VelveteenBunny Posted June 25, 2010 Posted June 25, 2010 I wanted to reply to the fatherless post again, but it's closed, so I started a new thread. While I admit some women do try to run dads out of their kid's lives, many single mothers WANTED the dad's to be involved, and it simply didn't happen. Some men run off when they hear the mother is pregnant. Some pay child support due to court orders, but refuse to see the kids. Some stick around for awhile and then suddenly run off on the mom and kid (or just kids if he's not with the mom) or slowly stop seeing them. And while divorces do usually limit dad's time with the kids, and might not be his choice, many dad's post divorce eventually stop seeing their kids altogether. Forming new families, to my knowledge, sometimes makes this more likely to occur. This isn't intended to be an anti-dad, anti-man post. Some men make great dads, fathers are important, and some women are bad mothers, BUT you can't blame a woman divorcing a man for him entirely dropping out of his kids lives. My dad did this years after mom divorced him, and I know who to blame- him. He had visitation, he decided to not use it. One poster said women initiate 75% of divorces and uses that to back up the assertation that women try to run dad's off. Well, not only do most of the women I know who initiated divorces NOT do it for that reason, BUT just because women divorce men more, doesn't mean it's usually the woman's fault a marriage dissolves. Think about it. A woman can initate divorce because the husband was too terrible to tolerate, or because he'd simply fallen out of love, but was holding on to the marriage. Some men who stay married don't necessarily love their wives or treat them right. One friend of mine who divorced twice had two abusive and controlling husbands. She wasn't the best with the first one because she started using revenge tactics on him when he was abusive. The second guy was totally psycho, though and far more abusive. He hosptialized her. Knocked her unconscious, broke one of her bones, and kept beating her while she lay unconscious until witnesses called for help. He also threatened to murder he. Is it her fault she divorced him? Another person I know left a man she had a child with because he beat her in front of the kid and was controlling and selfish with the child- beyond what is acceptable. Another woman I know left one of her husbands because he was an alcoholic and cheated on her, and told their kid about it. I'm not saying it's always a man's fault, but a woman initiating a divorce, doesn't automatically make it her fault.
ADF Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 Only about 11% of single parents in this country are men. Is that because the woman ran the men off? In the overwhelming majority of cases, no. In most cases, the men CHOOSE not to be part of a family. That's just a fact. Yes, 75% of divorce actions are brought by women. But divorce is not the FIRST thing unhappy women try. It the LAST thing they try. To site the fact more women than men file for divorce as "evidence" women are running men off in inane. Over half of the men in the US who owe child support fail to pay it, either at all or in large part. Men complain about getting "screwed" in divorce settlements. Well, guess what? Women get "screwed" a lot more often by men who won't support the kids they father.
Corporate Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 If these "single mothers" chose the right mate, they wouldn't be in the babymama situation.
Corporate Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 And I am betting the majority didn't come out and say, "if you ever get pregnant, not only am I going to run out on you, but I won't even support my kids, either." How many good men out there with solid family history, a college education, and a decent job will run away from his own child? Alot of women are dating thugs and players. They know it but they settle for these "men" and that's what they get, baby daddy drama.
sally4sara Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 If these "single mothers" chose the right mate, they wouldn't be in the babymama situation. You know, for every woman who chose the wrong guy, there is a guy who did the same with her. Just like the baby making part. It takes two.
sally4sara Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 How many good men out there with solid family history, a college education, and a decent job will run away from his own child? Alot of women are dating thugs and players. They know it but they settle for these "men" and that's what they get, baby daddy drama. I will agree there is a subculture that lauds a self destructive lifestyle. I cannot see why anyone would seek criminal behavior and flippant emotional interactions as a good foundation for stability. But it would be an easier problem to address if this were the reason for every single mother that ever existed. Till a man has a family, how can one see a history of being a good man and father. Its not as simple as looking for a USDA approved stamp on their ass. We could say that no one should be allowed to marry before age 27. But not everyone matures at the same rate. We could say no one should get married till they've been with someone for 5 years. But I've seen happy, lasting marriages that happened after only one year and crappy ones where they knew each other since childhood. As well, a life long marriage doesn't mean it was a happy one. My grandparents have been miserably married for 60 years; not much of an achievement in my book.
