Woggle Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 I disagree. When a man refuses to marry his long-term SO, he sends her a clear message: he wants an easy out. No matter how long they are together, no matter how many years of HER life she invests in the man, he expects to be able to walk away at any time, owing nothing and never having to look back. How can that not make a woman feel insecure? Then she knows how the walkway wife epidemic makes men feel. Women are the ones who are driving the high divorce so for the most part they don't have much reason to feel insecure.
califnan Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 Then she knows how the walkway wife epidemic makes men feel. Women are the ones who are driving the high divorce so for the most part they don't have much reason to feel insecure. ------------------- I believe men are the ones walking away from marriages because of outside interest (affairs) ..
Woggle Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 ------------------- I believe men are the ones walking away from marriages because of outside interest (affairs) .. The 75% stats speak for themselves. A man never knows if he will come home any day and get the I lov eyou but I am not in love with you speech.
Woggle Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 What "walkaway wife epidemic" are you talking about? I think you made that up. . Just look at this forum.
LittleTiger Posted June 26, 2010 Posted June 26, 2010 I married to make a public, legal commitment to a life partner. Children or no, honeymoon stage or no, our marriage says "we are in this together". I'm so grateful to have my partner, through good times and bad. He makes the bad times liveable, and the good times amazing The joys and doubled, and the sorrows halved That's it in a nutshell xxoo. Beautifully put. My divorce will be final in about 4 weeks (his choice to end the marriage, not mine) and when I get married again it will be for the exact same reasons. I loved my husband and I loved being married to him. I loved having a partner to share my life with. I loved having a piece of paper that said we were a 'team' and I loved the fact that wearing a ring on my finger told the whole world we loved each other and we belonged together. Romantic idealism perhaps, but being married made our relationship special. We were together for fourteen years. I have no regrets about the time we spent together or that we chose to get married. I will do it all again when the time is right - no hesitation.
GreenBamboo Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 (edited) I loved having a piece of paper that said we were a 'team' and I loved the fact that wearing a ring on my finger told the whole world we loved each other and we belonged together. Whether you are a 'team' or not, you know from the dynamic of your relationship, not from the paper. I believe in the last stage of your marriage before divorce, you are not a team, or a team to resolve the marriage. I believe marriage kills the love of relationship. After marriage, people tend to take their partner too granted and don't put much effort to improve themselves/please the other, thus kills the love. Edited June 27, 2010 by GreenBamboo
xxoo Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 I believe marriage kills the love of relationship. After marriage, people tend to take their partner too granted and don't put much effort to improve themselves/please the other, thus kills the love. This comes back to why people marry, I believe. If you marry as an end goal ("I'm married. Success! Now I'm done.") this may be true. If you marry as a beginning of a life together, then you go on and LIVE life together. You strive for higher personal goals, with the support of your committed partner. You are interdependent in a way that makes it unlikely you'll take each other for granted.
califnan Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 If two people (man and woman) live together merely as 'partners' they are just playing 'let's pretend' .. Unless you do the actual Marriage .. and saying your marriage vows to each other, under God .. there is no reverance with the union.
TaraMaiden Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 If two people (man and woman) ..... I love the distinction. here we go. Marriage is only for opposite sex partners. And this is why marriage is outdated as a concept. Because things are not what they used to be. If marriage really does mean embracing somebody in every true, honourable, valid and blessed way marriage intends - there should be no bar, based on gender. Unless you do the actual Marriage .. and saying your marriage vows to each other, under God .. there is no reverance with the union. This is utter crap when you realise that God did not originate marriage, but the Church hijacked it. To say that God is an essential, vital, pivotal and central tenet of a marriage is absolute baloney. Doesn't wash, does it, when you consider that adultery is committed more by people married in church. Besides, as you yourself are divorced, it kind of makes a mockery of the whole thing. Did God and the church divorce you? Of course not. Which just shows that if he's not needed at the end, he is largely redundant and utterly pointless at the beginning.
allina Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 Unless you do the actual Marriage .. and saying your marriage vows to each other, under God .. there is no reverance with the union. Your god has no place in my life and marriage. Also, many people marry under completely different religious beliefs than you have. Are you saying that all marriages that aren't Christian aren't real or honorable??
califnan Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 Your god has no place in my life and marriage. Also, many people marry under completely different religious beliefs than you have. Are you saying that all marriages that aren't Christian aren't real or honorable?? ------------------------- Of course not Allina.. I am saying Get Married.. This 'partners' living together as man and wife - is not going to fly ..
califnan Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 I love the distinction. here we go. Marriage is only for opposite sex partners. And this is why marriage is outdated as a concept. Because things are not what they used to be. If marriage really does mean embracing somebody in every true, honourable, valid and blessed way marriage intends - there should be no bar, based on gender. This is utter crap when you realise that God did not originate marriage, but the Church hijacked it. To say that God is an essential, vital, pivotal and central tenet of a marriage is absolute baloney. Doesn't wash, does it, when you consider that adultery is committed more by people married in church. Besides, as you yourself are divorced, it kind of makes a mockery of the whole thing. Did God and the church divorce you? Of course not. Which just shows that if he's not needed at the end, he is largely redundant and utterly pointless at the beginning. -------------------- God created marriage: Between man and woman ..
