The argument for marriage

[xxoo]

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I stand by my post of answering to a higher being: God the creator .. as foundation for marriage/life.

 

Weren't you divorced???

 

You can stand by it, but the reality is that Christian marriages do not fare better than non, overall. So your jab at allina was unfounded.

[califnan]

Weren't you divorced???

 

You can stand by it, but the reality is that Christian marriages do not fare better than non, overall. So your jab at allina was unfounded.

 

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Not a jab.

 

Yes divorced.. Marriage: no foundation.

[Woggle]

I do believe that many women want the nice wedding day more than they want to work on a marriage and build a life with a man. Once they have their princess day he is chopped liver.

[silktricks]

I am commited to her as long as she treats me well but I know that the piece of paper in reality means nothing.

 

Marriages are made of people so it makes sense that they are dying because of people.

 

It's not the paper, it's the relationship and the commitment that marriage means.

[Woggle]

mariage is between one man and one woman, no sick homo mariaeges

 

It's a shame that straight people treat marriage like it is nothing while gays fight tooth and nail to be a part of it. All the damage to marriage has been at the hands of heterosexuals.

[Woggle]

It's not the paper, it's the relationship and the commitment that marriage means.

 

You can have that without legal marriage. In many ways removing the courts and the lawyers might just help marriage.

[SummerLady]

I am happily married but I very much believe marriage is a dying concept that needs to be put out of it's misery. Either truly bring it back to life or put it out of it's misery. What we have today is a mockery of it.

 

I only got married because my wife wanted to and she means a lot to me. It is a gift to her but I can take or or leave the piece of paper.

 

This guy just sounds like one of those men that dotes on his wife while she is out betraying him on every level and then when she drops the bomb sheds all dignity trying to hold it together. I am starting to dislike these types more than the worse misandrists.

 

I see where Woggle is coming from. I am over the, "Get married, dog and pony show part." My thoughts on marriage have changed drastically since being divorced. I am in a great relationship now and feel more loved and connected now to my SO that I ever did to my exhusband. Do I need a piece of paper to substantiate it, NO. In fact we have talked about getting married and if we do were not doing the whole show for everyone. Its about me and him and we will do it privately and without an audience. Let's face facts women are pretty much brain washed from a young age to have this Grand Wedding. We all know people, men and women that got married to get married. It had nothing to do with the relationship and more to do with the status that they so desired. Some to make their parents happy, some didn't want to be alone, some for financial reasons. How many for love? I say not many. I am sure some of these people have the utmost best intentions but they are not seeing the clear picture of their true motivations. Marriage is not a cure all. It never is and never will be. Maybe we expect too much from marriage itself?? It does not transform people or make you a better person in society. It doesn't change the person you married. Its just harder now to get away from them if you want to leave. I think bad choices and unrealistic expectations have given marriage a bad name. Its enough to make anyone think twice.

[Stung]

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No religious (God) foundation .. see you later on the seeking advice/condolence threads..

 

 

My atheist parents have been happily married for forty years as of last spring. My husband's atheist and agnostic respectively parents were happily married for thirty-five years until my mother-in-law was widowed.

My atheist marriage is humming along quite nicely so far as well.

 

I'm glad you feel God has served you well in your own marriage, if in fact you do feel that way--but religion is not necessary for everyone, nor is your judgment.

[Stung]

 

... I like being married to my best friend and lover.

 

 

Me too!

[somedude81]

Marriages should be 7 year contracts with the option to renewal.

 

If the one or both partners decide not to renew, then the partnership is dissolved. Alimony laws will obviously have to be reworked. No way I'm going to give up half my assets every time I'd get a new wife.

[califnan]

My atheist parents have been happily married for forty years as of last spring. My husband's atheist and agnostic respectively parents were happily married for thirty-five years until my mother-in-law was widowed.

My atheist marriage is humming along quite nicely so far as well.

 

I'm glad you feel God has served you well in your own marriage, if in fact you do feel that way--but religion is not necessary for everyone, nor is your judgment.

 

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My parent's atheist rocky marrage (with infidelity) survived only because of money .. coupled with the fact that there wasn't the high divorce rate with that generation of my parents and in-laws.

 

My 22 yr marriage failed because it didn't have God in it.. no foundation ..

[DaisyLeigh]

Those who choose to live together, or those who have no choice but to live together (gay relationships) need to get their legal ducks in a row. Advance directives, wills, etc, will help protect you and your partner.

 

If you are not legally married, and your partner dies and you have no document to prove the partner's desires, the laws of the state will kick in, meaning their next of kin will be deciding everything about their estate, not you.

 

If your partner gets sick and is hospitalized, without a power of attorney or other documentation, the partner's family can have you banned from the room.

 

It happens. Just protect yourself legally.

[Woggle]

It's his fault for entering this marriage. He knows what she is about and he still chooses to marry her so he is no victim.

 

I don't know about the seven year renewal but in a no fault divorce there should be alimony and assets should be divided fairly and equally. If it is not then an equal division with both parties going their seperate ways is the fairest option.

[somedude81]

I should probably start a new thread but I'll wait and see.