Corporate Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 Till a man has a family, how can one see a history of being a good man and father. Its not as simple as looking for a USDA approved stamp on their ass. What are the chances that a man from a stable family (not single parent family) who is educated and make a decent living (usually a non-player and maybe even on the geek side) abandons his own flesh blood and the mother of his child COMPARE to someone who came from an unstable family with no college degree and doesn't have a good job? Some women are too easy. The worse part is that many of them will choose and sleep with a player over a geek any day.
sally4sara Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 What are the chances that a man from a stable family (not single parent family) who is educated and make a decent living (usually a non-player and maybe even on the geek side) abandons his own flesh blood and the mother of his child COMPARE to someone who came from an unstable family with no college degree and doesn't have a good job? Some women are too easy. The worse part is that many of them will choose and sleep with a player over a geek any day. Well you just described my ex husband when I met him, tho we were too young when we met for either of us to have established a career at the time. You should ask him why he turned out the way he did with all the "advantages" cuz I'm the one from a single parent family and didn't go to college and I'm the one sticking by my son. Which illustrates what I'm saying; there are no guaranteed tell tale signs that you chose poorly. Its only after it blows up that you can see all the red flags you missed.
Corporate Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 Well you just described my ex husband when I met him, tho we were too young when we met for either of us to have established a career at the time. You should ask him why he turned out the way he did with all the "advantages" cuz I'm the one from a single parent family and didn't go to college and I'm the one sticking by my son. Which illustrates what I'm saying; there are no guaranteed tell tale signs that you chose poorly. Its only after it blows up that you can see all the red flags you missed. Was your ex-husband from a good home, had college degree, with a good job, and he totally ABANDONED his own kids with no visit, no child support, etc.? Highly unlikely. Even if he did/does, his parents and family would probably not allow this kind of behavior. If they did, he did not come from a good home.
sally4sara Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 Was your ex-husband from a good home, had college degree, with a good job, and he totally ABANDONED his own kids with no visit, no child support, etc.? Highly unlikely. Even if he did/does, his parents and family would probably not allow this kind of behavior. If they did, he did not come from a good home. You can believe me or not. I know now that my mistake was getting married so young. With a bit more time invested, I'd have seen the cracks in his seemingly stable veneer. He only now acts on his visitation to make waves and because his mother will do the traveling for him. The other times he said he was going to use visitation, he expected me to cover the costs while he continued to not pay child support. And his support payment was reduced to cover travel costs. When we lived closer together, he did pull a stint at co-parenting (neither of us paying the other support), but when he finally saw it wouldn't get him back with me, he lost interest in co-parenting. The one thing you were correct on is his mother disapproved of his behavior. Not his father tho. His father thought like you; that I was damaged goods for being from a broken home. His ma and him are now on speaking terms after many years of him telling her she was dead to him for not hating me. She and I have maintained a good relationship. He mended his fence with her when his last GF kicked him out and he had nowhere to go. He owes much in back child support.
Corporate Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 You can believe me or not. I know now that my mistake was getting married so young. With a bit more time invested, I'd have seen the cracks in his seemingly stable veneer. He only now acts on his visitation to make waves and because his mother will do the traveling for him. The other times he said he was going to use visitation, he expected me to cover the costs while he continued to not pay child support. And his support payment was reduced to cover travel costs. When we lived closer together, he did pull a stint at co-parenting (neither of us paying the other support), but when he finally saw it wouldn't get him back with me, he lost interest in co-parenting. The one thing you were correct on is his mother disapproved of his behavior. Not his father tho. His father thought like you; that I was damaged goods for being from a broken home. His ma and him are now on speaking terms after many years of him telling her she was dead to him for not hating me. She and I have maintained a good relationship. He mended his fence with her when his last GF kicked him out and he had nowhere to go. He owes much in back child support. First, I never said you're damaged good. Secondly, he is not from a stable family. And, it seems to me that he has/had many issues.
sally4sara Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 First, I never said you're damaged good. Secondly, he is not from a stable family. And, it seems to me that he has/had many issues. Ah but all the things you listed as indicators of good character where there.... When we first met, his folks were still together, they were very involved in their two kids' lives, holding a job while in school, college education was expected and afforded; the American Portrait deal. Nothing indicated that his family was not stable. His dad's parents were still together. His mom's parents were together till one of them died. They were very careful about how they were perceived by outsiders. And when we first met, his brother had just graduated and a few months after, his father took a transfer several states away so his folks moved. They were able to keep up the front with me easily from a distance. Right before we married, he did some celebratory drinking after 6 months of being dry to assure me he was only a social drinker. After marriage, he went full tilt into drinking, drugging and getting fired all the time for not showing up, or showing up high and smelling of beer.
