so both are happy, essentially that is what marriage is, no marriage is 100% happy all of the time, that's impossible! It is the love that keeps you committed at the end of the day, so I guess if someone marries for what a person PROVIDES them with rather than for LOVE then they are are sorely disappointed and often (not always the case) these are the ones that walk. Most spouses want their partner to be happy b/c they love them, I know I did, yet rather than see that and work with it and give the opportunity to resolve, some walk b/c they think they can find that PERFECT person! :laugh::laugh: GOOD LUCK!

 

Best insight that I've seen on here! Thanks!!!!!

[trippi1432]

This marriage might have lasted for 31 years but it sure does not sound like 31 happy years to me. Why waste your time on someone who is an alcoholic? It's a recipe for disaster.

 

Actually, you would be surprised how many people will stay with someone who is an alcoholic....sometimes just hoping they will change. Some get it, some don't. I didn't have to stay with mine....I could have chosen to leave, but I also couldn't abandon him because I know what that feels like. Yes, most of the time it was very miserable, but (as he put it once) he wanted me to be happy so he left.

 

There's a lot that can be examined as to why....co-dependency, getting so absorbed in being an enabler....fear of being alone, or even threats (mine would threaten to move back to his home state and not see his son).

 

Some do change....in this instance, the BIL changed....in my ex's instance, he has stopped drinking with his new girlfriend (that's not to say he won't ever fall off the wagon...but that is a positive step), and I've known men that completely stopped for their families when they realized they were going to lose their wife and kids (this one man I know has been 8 years sober because of this).

 

This is not in defense of alcoholics, but if they show a positive change and you love them, they are your best friend, why would you end a 31 year marriage if both are making strides to improve the relationship?