 

In today's society, there is no such thing as 'till death do us part. Marriages now have a 52% chance of ending. That's ridiculous. By nature humans are not a 100% monogamous species. We do not mate for life. The only reason marriage is the way it is now is because of religion.

 

Divorce is very messy, and usually the man is the big loser. If marriage was contractual, with stiff penalties for breaching that contract, divorce would basically be a thing of the past.

 

Cheating would be deemed a breach of contract.

 

The current alimony system is a joke and needs to be completely reworked.

[aerogurl87]

Well I believe in marriage, and I want t get married one day. But with that said, I believe most people get married for the wrong reasons today, and some people may get mad at me for what I'm about to say, but here goes.

 

Marriage cannot survive on love alone. I'm sorry, but my parents have been married for almost 26 years and yes they love each other, but they married for more than love. They had similar goals in what they married for and they've been accomplishing those goals together for the past two and a half decades. Lots of people today get married because "oh this person gives me butterflies" etc. It's like buying a car because it's pretty but not looking under the hood for more info. Once the newness wears off, people get bored and want that "spark" (read: euphoric high) again. So what do they do? They move on to what they believe are greener pastures, until the newness wears off again. No sense of commitment or loyalty whatsoever. Plus we live in a world where people feel entitled to things. They feel entitled to a good husband/wife but don't want to put in the effort to be a good spouse. Add all those things together and you have the recipe for a high divorce rate.

[califnan]

I have to agree with you on this one.

 

I know someone who is engaged to a woman who got pregnant the first month they were dating. He instantly moved her into his house, gave her a vehicle and has supported her and the kids soley (she doesn't work at all and will be the first to tell you she doesn't plan to again). He legally adopted her first child. They have by all rights been a family for a couple/few years now.

 

Even though they can't afford it she still has to have her wedding with the big dress and the fancy place, etc. He is of course, footing the bill for this because her parents already paid for her first wedding! It truly saddened me when he was working his tail off (he'd been through a layoff that got them very behind in their bills) to keep his house out of foreclosure and she was complaining to his entire family that he couldn't afford to buy her the wedding she "really" wanted. I want to ask her so bad "so what exactly are you bringing to the table in this relationship?"

 

I'm sad that this woman is going to become a part of my family

 

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I am sorry SIT .. He has made it about love and committment and she is making it about materialism .. And unfortuneatly not an unusual story these days ..

[Woggle]

My boss married a woman like this and now he is miserable and stuck in a gated community that he hates with a huge mortgage. They used to have one of those gorgeous houses on the beach that I mentioned in the other thread but she wanted to live in a gate community and now they are up to thier eyeballs in debt and she shows zero affection towards him. What a wonderful life he has.

[TeaLeaves04]

Let's not be too hard on people.

 

A high divorce rate is the price we pay for living in a free society. Look at societies where the divorce rate is low, and you'll find they have a few things in common. For example:

 

1) Women have no rights. 75% of all divorce actions in the US are brought by women. Are women in, say, rural Pakistan more content in their marriages than American women? I doubt it. They just don't have as many legal rights.

 

2) Marriages are arranged. People in arranged marriages don't need to "love" their partners. No one cares if they're happy in their marriages or not. Each partner simply has a role to play, and he or she plays it. The marriage relationship is purely functional.

 

3) Divorced people--especially women and children--suffer horrible social stigma and discrimination. This was even true in the US not so long ago. A college teacher of mine in his 70s who grew up in rural Texas said there was one kid in his town whose parents were divorced. Kids were often forbidden to visit his house, because their parents viewed his mother as a fallen woman.

 

If we're going to be free to choose our own mates, if we expect our mates to treat us well and make us happy, we're going to have to accept a high rate of marriage failure. It comes with the territory.

 

Great post! It drives me nuts when friends from Hindu or Muslim countries point out the divorce rate in the U.S. The divorce rates are low in these countries for exactly the reasons you cited, not because everyone is basking in marital bliss!

Edited June 26, 2010 by TeaLeaves04

[GreenBamboo]

I disagree. When a man refuses to marry his long-term SO, he sends her a clear message: he wants an easy out.

 

No matter how long they are together, no matter how many years of HER life she invests in the man, he expects to be able to walk away at any time, owing nothing and never having to look back. How can that not make a woman feel insecure?

 

I am a woman.

 

The same for man and woman. When a man wants out, he will be out easy or not. When a woman doesn't want the man an easy out, is that the definition of 'control'?

 

I don't quite understand the 'investment of a woman's life to a man'. If not for that man, the woman will still pass that life/time, right? Doesn't she enjoy the time that she is with the man while it lasts?

[EnigmaXOXO]

That is a perk ONLY available to married couples. Co-habitating people, same-sex couples cannot cliam that benefit no matter how long they've been together.

 

Not true.

 

My partner and I own joint property with legal right of “survivorship.” As simple as visiting a real-estate attorney and signing a few legal documents. BECAUSE we’re not married, neither of us are responsible for the other’s dept in the event of death, nor will either of us lose the roof over our head.

 

This is not intended to debunk whatever benefits others feel they gain through legal/sacramental marriage aside from the spiritual or emotional… just wanted to correct some of the misinformation so often posted on these boards as ‘fact’.