Corporate Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 (edited) Right before we married, he did some celebratory drinking after 6 months of being dry to assure me he was only a social drinker. After marriage, he went full tilt into drinking, drugging and getting fired all the time for not showing up, or showing up high and smelling of beer. I only listed three BASIC requirements and he didn't even meet them all. The requirements were: 1) Come from stable family; 2) College educated or received technical training; 3) Stable job. He did not meet at least one of the requirements. For the record, I would like to add a 4th basic requirement: 4) No "behavior/addiction problems" such as drugs, drinking, gambling, and sleeping around. Ladies, if you stick to those 4 requirements, your risk of having to be a single parent or dealing with baby daddy dramas would significantly decrease. Period. Edited June 26, 2010 by Corporate
sally4sara Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 I only listed three BASIC requirements and he didn't even meet them all. The requirements were: 1) Come from stable family; 2) College educated or received technical training; 3) Stable job. He did not meet at least one of the requirements. For the record, I would like to add a 4th basic requirement: 4) No "behavior/addiction problems" such as drugs, drinking, gambling, and sleeping around. Ladies, if you stick to those 4 requirements, your risk of having to be a single parent or dealing with baby daddy dramas would significantly decrease. Period. You're not hearing what I'm telling you. He did meet all of those things on the surface. But you cannot pick out a stable family without being in it to know where the dysfunction lurks. As an outsider, you can only see that the family is intact. He had not had a history of drugs and alcohol for the same reason he did not have a fully established career; we were too young for that. Hell, I had a longer and harder history of partying than he did at that point. I was the delinquent runaway. I was the one with no long term employment history; I always had a job, but never for longer than a handful of months. I did not go to college nor have both of my parents still married. By all your standards, it makes no sense that I'm the one who is a stable and a responsible parent and he is not. He was in college, had a job of many years, was not a player. When we met, we both partied a little as most people in our age group normally do. I had one little reservation due to having never known a real alcoholic. He was talking about marriage and I said I'd need to know he could not drink at all. So he didn't for the rest of the time we dated before marriage with the exception of the small stag party I set up for him. My one mistake was acquiescing to his rush, rush pace in jumping into marriage. I doubt he could have kept up the front another year. Another example would be my current sister-in-law. All the good indicators are there, but it just went horribly awry somewhere for her. It is only NOW that I've been with her brother for 6 years, that I can see how and why.
Corporate Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 Btw, a college degree should mean nothing. All of the people involved in this situation have degrees. I've known people who never attended college who are married and dedicated to their kids. True, neither does having a stable family upbringing. But, the combination of my 4 creterias, will significantly decrease the chances of choosing the wrong guy.
cira09 Posted June 29, 2010 Posted June 29, 2010 This is an interesting thread. I haven't read through all of the posts but I def have an opinion. I myself, am a single mom who left an abusive partner. Conceiving my child, was NOT consentual. I hear a lot of comments that "women need to choose their mate more wisely" or along these lines. When you are in an abusive relationship, and you don't have sex, the abuse gets worse. Unfortunately, you are forced to do manythings that you don't want to do. Having a child, gave me the strength to leave my abuser, a strength that I couldn't find within myself before I was pregnant. I do not regret anything, as conceiving my son, saved me. His dad is kind of in the picture (he is a drug addict thus has only supervised visits and comes to only 50% of them). He does not pay child support - he is 15 months in arriers - but I would never stop him from seeing his son. My son should know him, whether or not he will like him, only time will tell! I disagree STRONGLY with the notion that single moms want to "run the dads off". If you, like me, are a single mom, you know that when your child visits his dad, that is your only time to clean your house, or watch a movie or just relax. Being a single mom is the single hardest thing I have ever done. But, when I watch my little man sleep, or hear him laugh, or watch him grow, my heart melts and it is all worth while! I just had to share my opinion on this one, I am being cyberstalked by my sons dad, so I don't poste often, but I keep my eyes open on the threads on this site and this one caught my attentinon.
cira09 Posted June 29, 2010 Posted June 29, 2010 oh, I also wanted to add, that my ex came from a fairly stable home. His mom and sisters all have good jobs and college degrees: BUT his dad was abusive. HIs mom left him when my ex was 5 years old...the circle of abuse will end with him though
Woggle Posted June 29, 2010 Posted June 29, 2010 I have no beef with single mothers raising children in circumstances like you describe. My issue is not with individual women but with the feminist mentality that fathers are just a disposable extra at best.
sb129 Posted June 29, 2010 Posted June 29, 2010 What are the chances that a man from a stable family (not single parent family) who is educated and make a decent living (usually a non-player and maybe even on the geek side) abandons his own flesh blood and the mother of his child COMPARE to someone who came from an unstable family with no college degree and doesn't have a good job? Some women are too easy. The worse part is that many of them will choose and sleep with a player over a geek any day. What world are you living in? Women are too easy? What about the guys they sleep with? Since when is sex one sided? I know someone whose husband fit all of your criteria, and he was having an affair while she was pregnant with their first child. He is now living with the OW and his W is a single mother....
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