TaraMaiden Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 No. He. DIDN'T. Marriage existed a long time before it was considered a concept of religious interest. Marriage was a contractual and businesslike venture, and existed in countries that did not recognise God as a deity of any noteworthy substance. marriage existed in ancient Rome, before Christianity became a world religion, and the Egyptians practised marriage long before Moses appeared on the scene. God had nothing whatsoever to do with marriage, until church elders crowbarred him in at some point. Califnan, you might be blinkered, but please, don't be ignorant of common history as well....
allina Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 ------------------------- Of course not Allina.. I am saying Get Married.. This 'partners' living together as man and wife - is not going to fly .. Well, it is going to fly for some people. And sadly, as long as people like you exist it will have to fly for some couples Like loving same sex couples who would love nothing more than to honor each other and celebrate their love with marriage -------------------- God created marriage: Between man and woman .. Wrong. Man created marriage and man created god.
califnan Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 No. He. DIDN'T. Marriage existed a long time before it was considered a concept of religious interest. Marriage was a contractual and businesslike venture, and existed in countries that did not recognise God as a deity of any noteworthy substance. marriage existed in ancient Rome, before Christianity became a world religion, and the Egyptians practised marriage long before Moses appeared on the scene. God had nothing whatsoever to do with marriage, until church elders crowbarred him in at some point. Califnan, you might be blinkered, but please, don't be ignorant of common history as well.... -------------------- God (our Creator) Created Marriage between man and woman ..
califnan Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 Well, it is going to fly for some people. And sadly, as long as people like you exist it will have to fly for some couples Like loving same sex couples who would love nothing more than to honor each other and celebrate their love with marriage Wrong. Man created marriage and man created god. ------------------ Not.
TaraMaiden Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 Well there you go, allina. A crushingly convincing argument if ever I heard one....
TaraMaiden Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 It's God's way of telling us he made a big mistake. BIG. HUGE! Oops.
Woggle Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 I have nothing against people of faith but religion has nothing to do with marital success. One of the happiest and longest lasting marriages I have seen is between two atheists. It is true about liberal states having the lowest divorce rates. Massachussets which is the first state to legalize gay marriage has the lowest divorce rate in the nation.
allina Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 Well there you go, allina. A crushingly convincing argument if ever I heard one.... I know I've pointed this out to you before, but apparently it didn't sink in, so here it is again. Self-described evangical christians have HIGHER rates of divorce than self-described atheists. How do explain that? Conservative states with large evangelical populations have higher rates of divorce, teen pregnacy and out-of-wedlock births than liberal states with low rates of religious participation. How do you explain that? Self-described evangelical christians also can't realistically explain a thing.
Woggle Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 Bible thumpers can't stand themselves anymore than anybody else can stand them so I imagine it is hard living with one.
LittleTiger Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 Whether you are a 'team' or not, you know from the dynamic of your relationship, not from the paper. I believe in the last stage of your marriage before divorce, you are not a team, or a team to resolve the marriage. I believe marriage kills the love of relationship. After marriage, people tend to take their partner too granted and don't put much effort to improve themselves/please the other, thus kills the love. I didn't mean that the paper actually made us a team, I meant it was a symbol of how we felt about each other and our relationship, just like the wedding ring. A bit like a football team and its supporters all wearing the same shirt. It says 'we're on the same side', 'we want the same things'. I admit I'm not the best team player in the world but when it came to my husband that was a whole different ball game. I felt that we belonged together and I wanted him and the rest of the world to know it. Our marriage meant something to both of us. I agree that in the last stage of a marriage the team has broken down and that's why the marriage ends. However, in our case, the marriage itself had absolutely nothing to do with killing our love for each other or our relationship. We married 4 years after getting together (22 years after we met) and stayed married for nearly 10 years afterwards. Nothing really changed after we said 'I do', except that we felt more closely bonded somehow. It was 'us', not the marriage that was the issue. I believe the relationship would have broken down when it did, regardless of whether we were married or not and it had nothing to do with taking each other for granted - all relationship break ups are different and nothing is that simple. My stbxh and I are still friends and we do still love each other albeit in a different way. So our marriage didn't 'kill' anything.
LittleTiger Posted June 27, 2010 Posted June 27, 2010 Just to add to the religious argument and it's irrelevance in marriage - my parents have been (as far as I'm aware) happily married for nearly 50 years and neither of them believes in God - or if they do they keep their beliefs very well hidden!
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