 

Married or not, to each his own. And although my partner and I don’t believe that marriage is the Holy Grail of love and commitment… we certainly respect, honor and celebrate that union for others who do. Sadly it seems, more so than most married folks these days do!!

[quankanne]

In today's society, there is no such thing as 'till death do us part.

 

that's because couples go into it with the idea of divorce being an option; when that kind of mindset is there, of course it's going to fail ... all you have to do is come up with whatever reason you need to escape!

 

think about it: Couples from our grandparents' – or even our parents' – generation went into it knowing that they had to work hard at being married because there was no escape clause. Granted it wasn't such a good thing because of the number of abusive relationships, but on the other hand, people worked harder at it because they understood marriage was something you worked at. Now, it's taken the place of dating ... meet someone, fall in love, plan a huge wedding with all the stops, actually get to know the person, then file for divorce because you don't like what you've discovered. You know, stuff that should have been figured out during the courtship period.

 

suggested 7-year renewal of marriage? Bad idea, because that's about the time a couple gets past the bright-eyed honeymoon stage and one partner (or both) has it in their head that there's something better out there for them. No one would remain married with that kind of option.

[somedude81]

Divorce has always been an option, ever since Henry VIII got one in 1525.

 

My parents got divorced when I was three years old. My maternal grandparents divorced when before I was born. My paternal grandfather died shortly after my birth.

 

Unless somebody is in a restrictive religion, there has always been an escape clause.

 

Bad idea, because that's about the time a couple gets past the bright-eyed honeymoon stage and one partner (or both) has it in their head that there's something better out there for them. No one would remain married with that kind of option.

Exactly. Thanks for proving my point

 

Once the "bright-eyed honeymoon stage" is over why should people stick it out? For what reason?

 

Please think of something better reason than, "for the children." Because obviously that's not a good enough reason to stay together.

[aerogurl87]

 

Once the "bright-eyed honeymoon stage" is over why should people stick it out? For what reason?

 

Please think of something better reason than, "for the children." Because obviously that's not a good enough reason to stay together.

 

This is why I said people should get married for more than "love" aka crazy hormones. You should stick together because you have similar goals and values in life. If you don't have a relationship that's based on more than "love" then it's not going to work long term. I loved my ex boyfriend, but love wasn't enough for me to give up everything I knew to move to be with him. And it certainly wouldn't have been enough to marry him. So love isn't enough, common values, goals, and interests need to be there also to make a marriage actually work.

[xxoo]

Divorce has always been an option, ever since Henry VIII got one in 1525.

 

My parents got divorced when I was three years old. My maternal grandparents divorced when before I was born. My paternal grandfather died shortly after my birth.

 

Unless somebody is in a restrictive religion, there has always been an escape clause.

 

There are not always equal options for a man or a woman to leave a marriage, depending on time and culture. Only in the past 40 years or so have women in the US had opportunity to earn enough to support themselves and their children after leaving, for example. The average woman in other cultures may still not have that capability. That doesn't mean that divorce is not possible or legal, but that it can be prohibitively difficult to manage.

 

 

Exactly. Thanks for proving my point

 

Once the "bright-eyed honeymoon stage" is over why should people stick it out? For what reason?

 

Please think of something better reason than, "for the children." Because obviously that's not a good enough reason to stay together.

 

I married to make a public, legal commitment to a life partner. Children or no, honeymoon stage or no, our marriage says "we are in this together".

 

I'm so grateful to have my partner, through good times and bad. He makes the bad times liveable, and the good times amazing The joys and doubled, and the sorrows halved

[EnigmaXOXO]

No matter how long they are together, no matter how many years of HER life she invests in the man, he expects to be able to walk away at any time, owing nothing and never having to look back. How can that not make a woman feel insecure?

 

Why suggest that those insecurities are only inherent to “women” (???)

 

Whether someone feels secure enough with the status of their relationship (or with their relationship partner) has more to do with the individual and the dynamics of that relationship rather than their particular gender.

 

For example, as a female I feel more secure that my partner of nine years is with me because he wants to be rather than out of any sense of duty or obligation. And vice versa. The idea that he would suffer no financial or life-altering consequences should either of us find reason enough to end our relationship goes a long way in eliminating a lot of the fears that often go along with legal marriage and divorce… not to mention all the ridiculous excuses people use to mistreat and betray their spouses rather than doing them the kindness of leaving. Sort of removes the ol’ “ball-n-chain” stereotypes as well as eliminating any reason to feel “stuck” or “trapped” in a relationship void of mutual respect and love. It can also go a long way in keeping someone from taking their partner and their relationship too much for granted.

 

Remove all of that ‘stuff’, and what you’re left with the most basic and important reason why two people should choose to share their lives together in the first place… LOVE.

 

That’s what marriage is supposed to represent, regardless of all the other silly reasons why people do it. When two people choose to celebrate that love in front of others by actually honoring and respecting their union, then it’s a wonderful thing to witness. It’s those who’ve forgotten what marriage (or love) is supposed to be about, and go about the business of crapping all over each other, that scares the bajeezus out of everyone else.